XP to Windows 8 Upgrade

On 03/07/2014 02:09 AM, David Kaye wrote:
"Roderick Stewart" wrote

My suggestion to an XP user would be to try Linux Mint first. It's
free, so there's nothing to lose by trying it.

These are end users not hobbyist geeks. I like Linux, but it's not ready
for prime time.






Yes. I've been using Linux as my main OS for over five years and have 14
years total experience...but I rarely suggest others use it.

It does a good job for me and is not difficult to use, but let's face it...
it's different from Windows and most of the people I know would get very
uncomfortable if anything on their familiar computer would change.


Also: The real world uses Windows applications and ...just for
example...if someone uses their machine mainly for Photoshop it will not
be available for Linux.



OTOH: I have set up several Internet Appliance machines using Linux.
Some of them have been running for as long as three years without the
need for operating system maintenance* and have remained trouble free.

The users had not been given any instructions on what to do and no one
has had any problems. After all...Firefox on Linux is the same as
Firefox on Windows.



* Once or twice a year I've come in and deleted Windows "exe" files I've
found on the desktop.

On Fri, 7 Mar 2014 00:09:16 -0800, "David Kaye"
wrote:

"Roderick Stewart" wrote

My suggestion to an XP user would be to try Linux Mint first. It's
free, so there's nothing to lose by trying it.

These are end users not hobbyist geeks. I like Linux, but it's not ready
for prime time.

I'm sure that depends on the particular end user, some of whom are
intelligent enough to put a disk in a drive and follow instructions,
which is no more than they'd have to do to install a program
application on an existing operating system.

I did suggest trying it *first*, because if we are talking about an
old XP machine that would otherwise have to be discarded, then there
really isn't anything to lose by giving it a try.

If you've never installed an operating system before, once you've
brought an old machine back to life by installing Ubuntu or Mint all
by yourself, you may be pleasantly surprised by how easy it is, and if
it's really not for you, then you're no worse off than you were
before, and you've learnt something.

Rod.

On 03/07/2014 06:01 AM, Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Fri, 7 Mar 2014 00:09:16 -0800, "David Kaye"
wrote:

"Roderick Stewart" wrote

My suggestion to an XP user would be to try Linux Mint first. It's
free, so there's nothing to lose by trying it.

These are end users not hobbyist geeks. I like Linux, but it's not ready
for prime time.

I'm sure that depends on the particular end user, some of whom are
intelligent enough to put a disk in a drive and follow instructions,
which is no more than they'd have to do to install a program
application on an existing operating system.

I did suggest trying it *first*, because if we are talking about an
old XP machine that would otherwise have to be discarded, then there
really isn't anything to lose by giving it a try.

If you've never installed an operating system before, once you've
brought an old machine back to life by installing Ubuntu or Mint all
by yourself, you may be pleasantly surprised by how easy it is, and if
it's really not for you, then you're no worse off than you were
before, and you've learnt something.

Rod.




Installing Linux is pretty easy. Using Linux is pretty easy.

The problem is often in the little details such as exactly how the
different file mangers work etc.

On 3/7/2014 9:15 AM, philo wrote:
On 03/07/2014 06:01 AM, Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Fri, 7 Mar 2014 00:09:16 -0800, "David Kaye"
wrote:

"Roderick Stewart" wrote

My suggestion to an XP user would be to try Linux Mint first. It's
free, so there's nothing to lose by trying it.

These are end users not hobbyist geeks. I like Linux, but it's not
ready
for prime time.

I'm sure that depends on the particular end user, some of whom are
intelligent enough to put a disk in a drive and follow instructions,
which is no more than they'd have to do to install a program
application on an existing operating system.

I did suggest trying it *first*, because if we are talking about an
old XP machine that would otherwise have to be discarded, then there
really isn't anything to lose by giving it a try.

If you've never installed an operating system before, once you've
brought an old machine back to life by installing Ubuntu or Mint all
by yourself, you may be pleasantly surprised by how easy it is, and if
it's really not for you, then you're no worse off than you were
before, and you've learnt something.

Rod.




Installing Linux is pretty easy. Using Linux is pretty easy.

The problem is often in the little details such as exactly how the
different file mangers work etc.

To me, the major problem in an ops system "upgrade" is preserving
applications. With the earlier versions of windows, this was a
relatively minor problem. Now, it's a much bigger one.
Secondary problems are such things as drivers, particularly with
laptops. Industry obviously had an ulterior motive in making a seamless
transfer to a new ops system or new hardware and ops system difficult.
(Oh, we don't support that version anymore, so the authentication server
no loner functions. Or, buy a newer version, the old install process
will not work with OPS version X.)

On 03/08/2014 02:15 PM, charlie wrote:
X




Installing Linux is pretty easy. Using Linux is pretty easy.

The problem is often in the little details such as exactly how the
different file mangers work etc.

To me, the major problem in an ops system "upgrade" is preserving
applications. With the earlier versions of windows, this was a
relatively minor problem. Now, it's a much bigger one.
Secondary problems are such things as drivers, particularly with
laptops. Industry obviously had an ulterior motive in making a seamless
transfer to a new ops system or new hardware and ops system difficult.
(Oh, we don't support that version anymore, so the authentication server
no loner functions. Or, buy a newer version, the old install process
will not work with OPS version X.)



I think the question of upgrading XP directly to Win7 is a moot point.

Over the years I have tried to upgrade operating systems and the last
time I got constantly good results was upgrading Win95 to Win98.


There are just too many things that go wrong with upgrades.

To get them to work right, a lot of time is needed in properly prepping
the original OS. It takes a lot longer to do that I've found than to
just perform a fresh install and reinstall the applications etc

In ,
philo typed:

I think the question of upgrading XP directly to Win7 is a moot point.

Over the years I have tried to upgrade operating systems and the last
time I got constantly good results was upgrading Win95 to Win98.

There are just too many things that go wrong with upgrades.

To get them to work right, a lot of time is needed in properly
prepping the original OS. It takes a lot longer to do that I've found
than to just perform a fresh install and reinstall the applications
etc

I can't say I disagree, although I can say sometimes it is worth a shot.
As I have one EA game that installs just fine under Windows 7 (even
under XP for that matter). But under Windows 8, the install asks where
you want to install it and no matter what you tell it, it loops back and
asks you again. This was a fresh Windows 8 install and I figured it
would be shorter to abandon this fresh install and try to upgrade
Windows 7 instead (had to call Microsoft and explain why I was using
that key again) which had the game already installed. That worked like a
charm and that Windows 8 machine has been running flawlessly ever since
then. Even so, I can say from prior experience that upgrading often
doesn't go so well. :-(

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - OE-QuoteFix v1.19.2
Centrino Core2 Duo T5600 1.83GHz - 4GB - Windows XP SP2

On 03/08/2014 03:41 PM, BillW50 wrote:

I can't say I disagree, although I can say sometimes it is worth a shot.
As I have one EA game that installs just fine under Windows 7 (even
under XP for that matter). But under Windows 8, the install asks where
you want to install it and no matter what you tell it, it loops back and
asks you again. This was a fresh Windows 8 install and I figured it
would be shorter to abandon this fresh install and try to upgrade
Windows 7 instead (had to call Microsoft and explain why I was using
that key again) which had the game already installed. That worked like a
charm and that Windows 8 machine has been running flawlessly ever since
then. Even so, I can say from prior experience that upgrading often
doesn't go so well. :-(




That was a very odd situation you had...though I have seen something
similar on Win7 when I was trying to install some older software.


In my situation I solved the problem by just creating a new folder on
the root directory.

On Sat, 08 Mar 2014 15:22:45 -0600, philo* wrote:

On 03/08/2014 02:15 PM, charlie wrote:
X




Installing Linux is pretty easy. Using Linux is pretty easy.

The problem is often in the little details such as exactly how the
different file mangers work etc.

To me, the major problem in an ops system "upgrade" is preserving
applications. With the earlier versions of windows, this was a
relatively minor problem. Now, it's a much bigger one.
Secondary problems are such things as drivers, particularly with
laptops. Industry obviously had an ulterior motive in making a seamless
transfer to a new ops system or new hardware and ops system difficult.
(Oh, we don't support that version anymore, so the authentication server
no loner functions. Or, buy a newer version, the old install process
will not work with OPS version X.)



I think the question of upgrading XP directly to Win7 is a moot point.

Over the years I have tried to upgrade operating systems and the last
time I got constantly good results was upgrading Win95 to Win98.


There are just too many things that go wrong with upgrades.

To get them to work right, a lot of time is needed in properly prepping
the original OS. It takes a lot longer to do that I've found than to
just perform a fresh install and reinstall the applications etc



Although many people will tell you that formatting and installing
cleanly is the best way to go, I disagree. Unlike with previous
versions of Windows, when doing an upgrade was often a mistake, an
upgrade to Windows XP or later replaces almost everything, and usually
works very well. With an occasional exception, I have always upgraded
rather than clean installing, and I have never had a problem. And I've
done no prepping.


The only real exception is when you are having problems; in that
situation, an upgrade often worsens problems, rather than solving
them.

My recommendation is to at least try the upgrade, since it's much
easier than a clean installation. You can always change your mind and
reinstall cleanly if problems develop.

However, don't assume that doing an upgrade relieves you of the need
to backup your data, etc. before beginning. Before starting to
upgrade, it's always prudent to recognize that things like a sudden
power loss can occur in the middle of it and cause the loss of
everything. For that reason you should make sure you have backups and
anything else you need to reinstall if the worst happens.

In ,
philo typed:
On 03/08/2014 03:41 PM, BillW50 wrote:

I can't say I disagree, although I can say sometimes it is worth a
shot. As I have one EA game that installs just fine under Windows 7
(even under XP for that matter). But under Windows 8, the install
asks where you want to install it and no matter what you tell it, it
loops back and asks you again. This was a fresh Windows 8 install
and I figured it would be shorter to abandon this fresh install and
try to upgrade Windows 7 instead (had to call Microsoft and explain
why I was using that key again) which had the game already
installed. That worked like a charm and that Windows 8 machine has
been running flawlessly ever since then. Even so, I can say from
prior experience that upgrading often doesn't go so well. :-(

That was a very odd situation you had...though I have seen something
similar on Win7 when I was trying to install some older software.

In my situation I solved the problem by just creating a new folder on
the root directory.

Yeah that was my first thought too, new folder in the root and it still
loops. Different drive, still loops. So I figured at that point it might
take me 4+ hours to figure how to install it under Windows 8. Internet
was no help, as others were having the exact same problem. So having
spare drives here, I cloned Windows 7 to a spare and then upgraded it
Windows 8. Still had the original Windows 8 drive in case this didn't
work and it did anyway. You know if I didn't have a backup plan, it
would have gone worse, right? ;-)

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - OE-QuoteFix v1.19.2
Centrino Core2 Duo T5600 1.83GHz - 4GB - Windows XP SP2

On 03/08/2014 04:10 PM, BillW50 wrote:


Yeah that was my first thought too, new folder in the root and it still
loops. Different drive, still loops. So I figured at that point it might
take me 4+ hours to figure how to install it under Windows 8. Internet
was no help, as others were having the exact same problem. So having
spare drives here, I cloned Windows 7 to a spare and then upgraded it
Windows 8. Still had the original Windows 8 drive in case this didn't
work and it did anyway. You know if I didn't have a backup plan, it
would have gone worse, right? ;-)




I do one of two things before I do anything drastic.


On an expendable drive, perform a "test" install.
(I now use the virtual machine method)


or

Just plain clone my entire drive first



If that game you tried is freeware let me know what it is as I'd like to
see what's going on.

On 03/08/2014 04:05 PM, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:


Although many people will tell you that formatting and installing
cleanly is the best way to go, I disagree. Unlike with previous
versions of Windows, when doing an upgrade was often a mistake, an
upgrade to Windows XP or later replaces almost everything, and usually
works very well. With an occasional exception, I have always upgraded
rather than clean installing, and I have never had a problem. And I've
done no prepping.


The only real exception is when you are having problems; in that
situation, an upgrade often worsens problems, rather than solving
them.

My recommendation is to at least try the upgrade, since it's much
easier than a clean installation. You can always change your mind and
reinstall cleanly if problems develop.

However, don't assume that doing an upgrade relieves you of the need
to backup your data, etc. before beginning. Before starting to
upgrade, it's always prudent to recognize that things like a sudden
power loss can occur in the middle of it and cause the loss of
everything. For that reason you should make sure you have backups and
anything else you need to reinstall if the worst happens.




The big danger is the upgrade that "functions"...but not the way it
should. If someone unfamiliar with the characteristics of the newer OS
performed an upgrade and it "worked"...they would not necessarily know
at first that it was not working optimally.

Fresh installs are generally easy.
Backing up and restoring data is usually easy.
Even reinstalling applications is usually easy.

I mainly use Thunderbird and Firefox, so using the existing profile on a
new machine is not difficult.

On Sat, 08 Mar 2014 16:48:48 -0600, philo* wrote:

On 03/08/2014 04:05 PM, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:


Although many people will tell you that formatting and installing
cleanly is the best way to go, I disagree. Unlike with previous
versions of Windows, when doing an upgrade was often a mistake, an
upgrade to Windows XP or later replaces almost everything, and usually
works very well. With an occasional exception, I have always upgraded
rather than clean installing, and I have never had a problem. And I've
done no prepping.


The only real exception is when you are having problems; in that
situation, an upgrade often worsens problems, rather than solving
them.

My recommendation is to at least try the upgrade, since it's much
easier than a clean installation. You can always change your mind and
reinstall cleanly if problems develop.

However, don't assume that doing an upgrade relieves you of the need
to backup your data, etc. before beginning. Before starting to
upgrade, it's always prudent to recognize that things like a sudden
power loss can occur in the middle of it and cause the loss of
everything. For that reason you should make sure you have backups and
anything else you need to reinstall if the worst happens.




The big danger is the upgrade that "functions"...but not the way it
should. If someone unfamiliar with the characteristics of the newer OS
performed an upgrade and it "worked"...they would not necessarily know
at first that it was not working optimally.


Granted that that can be the case, in my experience it's very rare.


Fresh installs are generally easy.


The installation part, yes.


Backing up and restoring data is usually easy.


Yes.


Even reinstalling applications is usually easy.


But for many people, no.

It depends on how many applications you have installed, how easy it is
for you to find the installation media, how easy it is for you to find
the product keys they may need, and how easy it is to reconfigure the
Applications (and Windows itself).

Whenever I've had to do a clean reinstallation of Windows, it's taken
me several days of my full attention. I do it when I need to, but it's
something I dread doing.

On 03/08/2014 05:07 PM, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:


snip

But for many people, no.

It depends on how many applications you have installed, how easy it is
for you to find the installation media, how easy it is for you to find
the product keys they may need, and how easy it is to reconfigure the
Applications (and Windows itself).

Whenever I've had to do a clean reinstallation of Windows, it's taken
me several days of my full attention. I do it when I need to, but it's
something I dread doing.





Yep, it generally does take a few days to get everything tweaked right.

In ,
philo typed:
On 03/08/2014 04:10 PM, BillW50 wrote:

Yeah that was my first thought too, new folder in the root and it
still loops. Different drive, still loops. So I figured at that
point it might take me 4+ hours to figure how to install it under
Windows 8. Internet was no help, as others were having the exact
same problem. So having spare drives here, I cloned Windows 7 to a
spare and then upgraded it Windows 8. Still had the original Windows
8 drive in case this didn't work and it did anyway. You know if I
didn't have a backup plan, it would have gone worse, right? ;-)

I do one of two things before I do anything drastic.

On an expendable drive, perform a "test" install.
(I now use the virtual machine method)

Well upgrading a clone on an expandable drive is the same idea, right?
And yes, I know lots of people have talk about VM here, but I have
stayed away since VM creates it own problems. Since I have expandable
machines, I like that idea better.

or

Just plain clone my entire drive first

If that game you tried is freeware let me know what it is as I'd like
to see what's going on.

I never heard of any Electronic Arts (EA) game ever becoming free, so I
don't think so. Anyway my niece called me up a few years back and asked
what so and so error meant? She said it happens whenever she runs Sims2.
Heck I didn't have a clue and I didn't even know what Sims2 was. I was
going to the store anyway and I picked up a copy. I ran it on one of my
machines that was very close to hers. And I discovered it was really
picky about the Intel integrated graphics driver that you were using.
Any other version of the driver except one, that error would popup.

The driver she needed was on the Intel website. Although Intel drivers
won't install on her Dell machine since the Intel install would stop and
say to contact Dell (and Dell didn't have that version). Nonsense, I
removed the Intel wrapper and then it installs on a Dell just fine.
Problem solved.

She had problems later and those were easily solved (since I knew
something about the game now). So I wanted to keep the game just in case
she had other problems. I don't think she is using that game anymore, so
nowadays it wouldn't even matter. Although I think her daughter is using
it now, so I might get a call.

I guess I tried to install this game under Windows 8 like 14 months ago
or whenever Windows 8 was officially released. That is when I checked
for this problem and nobody had a solution then. Maybe by now somebody
had figured it out, I dunno.

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - OE-QuoteFix v1.19.2
Centrino Core2 Duo T5600 1.83GHz - 4GB - Windows XP SP2

On 03/08/2014 05:36 PM, BillW50 wrote:



snip
Well upgrading a clone on an expandable drive is the same idea, right?
And yes, I know lots of people have talk about VM here, but I have
stayed away since VM creates it own problems. Since I have expandable
machines, I like that idea better.


I have a whole basement full of extra machines but I can sit up here
where it's warm and clean and just fire up a virtual machine...it's
pretty easy.

or

Just plain clone my entire drive first

If that game you tried is freeware let me know what it is as I'd like
to see what's going on.

I never heard of any Electronic Arts (EA) game ever becoming free, so I
don't think so. Anyway my niece called me up a few years back and asked
what so and so error meant? She said it happens whenever she runs Sims2.
Heck I didn't have a clue and I didn't even know what Sims2 was. I was
going to the store anyway and I picked up a copy. I ran it on one of my
machines that was very close to hers. And I discovered it was really
picky about the Intel integrated graphics driver that you were using.
Any other version of the driver except one, that error would popup.


snip

That's OK, I always have enough problems to deal with I really don't
need to start seeking them out