Why can't Microsoft display folder size?

Big Al wrote:
On 2/12/2018 12:00 PM, ...winston wrote:
if one configures File Explorer to 'Display file size information in
folder tips' and 'Show pop-up description for folder and desktop items'

Then just how does one do this?

One can find the above configuration options via
File Explorer/View/Options/View/Advanced Settings

--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ
msft mvp 2007-2016, insider mvp 2016-2018

John Doe wrote:

Someone at Microsoft just decided that file manager, a very
important part of Windows since its beginning, needed to be
messed up even more. Probably part of the effort to turn the
desktop into a smartphone.


Unlikely smartphone related. It was changed in 2006, over 11 years ago.
If you still think it related to smartphones or even Windows Phone
related - not quite, since Windows Phone was introduced in 2010. Some
might incorrectly think that MSFT had the foresight to change something
4 yrs in advance for smartphone reasons, but(they) would be wrong.

Fyi...in 2006 MSFT was still focusing on methods to sync contacts and
calendar data from the web to the pc, not a hand-held device.
Syncability for contacts and calendar excluding Outlook to an iPod(which
existed since 1st gen iPod) didn't appear until 2008 to coincide with
Windows 7 beta. i.e. Smartphone related features and design purposing
for integration came later.

--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ
msft mvp 2007-2016, insider mvp 2016-2018

On 2/13/2018 2:41 AM, ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:
Big Al wrote:
On 2/12/2018 12:00 PM, ...winston wrote:
if one configures File Explorer to 'Display file size information in
folder tips' and 'Show pop-up description for folder and desktop items'

Then just how does one do this?

One can find the above configuration options via
File Explorer/View/Options/View/Advanced Settings

Damn, after all these years and I just never knew that feature was even
there. It was turned on, but I just never hovered long enough for the
popup, that or I never noticed the info. So you can teach an old dog
new tricks!!!

"John Doe" wrote in message
news
"dadiOH" wrote:

"T" wrote
John Doe wrote:

Please refresh my memory...

Why is the file manager so lame it cannot display folder
size?

Right click on it and select "properties" at the bottom.

Or just look at the status bar.

Huh? I am looking at the status bar, it says...

"11 items, 1 item selected"

See mine...
https://imgur.com/a/lddtK

It shows the size of the files within the selected folder but does not
recurse folders within the folder.

On 2/12/2018 8:42 PM, Ron C wrote:
On 2/12/2018 8:22 PM, Zaidy036 wrote:
On 2/12/2018 8:14 PM, Zaidy036 wrote:
On 2/12/2018 2:48 PM, Ron C wrote:
On 2/12/2018 2:19 PM, Big Al wrote:
On 2/12/2018 1:30 PM, Ron C wrote:
On 2/12/2018 12:00 PM, ...winston wrote:
"John Doe"* wrote in message news
Please refresh my memory...
Why is the file manager so lame it cannot display folder size?
Thanks, I will feel better knowing why...

Removed for resource reasons beginning with Vista.
- disappearing initially during the Vista beta as classified as
design intent for the above reasons
- i.e. memory wise - the ability has* been missing for about 11 yrs.

That being said, if one configures File Explorer to 'Display file
size information in folder tips' and 'Show pop-up description for
folder and desktop items' then placing the cursor on the folder,
waiting for the popup, will show the folder size for some folders
but not others. i.e. it's not perfect but apparently the most
Windows, itself, will provide.

However there's no provision for sorting folders by size to aid in
resource management. :-(

Try https://www.jam-software.com/treesize_free/* Tree Size Free.
Does an excellent job of allowing you to browse folders, and it
sorts by size as a default.

Install and just right click a folder and if it was integrated into
explorer with a shell extension, you'll see "open with
treesizefree" as an option.**** This feature may be default or set
by user in the program IIRC.

I've had treesizefree for some time. I also have SequoiaView. What I
miss
is something like foldersize that works in explorer rather than
needing a
stand-alone app.
[YMMV]
==
FileMenuTools is another free program with various options including
folder size:
https://www.lopesoft.com/index.php/en/download/filemenu-tools

Folder Size is another option:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/foldersize/?source=navbar

As I recall that program/add-on didn't work for anything after XP.
Has it been updated to work in explorer with newer Win versions?
Opens an additional window with info

--
Zaidy036

On 2/13/2018 2:41 AM, ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:
Big Al wrote:
On 2/12/2018 12:00 PM, ...winston wrote:
if one configures File Explorer to 'Display file size information in
folder tips' and 'Show pop-up description for folder and desktop items'

Then just how does one do this?

One can find the above configuration options via
File Explorer/View/Options/View/Advanced Settings

What version of Windows are using? Not in my 7 Home.

--
Zaidy036

I was not referring only to "it", I was referring to some of
the stuff the poster snipped, like the fact file manager
sometimes loses focus after files have been deleted.

I can tell Microsoft recently rewrote some of Windows.

Some of the current nonsense is apparently related to
Microsoft trying to turn the desktop into a smartphone.




=?UTF-8?B?Li4ud8Khw7HCp8KxwqTDsQ==?= wrote:

John Doe wrote:

Someone at Microsoft just decided that file manager, a very
important part of Windows since its beginning, needed to be
messed up even more. Probably part of the effort to turn the
desktop into a smartphone.


Unlikely smartphone related. It was changed in 2006, over 11 years ago.
If you still think it related to smartphones or even Windows Phone
related - not quite, since Windows Phone was introduced in 2010. Some
might incorrectly think that MSFT had the foresight to change something
4 yrs in advance for smartphone reasons, but(they) would be wrong.

Fyi...in 2006 MSFT was still focusing on methods to sync contacts and
calendar data from the web to the pc, not a hand-held device.
Syncability for contacts and calendar excluding Outlook to an iPod(which
existed since 1st gen iPod) didn't appear until 2008 to coincide with
Windows 7 beta. i.e. Smartphone related features and design purposing
for integration came later.

John Doe wrote:
I was not referring only to "it", I was referring to some of
the stuff the poster snipped, like the fact file manager
sometimes loses focus after files have been deleted.

I can tell Microsoft recently rewrote some of Windows.

Some of the current nonsense is apparently related to
Microsoft trying to turn the desktop into a smartphone.

Computing folder size is non-scalable.

Unless the file system is redesigned to make
the metadata storage and computation efficient
in the first place.

Whatever Microsoft does with it, it can never
be a "good" implementation.

Would you prefer if a services as annoying as
Windows Indexer did the math for you continuously ?
That would be similar to what a third party implementation
could do. Or use the same approach Everything.exe uses.
Namely, do an initial scan of a volume, then hook
the USN Journal and listen for every "CreateFile"
and "DeleteFile" to correct the totals (in a
hierarchical fashion). A lot of these tools
use similar approaches. Even Windows Defender hooks
stuff like this, which is why there are so many
"gobbling" sounds ever time you touch a folder.
Just yesterday for example, I was trying to run
hashdeep on C: in Windows 10 and it wasn't
going very fast. Why ? Windows Defender was trying
to scan every file hashdeep touched. Doubling the
I/O calls. I switched off Windows Defender realtime
and went back to work.

Even if a file contained just file size metadata (like
Everything.exe produces), it would take too long to
compute the total and present the info in under
0.25 seconds. On the other hand, precomputing every folder
value in the background is possible, but is going to use
your CPU (and your disk drive) to get the info.

Paul

Paul wrote:

John Doe wrote:

I was not referring only to "it", I was referring to some
of the stuff the poster snipped, like the fact file
manager sometimes loses focus after files have been
deleted.

I can tell Microsoft recently rewrote some of Windows.

Some of the current nonsense is apparently related to
Microsoft trying to turn the desktop into a smartphone.

Computing folder size is non-scalable.

Unless the file system is redesigned to make the metadata
storage and computation efficient in the first place.

Whatever Microsoft does with it, it can never be a "good"
implementation.

Would you prefer if a services as annoying as Windows
Indexer did the math for you continuously ? That would be
similar to what a third party implementation could do. Or
use the same approach Everything.exe uses. Namely, do an
initial scan of a volume, then hook the USN Journal and
listen for every "CreateFile" and "DeleteFile" to correct
the totals (in a hierarchical fashion). A lot of these
tools use similar approaches. Even Windows Defender hooks
stuff like this, which is why there are so many "gobbling"
sounds ever time you touch a folder. Just yesterday for
example, I was trying to run hashdeep on C: in Windows 10
and it wasn't going very fast. Why ? Windows Defender was
trying to scan every file hashdeep touched. Doubling the
I/O calls. I switched off Windows Defender realtime and
went back to work.

Even if a file contained just file size metadata (like
Everything.exe produces), it would take too long to compute
the total and present the info in under 0.25 seconds. On
the other hand, precomputing every folder value in the
background is possible, but is going to use your CPU (and
your disk drive) to get the info.

Populating the size column on demand would be enough. You
know, like by clicking on the column name "Size". That would
be light years better than right clicking and selecting
"Properties" for each folder.

But that is a pipe dream. The fact we can no longer use the
arrow keys to navigate from the left hand pane so that folder
contents show up in the right-hand pane (like it was in
Windows XP) shows how utterly disinterested Microsoft is in
its file manager's functionality.

I just love using the mouse to view each folder in a group of
folders, point-click point-click point-click point-click
point-click. Using the unbridled mouse for what could be done
so easily with arrow keys helps cut down on errors too...

John Doe wrote:

Populating the size column on demand would be enough. You
know, like by clicking on the column name "Size". That would
be light years better than right clicking and selecting
"Properties" for each folder.

But that is a pipe dream. The fact we can no longer use the
arrow keys to navigate from the left hand pane so that folder
contents show up in the right-hand pane (like it was in
Windows XP) shows how utterly disinterested Microsoft is in
its file manager's functionality.

I just love using the mouse to view each folder in a group of
folders, point-click point-click point-click point-click
point-click. Using the unbridled mouse for what could be done
so easily with arrow keys helps cut down on errors too...

I've found that sometimes file caching helps that folder
size computation. A folder that has just had the size
evaluated, seems to be able to tell you the size easier
during mouse-over.

The question is, what kind of partition-wide scan would
populate the System Read cache well enough, to make it
"always work" for file size ?

The System Read cache is easily flushed, so a scan
at the beginning of the day, won't last all day. And
I don't know of a GUI way to say to Windows, "keep
the metadata size effects from this run, persistent".

Running Everything.exe to create a file manifest,
would be one way to make the system "touch" every
file on the drive.

Everything.exe -create-filelist delete_me.txt "C:"

Then go back and try holding your mouse over a folder
about 20 seconds later or so. Everything runs in the
background while collecting the file size info, so seeing
the command prompt come back is not the end of the run.

The information isn't in the $MFT directly as far as
I know, as just about every utility seeking file size
info scans the drive, directory by directory.

Paul

dadiOH wrote:


"John Doe" wrote in message
news wrote:

"T" wrote
John Doe wrote:

Please refresh my memory...

Why is the file manager so lame it cannot display folder
size?

Right click on it and select "properties" at the bottom.

Or just look at the status bar.

Huh? I am looking at the status bar, it says...

"11 items, 1 item selected"

See mine...
https://imgur.com/a/lddtK

It shows the size of the files within the selected folder but does
not recurse folders within the folder.

dadiOH,


It looks like you have "Classic Shell" installed.

Do you?

Just curious...

JT


--

John Doe wrote:
I was not referring only to "it", I was referring to some of
the stuff the poster snipped, like the fact file manager
sometimes loses focus after files have been deleted.

I can tell Microsoft recently rewrote some of Windows.

Some of the current nonsense is apparently related to
Microsoft trying to turn the desktop into a smartphone.




=?UTF-8?B?Li4ud8Khw7HCp8KxwqTDsQ==?= wrote:

John Doe wrote:

Someone at Microsoft just decided that file manager, a very
important part of Windows since its beginning, needed to be
messed up even more. Probably part of the effort to turn the
desktop into a smartphone.


Unlikely smartphone related. It was changed in 2006, over 11 years ago.
If you still think it related to smartphones or even Windows Phone
related - not quite, since Windows Phone was introduced in 2010. Some
might incorrectly think that MSFT had the foresight to change something
4 yrs in advance for smartphone reasons, but(they) would be wrong.

Fyi...in 2006 MSFT was still focusing on methods to sync contacts and
calendar data from the web to the pc, not a hand-held device.
Syncability for contacts and calendar excluding Outlook to an iPod(which
existed since 1st gen iPod) didn't appear until 2008 to coincide with
Windows 7 beta. i.e. Smartphone related features and design purposing
for integration came later.



Well...this(smartphone-ization) is one of those topics that most get
wrong on the timing blaming MSFT Win10 o/s.

The timeline predates Win10, 8.1, and 8.0.

The proper term, imo, is not smartphone related per se but data and
information integration.

Integration first appearing in Windows Messenger, Spaces, Folder Share/
Mesh - all eventually rebranded with additional integration as the
Windows Live Essentials suite - Mail, Messenger, Mesh, SkyDrive, Photo
Gallery, Movie Maker)

Messenger and Spaces combined instant messaging contacts with Spaces
social networking contacts, online storage and file/picture sharing.
Windows Live Mail integration included Contacts, Calendar with Hotmail
email accounts and additionally with SkyDrive and Messenger.
PhotoGallery integrated with SkyDrive and Live Mail. Mesh with
Folder/File sychronization.
- development for all the above started in 2006 in preparation for the
Windows 7 o/s era yet still providing the integration potential on and
during the life of both XP and Vista o/s.

Integration of data across Windows pcs - email, contacts, social
networking, calendar, pictures/video, messaging, and file sharing.

Why did it go in this direction?
Easy - MSFT had over 0.5 Billion users of Messenger and Hotmail on the
planet as a telemetry foundation for collecting usage patterns on/for
integration and syncability on over 250 million shared pieces of data
per month.

Integration of data/information was the primary focus for Windows 8x/10
but unlike earlier o/s which required installable MSFT software - the
features included. The smartphone being just another device eventually
capable of supporting that same integration of data/information.

I.e. if one thinks the efforts are centered on turning the desktop into
a smartphone, they completely misunderstood or ignored MSFT's goal and
objective for the last 12 years for both consumer and business users.



--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ
msft mvp 2007-2016, insider mvp 2016-2018

Zaidy036 wrote:
On 2/13/2018 2:41 AM, ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:
Big Al wrote:
On 2/12/2018 12:00 PM, ...winston wrote:
if one configures File Explorer to 'Display file size information in
folder tips' and 'Show pop-up description for folder and desktop items'

Then just how does one do this?

One can find the above configuration options via
File Explorer/View/Options/View/Advanced Settings

What version of Windows are using? Not in my 7 Home.


This is a Windows 10 newsgroup so I must be using Win10.

But since you asked in reference to configuration options for showing
folder size - those same settings exist on Windows 7(both Home and Pro)
in Windows 7 Windows Explorer's settings enabling the 'folder tips' popup


--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ
msft mvp 2007-2016, insider mvp 2016-2018

"JT" wrote in message
news
dadiOH wrote:


"John Doe" wrote in message
news wrote:

"T" wrote
John Doe wrote:

Please refresh my memory...

Why is the file manager so lame it cannot display folder
size?

Right click on it and select "properties" at the bottom.

Or just look at the status bar.

Huh? I am looking at the status bar, it says...

"11 items, 1 item selected"

See mine...
https://imgur.com/a/lddtK

It shows the size of the files within the selected folder but does
not recurse folders within the folder.

dadiOH,


It looks like you have "Classic Shell" installed.

Do you?

Yep

On 2/14/2018 5:23 AM, ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:
Zaidy036 wrote:
On 2/13/2018 2:41 AM, ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:
Big Al wrote:
On 2/12/2018 12:00 PM, ...winston wrote:
if one configures File Explorer to 'Display file size information in
folder tips' and 'Show pop-up description for folder and desktop
items'

Then just how does one do this?

One can find the above configuration options via
File Explorer/View/Options/View/Advanced Settings

What version of Windows are using? Not in my 7 Home.


This is a Windows 10 newsgroup so I must be using Win10.

But since you asked in reference to configuration options for showing
folder size - those same settings exist on Windows 7(both Home and Pro)
in Windows 7 Windows Explorer's settings enabling the 'folder tips' popup


I realized, after I posted, that I was commenting in the wrong group so
thank you for reminding me to use my poor eyes on the small print
instead of an automatic reaction to go to Properties.

I also have a cheap Win 10 laptop so I read both Win 7 and 10 news groups.



--
Zaidy036