Gmail Arrival Alert

Apologies for this OT post. I can't find a Gmail discussion group -- but
I know there are some sharp cookies in this one!

My question: Has an add-on for Gmail ever been written that audibly
indicates that a new email has arrived, (preferably virus, spam, and
spyware free)?

If you know of one please educate me.

Thank you very much for your thoughts!

On 05/16/2016 03:23 AM, David wrote:
Apologies for this OT post. I can't find a Gmail discussion group -- but
I know there are some sharp cookies in this one!

My question: Has an add-on for Gmail ever been written that audibly
indicates that a new email has arrived, (preferably virus, spam, and
spyware free)?

If you know of one please educate me.

Thank you very much for your thoughts!




I use Thunderbird for my Gmail and there is an option to play a sound


Preferences...General

[Default] On Mon, 16 May 2016 05:53:20 -0500, in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general philo wrote:

On 05/16/2016 03:23 AM, David wrote:
Apologies for this OT post. I can't find a Gmail discussion group -- but
I know there are some sharp cookies in this one!

My question: Has an add-on for Gmail ever been written that audibly
indicates that a new email has arrived, (preferably virus, spam, and
spyware free)?

If you know of one please educate me.

Thank you very much for your thoughts!




I use Thunderbird for my Gmail and there is an option to play a sound


Preferences...General

Same thing for me, but Eudora. I have an idea the OP wants to
continue reading his mail on the web, but I'm not sure why people do
that.

I did come across yesterday, iirc, a FFox add-on that notified someone
when he got Yahoo mail, by the same guy who wrote Session Manager,
Michael Kraft, iirc. Yahoo is not gmail but it seems like it can be
done.

David wrote:

My question: Has an add-on for Gmail ever been written that audibly
indicates that a new email has arrived, (preferably virus, spam, and
spyware free)?

Any local e-mail client (and that includes e-mail programs along with
e-mail monitors) that supports POP3 or IMAP4 can alert you to new
e-mails in your Inbox. Some will issue a sound when there is a new
e-mail, some will show a popup, and some do both.

You don't need a full-blown local e-mail program, like Thunderbird or
Outlook, if all you intend to use is their webmail client (i.e., you
always use a web browser). A simple e-mail monitor program will suffice
(e.g., PopTray, MagicMailMonitor, Howard, em Client - max 2 accounts,
etc). Alas, many e-mail monitors do not release their GUI resources
when minimized (to a system tray icon) which means they often
continually consume as much memory as an e-mail program. Just because
the monitor program is not as robust as an e-mail program doesn't mean
the monitor program uses less memory than an e-mail program.

Remember to configure your Gmail account (server-side options) to allow
POP or IMAP access, or both, so your local e-mail program or monitor can
connect to your Gmail account to check for new e-mail. If you use an
IMAP e-mail program or monitor, be sure to configure its root folder to
"[Gmail]" (sans quotes). Most IMAP providers anchor their folders at
the root of their message store for an e-mail account. Google really
doesn't do POP or IMAP. Gmail uses labels aka tags to organize e-mails
and then lies to POP and IMAP clients by pretending the labels are the
mailbox (POP) or folders (IMAP). Google did not originally design their
e-mail service around POP or IMAP but instead as a webmail service.
They kludged together an interface for POP and IMAP which mostly works
but has several deficiencies or anomalies regarding RFC standards for
those e-mail protocols. Smart local e-mail clients will automatically
add "[Gmail]" as the root for the IMAP message store but if not then you
had to add it.

Also, Google emulates the BURL command (ratified back in 1999 but not
yet implemented in any e-mail program). This has the SMTP server send a
copy of outbound e-mails to the IMAP server's Sent folder. The purpose
is to make the client appear more responsive. Instead of having the
client upload both the outbound e-mail to the SMTP server and then put a
copy in its local Sent folder to also upload that copy, the client would
only upload 1 copy of the e-mail to the SMTP server, the SMTP server
sends it and copies it to the IMAP server's Sent folder, and the IMAP
server downloads (synchronizes) that copy down to the client. Most
users have much faster downstream bandwidth then they have upstream
bandwidth; i.e., uploading is far slower than downloading (users have
asynchronous bandwidth). So it is faster to download a copy from the
server's Sent folder than the client uploading it to the server. That
means Gmail will automatically put a copy of sent e-mails into your
server-side Sent folder and that gets sync'ed down to your client. If
you configure your client to "Save sent e-mail into Sent folder" then
you will end up with 2 copies the one copy from your client (that
then uploads that copy to the server) and another copy from the server
(SMTP to IMAP copy) downloaded to your client. Originally only Google
emulated the BURL command. Now Microsoft does it, too. If you see
duplicates of sent items in your Sent folder than configure the client
to NOT save its own copy of outbound e-mails in its Sent folder.

You don't say HOW you want to monitor for new e-mails. Could be you
want a local e-mail program or monitor to notify you. Could be you want
to get notified in your web browser which means you would have to leave
your web browser loaded all the time (not a good idea regarding security
and privacy). If you only want notification if and when you have your
load browser loaded, there are add-ons for Gmail. You didn't mention
WHICH web browser you use (your post was lacking details). For Firefox
and Chrome, I have heard of (but not used) the Gmail Notifier add-on.
If you go to addons.mozilla.org, you can search on "gmail".

[Default] On Mon, 16 May 2016 15:36:38 -0500, in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general VanguardLH wrote:

David wrote:

My question: Has an add-on for Gmail ever been written that audibly
indicates that a new email has arrived, (preferably virus, spam, and
spyware free)?

Any local e-mail client (and that includes e-mail programs along with
e-mail monitors) that supports POP3 or IMAP4 can alert you to new
e-mails in your Inbox. Some will issue a sound when there is a new
e-mail, some will show a popup, and some do both.

You don't need a full-blown local e-mail program, like Thunderbird or
Outlook, if all you intend to use is their webmail client (i.e., you
always use a web browser). A simple e-mail monitor program will suffice
(e.g., PopTray, MagicMailMonitor, Howard, em Client - max 2 accounts,
etc). Alas, many e-mail monitors do not release their GUI resources
when minimized (to a system tray icon) which means they often
continually consume as much memory as an e-mail program. Just because
the monitor program is not as robust as an e-mail program doesn't mean
the monitor program uses less memory than an e-mail program.

Remember to configure your Gmail account (server-side options) to allow
POP or IMAP access, or both, so your local e-mail program or monitor can
connect to your Gmail account to check for new e-mail.

Part of doing this, I think, is to find and check a box in gmail
settings or something labeled approximately, Use old email software.
If not old, maybe it calls it "decrepit"!! ;-) apparently that
means anything Google didn't write. And they try to discourage you
with threats of danger, but afaik, there is no danger.

Now I myself seem to have checked that box as a normal part of my
signing up for gmail, but other people apparently didn't and have been
unable to get their POP (or IMAP??) mail working until they did.



If you use an
IMAP e-mail program or monitor, be sure to configure its root folder to
"[Gmail]" (sans quotes). Most IMAP providers anchor their folders at
the root of their message store for an e-mail account. Google really
doesn't do POP or IMAP. Gmail uses labels aka tags to organize e-mails
and then lies to POP and IMAP clients by pretending the labels are the
mailbox (POP) or folders (IMAP). Google did not originally design their
e-mail service around POP or IMAP but instead as a webmail service.
They kludged together an interface for POP and IMAP which mostly works
but has several deficiencies or anomalies regarding RFC standards for
those e-mail protocols. Smart local e-mail clients will automatically
add "[Gmail]" as the root for the IMAP message store but if not then you
had to add it.

Also, Google emulates the BURL command (ratified back in 1999 but not
yet implemented in any e-mail program). This has the SMTP server send a
copy of outbound e-mails to the IMAP server's Sent folder. The purpose
is to make the client appear more responsive. Instead of having the
client upload both the outbound e-mail to the SMTP server and then put a
copy in its local Sent folder to also upload that copy, the client would
only upload 1 copy of the e-mail to the SMTP server, the SMTP server
sends it and copies it to the IMAP server's Sent folder, and the IMAP
server downloads (synchronizes) that copy down to the client. Most
users have much faster downstream bandwidth then they have upstream
bandwidth; i.e., uploading is far slower than downloading (users have
asynchronous bandwidth). So it is faster to download a copy from the
server's Sent folder than the client uploading it to the server. That
means Gmail will automatically put a copy of sent e-mails into your
server-side Sent folder and that gets sync'ed down to your client. If
you configure your client to "Save sent e-mail into Sent folder" then
you will end up with 2 copies the one copy from your client (that
then uploads that copy to the server) and another copy from the server
(SMTP to IMAP copy) downloaded to your client. Originally only Google
emulated the BURL command. Now Microsoft does it, too. If you see
duplicates of sent items in your Sent folder than configure the client
to NOT save its own copy of outbound e-mails in its Sent folder.

You don't say HOW you want to monitor for new e-mails. Could be you
want a local e-mail program or monitor to notify you. Could be you want
to get notified in your web browser which means you would have to leave
your web browser loaded all the time (not a good idea regarding security
and privacy). If you only want notification if and when you have your
load browser loaded, there are add-ons for Gmail. You didn't mention
WHICH web browser you use (your post was lacking details). For Firefox
and Chrome, I have heard of (but not used) the Gmail Notifier add-on.
If you go to addons.mozilla.org, you can search on "gmail".

Philo, Micky: I used to use Eudora, and liked it, but found web-mail
(Gmail) to be more convenient while on travel. That's probably a poor
reason anymore but I'm too old to change my habits now. Have heard good
words about Thunderbird but never tried it.

Vanguard: I see that I have, again, gotten myself way over my head from
your reply. And I now see that I should have been more detailed in
explaining my scenario to all of you. I'll try to be more explicit:

I run two browsers, Opera and FFox. FFox primarily for Gmail and any links
that Gmail might deliver. I use Opera for everything else, (for no good
reason except that I have used it for many years and am accustomed to it.)
I usually have both browers running when I am using the computer. But
Opera or the other programs take the whole screen so I can't know if
anything is happening with Gmail. It would be nice if Gmail could tell me
when a new email has arrived, otherwise I have to periodically stop what I
am working on (in Opera or other programs), to check FFox/Gmail. For me, it
seems like an unnecessary waste of time and concentration.

Does this make it any easier to understand my request?

[Default] On Tue, 17 May 2016 10:26:54 +0700, in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general David wrote:

Philo, Micky: I used to use Eudora, and liked it, but found web-mail
(Gmail) to be more convenient while on travel.

Sometimes when I travel I take a netbook, but other times I just use
Verizon's webmail or I don't bother to read my email at all. Then
when I get home, I download all the mail that came while I was gone to
my computer, where it is stored.

That's probably a poor
reason anymore but I'm too old to change my habits now. Have heard good
words about Thunderbird but never tried it.

Vanguard: I see that I have, again, gotten myself way over my head from
your reply. And I now see that I should have been more detailed in
explaining my scenario to all of you. I'll try to be more explicit:

I run two browsers, Opera and FFox. FFox primarily for Gmail and any links
that Gmail might deliver. I use Opera for everything else, (for no good
reason except that I have used it for many years and am accustomed to it.)
I usually have both browers running when I am using the computer. But
Opera or the other programs take the whole screen so I can't know if

I run everything full screen too, unless for some stupid reason
they've made that impossible. When I see a screen with a bunch of
windows of different sizes in different places, it looks ugly to me.

anything is happening with Gmail. It would be nice if Gmail could tell me
when a new email has arrived, otherwise I have to periodically stop what I
am working on (in Opera or other programs), to check FFox/Gmail. For me, it
seems like an unnecessary waste of time and concentration.

Does this make it any easier to understand my request?

Didn't his list of programs help you. " A simple e-mail monitor
program will suffice (e.g., PopTray, MagicMailMonitor, Howard, em
Client - max 2 accounts, etc). Alas, many e-mail monitors do not
release their GUI resources when minimized (to a system tray icon)
which means they often continually consume as much memory as an e-mail
program. Just because the monitor program is not as robust as an
e-mail program doesn't mean the monitor program uses less memory than
an e-mail program. " Is it that last part that bothers you? Maybe
you can find out one or more that are not like that.

Micky
with
in microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
on Mon, 16 May 2016 @ 22:04:53 -0400
wrote:

(Think about it Micky: is all that needed in an attribution line to see
who is being quoted? I'm sure I could add a lot more, like a full
duplication of their headers.)

VanguardLH wrote:

David wrote:

My question: Has an add-on for Gmail ever been written that audibly
indicates that a new email has arrived, (preferably virus, spam, and
spyware free)?

Any local e-mail client ... that supports POP3 or IMAP4 can alert you
to new e-mails in your Inbox.
...
Remember to configure your Gmail account (server-side options) to
allow POP or IMAP access, or both, so your local e-mail program or
monitor can connect to your Gmail account to check for new e-mail.

Part of doing this, I think, is to find and check a box in gmail
settings or something labeled approximately, Use old email software.
If not old, maybe it calls it "decrepit"!! ;-) apparently that
means anything Google didn't write. And they try to discourage you
with threats of danger, but afaik, there is no danger.

My guess as to what you were trying to vaguely recall is that you may
need to configure Gmail to allow "less secure clients" to connect to
your Gmail account. What that means is a client other than Google
Chrome will be allowed to connect to your Gmail account. Google never
does define what it considers secure versus insecure (less secure).
Anothing other than Google is apparently "less secure". Uh huh.

I'm not talking about setting up 2-factor authentication. That requires
you to do the login on their web site and also use a smartphone to
"second the nomination" for the connect attempt. I'm talking about
Google's undefined identification of what they consider an insecure
client and instead allowing any client to connect to your Gmail account
via POP or IMAP.

- Go to "My Account":
o Click on the yourinitial icon at the top right and select the "My
Account" link in the drop-down list.
o Or just go to https://myaccount.google.com/.
- Click on "Connected apps & sites".
- ENABLE (turn on) the "Allow less secure apps" option.

You need to toggle from Google's default of disabling "less secure"
clients from connecting to your Gmail account.

Now I myself seem to have checked that box as a normal part of my
signing up for gmail, but other people apparently didn't and have been
unable to get their POP (or IMAP??) mail working until they did.

If it is the "Allow less secure apps" option is what you are talking
about, that option is NOT enabled by default when you create a Gmail
account. You have to toggle the option to ENABLE "less secure apps" to
connect to your Gmail account. Typically users toggle this option after
they create a new account and find their e-mail client will error on
trying to connect to Gmail.

(snipped the rest of my quoted content to which Micky did not reply)


off-topic

NOTE: When replying inline but not adding another reply to further
quoted content, snip out the non-replied quoted content. There is no
point in leaving in a bunch of content that you don't address.

NOTE: Look at your attribution line. Pretty hard to scan your reply to
see who was quoted. "[Default]"? What does that convey to anyone else?
Who (their nym) said what is most important in threading the hierarchy
of responses. Choose to use their nym or their e-mail address (often
quite long) but not both. E-mail address are often fake or use common
naming so nyms are usually a better choice. Adding date is okay (after
their nym) but only if you think your post will survive far longer than
the quoted post where its Date, Message-ID, and Newsgroups headers are
available. Threading already shows the ordering of posts. The date for
a post may be wrong. Readers already know in which newsgroup they are
reading a post and which may differ from the one you specified due to
cross-posting of the quoted post(s). Message-ID is more appropriate
than Newsgroup(s) but, again, only if you think their post(s) will
disappear before yours due to varying retention periods on different
Usenet servers.

[Default] On Mon, 16 May 2016 15:36:38 -0500, in microsoft.public.windowsxp.general VanguardLH wrote:
versus
Micky wrote on 2016/05/16 in :
versus
Micky wrote in :
versus
Micky wrote on 2016/05/16:
verus
Micky wrote:

You're trying to see who said what, not to duplicate a major subset of
their post's headers. You discovered how to tailor the attribution line
in your NNTP client and decided to throw every variable at it.

Even if the quoted post is no longer available to the reader, they can
use the References header to see what post it was to which you replied.

I do applaud your constraint at not adding a signature that duplicates
your identity already in the headers of your post and displayed in the
message list of the newsreader, or to add a cutsy MOTD sig which is
inane fluff and always off-topic, or to spam a personal web page.

/off-topic

David wrote:

Philo, Micky: I used to use Eudora, and liked it, but found web-mail
(Gmail) to be more convenient while on travel.

I run two browsers, Opera and FFox. It would be nice if Gmail could tell me
when a new email has arrived, otherwise I have to periodically stop what I
am working on (in Opera or other programs), to check FFox/Gmail.

So, as per my guess in the last paragraph of my reply to you, you only
use a web browser to check your e-mail account(s). As mentioned, get an
add-on that will check your accounts. As I recall, Gmail Notifier will
put an icon in the toolbar to tell you how many e-mails are new (unread)
but it also checks other accounts (so naming it Gmail Notifier was a bad
choice by its author). There are several add-ons that integrate Gmail
and notifications in the web browser.

Gmail doesn't "tell you when a new e-mail arrives". The add-on operates
as an e-mail client, *it* does the checking, and then provides
notification to you about the new e-mails.

If you don't want to use an add-on, set your home page in the web
browser to https://www.gmail.com/ so when you load them you go there.
Then leave that tab loaded all the time while you open new tabs for
other sites. To check if you have new e-mails, just click on that tab.
That's how my aunt keeps, um, tabs on her Hotmail account while she is
web browsing. She only uses the webmail client to her account and she
leaves a tab open to it so she can quickly check without leaving the web
browser or even having to change focus to a different app window.

http://add0n.com/fastest-gmail.html
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/fir...nbox-notifier/

That's just one example of an add-on (for Firefox and Opera). I don't
use webmail clients (I rarely use web browsers for e-mail) to monitor or
manage my multiple e-mail accounts at different providers, so I cannot
recommend a particular web browser add-on. You might want to start a
new discussion asking which add-on for which web browser is best for
monitoring your e-mail accounts.

The 2nd add-on only works with Gmail since it employs Google's API to
access inbox.google.com (for a web app). If all you have is a Gmail
account then it looks like that one is best for you. I have accounts at
Gmail, Hotmail, Outlook.com, and my ISP so notifying about me about only
new Gmail messages (my least used account - basically to inform me when
there are Google Voice voicemails) would have very limited value.

[Default] On Tue, 17 May 2016 03:04:21 -0500, in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general VanguardLH wrote:

Micky
with
in microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
on Mon, 16 May 2016 @ 22:04:53 -0400
wrote:

(Think about it Micky: is all that needed in an attribution line to see
who is being quoted?

No, I think more is needed. I think the ng is needed for times when
someone crossposts so that one can see where the replies are coming
from. Other than that, this is the default attribution line.
The date and time are very important because they help me find the
previous post, when it's a very long thread or the text is no longer
in the news browser. I think the message-id is probably not needed,
but the must have had a reason for including it.

I'm sure I could add a lot more, like a full
duplication of their headers.)

Feel free. This is not the first time you've seemed to complain about
mine. IMO it's really no skin off your nose if it's longer than you
want and I don't see myself changing it.


VanguardLH wrote:

David wrote:

My question: Has an add-on for Gmail ever been written that audibly
indicates that a new email has arrived, (preferably virus, spam, and
spyware free)?

Any local e-mail client ... that supports POP3 or IMAP4 can alert you
to new e-mails in your Inbox.
...
Remember to configure your Gmail account (server-side options) to
allow POP or IMAP access, or both, so your local e-mail program or
monitor can connect to your Gmail account to check for new e-mail.

Part of doing this, I think, is to find and check a box in gmail
settings or something labeled approximately, Use old email software.
If not old, maybe it calls it "decrepit"!! ;-) apparently that
means anything Google didn't write. And they try to discourage you
with threats of danger, but afaik, there is no danger.

My guess as to what you were trying to vaguely recall is that you may
need to configure Gmail to allow "less secure clients" to connect to

That was indeed the phrase they use.

your Gmail account. What that means is a client other than Google
Chrome will be allowed to connect to your Gmail account. Google never
does define what it considers secure versus insecure (less secure).
Anothing other than Google is apparently "less secure". Uh huh.

Right.

I'm not talking about setting up 2-factor authentication. That requires
you to do the login on their web site and also use a smartphone to
"second the nomination" for the connect attempt. I'm talking about

I didn't think so, and now for sure the OP won't think so. I don't
use that, and I'm not going to tell google my cell phone number. They
know enough about me already.

Google's undefined identification of what they consider an insecure
client and instead allowing any client to connect to your Gmail account
via POP or IMAP.

- Go to "My Account":
o Click on the yourinitial icon at the top right and select the "My
Account" link in the drop-down list.
o Or just go to https://myaccount.google.com/.
- Click on "Connected apps & sites".
- ENABLE (turn on) the "Allow less secure apps" option.

You need to toggle from Google's default of disabling "less secure"
clients from connecting to your Gmail account.

Now I myself seem to have checked that box as a normal part of my
signing up for gmail, but other people apparently didn't and have been
unable to get their POP (or IMAP??) mail working until they did.

If it is the "Allow less secure apps" option is what you are talking
about, that option is NOT enabled by default when you create a Gmail

That would account for why others have problems, but not for why I
never did. But it's too long ago and I can't be sure what I thought.
I just know POP and Eudora worked for me on the first try.

account. You have to toggle the option to ENABLE "less secure apps" to
connect to your Gmail account. Typically users toggle this option after
they create a new account and find their e-mail client will error on
trying to connect to Gmail.

Some of them didn't know what to do, and asked on the email list.

(snipped the rest of my quoted content to which Micky did not reply)

I read it, but no comments came to mind.

off-topic

NOTE: When replying inline but not adding another reply to further
quoted content, snip out the non-replied quoted content. There is no
point in leaving in a bunch of content that you don't address.

NOTE: Look at your attribution line. Pretty hard to scan your reply to
see who was quoted. "[Default]"? What does that convey to anyone else?
Who (their nym) said what is most important in threading the hierarchy
of responses. Choose to use their nym or their e-mail address (often
quite long) but not both. E-mail address are often fake or use common
naming so nyms are usually a better choice. Adding date is okay (after
their nym) but only if you think your post will survive far longer than
the quoted post where its Date, Message-ID, and Newsgroups headers are
available. Threading already shows the ordering of posts. The date for
a post may be wrong. Readers already know in which newsgroup they are
reading a post and which may differ from the one you specified due to
cross-posting of the quoted post(s). Message-ID is more appropriate
than Newsgroup(s) but, again, only if you think their post(s) will
disappear before yours due to varying retention periods on different
Usenet servers.

[Default] On Mon, 16 May 2016 15:36:38 -0500, in microsoft.public.windowsxp.general VanguardLH wrote:
versus
Micky wrote on 2016/05/16 in :
versus
Micky wrote in :
versus
Micky wrote on 2016/05/16:
verus
Micky wrote:

You're trying to see who said what, not to duplicate a major subset of
their post's headers. You discovered how to tailor the attribution line
in your NNTP client and decided to throw every variable at it.

Even if the quoted post is no longer available to the reader, they can
use the References header to see what post it was to which you replied.

I do applaud your constraint at not adding a signature that duplicates
your identity already in the headers of your post and displayed in the
message list of the newsreader, or to add a cutsy MOTD sig which is
inane fluff and always off-topic, or to spam a personal web page.

/off-topic

David wrote in
:

Apologies for this OT post. I can't find a Gmail discussion group --
but I know there are some sharp cookies in this one!

My question: Has an add-on for Gmail ever been written that audibly
indicates that a new email has arrived, (preferably virus, spam, and
spyware free)?

If you know of one please educate me.

Thank you very much for your thoughts!

If you have no success here, perhaps set Gmail to forward your mail, as I
do, to another email client which does have an option for an audible mail
alert. Then just read the email with Gmail, using the other service only
as an audible alert.



--
You know it's time to clean the refrigerator
when something closes the door from the inside.

David wrote:
I can't find a Gmail discussion group

You can access the gmail help group as well as gmail help topics from
gmail webmail help.

My question: Has an add-on for Gmail ever been written that audibly
indicates that a new email has arrived, (preferably virus, spam, and
spyware free)?

Previously there was a gmail notifier beta but that has been
discontinued and google advises its removal.

For gmail webmail, now there is a generic notifications function which
works in chrome, firefox, and safari which is set/enabled/configured in
the browser AND

.... in gmail webmail's settings general/ Desktop notifications, you can
turn off or on for two different conditions any new inbox message or
primary tab or only when an important message arrives.

All of the above assumes your initial question was about gmail webmail
and that you would a browser tab open to your webmail account.

--
Mike Easter

David wrote:
FFox primarily for Gmail

In ffx, the setting for gmail's notifications is in

linux/ gear icon/ preferences/ content/ notifications/ choose

I think windows is Tools/ Options/ etc.

--
Mike Easter

Micky wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

Micky
with
in microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
on Mon, 16 May 2016 @ 22:04:53 -0400
wrote:

(Think about it Micky: is all that needed in an attribution line to
see who is being quoted?

No, I think more is needed. I think the ng is needed for times when
someone crossposts so that one can see where the replies are coming
from.

Your attribution line will NOT list all the newsgroups to which a quoted
post was submitted. You will list only 1 newsgroup: yours. Your value
in your attribution line is inaccurate. If someone wants to see in
which of the cross-posted newsgroup you chose to reply, they can look at
your Xref header.

Note what your attribution line says versus what you claim. It says
that *I* posted in the XP newsgroup, not that you posted from there. I
could submit from ANY of the cross-posted newsgroups but your
attribution line will lie since it gives where you were when you
replied, not where I was. I suppose you could add even more noise to
your attribution line to say:

Micky other noise replied in Micky'sOneChoiceOfCrossPostedNewsgroups
to VanguardLH who wrote in vanguard'sXref".

You would have to extract *my* Xref header for your current attribution
line to be accurate, not insert the particular newsgroup from one of
those in the cross-post list from where YOU decided to reply.

Other than that, this is the default attribution line.
The date and time are very important because they help me find the
previous post, when it's a very long thread or the text is no longer
in the news browser.

Your newsreader, as well as almost all other non-console (i.e., GUI)
newsreaders support threading.

Also, if you don't use threading (which relies on the References header,
NOT the Date header) then someone whose clock is off will result in
screwed up threading. In fact, it's an old trick to get a spammer's or
malcontent's post to the top of a date-sorted flat list of messages.

If you want to see the parent post to which you replied, just follow the
gridlines. Oh, you're using a client that only uses indentation. The
Date won't help you quickly glom onto the parent post unless, of course,
for some odd reason you think sorting by date will give you the correct
hierarchy of posts - which is NOT how they get threaded. Threading is
performed on the References header which lists the posts, in order, to
the parent of your reply, to its parent, and so on to the original post.

When you reply, there is no guarantee that your reply will show up right
after the parent post you quoted. Usenet is a world-wide mesh network
of peering NNTP server. It takes time to propagate posts in the same
newsgroup on server to all the other servers. A dozen replies could
show up between the parent post and your reply to it despite at the time
you submitted there were yet no other replies that your client saw.
While gridlines are handy to visually link child to parent post,
indentation should be sufficient unless the number of replies numbers in
the dozens or hundreds (but then indentation, gridlines, and date
sorting won't help because you'll still have to scroll back to the
parent post). Date sorting when scrolling will mean you will lose track
of which is the parent post. Indentation is often hard to follow when
having to scroll. Gridlines are easier to follow but you have to
visually keep the alignment as some spot on the screen when you scroll.
A flat list of messages is guaranteed to get you lost as to who said
what to whom hence why newsreaders have afforded users with some means
of illustrating the hierarchy of the posts by threading them.

I think the message-id is probably not needed, but the must have had a
reason for including it.

Based on your style, and your statement that "more is needed" for my
deliberately overly noisy attribution line used as an example, EVERY
header of the parent post is needed. You would end up viewing the
parent posts in raw format (headers and body) and quoting all of that to
provide every piece of information already present in the parent post.
Do you address real people this way at a party where everytime you speak
you append an extended prologue before getting to the gist?

While these replies are long, imagine how lopsided would be your
attribution if all you add is a one-line response, especially if you add
MORE header duplication. Same happens for folks that have a dozen, or
more, lines for their signatu small reply, huge [spam] signature.

VanguardLH wrote:

You need to toggle from Google's default of disabling "less secure"
clients from connecting to your Gmail account.

Now I myself seem to have checked that box as a normal part of my
signing up for gmail, but other people apparently didn't and have been
unable to get their POP (or IMAP??) mail working until they did.

The option is not presented when creating a new account. It is an
option in the account you have to dig to find after experiencing your
client cannot connect despite the obvious mail settings (those available
via the gear icon for that set of options) are set correctly.

https://support.google.com/accounts/.../6010255?hl=en
https://support.google.com/a/answer/6260879?hl=en

It was a change in behavior that nailed lots of Gmail users 2 years ago.
Those using clients that employed OAuth were okay. Those using the
standard POP and IMAP protocols got nailed. I'd have to research to see
if Google mandates non-OAuth clients as insecure if the account is
configured for 2-factor authentication (I don't use that since I'm not
getting a smartphone and paying for its service just to support a more
nuisancesome login procedure at Google).

http://www.ghacks.net/2014/07/21/gma...enable-access/
"... Google has disabled [less secure apps] access by default."

You just don't remember having been bitten by this new and improved
security feature back then and having to wade into your account settings
(not the mail settings) to allow less secure apps to connect.

By the way, in case you missed it, the OP's problem was with an add-on,
not with his Gmail account configuration. There's no point in further
discussion of Google's "less secure apps" option.

(snipped the rest of my quoted content to which Micky did not reply)

I read it, but no comments came to mind.

Then trim.

off-topic

NOTE: When replying inline but not adding another reply to further
quoted content, snip out the non-replied quoted content. There is no
point in leaving in a bunch of content that you don't address.

NOTE: Look at your attribution line. Pretty hard to scan your reply to
see who was quoted. "[Default]"? What does that convey to anyone else?
Who (their nym) said what is most important in threading the hierarchy
of responses. Choose to use their nym or their e-mail address (often
quite long) but not both. E-mail address are often fake or use common
naming so nyms are usually a better choice. Adding date is okay (after
their nym) but only if you think your post will survive far longer than
the quoted post where its Date, Message-ID, and Newsgroups headers are
available. Threading already shows the ordering of posts. The date for
a post may be wrong. Readers already know in which newsgroup they are
reading a post and which may differ from the one you specified due to
cross-posting of the quoted post(s). Message-ID is more appropriate
than Newsgroup(s) but, again, only if you think their post(s) will
disappear before yours due to varying retention periods on different
Usenet servers.

[Default] On Mon, 16 May 2016 15:36:38 -0500, in microsoft.public.windowsxp.general VanguardLH wrote:
versus
Micky wrote on 2016/05/16 in :
versus
Micky wrote in :
versus
Micky wrote on 2016/05/16:
verus
Micky wrote:

You're trying to see who said what, not to duplicate a major subset of
their post's headers. You discovered how to tailor the attribution line
in your NNTP client and decided to throw every variable at it.

Even if the quoted post is no longer available to the reader, they can
use the References header to see what post it was to which you replied.

I do applaud your constraint at not adding a signature that duplicates
your identity already in the headers of your post and displayed in the
message list of the newsreader, or to add a cutsy MOTD sig which is
inane fluff and always off-topic, or to spam a personal web page.

/off-topic

Since you didn't reply to any of my off-topic section, you should have
trimmed it from the quoted content in your reply. Since the OP found
his problem has nothing to do with the "less secure apps" option in
Gmail, that should get trimmed in further replies, if any.

I'm surprised that Forte Agent prepends "" as quoting character instead
of " " (but compressing whitespace between sequential "" line prefix
characters). The whitespace facilitates readability. I could not find
an online copy of the manual for Forte Agent and their FAQs don't hit on
how to configure this.

In message , David
writes:
Philo, Micky: I used to use Eudora, and liked it, but found web-mail
(Gmail) to be more convenient while on travel. That's probably a poor
reason anymore but I'm too old to change my habits now. Have heard good
words about Thunderbird but never tried it.

If by "on travel" you mean using a different computer (or other device
such as a 'phone), then fair enough. If you'd be using the same computer
both at home and when travelling, then I'd certainly put a proper email
client on it. (If you could use Eudora, you could certainly use
Thunderbird.)
[]
I run two browsers, Opera and FFox. FFox primarily for Gmail and any links
that Gmail might deliver. I use Opera for everything else, (for no good
reason except that I have used it for many years and am accustomed to it.)
I usually have both browers running when I am using the computer. But

(Vanguard says that's unwise security-wise [having browser running all
the time]. I can't disagree, but I do too!)

Opera or the other programs take the whole screen so I can't know if

Well, most programs - I am pretty sure including Opera - don't _have_ to
take the whole screen; I very rarely use anything full-screen, and I'm
using a 11.x" screen! However, if full-screen is how you prefer to work,
that's fair enough.

anything is happening with Gmail. It would be nice if Gmail could tell me
when a new email has arrived, otherwise I have to periodically stop what I
am working on (in Opera or other programs), to check FFox/Gmail. For me, it
seems like an unnecessary waste of time and concentration.

Does this make it any easier to understand my request?

Yes. I'm assuming you want an audible or pop-up notification. Vanguard
says there are add-ons for Firefox that will do the job (without
looking, I don't know if they are audible or popup, or offer a choice).
The fact that you use Firefox for your Gmail and Opera for the rest of
your browsing probably actually helps here.

(I still think a "proper" email client is a better way to go though.
Most of them will allow an audible "you have new mail" alert - in many
cases letting you specify the sound file to be used [though usually
coming with at least one].)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Lewis: ... d'you think there's a god?
Morse: ... There are times when I wish to god there was one. (Inspector Morse.)