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#46
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internet exporer pullled by Microsoft?
On Sat, 1 Aug 2020 16:59:34 +0100, mechanic wrote:
That's as maybe, but on the other hand explain how a single strand RNA molecule virus with thousands of base pairs evolved a protected protein sheath with actual hooks on it to catch pipes in our respiratory system? Every sign of an engineered product. Hi mechanic, While you describe this particular virus incorrectly, I realized you likely meant that the trimeric spike proteins that hook into our cells (after activation by furin and ACE2) are on the viral envelope, not the protein sheath inside which is surrounding the rather large coiled up RNA strand, where that viral envelope derives from our own cells, so it's antigenically innocuous except for those key components of the spike protein itself. Assuming you had meant an accurate characterization of this particular virus, do you realize that there are six other almost exact similar coronaviruses, four of which cause from one tenth to about one third of all cases of the common cold? Also assuming you had meant an accurate characterization of this virus, where we'll all admit the RNA is huge in terms of most RNA (or DNA) viruses, do you realize that almost all human respiratory viruses fit some, most, or almost all of your characterizations? My point is that for you to make an extraordinary claim about the bio weapon aspect, you're gonna need extraordinary evidence - where your only evidence to date is that this virus is just like many respiratory viruses (which is to be expected). BTW, there ARE differences in this virus, which I've covered in other threads, but you didn't mention them. See also: o *Does a single person espousing the privacy sink covid trackers even know what a cytokine storm is?* https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/sAcXqAUyZ_U -- There are all types of people on Usenet... some of whom are well educated. |
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#47
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internet exporer pullled by Microsoft?
On Sat, 1 Aug 2020 16:55:15 -0700, T wrote:
I believe mechanic was speaking of the bio-weapons lab that this escaped from. Employees were known to have sold test animals to the wet markets rather than disposing of them properly. Maybe the lab got the initial virus from bat? This is old stuff - Ebola periodically escapes into the human population from time to time, apparently from host bats (the ones living in caves in Africa). What's interesting is the structure of this (Covid) particle, as I said, too clever to be explained by hand-waving evolution arguments. |
#48
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internet exporer pullled by Microsoft?
"mechanic" wrote
| That's as maybe, but on the other hand explain how a single strand RNA molecule virus with thousands of base pairs evolved a protected protein sheath with actual hooks on it to catch pipes in our respiratory system? Every sign of an engineered product. | | What's interesting is the structure of this (Covid) particle, as I | said, too clever to be explained by hand-waving evolution arguments. If you read the article you didn't link, you'll see that your alleged evil doctors would have got the idea from an existing virus, which of course develpoed via "impossible" genetic mutation: https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985 In other words, it had already evolved and could have spread from bats or something else. Scientists who made a similar bug were basing it on the existing one. I'm not saying it's impossible that the bug escaped from Chinese labs. The US is also doing dangerous experiments. Scientists are often narrow-minded people without a lot of common sense. But there's a difference between saying it's possible and saying it must have happened, based on flimsy, distorted bits of scientific data. Then you jump from there and impute motive: They weren't dumb, arrogant medical researchers. They must have been trying to make a bio-weapon. So you've gone from no evidence to certainty that the Chinese hatched an evil, world-threatening plot worthy of a James Bond movie. Once you go there you're getting into T's evangelical- inspired imitating of science to justify absolute nonsense. He just throws around quasi-scientific terminology to make his hysteria sound reasoned. Once you do that you're only fooling yourself, pulling the wool over your own eyes out of fear. If you said God did this to punish us for sex outside of marriage I'd say, "Well, I guess that's one theory". But when you try to use cartoon science to justify wild ideas, well that's just plum silly. |
#49
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internet exporer pullled by Microsoft?
In article , mechanic
wrote: On Sat, 1 Aug 2020 16:55:15 -0700, T wrote: I believe mechanic was speaking of the bio-weapons lab that this escaped from. Employees were known to have sold test animals to the wet markets rather than disposing of them properly. Maybe the lab got the initial virus from bat? This is old stuff - Ebola periodically escapes into the human population from time to time, apparently from host bats (the ones living in caves in Africa). What's interesting is the structure of this (Covid) particle, as I said, too clever to be explained by hand-waving evolution arguments. what's interesting is the bizarre conspiracy theories people come up with. sars-cov-2 originated in bats, going back many years. end of story. |
#50
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internet exporer pullled by Microsoft?
Mayayana wrote:
I'm not saying it's impossible that the bug escaped from Chinese labs. The US is also doing dangerous experiments. They must have been trying to make a bio-weapon. Too late. Your plot has already been used in the Stephen King novel The Stand. That escaped military bug killed 98% of the population (in gory King fashion of course). Good read if you have some time because the uncut version is near 1200 pages long... |
#51
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internet exporer pullled by Microsoft?
Mayayana posted:
"mechanic" wrote | That's as maybe, but on the other hand explain how a single strand RNA molecule virus with thousands of base pairs evolved a protected protein sheath with actual hooks on it to catch pipes in our respiratory system? Every sign of an engineered product. | | What's interesting is the structure of this (Covid) particle, as I | said, too clever to be explained by hand-waving evolution arguments. If you read the article you didn't link, you'll see that your alleged evil doctors would have got the idea from an existing virus, which of course develpoed via "impossible" genetic mutation: https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985 In other words, it had already evolved and could have spread from bats or something else. Scientists who made a similar bug were basing it on the existing one. I'm not saying it's impossible that the bug escaped from Chinese labs. The US is also doing dangerous experiments. Scientists are often narrow-minded people without a lot of common sense. But there's a difference between saying it's possible and saying it must have happened, based on flimsy, distorted bits of scientific data. Then you jump from there and impute motive: They weren't dumb, arrogant medical researchers. They must have been trying to make a bio-weapon. So you've gone from no evidence to certainty that the Chinese hatched an evil, world-threatening plot worthy of a James Bond movie. Once you go there you're getting into T's evangelical- inspired imitating of science to justify absolute nonsense. He just throws around quasi-scientific terminology to make his hysteria sound reasoned. Once you do that you're only fooling yourself, pulling the wool over your own eyes out of fear. If you said God did this to punish us for sex outside of marriage I'd say, "Well, I guess that's one theory". But when you try to use cartoon science to justify wild ideas, well that's just plum silly. Here are the FACTS which cannot be denied: Upon reports and verifications that the novel virus existed in Wuhan, China, the Chinese Communist Party restristed domestic travel to and from Wuhan. The CCP even arrested and relocated several scientists and/or doctors who were publicly sounding the alarm... Quickly, during and thereafter, came the Chinese Lunar New Year Holiday, a nationally-celebrated yearly event of about 15-days where all routine government and business activity are shut-down while a great majority of Chinese citizens travel... This year it was January 24 through March 7. The CCP maintained the domestic restrictions on travel to and from Wuhan, but they allowed - even encouraged - international travel, including to and from Wuhan, concomitant with the Lunar New Year Holiday. Whether or not this is an "engineered virus", as it's geograpical location and type of mutation indicates, the Chinese government's reckless response to the outbreak was malicious by defintion and disregarded all medical science globally in place to contain and control disease outbreaks... Like those that were applied for MERS, SARS, and the latest Ebola outbreaks. Of course, the most radical and virulent aspect of this outbreak, which started in Wuhan, China and has now become a global pandemic, is the characteristic of being contagious while its - human and other living things - hosts are asymptomatic for around 14-days... Then factor in the UN's World Health Organization January 14, 2020 official release that "Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan #China [CN flag]." (sic) https://twitter.com/who/status/1217043229427761152?lang=en This was in clear light of the FACT that the virus was spreading from human to human in the Wuhan area of China... It would have been a good time to quarantine the area, isloate the infected, and begin contact-tracing to confine the pathogen... BUT that would have required global cooperation which the Chinese government had summarily denied. This is CLEARLY China's doing! Not God's, not Karma's, not Fate's... The looming question is "What benefit will China gain before our USA government - packed with Democrats and RINOs who are tempted and corrupted by visions of Chinese commerce and steeped in Chinese government lobbyist money - figure out and mount an effacious defense of this Chinese attack on our national security and sovereignty?" -- I AM Bucky Breeder, (*(^; Resolve conflicts the American way : Rock - Paper - Scissors - VOTE OUT ALL DEMOCRATS TO SAVE THE USA .... and I approve this message! |
#52
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internet exporer pullled by Microsoft?
"123456789" wrote
| They must have been trying to make a bio-weapon. | | Too late. Your plot has already been used in the Stephen King novel The | Stand. That escaped military bug killed 98% of the population (in gory | King fashion of course). Good read if you have some time because the | uncut version is near 1200 pages long... I imagine that's probably almost a template plot. Years ago there was a Frank Herbert novel. I think it was the White Plague. A man's wife and child are killed by an IRA bomb. He creates a virus and seeds it on dollar bills. The virus makes men express sexual desire as violence. So if they like a woman they kill her. Most women are killed. The rest sneak around wearing potato sacks to avoid looking attractive. The scientist gets his revenge by having all wives pointlessly killed. A bit thin, but Frank Herbert was great with presenting the inner world of characters. |
#53
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internet exporer pullled by Microsoft?
On Sun, 02 Aug 2020 09:10:48 -0400, nospam wrote:
What's interesting is the structure of this (Covid) particle, as I said, too clever to be explained by hand-waving evolution arguments. what's interesting is the bizarre conspiracy theories people come up with. sars-cov-2 originated in bats, going back many years. end of story. Yes, good example of the hand-waving argument, no science or data behind it. |
#54
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internet exporer pullled by Microsoft?
On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 10:58:40 +0100, mechanic
wrote: On Sun, 02 Aug 2020 09:10:48 -0400, nospam wrote: What's interesting is the structure of this (Covid) particle, as I said, too clever to be explained by hand-waving evolution arguments. what's interesting is the bizarre conspiracy theories people come up with. sars-cov-2 originated in bats, going back many years. end of story. Yes, good example of the hand-waving argument, no science or data behind it. Do you want a table of references? -- Regards, Eric Stevens |
#55
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internet exporer pullled by Microsoft?
mechanic wrote:
On Sun, 02 Aug 2020 09:10:48 -0400, nospam wrote: What's interesting is the structure of this (Covid) particle, as I said, too clever to be explained by hand-waving evolution arguments. what's interesting is the bizarre conspiracy theories people come up with. sars-cov-2 originated in bats, going back many years. end of story. Yes, good example of the hand-waving argument, no science or data behind it. https://www.bbc.com/news/science-env...edium=facebook https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...418-9/fulltext Scientists from multiple countries have published and analysed genomes of the causative agent, severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2),1 and they overwhelmingly conclude that this coronavirus originated in wildlife,2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 , 8 , 9 , 10 as have so many other emerging pathogens No, I'm not going to read all ten for you. Paul |
#56
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internet exporer pullled by Microsoft?
In article , mechanic
wrote: What's interesting is the structure of this (Covid) particle, as I said, too clever to be explained by hand-waving evolution arguments. what's interesting is the bizarre conspiracy theories people come up with. sars-cov-2 originated in bats, going back many years. end of story. Yes, good example of the hand-waving argument, no science or data behind it. there's substantial science and data that shows sars-cov-2 originated in bats. end of story. there is *zero* evidence that it was manmade and is just another one of many ridiculous conspiracy theories. |
#57
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internet exporer pullled by Microsoft?
Paul posted:
mechanic wrote: On Sun, 02 Aug 2020 09:10:48 -0400, nospam wrote: What's interesting is the structure of this (Covid) particle, as I said, too clever to be explained by hand-waving evolution arguments. what's interesting is the bizarre conspiracy theories people come up with. sars-cov-2 originated in bats, going back many years. end of story. Yes, good example of the hand-waving argument, no science or data behind it. https://www.bbc.com/news/science-env...ource=dlvr.it& utm_medium=facebook https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...140-6736%2820% 2930418-9/fulltext Scientists from multiple countries have published and analysed genomes of the causative agent, severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2),1 and they overwhelmingly conclude that this coronavirus originated in wildlife FYI: That link very much appears to be Chinese propaganda! We already know mainstream media is in the pocket of Chinese lobbyists and Globalist business interests... Do they explain the advanced laboratory in Wuhan as simply a coincidence? The assertion that the virus originated in bats does NOT obviate the plausibility that the virus was genetically altered - especially with regards to its human-transmission while its host is asymptomatic. There is no concrete evidence that the Chinese government unleashed the virus deliberately. There is a mountain of evidence that the Chinese government sought to and are seeking to advantage themselves using COVID-19 as leverage... There is also a failure to adequately explain WHY proximate Chinese experts were imprisoned and censured when they tried to timely report the novel outbreak... There is also a failure to adequately explain WHY Chinese health experts failed to exercise reasonable diligence with containing the outbreak to Wuhan until the pathogen could be identified and mapped... There is also a failure to adequately explain WHY China launched on a propaganda campaign - even claiming the USA military had planted the virus... Also, for those of you who either remember or can read a history book or know how to bang Google until you get uncensored information, reflect on the numbers of "medical experts" who testifified before Congress, to the media, and published numerous white papers and/or studies purporting and claiming that there was NO CONNECTION between cigarette smoking and cancer... "Conspiracy theory/theorists" is NOT a viable or relevant argument! Failure to make a reasonable connection between two or more connected facts is a mental disorder... It's called "detached from reality". Or "retarded". It really is not up to "us" to "prove" a connection. The burden is on the opposition to "prove" there is NO connection to the virus, its spread, and China's complicity thereto! For WHATEVER reason[s]... There are only three (3) types of [valid] arguments: "ethos", "pathos", and "logos". "Ethos is advanced by asserting that [some authority] states [a given position]. "Ex cathedra" is advanced by [some authority] stating [a given position][over which subject matter they claim dominion]. "Pathos" is advanced by appealing to emotion rather than reason. "Logos" is advanced by citing logic, reason, and rationality. None of the three are absolutely "bad" or "good". Any of the three could be valid, considering the circumstances. Usually, those who would deceive you - or those who are deceived - deploy ethos and/or pathos arguments because logos would reveal the error of their position[s]. Make no mistake, logos arguments can be deceitful or deceiving if the facts cited are incorrect or distorted by context or anchronism. "Post hoc" logic ["post hoc ergo proctor hoc"; two things happened one after the other ergo the first thing caused the second thing] is an example of a logos argument which might be proved or disproved by gathering all the relevant facts or applying simple common sense reasoning. Sometimes, it is a good call. Many times, it is not. Most Americans, especially those who graduated high school after 1971 [when Brown vs. Board of Education started to show its toll on America's public school systems] and were never exposed to a common curriculum formal course called 'Critical Thinking' [which can now only be accessed in certain Ivy League Universities and some advanced military training], emote a "decision" then sytematically gather selective "facts" to support that "decision". They believe they are "thinking" because they suspect they are using the material in their brain holes to come to these "conclusions"... But they are NOT exercising any discipline or methodology to filter information and assimilate it correctly before analyzing it and narrowing down the options to consider as viable conclusions. "Thinking" is NOT an inate human process! It must be taught, learned, developed, practiced, refined... It is a skill and a journey... Coincidence? The COVID-19 virus has ALL the characteristics of an engineered virus AND began in a geographical area where the Chinese have an advanced laboratory which experiments with viruses THEN the Chinese government went to extreme efforts to conceal its existence THEN the Chinese government went to extreme efforts to deflect responsibility onto the USA government THEN the Chinese government went to extreme efforts to allow the virus to spread globally and NOW the Chinese government is going to extreme efforts through a massive propaganda campaign to explain away the virus asserting that it is a naturally occurring event... BECAUSE they purport that the original virus originated in bats... It's a little bit late to be conjuring-up some set of ex cathedra and/or ethos assertions that would contradict all existing factual and anecdotal evidence to the contrary. ADDITIONALLY, the pattern of MALIGN BEHAVIOR by the Chinese government tends to abundantly show "mens rea" [a guilty mind]. WHERE is the PROOF that the virus - IN ITS PRESENT STATE [human to human transmission while asymptomatic] - existed PRIOR to the Wuhan, China outbreak and subsequent global pandemic? , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 , 8 , 9 , 10 as have so many other emerging pathogens Name ONE (1) "emerging pathogen" that has had any government conspire to deny, conceal, obfuscate, misdirect blame, defy international procedure[s], mount an extensive and expensive propaganda campaign, and otherwise facilitate the spread thereof... No, I'm not going to read all ten for you. Paul The rhetorical question for discerning readers is "What type of argument is 'conspiracy theory/theorists'?" HINT: It is a combination of ethos and pathos with a dash of inductive and abductive reasoning which absolutely ignores the fact-set while relying upon a shallow attempt at 'peer pressure persuasion'. Hope this helps. -- I AM Bucky Breeder, (*(^; Resolve conflicts the American way : Rock-Paper-Scissors - Snacking on Tide Pods Destroys Democrats' Brains .... and I approve this message! |
#58
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internet exporer pullled by Microsoft?
On Mon, 03 Aug 2020 06:41:35 -0400, Paul wrote:
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...418-9/fulltext Scientists from multiple countries have published and analysed genomes of the causative agent, severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2),1 and they overwhelmingly conclude that this coronavirus originated in wildlife,2 [snip] But who trusts the Lancet theses days (after the MMR fiasco)? Any cites from Nature? I'm afraid the ravings of the UseNet community don't really cut it. To be fair even UseNet sometimes gets it right. |
#59
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internet exporer pullled by Microsoft?
On Mon, 03 Aug 2020 07:31:02 -0400, nospam wrote:
there's substantial science and data that shows sars-cov-2 originated in bats. end of story. there is *zero* evidence that it was manmade and is just another one of many ridiculous conspiracy theories. They forgot to stamp the branding on it! Next time they will get it right. |
#60
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internet exporer pullled by Microsoft?
Paul wrote:
mechanic wrote: On Sun, 02 Aug 2020 09:10:48 -0400, nospam wrote: What's interesting is the structure of this (Covid) particle, as I said, too clever to be explained by hand-waving evolution arguments. what's interesting is the bizarre conspiracy theories people come up with. sars-cov-2 originated in bats, going back many years. end of story. Yes, good example of the hand-waving argument, no science or data behind it. https://www.bbc.com/news/science-env...edium=facebook Â*Â* https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...418-9/fulltext Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Scientists from multiple countries have published and analysed Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* genomes of the causative agent, severe acute respiratory syndrome Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2),1Â* and they overwhelmingly conclude Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* that this coronavirus originated in wildlife,2 ,Â* 3 ,Â* 4 ,Â* 5 ,Â* 6 ,Â* 7 ,Â* 8 ,Â* 9 ,Â* 10 as have so many other emerging pathogens No, I'm not going to read all ten for you. Just face it, you are not going to convince these idiots to do the simple "tried and true" things. Wear face masks, social distance, extra care hygiene, to control spread of a *communicable* disease a) in order NOT to overwhelm the healthcare system b) get REAL testing and tracing in place to KNOW who has it and who doesn't c) buy time for vaccine and/or cure Because of a stubborn minority we are doomed to take the stupid route where we can be the country that kills the most people and does extra damage to our economy as a bonus. If only if the dumb ones would get infected... -- Take care, Jonathan ------------------- LITTLE WORKS STUDIO http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com |
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