VSS issues

Hi All,

W7-pro-sp1, x64

I have Cobian Backup running all over two counties on
countless machines using Volume Shadow copy Service
without issue

One THIS ONE MACHINE, I constantly get VSS errors. For example:

ERR 2017-03-15 12:17 Cannot open
file "\\?\GLOBALROOT\Device\HarddiskVolumeShadowCop y46\
Documents and Settings\Accounting\Local Settings\
Microsoft\Outlook\RoamCache\Stream_AvailabilityOpt ions_2_
CD93C3631EA07D4F89F79DA2DE450230.dat".

The process cannot access the file because it is being
used by another process

And it happens on virtually every directory I am trying
to back up (not just the above). And they indeed correspond
to programs the customer has open (Outlook [she likes
the calendar], Thunderbird [she doesn't like the calendar],
Firefox, Quickbooks, etc.). If she closes all her programs,
the error go away.

"used by another process" ???? Isn't VSS suppose to get
around that? IT DOES EVERYWHERE ELSE!

What the heck ???

-T

On 03/16/2017 11:46 AM, Paul wrote:
T wrote:
Hi All,

W7-pro-sp1, x64

I have Cobian Backup running all over two counties on
countless machines using Volume Shadow copy Service
without issue

One THIS ONE MACHINE, I constantly get VSS errors. For example:

ERR 2017-03-15 12:17 Cannot open
file "\\?\GLOBALROOT\Device\HarddiskVolumeShadowCop y46\
Documents and Settings\Accounting\Local Settings\
Microsoft\Outlook\RoamCache\Stream_AvailabilityOpt ions_2_
CD93C3631EA07D4F89F79DA2DE450230.dat".

The process cannot access the file because it is being
used by another process

And it happens on virtually every directory I am trying
to back up (not just the above). And they indeed correspond
to programs the customer has open (Outlook [she likes
the calendar], Thunderbird [she doesn't like the calendar],
Firefox, Quickbooks, etc.). If she closes all her programs,
the error go away.

"used by another process" ???? Isn't VSS suppose to get
around that? IT DOES EVERYWHERE ELSE!

What the heck ???

-T

They make use of vssadmin command here, as part of their initial debug
steps.

http://kb.macrium.com/knowledgebasearticle50010.aspx

Paul


Hi Paul,

Great reference! Now to find out who the stray "writer" is that
has a lock on the shadow copy.

Thank you!

-T

T wrote:
Hi All,

W7-pro-sp1, x64

I have Cobian Backup running all over two counties on
countless machines using Volume Shadow copy Service
without issue

One THIS ONE MACHINE, I constantly get VSS errors. For example:

ERR 2017-03-15 12:17 Cannot open
file "\\?\GLOBALROOT\Device\HarddiskVolumeShadowCop y46\
Documents and Settings\Accounting\Local Settings\
Microsoft\Outlook\RoamCache\Stream_AvailabilityOpt ions_2_
CD93C3631EA07D4F89F79DA2DE450230.dat".

The process cannot access the file because it is being
used by another process

And it happens on virtually every directory I am trying
to back up (not just the above). And they indeed correspond
to programs the customer has open (Outlook [she likes
the calendar], Thunderbird [she doesn't like the calendar],
Firefox, Quickbooks, etc.). If she closes all her programs,
the error go away.

"used by another process" ???? Isn't VSS suppose to get
around that? IT DOES EVERYWHERE ELSE!

What the heck ???

-T

They make use of vssadmin command here, as part of their initial debug steps.

http://kb.macrium.com/knowledgebasearticle50010.aspx

Paul

T wrote:

W7-pro-sp1, x64

I have Cobian Backup running all over two counties on
countless machines using Volume Shadow copy Service
without issue

One THIS ONE MACHINE, I constantly get VSS errors. For example:

ERR 2017-03-15 12:17 Cannot open
file "\\?\GLOBALROOT\Device\HarddiskVolumeShadowCop y46\
Documents and Settings\Accounting\Local Settings\
Microsoft\Outlook\RoamCache\Stream_AvailabilityOpt ions_2_
CD93C3631EA07D4F89F79DA2DE450230.dat".

The process cannot access the file because it is being
used by another process

And it happens on virtually every directory I am trying
to back up (not just the above). And they indeed correspond
to programs the customer has open (Outlook [she likes
the calendar], Thunderbird [she doesn't like the calendar],
Firefox, Quickbooks, etc.). If she closes all her programs,
the error go away.

"used by another process" ???? Isn't VSS suppose to get
around that? IT DOES EVERYWHERE ELSE!

How do you know that VSS is enabled on the problematic host?

https://www.veritas.com/support/en_US/article.000037440

Note: You need to load cmd.exe with admin privileges to use vssadmin.

Yes, VSS was designed to assist backup programs to access inuse files;
however, that does not mean Windows makes all files available within an
VSS snapshot.

https://support.intronis.com/Knowled...napshot_a_File

You do know that Cobian was abandoned over 4 years ago, right? Well,
then why are your paying customers using unsupported software? If they
are paying you to support them then they should be using currently
support software, especially for business use. The software might still
be usable today but paying customers should be using support software.

On 2017-03-16 12:25, T wrote:

[snip]

And it happens on virtually every directory I am trying
to back up (not just the above). And they indeed correspond
to programs the customer has open (Outlook [she likes
the calendar], Thunderbird [she doesn't like the calendar],
Firefox, Quickbooks, etc.). If she closes all her programs,
the error go away.

"used by another process" ???? Isn't VSS suppose to get
around that? IT DOES EVERYWHERE ELSE!

What the heck ???

Lol, interesting indeed! Let us know what you find with vssadmin.

Best Regards,

--
! _\|/_ Sylvain /
! (o o) Memberavid-Suzuki-Fdn/EFF/Red+Cross/SPCA/Planetary-Society
oO-( )-Oo No matter who you vote for, the government wins.

On 03/16/2017 04:12 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote:

W7-pro-sp1, x64

I have Cobian Backup running all over two counties on
countless machines using Volume Shadow copy Service
without issue

One THIS ONE MACHINE, I constantly get VSS errors. For example:

ERR 2017-03-15 12:17 Cannot open
file "\\?\GLOBALROOT\Device\HarddiskVolumeShadowCop y46\
Documents and Settings\Accounting\Local Settings\
Microsoft\Outlook\RoamCache\Stream_AvailabilityOpt ions_2_
CD93C3631EA07D4F89F79DA2DE450230.dat".

The process cannot access the file because it is being
used by another process

And it happens on virtually every directory I am trying
to back up (not just the above). And they indeed correspond
to programs the customer has open (Outlook [she likes
the calendar], Thunderbird [she doesn't like the calendar],
Firefox, Quickbooks, etc.). If she closes all her programs,
the error go away.

"used by another process" ???? Isn't VSS suppose to get
around that? IT DOES EVERYWHERE ELSE!

How do you know that VSS is enabled on the problematic host?

It service show it is running. And
vssadmin list shadowstorage
is active


https://www.veritas.com/support/en_US/article.000037440

Note: You need to load cmd.exe with admin privileges to use vssadmin.

I am about to check who the writers. And the stinker doesn't
have a problem when I run it. I do believe it is one of the programs
she has running that is causing the issue. And I I have a list
of them from the crash report.


Yes, VSS was designed to assist backup programs to access inuse files;
however, that does not mean Windows makes all files available within an
VSS snapshot.

https://support.intronis.com/Knowled...napshot_a_File

This will be fun


You do know that Cobian was abandoned over 4 years ago, right?

Yes, I do. The new owner says he is working on it.

Well,
then why are your paying customers using unsupported software?

Well, now. Let me think.... Because it works better than
another thing I have come across.

If they
are paying you to support them then they should be using currently
support software, especially for business use. The software might still
be usable today but paying customers should be using support software.

Not necessarily so. They should be running what software meets
their needs. Some "supported" software is so crappy it brings tears
to my eyes. Hmmm. Think Windows Nein. Ever call M$'s tech support
line? The word "worthless" comes to mind. Ever hear XP is
unsupported and is so much more vulnerable to attack, even when
the actual number don't support it?

I go for what meets the need of the customer. I evaluate
each item individually. If paid/supported software works
best, then that is what I use. If open source works best,
then I use that.

And in my experience, with certain notable exceptions, open
source is far, far better supported than "paid" software.
And, to repeat, with notable exceptions.

On 03/16/2017 09:25 AM, T wrote:
Hi All,

W7-pro-sp1, x64

I have Cobian Backup running all over two counties on
countless machines using Volume Shadow copy Service
without issue

One THIS ONE MACHINE, I constantly get VSS errors. For example:

ERR 2017-03-15 12:17 Cannot open
file "\\?\GLOBALROOT\Device\HarddiskVolumeShadowCop y46\
Documents and Settings\Accounting\Local Settings\
Microsoft\Outlook\RoamCache\Stream_AvailabilityOpt ions_2_
CD93C3631EA07D4F89F79DA2DE450230.dat".

The process cannot access the file because it is being
used by another process

And it happens on virtually every directory I am trying
to back up (not just the above). And they indeed correspond
to programs the customer has open (Outlook [she likes
the calendar], Thunderbird [she doesn't like the calendar],
Firefox, Quickbooks, etc.). If she closes all her programs,
the error go away.

"used by another process" ???? Isn't VSS suppose to get
around that? IT DOES EVERYWHERE ELSE!

What the heck ???

-T


Figured it out.

First off: editorial comment mumble, mumble /editorial comment

Okay, that out of the way.

I kept thinking my shadow file allocation wasn't large enough,
but I was wrong.


From the ERR I quotes, here is the tip off:

Documents and Settings

This computer was an upgrade from XP to W7. I thought I
had excised all of the XP paths from Cobian, but I missed
one. Since M$O (Outlook) now stores its .pst file in
Documents and I am backing up Documents, I just removed
that bad backup path.

And what threw me off was that she has two backup
tasks: one to an external hidden partition drive and one
to and FTP server. The external drive task works fine.

Since I thought the files selected were identical,
I took another look at the external drive task. I had
corrected it over there, but not in the FTP backup.
Mumble, mumble.

Thank you for all the help! I wrote down all the links and
suggestions in my keepers file.


-T

On 03/17/2017 03:18 PM, T wrote:
f they
are paying you to support them then they should be using currently
support software, especially for business use. The software might still
be usable today but paying customers should be using support software.

Not necessarily so. They should be running what software meets
their needs. Some "supported" software is so crappy it brings tears
to my eyes. Hmmm. Think Windows Nein. Ever call M$'s tech support
line? The word "worthless" comes to mind. Ever hear XP is
unsupported and is so much more vulnerable to attack, even when
the actual number don't support it?

I go for what meets the need of the customer. I evaluate
each item individually. If paid/supported software works
best, then that is what I use. If open source works best,
then I use that.

And in my experience, with certain notable exceptions, open
source is far, far better supported than "paid" software.
And, to repeat, with notable exceptions.



Basically, what I am payed for is to know the difference.

T wrote:

I kept thinking my shadow file allocation wasn't large enough,
but I was wrong.

From the ERR I quotes, here is the tip off:

Documents and Settings

This computer was an upgrade from XP to W7. I thought I
had excised all of the XP paths from Cobian, but I missed
one. Since M$O (Outlook) now stores its .pst file in
Documents and I am backing up Documents, I just removed
that bad backup path.

And what threw me off was that she has two backup
tasks: one to an external hidden partition drive and one
to and FTP server. The external drive task works fine.

Since I thought the files selected were identical,
I took another look at the external drive task. I had
corrected it over there, but not in the FTP backup.
Mumble, mumble.

Thank you for all the help! I wrote down all the links and
suggestions in my keepers file.

-T

So the issue was that Outlook had its .pst file open during the backup
but VSS failed to provide a shadow copy of it? Hmmmmm. I know some
backup programs provide an add-on to Outlook so they can access the data
files from within Outlook (when it is running). I use Easeus ToDo Home.
Their docs mention a Mail Backup plan template (not available in their
free version) to let you backup the e-mails from Outlook. Don't know
how that works because I don't recall getting any errors on backing up
Outlook files (but I use EAS and IMAP so .pst files are not used -
although Outlook will still create a default one for your mail profile).
They don't mention having to use an Outlook add-on and there isn't one
installed in my Outlook 2016. So it looks like they rely on VSS to get
a shadow copy of any .pst file(s).

Alas, other than smashing outlook.exe with taskkill.exe, Outlook
provides no command line switches to request it to exit/unload.

As I recall, the Personal Folders Backup add-on from Microsoft won't run
in versions of Outlook beyond 2007. Some folks say it still works in
Outlook 2016. My recollection is that it hung on exit request from
Outlook, so a stub of outlook.exe hung around which interfered with the
next load of Outlook. It could be configured to do the backup on exit
from Outlook or at regular intervals.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/down...s.aspx?id=9003

However, if using IMAP or Exchange/ActiveSync protocols, the .pst file
isn't used but instead .ost files are used (which won't have much inside
them).

Or was the problem that you have an old backup folder still specified in
your backup plan but that folder no longer exists? I would think the
you would get a warning about a missing path or the program would just
skip a missing folder.

I don't how Cobian handles error status from FTP commands that it
submits to the FTP server. Is Cobian still using VSS for the [shadow]
files that it sends to the FTP server? Or is the VSS snapshot
unavailable to Cobian for it to send the bytes for the inuse files?

On 03/17/2017 07:29 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
So the issue was that Outlook had its .pst file open during the backup
but VSS failed to provide a shadow copy of it?

Hi Vanguard,

Actually no. The issue was that I had a defunct path
that came from XP. In W7, there kinda, sorta, is
a hidden almost kinda sorta works path to
C:\Documents and Setting
Good luck using it.

By using the proper W7's path'ing scheme, I was easily able to
back up Outlook's .pst file with Outlook open.
And Thunderbird's and Firefox's and QuickBucks, oops
QuickBook's, Excel's, Word's, yada, yada

Proper path is
c:\users\xxxx\Documents\Outlook
not
c:\Documents and Settings\users\xxx\Local settings\M$\M$O

And here is the kicker. I knew better! Mumble. You
think you see what you see. And I had double checked
it two days before. Mumble. Mumble.

Thank you for all the scholarly help.

-T

Just as an aside, how many years have you been doing this?
You are scary good at this stuff.

On 03/17/2017 07:29 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
However, if using IMAP or Exchange/ActiveSync protocols, the .pst file
isn't used but instead .ost files are used (which won't have much inside
them).

"... the customer has open (Outlook [she likes the calendar],
Thunderbird [she doesn't like the calendar], ..."

Fortunately, she is still using .pst for here calendar.
I hate those .pst files.

On 03/17/2017 07:29 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
I don't how Cobian handles error status from FTP commands that it
submits to the FTP server.

I quoted one at the start of this thread. It just
writes it into the log and goes on to the next file.

Is Cobian still using VSS for the [shadow]
files that it sends to the FTP server?

Absolutely!

Or is the VSS snapshot
unavailable to Cobian for it to send the bytes for the inuse files?

No it work beautifully with VSS when you give it the proper
directory names and not weird hidden links.

Cobian has a hard time pruning out files that have +++ (Thank
you Firefox!) in their file name. It can write them okay.
So I wrote a program to do the FTP pruning and other
housekeeping and I have Cobian call it.

My program has an interesting way of a sub calling itself
to dig down into the FTP file structure.

T wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

So the issue was that Outlook had its .pst file open during the backup
but VSS failed to provide a shadow copy of it?

Actually no. The issue was that I had a defunct path that came from
XP. In W7, there kinda, sorta, is a hidden almost kinda sorta works
path to C:\Documents and Setting

Microsoft created a junction (reparse point on an folder) for the old
"\Document and Settings" folder.

https://4sysops.com/archives/documen...ings-in-vista/

Alas, that junction seems screwed up. To see "\Documents and Settings"
folder, change the view settings in Windows Explorer to show (not hide)
system protected files. You'll see the folder but Windows Explorer
won't let you in there (access denied). By default, not even admins
have permissions to get into that folder. I have not tried putzing
around with that folder's permissions to see what happens if I could
navigate into the junction to see to where it points (i.e., to have it
redirect me to elsewhere and what's in there).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTFS_junction_point

I had some utilities to create junction points and go find them but
don't have them anymore. mklink showed up to make them so I didn't need
the old tools but I don't know how to easily find them using tools
included in Windows.

http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/ntfs_links_view.html

That gives info on junction points. Using that tool and right-clicking
to look at the properties for the "\Documents and Settings" junction,
its target is C:\Users. So it's pointing where it should but
permissions are screwed up. I can go into a command shell and enter:

C:
cd \
cd d (then hit tab)

and the d gets expanded to Documents and Settings. The cd command works
but once inside it is empty. No files or subfolders found there.

If you set "subfolders depth" to infinite, put in a starting path (like
C:\), and click the Go button, and wait, you'll see a large number of
junction or symbolic links used in NTFS. If found 102 on my host.

I had use junction points awhile ago to put entries into the Start menu
that would act like cascading menus. The problem back then was some
backup programs didn't understand junction points and would follow them.
The problem is you'd end up backing up the real folder and then hit the
junction pointing to that folder and then make a duplicate backup of the
same folder. In fact, junctions can be circular: a junction points to a
folder that has a junction pointing back to the first "folder" (which is
a junction) and the backup gets in a loop forever consuming storage
media backing up the same files over and over. I remember having to
check with the software authors that their backup program did NOT follow
junctions.

UPDATE:

While writing this post, I happened to run "dir /?" and notice you can
use "dir /al" to list reparse points. So I can get the 'dir' command to
list the "Documents and Settings" juntion (and I can see it in Windows
Explorer only if I unhide system protected files).

I think why it all looks empty inside when using the 'dir' command is
due to the same permission restrictions when trying to use Windows
Explorer to get in there. I have no idea why Microsoft did not give the
"\Documents and Settings" junction the same permissions as they give to
the \Users folder.