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  #121  
Old March 22nd 19, 06:35 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.computer.workshop
Commander Kinsey
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Posts: 1,279
Default Virus on page?

On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 17:24:55 -0000, Mayayana wrote:

"Commander Kinsey" wrote

| So damn useless then. The number of times I was asked (when working as IT
support) for a way to simply edit a PDF slightly. Somebody wanted to change
a few words, omit a section etc. Also my neighbour recently (as a landlord)
wanted to edit a Council made document to make it suitable for renting a
flat. Almost bloody impossible. That was the whole point of the document,
to use as a template!
|

Certainly not a good template format. I use PDFs for
business estimates and receipts, but I always write it in
Libre Office as a doc. The PDF is only for sending to
the customer.


The thing is you never know when someone might want to edit what you sent.
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  #122  
Old March 22nd 19, 07:34 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.computer.workshop
Mayayana
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Posts: 6,438
Default Virus on page?

"Commander Kinsey" wrote

| Certainly not a good template format. I use PDFs for
| business estimates and receipts, but I always write it in
| Libre Office as a doc. The PDF is only for sending to
| the customer.
|
| The thing is you never know when someone might want to edit what you sent.

So don't send a PDF. That's not what PDFs are for. I don't
see the conflict. If you want to let them edit then why not
send a TXT or DOC?

I send a PDF *because* I don't want or expect that
my customer will be editing my estimate. And they
may want to print it out to be a comfortingly official
looking piece of paper. Printable and not easily editable.
That's what PDF is for. For any other purpose it's a
poor choice.

If I want them to edit something -- say a work punch
list -- then I'd send TXT. (Personally I see very little use
for DOC outside of offices. But some people live in
MS Word and for them a DOC or DOCX seems convenient
and sensible.) Then when you send the thing out as the
official council announcement it can go as PDF. Even
then, the PDF choice is only for the purpose of making
the file seem officious and immutable.


  #123  
Old March 22nd 19, 08:02 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.computer.workshop
Commander Kinsey
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Posts: 1,279
Default Virus on page?

On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 18:34:24 -0000, Mayayana wrote:

"Commander Kinsey" wrote

| Certainly not a good template format. I use PDFs for
| business estimates and receipts, but I always write it in
| Libre Office as a doc. The PDF is only for sending to
| the customer.
|
| The thing is you never know when someone might want to edit what you sent.

So don't send a PDF. That's not what PDFs are for. I don't
see the conflict. If you want to let them edit then why not
send a TXT or DOC?

I send a PDF *because* I don't want or expect that
my customer will be editing my estimate. And they
may want to print it out to be a comfortingly official
looking piece of paper. Printable and not easily editable.
That's what PDF is for. For any other purpose it's a
poor choice.


And what if they want to use your nicely laid out estimate to do their own in the future? Don't be so mean! Don't make people reinvent the wheel!

If I want them to edit something -- say a work punch
list -- then I'd send TXT. (Personally I see very little use
for DOC outside of offices.


And if you want to send something editable that's fancier than text? DOC is the standard.

But some people live in
MS Word and for them a DOC or DOCX seems convenient
and sensible.) Then when you send the thing out as the
official council announcement it can go as PDF. Even
then, the PDF choice is only for the purpose of making
the file seem officious and immutable.


I've had DOCX from many companies and it works just fine. Word used to be **** at printing if you had the wrong fonts installed, but that was last century. Why should they bother converting to PDF jut to annoy me?

--
"No comment" is a comment. --George Carlin
  #124  
Old March 22nd 19, 08:59 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.computer.workshop
Mayayana
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Posts: 6,438
Default Virus on page?

"Commander Kinsey" wrote

| And what if they want to use your nicely laid out estimate to do their own
in the future? Don't be so mean! Don't make people reinvent the wheel!
|

You sure do like to find things to complain about.
My estimate is a work estimate, on my "stationery",
with my businss logo. It's a business document. The
estimate involves a commitment on my part to agree
to a defined job for a specific payment. It's not for
someone to edit willy nilly.
What sort of person would want to use that so they
don't have to "reinvent the wheel"?

You can't imagine a case where a document shouldn't
be editable? Perhaps you could send me your will and
I'll make a few changes. Oh, and why not include a blank
check for good measure? Don't be mean, now, and make
me open my own checking account.


  #125  
Old March 22nd 19, 09:28 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.computer.workshop
Commander Kinsey
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Posts: 1,279
Default Virus on page?

On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 19:59:03 -0000, Mayayana wrote:

"Commander Kinsey" wrote

| And what if they want to use your nicely laid out estimate to do their own
in the future? Don't be so mean! Don't make people reinvent the wheel!
|

You sure do like to find things to complain about.
My estimate is a work estimate, on my "stationery",
with my businss logo. It's a business document. The
estimate involves a commitment on my part to agree
to a defined job for a specific payment. It's not for
someone to edit willy nilly.
What sort of person would want to use that so they
don't have to "reinvent the wheel"?

You can't imagine a case where a document shouldn't
be editable? Perhaps you could send me your will and
I'll make a few changes. Oh, and why not include a blank
check for good measure? Don't be mean, now, and make
me open my own checking account.


The question should be, why are you deliberately preventing them from editing it? Why do you care?

--
"Buy one, get one free." Does it have to be in that order?
  #126  
Old March 22nd 19, 10:09 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.computer.workshop
Jonathan N. Little[_2_]
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Posts: 1,133
Default Virus on page?

Commander Kinsey wrote:

The question should be, why are you deliberately preventing them from
editing it?* Why do you care


Copyright protection on original creative work. Allow others to view and
print but not modify.

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
  #127  
Old March 22nd 19, 10:36 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.computer.workshop
Mayayana
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Posts: 6,438
Default Virus on page?

"Jonathan N. Little" wrote

| Commander Kinsey wrote:
|
| The question should be, why are you deliberately preventing them from
| editing it? Why do you care
|
| Copyright protection on original creative work. Allow others to view and
| print but not modify.
|

That, too. But in this case it's not even that.
It's just common sense and good business. The
same reason we don't write out checks, receipts and
bills in pencil. The recipient has no right to change
them and such a change could be harmful as well
as criminal.

I can only assume that Cmr. Kinsey has
decided to play devil's advocate. His repeated
questioning makes no sense.


  #128  
Old March 22nd 19, 10:50 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.computer.workshop
Commander Kinsey
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Posts: 1,279
Default Virus on page?

On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 21:09:01 -0000, Jonathan N. Little wrote:

Commander Kinsey wrote:

The question should be, why are you deliberately preventing them from
editing it? Why do you care


Copyright protection on original creative work. Allow others to view and
print but not modify.


Copyright on a receipt, er what?

--
My truck does not leak. It's just marking its territory!
  #129  
Old March 22nd 19, 10:51 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.computer.workshop
Commander Kinsey
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Posts: 1,279
Default Virus on page?

On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 21:36:55 -0000, Mayayana wrote:

"Jonathan N. Little" wrote

| Commander Kinsey wrote:
|
| The question should be, why are you deliberately preventing them from
| editing it? Why do you care
|
| Copyright protection on original creative work. Allow others to view and
| print but not modify.
|

That, too. But in this case it's not even that.
It's just common sense and good business. The
same reason we don't write out checks, receipts and
bills in pencil. The recipient has no right to change
them and such a change could be harmful as well
as criminal.

I can only assume that Cmr. Kinsey has
decided to play devil's advocate. His repeated
questioning makes no sense.


Pssst, I can change your bill by simply screengrabbing it. Your feeble attempts are futile. Anyone who wants to change something will do so.

--
"I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it."
  #130  
Old March 22nd 19, 11:07 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.computer.workshop
nospam
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Posts: 4,718
Default Virus on page?

In article , Jonathan N. Little
wrote:


The question should be, why are you deliberately preventing them from
editing it?* Why do you care


Copyright protection on original creative work. Allow others to view and
print but not modify.


and sometimes not print.
  #131  
Old March 22nd 19, 11:07 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.computer.workshop
nospam
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Posts: 4,718
Default Virus on page?

In article , Commander Kinsey
wrote:

| The question should be, why are you deliberately preventing them from
| editing it? Why do you care
|
| Copyright protection on original creative work. Allow others to view and
| print but not modify.
|

That, too. But in this case it's not even that.
It's just common sense and good business. The
same reason we don't write out checks, receipts and
bills in pencil. The recipient has no right to change
them and such a change could be harmful as well
as criminal.

I can only assume that Cmr. Kinsey has
decided to play devil's advocate. His repeated
questioning makes no sense.


Pssst, I can change your bill by simply screengrabbing it. Your feeble
attempts are futile. Anyone who wants to change something will do so.


that won't change the amount you owe, and attempting to get out of
paying that by altering an invoice is a criminal act.
  #132  
Old March 23rd 19, 12:20 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.computer.workshop
Jonathan N. Little[_2_]
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Posts: 1,133
Default Virus on page?

Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 21:09:01 -0000, Jonathan N. Little
wrote:

Commander Kinsey wrote:

The question should be, why are you deliberately preventing them from
editing it?* Why do you care


Copyright protection on original creative work. Allow others to view and
print but not modify.


Copyright on a receipt, er what?


PDF for graphics and artwork.

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
  #133  
Old March 23rd 19, 02:05 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.computer.workshop
Commander Kinsey
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Posts: 1,279
Default Virus on page?

On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 23:20:54 -0000, Jonathan N. Little wrote:

Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 21:09:01 -0000, Jonathan N. Little
wrote:

Commander Kinsey wrote:

The question should be, why are you deliberately preventing them from
editing it? Why do you care

Copyright protection on original creative work. Allow others to view and
print but not modify.


Copyright on a receipt, er what?


PDF for graphics and artwork.


Do you really think we can't press "printscreen"?

--
"C++" should have been called "D"
  #134  
Old March 23rd 19, 02:33 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.computer.workshop
Mayayana
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Posts: 6,438
Default Virus on page?

"Commander Kinsey" wrote

| PDF for graphics and artwork.
|
| Do you really think we can't press "printscreen"?
|

Yes. You can also counterfeit money. But there's
a difference between giving you a high quality TIF
vs a lower quality JPG in a PDF that you then copy
at 96 ppi. Getting good quality from that will be harder
or impossible. And there's a deliberate effort required
on your part to break the law. Many people will pick up
a wallet on the street and not tell anyone if no one
sees them. Few people will actually pick your pocket
and consciously steal your wallet. PDFs are similar.

It's the same with my receipts. You can alter
my receipt to say you paid me 10,000 pounds rather
than 1,000. But you'll need slight tech expertise
(which rules out most people) and you'll need to
make a deliberate effort to forge the receipt. That's
a more clearcut crime than having a TXT or DOC
and.... woops.... "I don't know how the numbers
got changed."

You can then deduct 10,000 off your taxes and may
not get caught, but if the tax man checks he'll find out
that you forged my receipt. And he'll know that you had
to go to some effort to do that. In fact, if you only had
a TXT or DOC receipt that same tax man might insist on
confirming the payment with me, since TXT or DOC
wouldn't look like a real receipt.

But I don't mean to disagree with you. I think your
view is very intelligent and well thought out. And since
we both agree I expect you'll have no hesitation in
sending me a signed, blank check, since I could fake
it anyway, if you don't. So you may as well. You can
fill out the amount in pencil if you like.


  #135  
Old March 23rd 19, 03:02 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.computer.workshop
Commander Kinsey
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Posts: 1,279
Default Virus on page?

On Sat, 23 Mar 2019 01:33:25 -0000, Mayayana wrote:

"Commander Kinsey" wrote

| PDF for graphics and artwork.
|
| Do you really think we can't press "printscreen"?
|

Yes. You can also counterfeit money. But there's
a difference between giving you a high quality TIF
vs a lower quality JPG in a PDF that you then copy
at 96 ppi. Getting good quality from that will be harder
or impossible.


I can get whatever quality you put in the PDF. Same as I can get whatever quality you put in a Word document. The PDF doesn't protect you, you're hiding your head in the sand.

And there's a deliberate effort required
on your part to break the law.


Predsing one key on my keyboard ain't breaking the law. If the image is on my screen, I can do whatever the **** I like with it.

Many people will pick up
a wallet on the street and not tell anyone if no one
sees them. Few people will actually pick your pocket
and consciously steal your wallet. PDFs are similar.


No, as when I take the image from "your" PDF, you still have that image. If I take your wallet, you lose it.

It's the same with my receipts. You can alter
my receipt to say you paid me 10,000 pounds rather
than 1,000. But you'll need slight tech expertise
(which rules out most people) and you'll need to
make a deliberate effort to forge the receipt. That's
a more clearcut crime than having a TXT or DOC
and.... woops.... "I don't know how the numbers
got changed."


I never mentioned altering the receipt, I was talking about re-using it as a convenient template.

You can then deduct 10,000 off your taxes and may
not get caught, but if the tax man checks he'll find out
that you forged my receipt. And he'll know that you had
to go to some effort to do that. In fact, if you only had
a TXT or DOC receipt that same tax man might insist on
confirming the payment with me, since TXT or DOC
wouldn't look like a real receipt.


Tax men aren't clever enough.

But I don't mean to disagree with you. I think your
view is very intelligent and well thought out. And since
we both agree I expect you'll have no hesitation in
sending me a signed, blank check, since I could fake
it anyway, if you don't. So you may as well. You can
fill out the amount in pencil if you like.


I can't steal your money by altering your document.

--
"Good morning" is a contradiction in terms.
 




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