A Windows XP help forum. PCbanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » PCbanter forum » Microsoft Windows XP » General XP issues or comments
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

XP Browser



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old July 8th 20, 12:29 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Norm Cook[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6
Default XP Browser

Using Chrome For XP Version 49.0.2623.75
Works well despite warnings that it will soon no longer be
supported.

Has any figured out how to avoid the 'Your clock is ahead/behind?'

I have IE8 installed but it won't open any https website.

Any other browsers that work well with XP?


Ads
  #2  
Old July 8th 20, 01:19 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,438
Default XP Browser

"Norm Cook" wrote

| Using Chrome For XP Version 49.0.2623.75
| Works well despite warnings that it will soon no longer be
| supported.
|
| Has any figured out how to avoid the 'Your clock is ahead/behind?'
|
| I have IE8 installed but it won't open any https website.
|
| Any other browsers that work well with XP?
|

I don't understand the clock question. As for browsers,
I'm using Firefox 52.9 and New Moon 28.6. I got the latest
NM awhile back but had problems with it. I don't remember
offhand what they were.

Another good thing to do, which Chrome may not allow,
is to spoof the userAgent. Demanding only the latest
browser has become an epidemic of incompetence and
exploitation online. (I'm often not sure whether they don't
know what they're doing or whether they only accept the
latest in the sense of wanting to track data like geo-location
from the browser.)

Most sites will stop complaining with the userAgent spoofed.
I think I'm currently running as Win7-64 with FF 76.

Are there sites that *really* won't work without a browser
less than a year old? I don't know. It's possible. If anyone
knows of such a case I'd be interested to know exactly what
functionality such a website depends on. I don't use my main
machine to do risky things like enabling script, and I don't
use any kind of social media, so I haven't tried to access many
sites. I wonder if some of those sites are eventually just going
to break on desktop computers, demanding the tracking options
available on phones.

A separate factor that may become an increasing problem is
that there seems to be a new browser wars brewing. MS is
trying to force New Edge on people. Google is trying to recreate
AOL and force Chrome on people. It could get ugly.


  #3  
Old July 8th 20, 02:59 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default XP Browser

Norm Cook wrote:
Using Chrome For XP Version 49.0.2623.75
Works well despite warnings that it will soon no longer be
supported.

Has any figured out how to avoid the 'Your clock is ahead/behind?'

I have IE8 installed but it won't open any https website.

Any other browsers that work well with XP?


The unfortunate division of labor, is browsers sometimes
rely on system services, for part of their protocol support.

On Linux, you might have the crypto as local code within the
browser program. And that means, if they wanted, they could
use that Linux code, on Windows.

On Windows, there's an SChannel, which is great, except when
OS updates stop and it drifts "out of date". A few web servers
rely on TLS 1.3 and CHACHA20 for an https connection. There
are also certificates that must be maintained on the client
connection, in order for https to work. If you rely on an
OS that stopped support in 2014, there will eventually be
consequences.

The whole thing turns into a "maintenance-full" exercise.
It pays lip service to backward compatibility, in that the
participants pretend that every version *except* the current
bleeding edge, is hopelessly compromised and insecure. The
server decides whether a client gets in. And if you see
some of the comments about Internet Explorer on the web,
you'll understand how it's easy for some people to break
it and offer a degraded user experience.

Some day soon, the degraded user experience will be
reserved for everyone not using Chrome, and it'll have
to be a modern version of Chrome too. They'll even ****
on Chrome 49. The web will become MonoChromeAtic.

Paul
  #4  
Old July 8th 20, 07:36 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,881
Default XP Browser

Norm Cook wrote:

Using Chrome For XP Version 49.0.2623.75
Works well despite warnings that it will soon no longer be
supported.

Has any figured out how to avoid the 'Your clock is ahead/behind?'

I have IE8 installed but it won't open any https website.

Any other browsers that work well with XP?


SSL/TLS used in encrypting the handshake between the endpoint hosts
involves sending time sensitive tokens. If the time of one host is way
off (I don't know by how much) then the other end thinks the token it
got has already expired, and the session gets cancelled.

What is so tough about keeping your host correct for its time? You have
an Internet connection, so you can access the 2nd and 3rd tier atomic
clocks to keep your OS (and RTC) clock in sync. I don't remember under
what conditions Windows XP will do an NTP (Network Time Protocol) sync.
One is when you connect to a domain where the PDC provides the time
sync, but you're not likely in a corporate domain network. I'd have to
research, but my guess the default time sync is once per week for XP.
Your RTC chip shouldn't drift by more than a minute, or two, over an
entire year, so weekly updates mean you won't have SSL connect issues.
You can also get atomic clock sync software for free. I used to use
Socke****ch, even in later versions of Windows.

Socke****ch came with a long list of time servers. The list was old, so
many were dead (no longer existed) or were unreachable. I went through
the list to delete the dead ones although that was just me being neat
until I realized they demoted the dead ones. They would test the lag in
response from the time servers (they tried 5 at a time) and kept a score
on how quick you got a response, so the fastest ones got used. You can
also edit the list to add your own, like I added a couple public ones
ran by a local university.

Eventually I discarded Socke****ch because I found the registry settings
for the Windows Time service which let me change the sync interval to
once per day. As with Socke****ch, I can edit registry settings to add
NTP servers, so I added the university's. The NTP servers are listed
under:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\Curr entVersion\DateTime\Servers

Then I went into the time config, and selected one of those. The
Microsoft ones are the default ones, so they get slammed by the vast
majority of Windows hosts and can get too busy. A better choice would
be to change to using time.nist.gov which Microsoft already pre-defined.

If you want to change the NTP polling interval, there are plenty of
online articles telling which registry entries to edit. Easier is to
use the command-line program w32tm.exe. You can add an event in Task
Scheduler to run "w32tm.exe /resync /nowait" that runs once per day, or
at whatever interval you want. Run "w32tm.exe /?" to see a list of all
its arguments. I found it easier to schedule the resync event than have
to remember where in the registry to shorten the polling interval.
Actually I schedule a .bat file to run once per day which has:

@echo off
cls

echo Force a time synchronization ...
echo (This batch script must be ran inside an elevated command shell.)

:REM - Make sure the time service is running.
net start w32time

:REM Force a time sync.
w32tm /resync /nowait

Whether using the batch file or the .exe file, the scheduled event MUST
run with elevated privileges. I simply added the 'net start' command to
ensure the Windows Time service was in Running state. Such commands are
asynchronous: they send a request to start the service, but the command
does not wait until the service is ready. Well, if the service was
stopped for some reason, it could take longer to startup than when the
w32tm command was next executed in the batch file. Oh well, if it
wasn't ready today, the service will be ready tomorrow. I'm sync'ing
once per day. The defaults are something like at Windows startup, once
per week, or at login to a domain, so my once-per-day sync was a lot
shorter (I never logout unless I have to, and leave Windows running
24x7).

I could use 3rd party time sync software, but it wouldn't do any more
than what I can by editing the registry to add my own NTP servers or to
change the polling interval (for which a scheduled event is easier to
manage instead of registry edits).

Yes, you *must* have your host synchronized regarding its time for
encrypted handshaking to work between endpoint hosts. The host to which
you connect is not an NTP server. It's not their job to run an NTP
server to keep your host up to date on its time and date. Since the
endpoints are independent, they don't sync with each other, so they sync
with a reference, like an NTP server that is part of the worldwide mesh
network of NTP servers. You don't get to sync with tier 1 NTP servers.
Only gov't and colleges can do that. You get to use 2nd or 3rd tier NTP
servers, and only those that are publicly accessible. By your endpoint
synchronizing to an NTP server, and by the server to which you want to
connect also synchronizing to an NTP server (they don't have to be the
same one), the endpoint hosts will have times that are very close and
prevent the SSL/TLS tokens from looking like they are already expired
when received. When the tokens are created, they are timestamped.
There is also an expiration, but I don't know what that it. The
expiration allows some slack to afford a small difference in times
between the endpoint hosts. I don't know if there is a default
expiration in the protocol, or if the endpoint is allowed to determine
how much difference in timestamp is too much. I didn't dig that deep
into NTP.

If instead the "Your clock is ahead/behind" message is about your
timezone, sounds like a timezone sync problem due to Daylight Savings.
Since Windows XP support ended long ago (extended support ended in 2014,
and mainstream support died before that), you won't be getting any
updates to the DST table. Previously the DST on/off dates were not
fixed, so a table held when DST went on or off. If you don't care about
the timezone on your computer matching the timezone in your region, you
could just turn off the "automatic" change. Or, when you go around your
house changing all your other clocks, you could also change your
computer's clock. Go into the Date & Time settings, Date and Time tab,
and deselect the "Notify me when the clock changes" option. Then click
on the "Change time zone" button, and deselect the "Automatically adjust
clock for Daylight Saving Time" option. Not everywhere bothers with the
DST idiocracy. The notify setting may be all you need. I'm doing a
resync every day, and it's possible the clock changes by a few
milliseconds, but I don't get a prompt telling me there was a sync.
Likely the prompt shows only when the clock changes by some threshold.
  #5  
Old July 8th 20, 07:49 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Jeff Barnett[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 298
Default XP Browser

On 7/8/2020 5:29 AM, Norm Cook wrote:
Using Chrome For XP Version 49.0.2623.75
Works well despite warnings that it will soon no longer be
supported.

Has any figured out how to avoid the 'Your clock is ahead/behind?'


It's possible that the motherboard's battery needs to be replaced - that
battery maintains the clock when computer is shut down or hibernating.
If you decide to replace it, write down all of your BIOS settings and
reenter them after the battery replacement. Some motherboards give you
an option to backup settings to a USB thumb drive. This would be a rare
capability to find on an old XP device.
--
Jeff Barnett
  #6  
Old July 8th 20, 11:53 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
John Dulak[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 61
Default XP Browser

On 7/8/2020 7:29 AM, Norm Cook wrote:
Using Chrome For XP Version 49.0.2623.75
Works well despite warnings that it will soon no longer be
supported.

Has any figured out how to avoid the 'Your clock is ahead/behind?'

I have IE8 installed but it won't open any https website.

Any other browsers that work well with XP?



Norm:

FWIIW I am using "MyPal 28.10.0" and it seems to work well for most things
except video which I can do without.

More Info;

https://feodor2.github.io/Mypal/

Download;

https://github.com/Feodor2/Mypal/releases

HTH & GL

John

--
  #7  
Old July 9th 20, 11:34 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Dee[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24
Default XP Browser

"Norm Cook" wrote in news:re4all$m3n$1@dont-
email.me:

Using Chrome For XP Version 49.0.2623.75
Works well despite warnings that it will soon no longer be
supported.

Has any figured out how to avoid the 'Your clock is ahead/behind?'

I have IE8 installed but it won't open any https website.

Any other browsers that work well with XP?


I had been using Chrome version 49.0.2623.112 which worked really well at first,
but then became slower and slower and slower with "Establishing secure connection..."
Rather than try to figure out that problem, I switched back to Firefox 52.9.0 which so far
has been fine.

Dee

  #8  
Old July 10th 20, 09:49 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Steve Hayes[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,089
Default XP Browser

On Wed, 8 Jul 2020 06:29:06 -0500, "Norm Cook"
wrote:

Using Chrome For XP Version 49.0.2623.75
Works well despite warnings that it will soon no longer be
supported.

Has any figured out how to avoid the 'Your clock is ahead/behind?'


I use Firefox 41 where possible, because it runs NoScript, and
therefore stops news sites interrupting my reading with loud voices.
It also stops the text jumpinmg around when I'm trying to read it
while it loads graphics that I'm not interested in looking at.

For things that don't work under Firfox I use Maxthon, but that tends
to do the things that NoScript stops -- lets loud voices interrupt,
and makes the text jump around.

..


--
Steve Hayes
http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
http://khanya.wordpress.com
  #9  
Old July 10th 20, 01:34 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,438
Default XP Browser

"Steve Hayes" wrote
|
| I use Firefox 41 where possible, because it runs NoScript

For what it's worth, I'm running FF 52.9 with NoScript 5.1.9.
I have xpinstall.signatures.required set to false. I don't recall
the details on this, but the way I remember it was that ESR
releases allow using "unverified" extensions. I can't seem
to find any other prefs settings that might affect the functionality.

I have several extensions in the add-ons list that show a ninny
message above the listing:

"NoScript could not be verified. Proceed with caution."

Proceed with caution. So I guess it should be fine as long
as you wear your seatbelt, don't drive over the speed limit,
and you watch out for deer running across the road.


  #10  
Old July 10th 20, 02:03 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,438
Default XP Browser

"John Dulak" wrote

| FWIIW I am using "MyPal 28.10.0" and it seems to work well for most things
| except video which I can do without.
|

I got curious about this, as I'd never heard of it.
MyPal, despite being a very dumb name, seems to be
based on the very latest Pale Moon. And unlike the
latest New Moon, it seems to work with all of my
extensions just fine. (NoScript, Secret Agent, Disable
Style Button, Restore View Source, etc.)

On the other hand, when I installed, it tried to call
out to 3 different IPs without asking. After shutting off
all possible call-home and update settings, I started
installing extensions. But it tried to call 69.195.158.198
with each install! Huh? That resolve's to "Joe's Datacenter,
LLC". That seems to be a legitimate hosting site, but still...

I'm wondering whether anyone knows more about this
product. It seems very promising, but not if it's tracking
usage with spyware reporting.



  #11  
Old July 11th 20, 12:13 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
John Dulak[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 61
Default XP Browser

On 7/10/2020 9:03 AM, Mayayana wrote:

I got curious about this, as I'd never heard of it.
MyPal, despite being a very dumb name, seems to be
based on the very latest Pale Moon. And unlike the
latest New Moon, it seems to work with all of my
extensions just fine. (NoScript, Secret Agent, Disable
Style Button, Restore View Source, etc.)

On the other hand, when I installed, it tried to call
out to 3 different IPs without asking. After shutting off
all possible call-home and update settings, I started
installing extensions. But it tried to call 69.195.158.198
with each install! Huh? That resolve's to "Joe's Datacenter,
LLC". That seems to be a legitimate hosting site, but still...

I'm wondering whether anyone knows more about this
product. It seems very promising, but not if it's tracking
usage with spyware reporting.


Mayayana;

It has been a long tome since I first installed MyPal but I don't recall it
doing anything nefarious when first run. I think it just went to some sort of
welcome or release notes page. When installing new versions it does nothing but
offer to restart.

John


--
  #12  
Old July 11th 20, 01:40 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,438
Default XP Browser

"John Dulak" wrote

| It has been a long tome since I first installed MyPal but I don't recall
it
| doing anything nefarious when first run. I think it just went to some sort
of
| welcome or release notes page.

That's typical. Many browsers now try to do that.
And some extensions. So that may be it. Still, it's an
awfully lot of calling home, and the attempts when
extensions were loaded were all to the same IP, not
to those extension homepages. That's weird. So I
was wondering if other people know about it. Other
than that it's very promising; apparently an up-to-date
version of gecko without that crap and restrictions of
late-model Firefox.


  #13  
Old July 11th 20, 05:00 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
😉 Good Guy 😉
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,483
Default XP Browser

You are not authorised to read my posts in plain text. Please install HTML enabled newsreader, such as latest Thunderbird https://www.thunderbird.net, to benefit from solutions posted in my posts.

--

With over 1.2 billion devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.


  #14  
Old July 11th 20, 04:58 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_7_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 603
Default XP Browser

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 at 20:40:44, Mayayana
wrote:
"John Dulak" wrote

| It has been a long tome since I first installed MyPal but I don't recall
it
| doing anything nefarious when first run. I think it just went to some sort
of
| welcome or release notes page.

That's typical. Many browsers now try to do that.
And some extensions. So that may be it. Still, it's an


Not just browsers and extensions; a lot of software in general. Even
IrfanView (or its add-on package [which I always get at the same time],
I don't remember for sure, though I think it's the core) takes you to a
page showing what's new in the new edition. I don't mind that. (Don't
even mind if that visit _does_ collect some data about me, though I've
no reason to believe it does.)

awfully lot of calling home, and the attempts when
extensions were loaded were all to the same IP, not
to those extension homepages. That's weird. So I
was wondering if other people know about it. Other
than that it's very promising; apparently an up-to-date
version of gecko without that crap and restrictions of
late-model Firefox.

Does that mean it works with the old-style extensions that versions
after 5x (I can never remember whether it's 52 or 59 - one is the
extensions and one XP, IIRR) won't?

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Bother," said Pooh, as Windows crashed into piglet.
  #15  
Old July 11th 20, 05:41 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,438
Default XP Browser

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote

| Not just browsers and extensions; a lot of software in general. Even
| IrfanView

I don't think it's ever done that to me, but I think there's
a checkbox I uncheck in the installer. (IV does just about
everything just right.
But calling someone to report extensions installed? That's
just weird.

| Does that mean it works with the old-style extensions that versions
| after 5x (I can never remember whether it's 52 or 59 - one is the
| extensions and one XP, IIRR) won't?

Yes. It seems to be the very latest gecko update,
coming out just after Pale Moon, but it works with
everything. I haven't updated to the latest New Moon
because it broke my CSS toggle button. But that works
just fine in MyPal. Of course, those extensions are
not so easy to get anymore, but I always save them
as part of my backup.


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off






All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 PCbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.