What OS do most non-USA computers come with nowadays?

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On 2017-02-01 7:23 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 00:17:32 -0000, Jonathan N. Little
wrote:

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 00:03:33 -0000, Jonathan N. Little
wrote:

Mayayana wrote:
"Jonathan N. Little" wrote

| Thunderbird is as bad as Firefox. If one doesn't know
how it all | works then a TBird user will lose all of
their past email when their | computer fails. | How so?
If you backup your OS user profile the POP mail is there.
.... |
C:\Users\Me\AppData\Roaming\Thunderbird\Profiles\p rofiles.ini
= | /home/me/.thunderbird/profiles.ini

Exactly what I'm saying. You have to know about the
locations of the files.

No it is where it should be under the the user's profile,
independent from the application's install directory. Backup
your profile and you have your data saved. Where precisely
each OS determines where user data is stored is another
thing. The initial criticism was the inconsistent history of
Windows applications NOT storing user data in the user's
profile.

That's the fault of the programmer of the application, not of
windows.


The pressure to store in the cryptic binary registry is Windows
fault though...

No it isn't. It's better to have everything in one place than
scattered in .ini files.

..ini files are at least more logical. People EXPECT the configuration
settings of one application to either be within that app or in the
same folder. If it is in a completely different location, fixing an
issue is suddenly a lot harder for someone who is unfamiliar with how
Windows is.

- --
Silver Slimer
Fingerprint: e58428b2633833a3b0c9bb7e40819166642245b7
Gab.ai: @silverslimer

Boycotting mainstream media in all of its forms
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On 2017-02-01 7:49 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 00:42:50 -0000, Jonathan N. Little
wrote:

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 00:17:32 -0000, Jonathan N. Little
wrote:

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 00:03:33 -0000, Jonathan N. Little
wrote:

Mayayana wrote:
"Jonathan N. Little" wrote

| Thunderbird is as bad as Firefox. If one doesn't
know how it all | works then a TBird user will lose
all of their past email when their | computer fails.
| How so? If you backup your OS user profile the POP
mail is there. .... |
C:\Users\Me\AppData\Roaming\Thunderbird\Profiles\p rofiles.ini
= | /home/me/.thunderbird/profiles.ini

Exactly what I'm saying. You have to know about the
locations of the files.

No it is where it should be under the the user's profile,
independent from the application's install directory.
Backup your profile and you have your data saved. Where
precisely each OS determines where user data is stored is
another thing. The initial criticism was the
inconsistent history of Windows applications NOT storing
user data in the user's profile.

That's the fault of the programmer of the application, not
of windows.


The pressure to store in the cryptic binary registry is
Windows fault though...

No it isn't. It's better to have everything in one place than
scattered in .ini files.



And there goes portability...

Never used portability, what's it for?

Transferring an application you like from one computer to the other
without needing to explicitly install it on that system. We used to be
able to do that in the days of DOS and Windows 3.1 but the fun ended
with Windows 95.

Portable apps have made a return though...

- --
Silver Slimer
Fingerprint: e58428b2633833a3b0c9bb7e40819166642245b7
Gab.ai: @silverslimer

Boycotting mainstream media in all of its forms
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On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 17:05:13 -0000, Silver Slimer wrote:

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Hash: SHA256

On 2017-02-01 7:23 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 00:17:32 -0000, Jonathan N. Little
wrote:

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 00:03:33 -0000, Jonathan N. Little
wrote:

Mayayana wrote:
"Jonathan N. Little" wrote

| Thunderbird is as bad as Firefox. If one doesn't know
how it all | works then a TBird user will lose all of
their past email when their | computer fails. | How so?
If you backup your OS user profile the POP mail is there.
.... |
C:\Users\Me\AppData\Roaming\Thunderbird\Profiles\p rofiles.ini
= | /home/me/.thunderbird/profiles.ini

Exactly what I'm saying. You have to know about the
locations of the files.

No it is where it should be under the the user's profile,
independent from the application's install directory. Backup
your profile and you have your data saved. Where precisely
each OS determines where user data is stored is another
thing. The initial criticism was the inconsistent history of
Windows applications NOT storing user data in the user's
profile.

That's the fault of the programmer of the application, not of
windows.


The pressure to store in the cryptic binary registry is Windows
fault though...

No it isn't. It's better to have everything in one place than
scattered in .ini files.

.ini files are at least more logical. People EXPECT the configuration
settings of one application to either be within that app or in the
same folder. If it is in a completely different location, fixing an
issue is suddenly a lot harder for someone who is unfamiliar with how
Windows is.

Why would they expect it to be there? Having all settings in one place makes many things easier. Backing up for one.

--
If you can't beat your computer at chess, try kick boxing.

On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 17:06:26 -0000, Silver Slimer wrote:

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Hash: SHA256

On 2017-02-01 7:49 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 00:42:50 -0000, Jonathan N. Little
wrote:

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 00:17:32 -0000, Jonathan N. Little
wrote:

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 00:03:33 -0000, Jonathan N. Little
wrote:

Mayayana wrote:
"Jonathan N. Little" wrote

| Thunderbird is as bad as Firefox. If one doesn't
know how it all | works then a TBird user will lose
all of their past email when their | computer fails.
| How so? If you backup your OS user profile the POP
mail is there. .... |
C:\Users\Me\AppData\Roaming\Thunderbird\Profiles\p rofiles.ini
= | /home/me/.thunderbird/profiles.ini

Exactly what I'm saying. You have to know about the
locations of the files.

No it is where it should be under the the user's profile,
independent from the application's install directory.
Backup your profile and you have your data saved. Where
precisely each OS determines where user data is stored is
another thing. The initial criticism was the
inconsistent history of Windows applications NOT storing
user data in the user's profile.

That's the fault of the programmer of the application, not
of windows.


The pressure to store in the cryptic binary registry is
Windows fault though...

No it isn't. It's better to have everything in one place than
scattered in .ini files.



And there goes portability...

Never used portability, what's it for?

Transferring an application you like from one computer to the other
without needing to explicitly install it on that system. We used to be
able to do that in the days of DOS and Windows 3.1 but the fun ended
with Windows 95.

Moving it about would break copyright, they wouldn't like that.

Portable apps have made a return though...

--
NEWSFLASH!!! Bouncing elephantiasis woman destroys central Portsmouth

"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote

| Because it is. If you need a screwdriver you don't
| need to have a pickup truck full of toolboxes. You
| just need a screwdriver. There's no sense copying the
| same 5 GB of system files every time you back up a
| 10 KB text file.
|
| But you're not doing it by hand, the computer does it for you and doesn't
mind backing up the whole drive.
|
Speak for yourself. I have data and disk images
organized, and only back up what's needed. I back
up data to a second disk, to DVDs, and occasionally
to a safe deposit box. I don't know what you mean
by "the computer does it for you". System Restore?
Some kind of Windows Backup
utility? What happens when SR gets corrupt or the
disk dies or you find you can't really afford all that
wasted space for extra copies of OS snapshots that
hold only a few MB of actual file changes? Or your
computer is burned out by a power surge? Or there's
a fire in your office? What "the computer does for you"
is not backup. It's limited, emergency recovery for
people who don't understand backup.

On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 18:13:43 -0000, Mayayana wrote:

"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote

| Because it is. If you need a screwdriver you don't
| need to have a pickup truck full of toolboxes. You
| just need a screwdriver. There's no sense copying the
| same 5 GB of system files every time you back up a
| 10 KB text file.
|
| But you're not doing it by hand, the computer does it for you and doesn't
mind backing up the whole drive.
|
Speak for yourself. I have data and disk images
organized, and only back up what's needed. I back
up data to a second disk, to DVDs, and occasionally
to a safe deposit box.

Easier just to back up everything.

I don't know what you mean
by "the computer does it for you".

I mean whatever you're backing up, it just costs you a few clicks. The hard work is done by the computer, so it doesn't matter if it's a huge amount of data. All you have to do personally is set it off.

System Restore?
Some kind of Windows Backup
utility? What happens when SR gets corrupt or the
disk dies or you find you can't really afford all that
wasted space for extra copies of OS snapshots that
hold only a few MB of actual file changes? Or your
computer is burned out by a power surge? Or there's
a fire in your office? What "the computer does for you"
is not backup. It's limited, emergency recovery for
people who don't understand backup.

I backup the whole disk. Therefore I can recover ANYTHING from it.

--
United Airlines Flight Attendant: "Ladies and Gentlemen, as you are all now painfully aware, our Captain has landed in Seattle. From all of us at United Airlines we'd like to thank you for flying with us today and please be very careful as you open the overhead bins as you may be killed by falling luggage that shifted during our so called "touch down."

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On 2017-02-02 1:11 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 17:05:13 -0000, Silver Slimer
wrote:

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On 2017-02-01 7:23 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 00:17:32 -0000, Jonathan N. Little
wrote:

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 00:03:33 -0000, Jonathan N. Little
wrote:

Mayayana wrote:
"Jonathan N. Little" wrote

| Thunderbird is as bad as Firefox. If one doesn't
know how it all | works then a TBird user will lose
all of their past email when their | computer fails.
| How so? If you backup your OS user profile the POP
mail is there. .... |
C:\Users\Me\AppData\Roaming\Thunderbird\Profiles\p rofiles.ini


= | /home/me/.thunderbird/profiles.ini

Exactly what I'm saying. You have to know about the
locations of the files.

No it is where it should be under the the user's
profile, independent from the application's install
directory. Backup your profile and you have your data
saved. Where precisely each OS determines where user data
is stored is another thing. The initial criticism was the
inconsistent history of Windows applications NOT storing
user data in the user's profile.

That's the fault of the programmer of the application, not
of windows.


The pressure to store in the cryptic binary registry is
Windows fault though...

No it isn't. It's better to have everything in one place than
scattered in .ini files.

.ini files are at least more logical. People EXPECT the
configuration settings of one application to either be within
that app or in the same folder. If it is in a completely
different location, fixing an issue is suddenly a lot harder for
someone who is unfamiliar with how Windows is.

Why would they expect it to be there? Having all settings in one
place makes many things easier. Backing up for one.

I'll just agree to disagree.

- --
Silver Slimer
Fingerprint: e58428b2633833a3b0c9bb7e40819166642245b7
Gab.ai: @silverslimer

Boycotting mainstream media in all of its forms
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"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote

| I don't know what you mean
| by "the computer does it for you".
|
| I mean whatever you're backing up, it just costs you a few clicks. The
hard work is done by the computer, so it doesn't matter if it's a huge
amount of data. All you have to do personally is set it off.
|
| System Restore?
| Some kind of Windows Backup
| utility? What happens when SR gets corrupt or the
| disk dies or you find you can't really afford all that
| wasted space for extra copies of OS snapshots that
| hold only a few MB of actual file changes? Or your
| computer is burned out by a power surge? Or there's
| a fire in your office? What "the computer does for you"
| is not backup. It's limited, emergency recovery for
| people who don't understand backup.
|
| I backup the whole disk. Therefore I can recover ANYTHING from it.
|

You keep saying that but don't offer any details
of how it's backing up and don't seem to understand
my questions about the dependability. Do you even
know how it's backing up? If your computer is stolen
today or a power surge burnns out the computer and
all attached hardware, will your "easy few clicks" get
back everything lost? If not then it's not backup.

Ann Dunham wrote:
Nil replied:

Then TurboTax shows, up, and they do the same crap. So does Adobe.
And Mozilla. And Microsoft. And Apple. And Steam. And McAfee. And
so on.

No, they don't. I can't remember the last time I saw a program that
either lets you change its default save location or will remember your
most recently used save location.

Your sentence is confusing, so, I will clarify and repeat the wisdom of
what I was trying to impart.

1. Every program has a default location for itself, and its files.
2. If you use those default locations, you're doomed.
3. Why?

Because, in a word, it's a jungle out there.

Trying to make sense of "My Documents" is like trying to make sense out of
Times Square New York. You can't. Every brand literally screams out at you,
and every brand makes different decisions, such that, in the end, it's a
jungle in the "Program Files" and "Documents and Settings" and menu
hierarchies.

My premise is that you can easily live with a Program Files hierarchy that
looks like the jungle that Times Square New York is, with every brand
screaming for attention, but to live with that jungle in your "Documents
and Settings" and menu hierarchy is, IMHO, the wrong approach.

What you do is create your own calm and peaceful Central Park, completely
outside (but not very far from) all that disorganized brand-centric clutter
of Times Square.

The zen of it all is the beauty of its simplicity.
Rule #1:
Always store data in your own hierarchy, separate from MS defaults!

The rule is simple.
Never (ever!) use any directory that Microsoft provides by
default.

That's just silly and creates more work for you.

I understand that the philosophy escapes you in so much as you don't
understand how calming and efficient it is to be able to maintain your own
directory structure where NOTHING messes it up.

What you prefer, and it's what most people prefer, I don't disagree, is to
start with something as cluttered as Times Square is, with brands being
shouted about in every hierarchy, sometimes one level deep, other times
two, three, four floors deep into branding, and then, you prefer to hollow
out your own alley where you can try to keep your data in some semblance of
order, amidst the chaos of what is all around you.

In effect, we agree.

You try to hollow out a small alley out of the chaos that is Times Square.
I simply set up a completely separate Central Park outside (but not far)
from the chaos that is Times Square.

If I were building a house, it would be in the middle of Central Park.
You'd put it in the middle of Times Square.

That's the philosophical difference between what you wrote and what I
wrote. Most people are like you are. Extremely few are like I am.

Probably, in fact, there are zero other people on this newsgroup who would
do what I would do, for the simple and pure zen beauty of being able to
find all your data in an instant, and being able to back it up in a flash
and never missing a single piece of important data without the need of a
single search engine.

I'm just different that way.
I have thought about the problem. And I solved it in a very simple way.

Rule #1:
Always store data & menus in your own hierarchy, separate from MS defaults!


Gee, I understand Most of Windows and never had a problem with Times
Square. You just have
to pay attention to what is going on with an open mind and be willing to
learn.

--
Ken1943

On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 18:27:21 -0000, Mayayana wrote:

"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote

| I don't know what you mean
| by "the computer does it for you".
|
| I mean whatever you're backing up, it just costs you a few clicks. The
hard work is done by the computer, so it doesn't matter if it's a huge
amount of data. All you have to do personally is set it off.
|
| System Restore?
| Some kind of Windows Backup
| utility? What happens when SR gets corrupt or the
| disk dies or you find you can't really afford all that
| wasted space for extra copies of OS snapshots that
| hold only a few MB of actual file changes? Or your
| computer is burned out by a power surge? Or there's
| a fire in your office? What "the computer does for you"
| is not backup. It's limited, emergency recovery for
| people who don't understand backup.
|
| I backup the whole disk. Therefore I can recover ANYTHING from it.
|

You keep saying that but don't offer any details
of how it's backing up and don't seem to understand
my questions about the dependability. Do you even
know how it's backing up? If your computer is stolen
today or a power surge burnns out the computer and
all attached hardware, will your "easy few clicks" get
back everything lost? If not then it's not backup.

It's a direct copy of every file on the disk, so yes.

--
Why are Jewish Men circumcised? Because Jewish women don't like anything that isn't 20% off.

On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 18:25:17 -0000, Silver Slimer wrote:

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Hash: SHA256

On 2017-02-02 1:11 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 17:05:13 -0000, Silver Slimer
wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256

On 2017-02-01 7:23 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 00:17:32 -0000, Jonathan N. Little
wrote:

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 00:03:33 -0000, Jonathan N. Little
wrote:

Mayayana wrote:
"Jonathan N. Little" wrote

| Thunderbird is as bad as Firefox. If one doesn't
know how it all | works then a TBird user will lose
all of their past email when their | computer fails.
| How so? If you backup your OS user profile the POP
mail is there. .... |
C:\Users\Me\AppData\Roaming\Thunderbird\Profiles\p rofiles.ini


= | /home/me/.thunderbird/profiles.ini

Exactly what I'm saying. You have to know about the
locations of the files.

No it is where it should be under the the user's
profile, independent from the application's install
directory. Backup your profile and you have your data
saved. Where precisely each OS determines where user data
is stored is another thing. The initial criticism was the
inconsistent history of Windows applications NOT storing
user data in the user's profile.

That's the fault of the programmer of the application, not
of windows.


The pressure to store in the cryptic binary registry is
Windows fault though...

No it isn't. It's better to have everything in one place than
scattered in .ini files.

.ini files are at least more logical. People EXPECT the
configuration settings of one application to either be within
that app or in the same folder. If it is in a completely
different location, fixing an issue is suddenly a lot harder for
someone who is unfamiliar with how Windows is.

Why would they expect it to be there? Having all settings in one
place makes many things easier. Backing up for one.

I'll just agree to disagree.

You're admitting you're not sure :-)

--
Interesting fact number 476:
80% of millionaires drive used cars.

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Hash: SHA256

On 2017-02-02 4:55 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 18:25:17 -0000, Silver Slimer
wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256

On 2017-02-02 1:11 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 17:05:13 -0000, Silver Slimer
wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256

On 2017-02-01 7:23 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 00:17:32 -0000, Jonathan N. Little
wrote:

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 00:03:33 -0000, Jonathan N. Little
wrote:

Mayayana wrote:
"Jonathan N. Little" wrote

| Thunderbird is as bad as Firefox. If one
doesn't know how it all | works then a TBird user
will lose all of their past email when their |
computer fails. | How so? If you backup your OS
user profile the POP mail is there. .... |
C:\Users\Me\AppData\Roaming\Thunderbird\Profiles\p rofiles.ini




= | /home/me/.thunderbird/profiles.ini

Exactly what I'm saying. You have to know about
the locations of the files.

No it is where it should be under the the user's
profile, independent from the application's install
directory. Backup your profile and you have your
data saved. Where precisely each OS determines where
user data is stored is another thing. The initial
criticism was the inconsistent history of Windows
applications NOT storing user data in the user's
profile.

That's the fault of the programmer of the application,
not of windows.


The pressure to store in the cryptic binary registry is
Windows fault though...

No it isn't. It's better to have everything in one place
than scattered in .ini files.

.ini files are at least more logical. People EXPECT the
configuration settings of one application to either be
within that app or in the same folder. If it is in a
completely different location, fixing an issue is suddenly a
lot harder for someone who is unfamiliar with how Windows
is.

Why would they expect it to be there? Having all settings in
one place makes many things easier. Backing up for one.

I'll just agree to disagree.

You're admitting you're not sure :-)

Well, I've gotten used to the registry so I don't complain about it
much anymore (not like in 1995). However, I prefer the Linux approach
of every important configuration file being in a hidden directory of
user's home folder. If there is a problem, you can easily just delete
that application's .conf file and you're back to square one. It's not
so simple with the registry.


- --
Silver Slimer
Fingerprint: e58428b2633833a3b0c9bb7e40819166642245b7
Gab.ai: @silverslimer

Boycotting mainstream media in all of its forms
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On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 22:45:55 -0000, Silver Slimer wrote:

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On 2017-02-02 4:55 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 18:25:17 -0000, Silver Slimer
wrote:

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On 2017-02-02 1:11 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 17:05:13 -0000, Silver Slimer
wrote:

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On 2017-02-01 7:23 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 00:17:32 -0000, Jonathan N. Little
wrote:

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 00:03:33 -0000, Jonathan N. Little
wrote:

Mayayana wrote:
"Jonathan N. Little" wrote

| Thunderbird is as bad as Firefox. If one
doesn't know how it all | works then a TBird user
will lose all of their past email when their |
computer fails. | How so? If you backup your OS
user profile the POP mail is there. .... |
C:\Users\Me\AppData\Roaming\Thunderbird\Profiles\p rofiles.ini




= | /home/me/.thunderbird/profiles.ini

Exactly what I'm saying. You have to know about
the locations of the files.

No it is where it should be under the the user's
profile, independent from the application's install
directory. Backup your profile and you have your
data saved. Where precisely each OS determines where
user data is stored is another thing. The initial
criticism was the inconsistent history of Windows
applications NOT storing user data in the user's
profile.

That's the fault of the programmer of the application,
not of windows.


The pressure to store in the cryptic binary registry is
Windows fault though...

No it isn't. It's better to have everything in one place
than scattered in .ini files.

.ini files are at least more logical. People EXPECT the
configuration settings of one application to either be
within that app or in the same folder. If it is in a
completely different location, fixing an issue is suddenly a
lot harder for someone who is unfamiliar with how Windows
is.

Why would they expect it to be there? Having all settings in
one place makes many things easier. Backing up for one.

I'll just agree to disagree.

You're admitting you're not sure :-)

Well, I've gotten used to the registry so I don't complain about it
much anymore (not like in 1995). However, I prefer the Linux approach
of every important configuration file being in a hidden directory of
user's home folder.

So not having it in the program folder like was previously mentioned?

If there is a problem, you can easily just delete
that application's .conf file and you're back to square one. It's not
so simple with the registry.

Yes it is.

--
Why is it that when you transport something by car, it's called a shipment, but when you transport something by ship, it's called cargo?

"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote

| It's a direct copy of every file on the disk, so yes.

A direct copy how? Where? By what? You don't
know? You have a button that says "Backup"
that someone showed you? If you do know how
it works then why so secretive?

On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 23:06:42 -0000, Mayayana wrote:

"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote

| It's a direct copy of every file on the disk, so yes.

A direct copy how? Where? By what? You don't
know? You have a button that says "Backup"
that someone showed you? If you do know how
it works then why so secretive?

No, I copy the files manually using xxcopy. I used to use disk imaging software, but that no longer works as the sector sizes are different.

--
What does Michael Jackson like about twenty-eight year olds?
The fact that there are twenty of them.