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#1
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M$ chat tells me I can't wipe and reinstall
or I lose my license.
Am I being bamboozled? |
#2
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M$ chat tells me I can't wipe and reinstall
In article , wrote:
or I lose my license. win10 uses entitlements, so not an issue. |
#3
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M$ chat tells me I can't wipe and reinstall
On 2/11/19 6:19 PM, T wrote:
or I lose my license. Am I being bamboozled? They are telling me since it was a free upgrade from Windows 8.1 and I wiped my hard drive when going from 1803 to 1809 that I lost my rights |
#4
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M$ chat tells me I can't wipe and reinstall
T wrote:
On 2/11/19 6:19 PM, T wrote: or I lose my license. Am I being bamboozled? They are telling me since it was a free upgrade from Windows 8.1 and I wiped my hard drive when going from 1803 to 1809 that I lost my rights Not as I understand it. Did you change the installed hardware, such as using a different motherboard ? That would cause the hardware hash to change and your Digital Entitlement could not be located on the license server at MS. When a system does a Free Upgrade by doing an over-the-top Win7SP1 to Win10, you're allow to then scrub the drive and do a Clean Install of the same SKU of Win10. Win7SP1 Pro to Win10 Pro, then Clean Install of Win10 Pro. The Digital Entitlement generated during the 7-10 install, records the motherboard MAC and other identifying serial numbers. The Clean Install attempt, then sends in the same hardware hash, proving it's the same machine, and that it should be activated again. The original Win7 image doesn't have to be present. The free upgrade license key, like the bogus *3V66T key, isn't a real key, and cannot be typed into any screens for activation purposes. Each SKU (Home and Pro and...) has its own specific key (8HVX7, 3V66T, ...). If the Win7 install was Retail, and you moved it to another machine, maybe they can see that at Microsoft on their screen. If you change the hardware, that can cause the activation to fail on a Clean Install. If all the machines in your house use the same MSA account, it's supposed to make it easier for Microsoft Support to handle cases where a Win7SP1 Pro OEM +Freebie user say, changes a motherboard and expects it to be activated. Without the MSA for tracking purposes, it's harder to prove what license is involved and why it should be activated. Since no one has posted an experience involving that sort of details, there's no confirmation of any "generous" support behavior. I had a WinXP install on a different motherboard work for a System Builder OEM. The terms of the license should not allow that, but it activated. There had not been a lot of install attempts on that particular license. Which really should not have made a difference, as OEM isn't move-able. I got rid of my VIA motherboard, because there was a problem with PCI bus behavior, so I got an Intel chipset motherboard instead (with a different NIC MAC value). Paul |
#5
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M$ chat tells me I can't wipe and reinstall
On 2/11/19 7:02 PM, Paul wrote:
T wrote: On 2/11/19 6:19 PM, T wrote: or I lose my license. Am I being bamboozled? They are telling me since it was a free upgrade from Windows 8.1 and I wiped my hard drive when going from 1803 to 1809 that I lost my rights Not as I understand it. Did you change the installed hardware, such as using a different motherboard ? That would cause the hardware hash to change and your Digital Entitlement could not be located on the license server at MS. When a system does a Free Upgrade by doing an over-the-top Win7SP1 to Win10, you're allow to then scrub the drive and do a Clean Install of the same SKU of Win10. Win7SP1 Pro to Win10 Pro, then Clean Install of Win10 Pro. The Digital Entitlement generated during the 7-10 install, records the motherboard MAC and other identifying serial numbers. The Clean Install attempt, then sends in the same hardware hash, proving it's the same machine, and that it should be activated again. The original Win7 image doesn't have to be present. The free upgrade license key, like the bogus *3V66T key, isn't a real key, and cannot be typed into any screens for activation purposes. Each SKU (Home and Pro and...) has its own specific key (8HVX7, 3V66T, ...). If the Win7 install was Retail, and you moved it to another machine, maybe they can see that at Microsoft on their screen. If you change the hardware, that can cause the activation to fail on a Clean Install. If all the machines in your house use the same MSA account, it's supposed to make it easier for Microsoft Support to handle cases where a Win7SP1 Pro OEM +Freebie user say, changes a motherboard and expects it to be activated. Without the MSA for tracking purposes, it's harder to prove what license is involved and why it should be activated. Since no one has posted an experience involving that sort of details, there's no confirmation of any "generous" support behavior. I had a WinXP install on a different motherboard work for a System Builder OEM. The terms of the license should not allow that, but it activated. There had not been a lot of install attempts on that particular license. Which really should not have made a difference, as OEM isn't move-able. I got rid of my VIA motherboard, because there was a problem with PCI bus behavior, so I got an Intel chipset motherboard instead (with a different NIC MAC value). Â*Â* Paul It is a vm. The only that that changed was the USB flash drives. I did a full wipe of the hard drive before upgrading from 1803 to 1809 |
#6
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M$ chat tells me I can't wipe and reinstall
T wrote:
It is a vm. The only that that changed was the USB flash drives. I did a full wipe of the hard drive before upgrading from 1803 to 1809 Isn't there some sort of identifier inside the VM that identifies the container ? The key you used, should follow the container. If you attach a second (empty) VHD and clone over the install to the second VHD, then delete the first VHD, I would expect trouble. I've not been able to verify that by the way. It was just a claim I saw, that said there was some unique "thing" on the container used. The Guest environment would otherwise be too insulated to probe directly. (Does an emulated NIC have a unique MAC ???) ******* From inside a Win10 VM Guest I run... looking for unique numbers. C:\WINDOWS\system32wmic diskdrive get * Availability BytesPerSector Capabilities 512 {3, 4, 10} CapabilityDescriptions {"Random Access", "Supports Writing", "SMART Notification"} Caption CompressionMethod ConfigManagerErrorCode ConfigManagerUserConfig VBOX HARDDISK 0 FALSE CreationClassName DefaultBlockSize Description DeviceID Win32_DiskDrive Disk drive \\.\PHYSICALDRIVE0 ErrorCleared ErrorDescription ErrorMethodology FirmwareRevision 1.0 Index InstallDate InterfaceType LastErrorCode Manufacturer 0 IDE (Standard disk drives) MaxBlockSize MaxMediaSize MediaLoaded MediaType TRUE Fixed hard disk media MinBlockSize Model Name NeedsCleaning VBOX HARDDISK \\.\PHYSICALDRIVE0 NumberOfMediaSupported Partitions PNPDeviceID 2 SCSI\DISK&VEN_VBOX&PROD_HARDDISK\4&2617AEAE&0&0000 00 === PowerManagementCapabilities PowerManagementSupported SCSIBus SCSILogicalUnit 0 0 SCSIPort SCSITargetId SectorsPerTrack SerialNumber 0 0 63 VB6ac4a490-1911585e === Signature 2678489361 === Size Status StatusInfo SystemCreationClassName SystemName 68713989120 OK Win32_ComputerSystem MYMACHINE TotalCylinders TotalHeads TotalSectors TotalTracks TracksPerCylinder 8354 255 134207010 2130270 255 There are at least three numbers that look interesting there. And inside the VM, the emulated Intel Pro/1000 NIC MAC is different than the host. 08-00-27-1E-EB-F3 So then the question is, what happens to those if the VHD moves to another machine ? ******* Since I've never wasted a license key on a VM install, I can't comment on how "cranky" they are. ******* I hope you didn't throw away the VHD file. Maybe what you could do, is "format" the VHD with something, zero it out, then do a Clean Install and see if preserving the VHD also manages to preserve the license. ******* https://www.zdnet.com/article/window...n-same-system/ "...when you move an existing VMware-based VM from one computer to another. The first time you try to run that VM, it detects that the VM was moved and asks if you want to keep it associated with VMware's unique identifier (known as the UUID) for that virtual machine, or if you want to create one. According to VMware, if you create a new UUID, that will trigger a change to the MAC address which in turn could awaken the licensing Gods at Microsoft. " OK, in VirtualBox works, I can look at "Windows 10.vbox" file with Wordpad, as it's an XML file. HardDisk uuid="{6ac4a490-5e2c-41d2-95ff-d3115e581119}" === SerialNumber value inside location="D:/Windows10.vhd" format="VHD" type="Normal"/ So how does that number "outside the machine", get "inside the machine" ? Looking at bcdedit inside the Windows 10 Guest, it would be "too late to figure out" if that number is in there too. The last digits of the "resumeobject" in BCDEDIT, match the MAC address... 0800271eebf3} Reinstalling would just copy the new value, if there was a new value. That still doesn't explain how the Guest MAC address is derived. You would have to experiment with your materials, to figure out what "change", changes the hardware signature items. The Guest MAC is way more important than the disk serial number (since I change disks all the time with OSes on them, clone over and so on, without anything tipping over). No hardware identifier is completely innocuous - it takes multiple of the "small ones" changing to upset activation. But in normal usage, changing the motherboard is bound to blow things up (NIC MAC). The motherboard also has a serial number, but some of those can be flashed, so for Microsoft that would not be a very good identifier. I suppose even a physical NIC MAC isn't immune from that either (I had one motherboard where the BIOS flasher had a couple command line options to change the MAC on Eth and the MAC on Firewire). Paul |
#7
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M$ chat tells me I can't wipe and reinstall
Hi Paul,
When I wiped, I really wiped: copied /dev/zero from dark to daylight. -T |
#8
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M$ chat tells me I can't wipe and reinstall
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#9
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M$ chat tells me I can't wipe and reinstall
On 12/02/2019 02:19, T wrote:
or I lose my license. Am I being bamboozled? *No you are a liar and a very big rogue trader. Pure & Simple.* *People like you should be locked away for good.* -- With over 950 million devices now running Windows 10, customer satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows. |
#10
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M$ chat tells me I can't wipe and reinstall
On 02/11/19 18:19, T wrote:
or I lose my license. Am I being bamboozled? MS Chat - is that the old 'comic chat' or something else? |
#11
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M$ chat tells me I can't wipe and reinstall
On 2/11/19 11:27 PM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
On 02/11/19 18:19, T wrote: or I lose my license. Am I being bamboozled? MS Chat - is that the old 'comic chat' or something else? M$'s support is so, so bad it takes my breath away |
#12
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M$ chat tells me I can't wipe and reinstall
On 2/11/19 6:19 PM, T wrote:
or I lose my license. Am I being bamboozled? Yup. I was. You can always tell when they refuse to escalate an issue. Well as it transpires and calling speaking to five more Indians: The license I see installed is a temporary installation key and won't activate. My actual license turned out to be a Beta license and M$ reneged on upgrading it. I do remember filling out the forms and what the hell... W8 license upgrade to w10 gets/got deactivated after ANY hardware change. As such is totally inadequate for my needs. And got tossed out of the system years ago. The full commercial/retail license can be reinstalled and transferred and does not care so much about hardware changes. (M$ can release any hardware change hold by calling them.) Oh ya, there is no way around paying them again for another license. And I really resent becoming part of their revenue stream when I am reselling their ****. |
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