How do "Big Name" machines respond to generic XP OEM disks?

Actually, after considerable digging, I've decided I may be going about
this whole project backwards.

Considering some of the staggering price differences between the
various customizable options -- Falcon Northwest, Alienware, Velocity
Micro, IBuyPower, Dell, etc, etc, and the monolithic jobs like Sony,
HP, Gateway, (and the Powerspec which seems to exist in some sort of
bizarre netherworld between a true clone and a monolith) the thought
crosses my mind it might actually be CHEAPER to buy one of the
monolithic machines AND an XP OEM disc (even the full boxed verson in
addition to a monolith is cheaper than some of the configs I have run)
and round up the rest of the hardware drivers from the net.

QUESTION ... obviously there are mechanisms in the restore discs and
the restore partitions of the monoliths to prevent them from being
installed on another machine, but do any of them have any mechanisms to
allow a new full copy of XP to be loaded on THEM?

Thanks!

Ax

wrote:
Actually, after considerable digging, I've decided I may be going about
this whole project backwards.

Considering some of the staggering price differences between the
various customizable options -- Falcon Northwest, Alienware, Velocity
Micro, IBuyPower, Dell, etc, etc, and the monolithic jobs like Sony,
HP, Gateway, (and the Powerspec which seems to exist in some sort of
bizarre netherworld between a true clone and a monolith) the thought
crosses my mind it might actually be CHEAPER to buy one of the
monolithic machines AND an XP OEM disc (even the full boxed verson in
addition to a monolith is cheaper than some of the configs I have run)
and round up the rest of the hardware drivers from the net.

QUESTION ... obviously there are mechanisms in the restore discs and
the restore partitions of the monoliths to prevent them from being
installed on another machine, but do any of them have any mechanisms to
allow a new full copy of XP to be loaded on THEM?

Thanks!

Ax


1) You should look up "monolith" and find out what it means.

2) There's no reason you shouldn't be able to install your own version
of XP, assuming that any special drivers are on a separate disk and not
on the OEM "restore" disk. Even if that's the case, it's usually
possible to download the drivers, if necessary. You should be aware that
installation of an OS not provided by the OEM could void the warranty.

Dell, HP, Gateway, Emachine etc all come with the OEM version of XP
installed, why would you want to go through the additional expense of buying
yet another version of XP? True you don't get the OEM XP cd but you have a
way of restoring back to original. I don't see how having the actual cd
would buy you anything.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Actually, after considerable digging, I've decided I may be going about
this whole project backwards.

Considering some of the staggering price differences between the
various customizable options -- Falcon Northwest, Alienware, Velocity
Micro, IBuyPower, Dell, etc, etc, and the monolithic jobs like Sony,
HP, Gateway, (and the Powerspec which seems to exist in some sort of
bizarre netherworld between a true clone and a monolith) the thought
crosses my mind it might actually be CHEAPER to buy one of the
monolithic machines AND an XP OEM disc (even the full boxed verson in
addition to a monolith is cheaper than some of the configs I have run)
and round up the rest of the hardware drivers from the net.

QUESTION ... obviously there are mechanisms in the restore discs and
the restore partitions of the monoliths to prevent them from being
installed on another machine, but do any of them have any mechanisms to
allow a new full copy of XP to be loaded on THEM?

Thanks!

Ax

I have a feeling that you are a troll in the making..

A clone is any computer based on X86 architecture other than IBM, so forget
this 'true clone' jive.. all computer vendors will sell/supply OEM operating
systems.. OEM is cheaper that retail versions..

The major manufacturers offer stylish, reasonably well balanced systems..
they have extensive service networks.. they make ranges of computers to suit
performance and pocket.. the essence is that they try to provide the
complete computing solution..

Mom & Pop vendors tend to put cheap parts in cheap cases.. you get what you
pay for in this world..

You can also build your own.. it is not difficult, is no cheaper, but at
least you know what has gone into it..

Future-proofing is anathema to the world of computers.. technology can make
quantum leaps overnight, kicking even the best of today's systems firmly
into touch..

Just buy a computer that you can afford, and quit stalling..


wrote in message
oups.com...
Actually, after considerable digging, I've decided I may be going about
this whole project backwards.

Considering some of the staggering price differences between the
various customizable options -- Falcon Northwest, Alienware, Velocity
Micro, IBuyPower, Dell, etc, etc, and the monolithic jobs like Sony,
HP, Gateway, (and the Powerspec which seems to exist in some sort of
bizarre netherworld between a true clone and a monolith) the thought
crosses my mind it might actually be CHEAPER to buy one of the
monolithic machines AND an XP OEM disc (even the full boxed verson in
addition to a monolith is cheaper than some of the configs I have run)
and round up the rest of the hardware drivers from the net.

QUESTION ... obviously there are mechanisms in the restore discs and
the restore partitions of the monoliths to prevent them from being
installed on another machine, but do any of them have any mechanisms to
allow a new full copy of XP to be loaded on THEM?

Thanks!

Ax

"Mike Hall" wrote in message
...
I have a feeling that you are a troll in the making..

A clone is any computer based on X86 architecture other than IBM, so
forget this 'true clone' jive.. all computer vendors will sell/supply OEM
operating systems.. OEM is cheaper that retail versions..

The major manufacturers offer stylish, reasonably well balanced systems..
they have extensive service networks.. they make ranges of computers to
suit performance and pocket.. the essence is that they try to provide the
complete computing solution..

Mom & Pop vendors tend to put cheap parts in cheap cases.. you get what
you pay for in this world..

You can also build your own.. it is not difficult, is no cheaper, but at
least you know what has gone into it..

Future-proofing is anathema to the world of computers.. technology can
make quantum leaps overnight, kicking even the best of today's systems
firmly into touch..

Just buy a computer that you can afford, and quit stalling..

You are very uninformed.....

"Frank" wrote in message
...

"Mike Hall" wrote in message
...
I have a feeling that you are a troll in the making..

A clone is any computer based on X86 architecture other than IBM, so
forget this 'true clone' jive.. all computer vendors will sell/supply OEM
operating systems.. OEM is cheaper that retail versions..

The major manufacturers offer stylish, reasonably well balanced systems..
they have extensive service networks.. they make ranges of computers to
suit performance and pocket.. the essence is that they try to provide the
complete computing solution..

Mom & Pop vendors tend to put cheap parts in cheap cases.. you get what
you pay for in this world..

You can also build your own.. it is not difficult, is no cheaper, but at
least you know what has gone into it..

Future-proofing is anathema to the world of computers.. technology can
make quantum leaps overnight, kicking even the best of today's systems
firmly into touch..

Just buy a computer that you can afford, and quit stalling..

You are very uninformed.....


Frank

I didn't say that the major manufacturer stuff was good or any better or
that their support and service network is any good or better.. I chose not
to pass judgement as it is up to the buyer to make a final choice..

Personally, I wouldn't touch major manufacturer or mom&pop stuff, preferring
to build my own.. so where am I so uninformed?..

Mike

wrote in message

Considering some of the staggering price differences between the
various customizable options -- Falcon Northwest, Alienware, Velocity
Micro, IBuyPower, Dell, etc, etc, and the monolithic jobs like Sony,
HP, Gateway, (and the Powerspec which seems to exist in some sort of
bizarre netherworld between a true clone and a monolith) the thought
crosses my mind it might actually be CHEAPER to buy one of the
monolithic machines AND an XP OEM disc (even the full boxed verson in
addition to a monolith is cheaper than some of the configs I have run)
and round up the rest of the hardware drivers from the net.

You're about to make a costly purchase. If you can't be bothered to
figure out what makes some PCs cost more than others, and are buying
on price alone, then you deserve what you will get.

Paying MS for 2 licenses for one PC is a bad answer - basically, you
are saying that gouging the user is a good way to make more money.

I guess it's Darwin take the hindmost, though...



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The rights you save may be your own
------------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -

cquirke (MVP Win9x) wrote:

You're about to make a costly purchase. If you can't be bothered to
figure out what makes some PCs cost more than others, and are buying
on price alone, then you deserve what you will get.

Paying MS for 2 licenses for one PC is a bad answer - basically, you
are saying that gouging the user is a good way to make more money.

I guess it's Darwin take the hindmost, though...

Check this out though:

The machine in question is a Powerspec 9262 -- 3.4 GHz, 1 GB RAM, 250
GB HD, 16X DVD-ROM, 16X dual layer DVD+R 8X DVD-R, XP Pro. Sticker is
$1299 - $100 rebate = $1199 + $150 for an XP OEM disk = $1349.

Now, it's almost impossible to do an apples & apples as it looks like
Dell pretty much forces you into a 15 month subscription to either
Norton or McAfee, but, near as I can tell, the closest config that I
could come up with on Dell was on a Dimension 8400 which came out to
$1768.

$1768 - $1349 = $419 that I'm ahead even though I had to pay that
S.O.B. Gates for two licenses for the same box.

Ax

On 3 Jan 2005 08:12:27 -0800, wrote:

The machine in question is a Powerspec 9262 -- 3.4 GHz, 1 GB RAM, 250
GB HD, 16X DVD-ROM, 16X dual layer DVD+R 8X DVD-R, XP Pro. Sticker is
$1299 - $100 rebate = $1199 + $150 for an XP OEM disk = $1349.

Motherboard chipset? Proprietary parts? Micro-ATX? PSU power
rating? Integrated SVGA with no slot for alternate?

If it's the wrong spec, the price is irrelevant.

I'd forget the lame bland stuff entirely, and find someone clued
enough to assemble the spec you want. I doubt very much whether
there'd be much price variance, assuming the spec was similar. Simply
having the same processor, RAM, HD and peripherals is not "similar".



--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - -
Tech Support: The guys who follow the
'Parade of New Products' with a shovel.
--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - -

cquirke (MVP Win9x) wrote:
On 3 Jan 2005 08:12:27 -0800, wrote:

The machine in question is a Powerspec 9262 -- 3.4 GHz, 1 GB RAM,
250
GB HD, 16X DVD-ROM, 16X dual layer DVD+R 8X DVD-R, XP Pro. Sticker
is
$1299 - $100 rebate = $1199 + $150 for an XP OEM disk = $1349.

Motherboard chipset? Proprietary parts? Micro-ATX? PSU power
rating? Integrated SVGA with no slot for alternate?

If it's the wrong spec, the price is irrelevant.

I'd forget the lame bland stuff entirely, and find someone clued
enough to assemble the spec you want. I doubt very much whether
there'd be much price variance, assuming the spec was similar.
Simply
having the same processor, RAM, HD and peripherals is not "similar".

That's just it ... near as I can tell, on the hardware side anyway,
this beast actually is a "true clone", or certainly as close as I have
seen in an "off-the-shelf" box ...

http://www.powerspec.com/systems/sys...selection=9262

Motherboard is at full ATX -- Intel D915PGN -- 4 DDR-400 RAM slots,
Intel 915P chipset.

Now, it has some sort of on-board "Realtek ALC860" on-board sound that
I haven't been able to figure out how to disable in BIOS, but I'm
guessing XP would recognize a Soundblaster Audigy or something if I
installed one.

It has a PCI Express X16 video slot that came from the factory with an
nVidia GeForce FX 5300 128MB video card which I swapped out for an ATI
X600 All-In-Wonder card almost immediately and it seems to be working
perfectly.

Nope ... looks like this box really is a clone ... only problem is that
the system restore disk has no ability to go into fdisk or do any other
customization that I have been able to see -- to say nothing of forcing
an installation of some sort of Norton trial version or something of
the sort.

So near and yet so far ...

Ax

wrote in message
oups.com...

cquirke (MVP Win9x) wrote:
On 3 Jan 2005 08:12:27 -0800, wrote:
That's just it ... near as I can tell, on the hardware side anyway,
this beast actually is a "true clone", or certainly as close as I have
seen in an "off-the-shelf" box ...

http://www.powerspec.com/systems/sys...selection=9262

Motherboard is at full ATX -- Intel D915PGN -- 4 DDR-400 RAM slots,
Intel 915P chipset.

Now, it has some sort of on-board "Realtek ALC860" on-board sound that
I haven't been able to figure out how to disable in BIOS, but I'm
guessing XP would recognize a Soundblaster Audigy or something if I
installed one.

It has a PCI Express X16 video slot that came from the factory with an
nVidia GeForce FX 5300 128MB video card which I swapped out for an ATI
X600 All-In-Wonder card almost immediately and it seems to be working
perfectly.

Nope ... looks like this box really is a clone ... only problem is that
the system restore disk has no ability to go into fdisk or do any other
customization that I have been able to see -- to say nothing of forcing
an installation of some sort of Norton trial version or something of
the sort.

This is about as close as you are going to get to a home built without
actually doing the labor. That realtek AC97 sound is just as good as
my Audigy if not better. They do not tell what is the make of the
motherboard. It has an Intel chipset but it is not an Intel board.
All mainboards are not created equally.

Frank wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

cquirke (MVP Win9x) wrote:
On 3 Jan 2005 08:12:27 -0800, wrote:
That's just it ... near as I can tell, on the hardware side anyway,
this beast actually is a "true clone", or certainly as close as I
have
seen in an "off-the-shelf" box ...

http://www.powerspec.com/systems/sys...selection=9262

Motherboard is at full ATX -- Intel D915PGN -- 4 DDR-400 RAM slots,
Intel 915P chipset.

Now, it has some sort of on-board "Realtek ALC860" on-board sound
that
I haven't been able to figure out how to disable in BIOS, but I'm
guessing XP would recognize a Soundblaster Audigy or something if I
installed one.

It has a PCI Express X16 video slot that came from the factory with
an
nVidia GeForce FX 5300 128MB video card which I swapped out for an
ATI
X600 All-In-Wonder card almost immediately and it seems to be
working
perfectly.

Nope ... looks like this box really is a clone ... only problem is
that
the system restore disk has no ability to go into fdisk or do any
other
customization that I have been able to see -- to say nothing of
forcing
an installation of some sort of Norton trial version or something
of
the sort.

This is about as close as you are going to get to a home built
without
actually doing the labor. That realtek AC97 sound is just as good as
my Audigy if not better. They do not tell what is the make of the
motherboard. It has an Intel chipset but it is not an Intel board.
All mainboards are not created equally.

Oh, it's an Intel motherboard alright: D915PGN.

Only tricky area seems to be with that onboard sound ... can't seem to
find the gain control for the microphone for one thing, and for another
Mandrake doesn't seem to want to work with it -- and no other version
of Linux will run on this box with the exception of Knoppix and it also
can't access the on-board sound.

Ax

wrote in message
oups.com...

Frank wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

cquirke (MVP Win9x) wrote:
On 3 Jan 2005 08:12:27 -0800, wrote:
That's just it ... near as I can tell, on the hardware side anyway,
this beast actually is a "true clone", or certainly as close as I
have
seen in an "off-the-shelf" box ...

http://www.powerspec.com/systems/sys...selection=9262

Motherboard is at full ATX -- Intel D915PGN -- 4 DDR-400 RAM slots,
Intel 915P chipset.

Now, it has some sort of on-board "Realtek ALC860" on-board sound
that
I haven't been able to figure out how to disable in BIOS, but I'm
guessing XP would recognize a Soundblaster Audigy or something if I
installed one.

It has a PCI Express X16 video slot that came from the factory with
an
nVidia GeForce FX 5300 128MB video card which I swapped out for an
ATI
X600 All-In-Wonder card almost immediately and it seems to be
working
perfectly.

Nope ... looks like this box really is a clone ... only problem is
that
the system restore disk has no ability to go into fdisk or do any
other
customization that I have been able to see -- to say nothing of
forcing
an installation of some sort of Norton trial version or something
of
the sort.

This is about as close as you are going to get to a home built
without
actually doing the labor. That realtek AC97 sound is just as good as
my Audigy if not better. They do not tell what is the make of the
motherboard. It has an Intel chipset but it is not an Intel board.
All mainboards are not created equally.

Oh, it's an Intel motherboard alright: D915PGN.

Only tricky area seems to be with that onboard sound ... can't seem to
find the gain control for the microphone for one thing, and for another
Mandrake doesn't seem to want to work with it -- and no other version
of Linux will run on this box with the exception of Knoppix and it also
can't access the on-board sound.

That is a pretty new chipset for Linux. The 865P were not stable until
2.4.20.
Also I have a Gigabyte 865PE that uses a Realtek AC for windows but with
Debian it picks it up as an Intel i810_audio + ac97_codec. Do a lspci see
if anything is unknown. This is another reason that I stick with Debian.
If it
don't work, its not stable yet.
good luck

On 4 Jan 2005 08:16:46 -0800, wrote:
cquirke (MVP Win9x) wrote:
On 3 Jan 2005 08:12:27 -0800, wrote:

The machine in question is a Powerspec 9262 -- 3.4 GHz, 1 GB RAM,
250G HD, 16X DVD-ROM, 16X dual layer DVD+R 8X DVD-R, XP Pro.
Sticker $1299 - $100 rebate = $1199 + $150 for an XP OEM disk = $1349.

Motherboard chipset? Proprietary parts? Micro-ATX? PSU power
rating? Integrated SVGA with no slot for alternate?

If it's the wrong spec, the price is irrelevant.

I'd forget the lame bland stuff entirely, and find someone clued
enough to assemble the spec you want. Simply having the
same processor, RAM, HD and peripherals is not "similar".

That's just it ... near as I can tell, on the hardware side anyway,
this beast actually is a "true clone"

We clone builders prefer "generic" ;-)

It's a more accurate term anyway, given that IBM ceased to be the
standard when they tried to steamroller us into PS/2. Since then
there has been no reference system to "clone" from; instead there are
standards such as ATX, PCI etc. to which standard designs should
conform. As long as there's no inescapable over-integration (e.g.
mobo with no AGP or PCI Express slots, etc.) you should be OK.

Which isn't to say that proprietary blues no longer exist. Some
vendors will break standards to create brand lock-in.

Motherboard is at full ATX -- Intel D915PGN -- 4 DDR-400 RAM slots,
Intel 915P chipset.

Nice :-)

Now, it has some sort of on-board "Realtek ALC860" on-board sound that
I haven't been able to figure out how to disable in BIOS, but I'm
guessing XP would recognize a Soundblaster Audigy or something if I
installed one.

I reckon so, yes. On-board audio is pretty standard today, and is
usually adequate for most purposes. About the only purposes an
off-the-peg sound card may be better for, are hard-core gaming, and
possibly multi-speaker theater sound - and I suspect Intel's new sound
standards will handle the latter, as long as there are enough outgoing
sockets for all the speakers involved.

Nope ... looks like this box really is a clone ... only problem is that
the system restore disk has no ability to go into fdisk or do any other
customization that I have been able to see -- to say nothing of forcing
an installation of some sort of Norton trial version or something

Yep. A large brand can build nice standard PCs and then screw you
with a needlessly-crippled "special" OS CD. I can see no reason for
them to do that other than help them duck support calls ("No, it's not
possible, you're stuffed mate" is a shorter call than "OK; here's how
to write a response file...") or to get cheaper pricing from MS.

Why might MS offer cheaper pricing for a crippled OS CD? Presumably
because crippled CDs make piracy more difficult.



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Cats have 9 lives, which makes them
ideal for experimentation!
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