XP OEM - Interesting conversation with MS employee

Kerry Brown wrote:
"kurttrail" wrote in
message ...
Ron Martell wrote:
kony wrote:

On Wed, 11 May 2005 18:35:54 -0500, "Carey Frisch [MVP]"
wrote:

Q. "How does MS justify that cost; maybe takes a quarter to make
for them?"

A. Microsoft spent billions of $$$ to develop Windows XP. The
cost to manufacturer the CDs is irrelevant since they expect
a return on their massive investment. Also, ongoing
improvements to Windows XP, in the form of "Service Packs"
and "hotfixes", are absorbed by Microsoft and are offered
free to the consumer.


You must be joking.
Cost is relative.

Good. You can pay the bills then.

I could even on only a 20% profit margin.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
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"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"


I have run several different businesses over the last 30 years. The
ones that had a 20% gross profit margin eventually failed. It takes
around 25% - 30% gross margin to break even for most businesses. You
would have to be incredibly efficient to survive on 20%. I can see
where software development may be different as there is less cost of
sales, but a lot more salaries and related expenses. This would skew
the gross margins to look much greater than what shows up on the
bottom line. If you are talking 20% net profit then that is after the
bills are paid and would be every good return indeed :-)

Kerry

http://www.ananova.com/business/stor...1827.html?menu

"By comparison, German software giant SAP is forecasting an overall
profit margin of something over 21% for this year."

And the last time I looked SAP is doing just fine.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

Leythos wrote:
In article ,
says...
Perhaps one could apply strictly objective (without reference to
values, ethics or morals) measures to the question of honesty and
integrity but any conclusions from such measures would be largely
empty of meaning and significance within a human society.

As was this thread - since it's entirely up to the individual as to
what they are willing to accept / do, nothing you or I say will
change it or make it right/wrong.

Even math is subjective in todays schools where a kid that scores a 99
on a test, with everyone else scoring a 20, causes a bell curve
situation that then increases the failing grade for the 20's to a C
which would be an 80+ score......

Then you've got the subjective laws where an Illegal Alien is given
legal coverage and rights, but when they mass in a protest they are
not arrested for being illegals - sort of subjective there too.

Everything is really black and white, Binary, but people tend to muddy
it up in order to "feel" better about things.

--

Everything is black and white when you are program to think that way.

Ethics is not mathamatics.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

Leythos wrote:
In article ,
says...
Ron Martell wrote:
"kurttrail" wrote:



Is it immoral to lie to a criminal, a conman, or to someone or
something that lie to you first? While two wrongs don't equal a
right, sometimes one needs to think outside of the box to protect
themselves from being abused by disreputable devices of others.

The essential component for any agreement is that both parties must
be satisfied that the other person has both the ability and the
intent to fulfill whatever obligations and requirements they commit
to as part of the agreement.

LOL! Then get people to agree to it prior to the sale!

But 99% of the users still wouldn't read it, would not care, would
still be blissfully ignorant.

But then both parties get to agree or disagree before the sale.
Pressing a button to continue an installation only means that the person
is trying to use what was already SOLD to them.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

In article ,
says...
Everything is black and white when you are program to think that way.

Only if you are programmed to think that there are acceptable excuses
for actions that should not have been taken.

Ethics is not mathamatics.

Sure they are - it's part of the cost/benefit model - if you have to
think about ethics then you are weighing what it will cost against what
you want to do, not what you should do.

--
--

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"kurttrail" wrote in message
...
Kerry Brown wrote:
"kurttrail" wrote in
message ...
Ron Martell wrote:
kony wrote:

On Wed, 11 May 2005 18:35:54 -0500, "Carey Frisch [MVP]"
wrote:

Q. "How does MS justify that cost; maybe takes a quarter to make
for them?"

A. Microsoft spent billions of $$$ to develop Windows XP. The
cost to manufacturer the CDs is irrelevant since they expect
a return on their massive investment. Also, ongoing
improvements to Windows XP, in the form of "Service Packs"
and "hotfixes", are absorbed by Microsoft and are offered
free to the consumer.


You must be joking.
Cost is relative.

Good. You can pay the bills then.

I could even on only a 20% profit margin.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"


I have run several different businesses over the last 30 years. The
ones that had a 20% gross profit margin eventually failed. It takes
around 25% - 30% gross margin to break even for most businesses. You
would have to be incredibly efficient to survive on 20%. I can see
where software development may be different as there is less cost of
sales, but a lot more salaries and related expenses. This would skew
the gross margins to look much greater than what shows up on the
bottom line. If you are talking 20% net profit then that is after the
bills are paid and would be every good return indeed :-)

Kerry

http://www.ananova.com/business/stor...1827.html?menu

"By comparison, German software giant SAP is forecasting an overall profit
margin of something over 21% for this year."

And the last time I looked SAP is doing just fine.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"


Thanks for the link. 86% operating profit is obscene (operating profit = net
profit before taxes). I had always assumed the high profit margins bandied
about for Microsoft was gross profits. I can't imagine running a business
with that high an operating profit. SAP's 21% operating profit is excellent
by most business standards. 21% is a very good return. Most business owners
are happy if they can meet or exceed the bank's prime rates or even make it
into the black. One problem with looking at operating profits with most
businesses is they may want to show a loss to avoid paying taxes. I guess
that isn't an option with businesses that profitable.

Kerry

In article ,
says...
But 99% of the users still wouldn't read it, would not care, would
still be blissfully ignorant.

But then both parties get to agree or disagree before the sale.
Pressing a button to continue an installation only means that the person
is trying to use what was already SOLD to them.

Wrong, pushing the button without reading the contents of the box it's
below is the same ignorant excuse, and it's not acceptable.

Answer me this - why does most of society look for ways to make excuses
for the ignorant/stupid? It's like the "Not guilty by reason of
insanity" defense - it should be "Guilty by reason of insanity".

If people are too ignorant/stupid to read a button click won't make any
difference. If you put up a 50' sign at Wallyworld with the licensing
details, 99% of all purchasers would never read it.

It's just ignorant people - ever read the ENTIRE financing agreement
when purchasing a car? I do, it's funny to watch the sales person get
flustered as you read EVERY word on both sides and all the other
documents too.

--
--

remove 999 in order to email me

"Leythos" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
But 99% of the users still wouldn't read it, would not care, would
still be blissfully ignorant.

But then both parties get to agree or disagree before the sale.
Pressing a button to continue an installation only means that the person
is trying to use what was already SOLD to them.

Wrong, pushing the button without reading the contents of the box it's
below is the same ignorant excuse, and it's not acceptable.

Answer me this - why does most of society look for ways to make excuses
for the ignorant/stupid? It's like the "Not guilty by reason of
insanity" defense - it should be "Guilty by reason of insanity".

If people are too ignorant/stupid to read a button click won't make any
difference. If you put up a 50' sign at Wallyworld with the licensing
details, 99% of all purchasers would never read it.

It's just ignorant people - ever read the ENTIRE financing agreement
when purchasing a car? I do, it's funny to watch the sales person get
flustered as you read EVERY word on both sides and all the other
documents too.

I guess you're just highly informed and the rest of us peons are ignorant
fools. I never read the EULAs, agreements, etc. either. I click the button
to install the update or software and that's it.

Alias

Leythos wrote:

It's just ignorant people - ever read the ENTIRE financing agreement
when purchasing a car? I do, it's funny to watch the sales person get
flustered as you read EVERY word on both sides and all the other
documents too.


Just read the Legal Notice in my sig and you'll be covered for all time with
any product. :-)

--

ø¤º°`°ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°øø¤º°`°ø,¸¸ ,ø¤º°`°ø
Windows is *NOT* a virus. Viruses are small and efficient.
Legal Notice And Disclaimer:
http://www.euronet.nl/users/frankvw/legal.html

In article ,
says...

"Leythos" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
But 99% of the users still wouldn't read it, would not care, would
still be blissfully ignorant.

But then both parties get to agree or disagree before the sale.
Pressing a button to continue an installation only means that the person
is trying to use what was already SOLD to them.

Wrong, pushing the button without reading the contents of the box it's
below is the same ignorant excuse, and it's not acceptable.

Answer me this - why does most of society look for ways to make excuses
for the ignorant/stupid? It's like the "Not guilty by reason of
insanity" defense - it should be "Guilty by reason of insanity".

If people are too ignorant/stupid to read a button click won't make any
difference. If you put up a 50' sign at Wallyworld with the licensing
details, 99% of all purchasers would never read it.

It's just ignorant people - ever read the ENTIRE financing agreement
when purchasing a car? I do, it's funny to watch the sales person get
flustered as you read EVERY word on both sides and all the other
documents too.

I guess you're just highly informed and the rest of us peons are ignorant
fools. I never read the EULAs, agreements, etc. either. I click the button
to install the update or software and that's it.

It's your choice - there is nothing wrong with being one of the ignorant
masses, if it doesn't bother you to be one that is.

I have no issues with anyone not being an Informed person, it's a choice
people make in lots of areas every day. I'm just not one of those types.

--
--

remove 999 in order to email me

Reality! HA! Don't forget to pay the guy on your board specializing in
Antitrust Compliance. Doubt he uses water. His telephone rings much?
He'll need a hefty income. City services? You exist on the web, what do
you need sanitation and expensive toilet paper for.

I tried to pull up a filing for Microsoft with the Federal Trade Commision.
Couldn't find one, I prolly need a staff the size of WinXP war team to
locate that. (

Where are these Freebies Carey mentioned?! I pay for tech calls, that's all
the aftermarket parts I need. If your product needs patched, that's faulty
manufacturing, manufacturing expenses shouldn't come out of my pocket,
should they?

"Ron Martell" wrote in message
...
kony wrote:



What bills might those be?
MS essentially extorts money from anyone who builds a
full-featured PC. Their only bills are whatever they choose
to spend, most definitely NOT a necessary business expense
because they have no competitors in the commercial PC OS
market.


Right. Employees work for nothing. Electricity, telephones, water,
and other city services are provided free.

Wake up and face reality.


Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
--
Microsoft MVP
On-Line Help Computer Service
http://onlinehelp.bc.ca

In memory of a dear friend Alex Nichol MVP
http://aumha.org/alex.htm

I can give you the urls
for the major computer store chains in Spain and you will see that NONE of
them offer retail in any shape or form.

I'll take your word for it. Its prolly cheaper to learn English, than pay
that markup.

"Leythos" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

"Leythos" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
But 99% of the users still wouldn't read it, would not care, would
still be blissfully ignorant.

But then both parties get to agree or disagree before the sale.
Pressing a button to continue an installation only means that the
person
is trying to use what was already SOLD to them.

Wrong, pushing the button without reading the contents of the box it's
below is the same ignorant excuse, and it's not acceptable.

Answer me this - why does most of society look for ways to make excuses
for the ignorant/stupid? It's like the "Not guilty by reason of
insanity" defense - it should be "Guilty by reason of insanity".

If people are too ignorant/stupid to read a button click won't make any
difference. If you put up a 50' sign at Wallyworld with the licensing
details, 99% of all purchasers would never read it.

It's just ignorant people - ever read the ENTIRE financing agreement
when purchasing a car? I do, it's funny to watch the sales person get
flustered as you read EVERY word on both sides and all the other
documents too.

I guess you're just highly informed and the rest of us peons are ignorant
fools. I never read the EULAs, agreements, etc. either. I click the
button
to install the update or software and that's it.

It's your choice - there is nothing wrong with being one of the ignorant
masses, if it doesn't bother you to be one that is.

My not reading the agreements doesn't bother me one bit. What I am concerned
about is the installation going well and, ahem, *using* the software.

I have no issues with anyone not being an Informed person, it's a choice
people make in lots of areas every day. I'm just not one of those types.

Yeah, we all know how supercilious you are.

Alias

Leythos wrote:
In article ,
says...
Everything is black and white when you are program to think that way.

Only if you are programmed to think that there are acceptable excuses
for actions that should not have been taken.

Ethics is not mathamatics.

Sure they are - it's part of the cost/benefit model - if you have to
think about ethics then you are weighing what it will cost against
what you want to do, not what you should do.

What I think is ethical, and what a fundamentalist Christian thinks is
ethical are two different things!

I believe that the killing of any actual human being is wrong, though
there may be mitigating circumstances, such as in the immediacy of
self-defense.

A fundamentalist Christian thinks that killing some human beings is
right and necessary, but thinks that potential but not actual human
being must be protected, except as part of a treatment for infertility!

What is ethical depends on the point of view of the individual.

To me, lying to a woman that asks, does she look fat, is not only
ethical, but necessary for one's continuing well-being.

To me, lying to a conman is not only ethical, but necessary. And MS is
just a con-corporation.

Ethics are akin to philosophy, not mathematics, and only an automaton
wouldn't understand that.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

"BNR" wrote in message
.net...
I can give you the urls
for the major computer store chains in Spain and you will see that NONE
of
them offer retail in any shape or form.

I'll take your word for it. Its prolly cheaper to learn English, than pay
that markup.

For an OEM Home XP in English, I can get it for 110 US Dollars and in
Spanish I can get it for 95 US Dollars.

Alias

"kurttrail" wrote

Ethics are akin to philosophy, not mathematics, and only an automaton
wouldn't understand that.

--
Peace!
Kurt

You have to understand that "Leythos" thinks that 2 and 2 are 5.

Alias