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#1
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Restoring old gmail
As I mentioned in previous emails I am very disappointed in the new Gmail
that installed itself very recently. Extremely slow on my XP system. A previous such install included the option to revert to the 'classic' gmail. This one doesn't. I tried Mozilla support but there seems to be no option to ask them for such information. Can't find a Gmail or Mozilla newsgroup that seems appropriate. Google hasn't turned up anything using the search phrases I tried. Maybe it's just me. Any suggestions? YIA -- I love a good meal! That's why I don't cook. |
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#2
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Restoring old gmail
KenK wrote:
As I mentioned in previous emails I am very disappointed in the new Gmail that installed itself very recently. Extremely slow on my XP system. A previous such install included the option to revert to the 'classic' gmail. This one doesn't. I tried Mozilla support but there seems to be no option to ask them for such information. Can't find a Gmail or Mozilla newsgroup that seems appropriate. Google hasn't turned up anything using the search phrases I tried. Maybe it's just me. Any suggestions? YIA Can you show us a web picture of this thing ? Gmail is a web mail product. It also has options for POP3 or IMAP, and those interfaces allow the usage of Thunderbird perhaps. You talk of something being "installed", which implies a POP3 or IMAP client. Some identifying details would be nice. The web page where it was downloaded from, or at least a picture of what it looks like, to try to confirm what kind of flora or fauna is involved. With web mail as the option, they can change the source code (JS/HTML) on the server end, on a moments notice, and we don't refer to that as "installing", as you're just viewing whatever content they splattered on the web page. There was some talk of "bots" being added to GMail, that could auto-answer incoming mails. Perhaps that's the feature that is dragging down the web page you're looking at ? If the tool has an "about:" entry, the info in there might tell us the client type being used. Paul |
#3
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Restoring old gmail
Paul wrote in news
KenK wrote: As I mentioned in previous emails I am very disappointed in the new Gmail that installed itself very recently. Extremely slow on my XP system. A previous such install included the option to revert to the 'classic' gmail. This one doesn't. I tried Mozilla support but there seems to be no option to ask them for such information. Can't find a Gmail or Mozilla newsgroup that seems appropriate. Google hasn't turned up anything using the search phrases I tried. Maybe it's just me. Any suggestions? YIA Can you show us a web picture of this thing ? I hate to show the home page; it has many of my correspondents, email titles, etc. Rather private info. Can't think of any other illustration, Notsdire how I'd send a picture of the page anyhow. Gmail is a web mail product. I just use it with my browser as a regular email app. What does web mail mean? It also has options for POP3 or IMAP, and those interfaces allow the usage of Thunderbird perhaps. You talk of something being "installed", which implies a POP3 or IMAP client. It replaced itself on my system with a new version without asking for permission. Some identifying details would be nice. The web page where it was downloaded from, I DLed it decades ago' Don't remember where. Somewhere I found with Google likely. As I rember, my sister suggested it as she was happy with it. I think I was using Eudora then. or at least a picture of what it looks like, to try to confirm what kind of flora or fauna is involved. With web mail as the option, they can change the source code (JS/HTML) on the server end, on a moments notice, and we don't refer to that as "installing", as you're just viewing whatever content they splattered on the web page. There was some talk of "bots" being added to GMail, that could auto-answer incoming mails. Perhaps that's the feature that is dragging down the web page you're looking at ? Could be. Not familiar with those bots. If the tool has an "about:" entry, the info in there might tell us the client type being used. Don't see an 'About'. Only one I see when Gmail on the screen is for Firefox. Paul -- I love a good meal! That's why I don't cook. |
#4
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Restoring old gmail
KenK wrote:
Paul wrote in news KenK wrote: As I mentioned in previous emails I am very disappointed in the new Gmail that installed itself very recently. Extremely slow on my XP system. A previous such install included the option to revert to the 'classic' gmail. This one doesn't. I tried Mozilla support but there seems to be no option to ask them for such information. Can't find a Gmail or Mozilla newsgroup that seems appropriate. Google hasn't turned up anything using the search phrases I tried. Maybe it's just me. Any suggestions? YIA Can you show us a web picture of this thing ? I hate to show the home page; it has many of my correspondents, email titles, etc. Rather private info. Can't think of any other illustration, Notsdire how I'd send a picture of the page anyhow. Gmail is a web mail product. I just use it with my browser as a regular email app. What does web mail mean? It also has options for POP3 or IMAP, and those interfaces allow the usage of Thunderbird perhaps. You talk of something being "installed", which implies a POP3 or IMAP client. It replaced itself on my system with a new version without asking for permission. Some identifying details would be nice. The web page where it was downloaded from, I DLed it decades ago' Don't remember where. Somewhere I found with Google likely. As I rember, my sister suggested it as she was happy with it. I think I was using Eudora then. or at least a picture of what it looks like, to try to confirm what kind of flora or fauna is involved. With web mail as the option, they can change the source code (JS/HTML) on the server end, on a moments notice, and we don't refer to that as "installing", as you're just viewing whatever content they splattered on the web page. There was some talk of "bots" being added to GMail, that could auto-answer incoming mails. Perhaps that's the feature that is dragging down the web page you're looking at ? Could be. Not familiar with those bots. If the tool has an "about:" entry, the info in there might tell us the client type being used. Don't see an 'About'. Only one I see when Gmail on the screen is for Firefox. Paul "Web email" here means that you need to go to the Google web site and simply use their own email web page located on their web site. It also means it is accessible on any computer (that can get on the web). This is in stark contrast to a POP3 email program like Outlook Express, which is "local" (locally installed) on that computer, and uses its own dedicated software program (e.g: Outlook or Outlook Express). |
#5
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Restoring old gmail
In message , KenK
writes: Paul wrote in news [] Can you show us a web picture of this thing ? I hate to show the home page; it has many of my correspondents, email titles, etc. Rather private info. Can't think of any other illustration, Well, you could blur them out, but that means using (and having) suitable image-modifying software. But never mind, as read on. Notsdire how I'd send a picture of the page anyhow. Use of the print screen button, followed by pasting into something, then uploading the resultant file to some file-sharing site. But read on. Gmail is a web mail product. I just use it with my browser as a regular email app. What does web mail mean? It means using your browser, as you are doing. It also has options for POP3 or IMAP, and those interfaces allow the usage of Thunderbird perhaps. You talk of something being "installed", which implies a POP3 or IMAP client. It replaced itself on my system with a new version without asking for permission. No, it didn't. What's on your machine is your browser (Firefox). What you think of as "gmail" is something running on a remote machine, which you access with your browser; basically, you're almost using your machine - with browser - as a "dumb terminal" to access software running on a remote server. (It might store passwords locally.) They've changed the software that's running on the remote server; you're still running the same Firefox you were before. Some identifying details would be nice. The web page where it was downloaded from, I DLed it decades ago' Don't remember where. Somewhere I found with Google likely. As I rember, my sister suggested it as she was happy with it. I think I was using Eudora then. Eudora _is_ a local client. Your sister persuaded you to switch to using webmail (running something on a remote server, accessed via your browser, rather than running something on your system). Switching back to an actual local client will involve a change for you, as you've got used to how the remote webmail software has changed gradually over the decades. But if the last change they've made isn't to your liking, it's probably worth going through that hardship - you would only have to do it once, and _you_ would thereafter have control of what it looked like and when and how it changed. Eudora works fine under XP (and 7), if that's to your liking - though it can't do certain encryptions that gmail like you to use these days, so to avoid getting nags from gmail from time to time, you'd probably be better going for Thunderbird - recent versions of that _can_ do some of the Encryptions gmail want. or at least a picture of what it looks like, to try to confirm what kind of flora or fauna is involved. With web mail as the option, they can change the source code (JS/HTML) on the server end, on a moments notice, and we don't refer to that as "installing", as you're just viewing whatever content they splattered on the web page. [] If the tool has an "about:" entry, the info in there might tell us the client type being used. Don't see an 'About'. Only one I see when Gmail on the screen is for Firefox. [] As you would. What you think of as the gmail software isn't on your machine, but on the remote server that you are using Firefox to access. Gmail (as you're currently using it) is just another web page (or rather website), though it's a complicated one. -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf What a strange illusion it is to suppose that beauty is goodness. -Leo Tolstoy, novelist and philosopher (1828-1910) |
#6
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Restoring old gmail
KenK wrote:
It replaced itself on my system with a new version without asking for permission. Yeah, it's web mail or "browser" mail, and you use your web browser. But I can see they've gone out of their way to make a mockery of logic and clear-headedness. Good work Googleans. The animations they use are attempting to make you think something is actually installing. It is not. It's still just a web page. https://i.postimg.cc/MpPsSBb1/puke_w..._interface.gif I don't think there will be a setting to return the old interface. Productivity isn't a thing anymore. Paul |
#7
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Restoring old gmail
On 4 Oct 2018 16:50:32 GMT, KenK wrote:
As I mentioned in previous emails I am very disappointed in the new Gmail that installed itself very recently. Gmail is not something that can be installed. Neither by you or by Google. It's a service. I'd say you installed malware. []'s -- Don't be evil - Google 2004 We have a new policy - Google 2012 |
#8
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Restoring old gmail
On 4 Oct 2018 18:07:20 GMT, KenK wrote:
Gmail is a web mail product. I just use it with my browser as a regular email app. What does web mail mean? If you use web mail Google can record every single thing you do there. How long you spend on each mail, what you read and what you don't. Even texts you might highlight to copy elsewhere. If you want a minimum of privacy do NOT use webmail. Mail clients like Sylpheed are there to protect you from profiling. []'s -- Don't be evil - Google 2004 We have a new policy - Google 2012 |
#9
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Restoring old gmail
KenK wrote:
As I mentioned in previous emails I am very disappointed in the new Gmail that installed itself very recently. Extremely slow on my XP system. A previous such install included the option to revert to the 'classic' gmail. This one doesn't. I tried Mozilla support but there seems to be no option to ask them for such information. Can't find a Gmail or Mozilla newsgroup that seems appropriate. Google hasn't turned up anything using the search phrases I tried. Maybe it's just me. Any suggestions? YIA And still you can't differentiate between using a local e-mail client and web browser. Gmail is a *service* to which you connect using some client (e-mail client or anything using standard e-mail protocols or Google's API or a web browser to their web site), not a program running on your computer. You never installed "Gmail" on your XP computer. Local e-mail clients using standard e-mail protocols (IMAP, SMTP) don't care a gnat's fart about what Google presents in a web page as their webmail client, so Mozilla can't provide you nor should they provide you with any help with Thunderbird regarding Google's change in the design of their webmail client. Mozilla can't help you even when using Firefox to connect to the Gmail service because it isn't Mozilla's responsibility to instruct on how to use anyone's web site. Google provided a switch when they had a new webmail client they wanted their users to beta test. Beta testing is over and now they've moved to their new webmail client. Since you are still back on Windows XP, you are limited as to which old versions of *web browser* you can use to connect to the Gmail *web site*. If you don't like the new webmail client from Google then use a local e-mail program, like Thunderbird or MS Outlook. Google moved forward. They can change anything they want at their web site. It's their property which they grant you permission to use for free. Don't know why you are stuck on using a web browser to do e-mail, and yet you mention Mozilla who provides a local e-mail client (Thunderbird). Maybe your mention of Mozilla means you use their old version 52, or even older, on Windows XP. If that's too slow, try an old version (49?) of Google Chrome that still supports Windows XP. |
#10
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Restoring old gmail
Paul wrote in news
KenK wrote: It replaced itself on my system with a new version without asking for permission. Yeah, it's web mail or "browser" mail, and you use your web browser. But I can see they've gone out of their way to make a mockery of logic and clear-headedness. Good work Googleans. The animations they use are attempting to make you think something is actually installing. It is not. It's still just a web page. https://i.postimg.cc/MpPsSBb1/puke_w..._interface.gif I don't think there will be a setting to return the old interface. Productivity isn't a thing anymore. Paul I think I'll switch to OE (Outlook Express) Classic. Know anything about this one? Good reviews I've looked at so far. I think this is a local email app. not web mail. TIA -- I love a good meal! That's why I don't cook. |
#11
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Restoring old gmail
KenK wrote:
Paul wrote in news KenK wrote: It replaced itself on my system with a new version without asking for permission. Yeah, it's web mail or "browser" mail, and you use your web browser. But I can see they've gone out of their way to make a mockery of logic and clear-headedness. Good work Googleans. The animations they use are attempting to make you think something is actually installing. It is not. It's still just a web page. https://i.postimg.cc/MpPsSBb1/puke_w..._interface.gif I don't think there will be a setting to return the old interface. Productivity isn't a thing anymore. Paul I think I'll switch to OE (Outlook Express) Classic. Know anything about this one? Good reviews I've looked at so far. I think this is a local email app. not web mail. TIA That is a pretty good clone of Outlook Express (if you buy the full version). But why would you use it instead of Outlook Express, which you already should have? The only possible reason I can see is if you are running Windows 7 or higher. |
#12
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Restoring old gmail
KenK wrote:
Paul wrote in news KenK wrote: It replaced itself on my system with a new version without asking for permission. Yeah, it's web mail or "browser" mail, and you use your web browser. But I can see they've gone out of their way to make a mockery of logic and clear-headedness. Good work Googleans. The animations they use are attempting to make you think something is actually installing. It is not. It's still just a web page. https://i.postimg.cc/MpPsSBb1/puke_w..._interface.gif I don't think there will be a setting to return the old interface. Productivity isn't a thing anymore. Paul I think I'll switch to OE (Outlook Express) Classic. Know anything about this one? Good reviews I've looked at so far. I think this is a local email app. not web mail. TIA https://www.oeclassic.com/download "Secure POP3 and SMTP (supports Gmail, Outlook, Yahoo and many others) with logging" There's no mention of IMAP, in case you need to connect that way at a future time. If there's an OE Classic trial version, I'd use the product for a short time, to iron out the kinks. Good email tools in 2018, should come pre-configured for popular services (gmail, hotmail, and so on), so you don't have to sit there figuring out whether you want port 995 or whatever. There is also no mention of oauth2, a web protocol based scheme that Google is supposed to use for some of their email. Google may complain that your tool is "less secure" if it doesn't use oauth2. By the looks of this, oauth2 may have been invented for mobile devices for some reason. Oauth2 sends user/pass to Google, then creates a "token" that the email application can use when contacting the server. https://security.stackexchange.com/q...-account/72371 But these are details that you can hardly solve simultaneously and have a usable tool. At some point, convenience and efficiency count for something, and the Google login can complain all it wants. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop3 "POP supports download-and-delete requirements for access to remote mailboxes (termed maildrop in the POP RFC's). Although most POP clients have an option to leave mail on server after download, e-mail clients using POP generally connect, retrieve all messages, store them on the client system, and delete them from the server. Other protocols, notably IMAP, provide more features of message management to typical mailbox operations." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intern...ccess_Protocol "IMAP supports both on-line and off-line modes of operation. E-mail clients using IMAP generally leave messages on the server until the user explicitly deletes them. This and other characteristics of IMAP operation allow multiple clients to manage the same mailbox." I'm showing you those two definitions, so you understand what a POP3 client buys you in terms of owning multiple computers. And with the look of that interface in Gmail now, I might have to wire something up myself :-) Paul |
#13
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Restoring old gmail
In message , KenK
writes: Paul wrote in news [] But I can see they've gone out of their way to make a mockery of logic and clear-headedness. Good work Googleans. The animations they use are attempting to make you think something is actually installing. It is not. It's still just a web page. [] I don't think there will be a setting to return the old interface. Productivity isn't a thing anymore. Paul I think I'll switch to OE (Outlook Express) Classic. Know anything about this one? Good reviews I've looked at so far. I think this is a local email app. not web mail. [] Some people seem happy with OE Classic - others say you need to buy the paid version, the free version being crippled in some ways. But as Bill an' coo says, if you're still on XP, you've got the real OE: it's called msimn.exe, so you don't need an imitation. However: since you're going to have to learn a new user interface anyway, switching to OE is probably not as future-proof as it might be: if/when your XP machine fails and you have to move to 7 anyway, you'd be in the hands of OE Classic, which may or may not continue to be supported (and I think the user base is not _that_ great). Since you're going to have to learn a new UI anyway, I'd recommend something else - probably Thunderbird. Of course, that - and most other email clients - may not be supported for ever, but it is somewhat better so at the moment - and also it has a fairly wide user base, so you should get good support if you need it. (Here for example - though there is a TB-specific support newsgroup on Mozilla's [free] server.) Also, I think recent versions of TB support oauth (early ones didn't), which OE doesn't (and Paul said he couldn't find any mention of oauth on OEC's pages either). Oauth is the thing gmail accept as "secure" (whether it is or not); you can use (what _they_ call) "insecure" clients such as OE(, possibly OE Classic), and early TBs, but they nag you about it (AIUI). -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf Well I wish you'd just tell me, rather than trying to engage my enthusiasm, because I haven't got one. (Marvin; first series, fit the fifth.) |
#14
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Restoring old gmail
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , KenK writes: Paul wrote in news [] But I can see they've gone out of their way to make a mockery of logic and clear-headedness. Good work Googleans. The animations they use are attempting to make you think something is actually installing. It is not. It's still just a web page. [] I don't think there will be a setting to return the old interface. Productivity isn't a thing anymore. Paul I think I'll switch to OE (Outlook Express) Classic. Know anything about this one? Good reviews I've looked at so far. I think this is a local email app. not web mail. [] Some people seem happy with OE Classic - others say you need to buy the paid version, the free version being crippled in some ways. But as Bill an' coo says, if you're still on XP, you've got the real OE: it's called msimn.exe, so you don't need an imitation. However: since you're going to have to learn a new user interface anyway, switching to OE is probably not as future-proof as it might be: if/when your XP machine fails and you have to move to 7 anyway, you'd be in the hands of OE Classic, which may or may not continue to be supported (and I think the user base is not _that_ great). Since you're going to have to learn a new UI anyway, I'd recommend something else - probably Thunderbird. Of course, that - and most other email clients - may not be supported for ever, but it is somewhat better so at the moment - and also it has a fairly wide user base, so you should get good support if you need it. (Here for example - though there is a TB-specific support newsgroup on Mozilla's [free] server.) Also, I think recent versions of TB support oauth (early ones didn't), which OE doesn't (and Paul said he couldn't find any mention of oauth on OEC's pages either). Oauth is the thing gmail accept as "secure" (whether it is or not); you can use (what _they_ call) "insecure" clients such as OE(, possibly OE Classic), and early TBs, but they nag you about it (AIUI). And Outlook Express (WinXP built-in) has secure socket layer for ports 995 and 587. The only question would be, whether the SSL/TLS standards have evolved past the version that Outlook Express supports. https://help.1and1.co.uk/mail-c65093...3-a792623.html https://joewein.net/blog/2018/07/04/...-ssl-protocol/ "Some of those users will have had a frustrating experience recently, when various mail servers stopped working for outbound mail in OE. Specifically, these are mail servers that use SSL on submission port 465 or 587 for SMTP." "One of these, TLS 1.0 which was conceived in 1999, has now been officially deprecated (made officially obsolete) as of the end of June 2018. Software now has to use more recent protocols, such as TLS 1.1, TLS 1.2 or the recently defined TLS 1.3. Unfortunately, TLS 1.0 is all that OE will speak. It does not understand TLS 1.1 or later. The only workaround ... is to use Stunnel, a tool for Windows or Linux that acts as a proxy." In some ways, it's really no different than your browser throwing up an error message, instead of the web page opening. Some of the same issues are involved. A product like OE Classic is only worth buying (bare minimum), if they keep the crypto suite up to date. You'd be well advised to find out whether OE Classic has TLS 1.3, as you wouldn't want to have to pay a second upgrade fee to get it. Eventually TLS 1.3 will be "all there is". Until it's cracked and TLS 1.4 comes out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_Layer_Security "TLS 1.3 spec (RFC 8446) was published in August 10, 2018." Which means it won't be a feature of OE Classic quite yet. Some softwares have been using a beta of TLS 1.3, but the beta wouldn't be official until the spec came out. Only a couple months ago. This is why our "comms" software sucks. The protocol changes ensure the browser breaks and the email breaks, and we can't run them forever "without tricks" like say, Stunnel. It means every email user has to work on "being a Rocket Scientist" :-) Paul |
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