WinXP user bought first desktop Win7 - Win10 Pro

Rene Lamontagne wrote in news
Hi Paul, Read your post and noted That CPUZ is not working on your
Creator Win 10, Just ran my Version 1.77 64 bit and it is running OK.
A new version was available, 1.79 64 bit, so I downloaded and installed
it and it runs fine also.
HTH

I had to look up what "cpuz" was.

Is this the canonical location?
http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/cpu-z.html

CPU-Z is a freeware that gathers information on some of the main
devices of your system :
Processor name and number, codename, process, package, cache levels.
Mainboard and chipset.
Memory type, size, timings, and module specifications (SPD).
Real time measurement of each core's internal frequency, memory
frequency.

Seems useful.
Is CPU-Z better than SiSoft Sandra?

John & Jane Doe wrote:
Rene Lamontagne wrote in news
Hi Paul, Read your post and noted That CPUZ is not working on your
Creator Win 10, Just ran my Version 1.77 64 bit and it is running OK.
A new version was available, 1.79 64 bit, so I downloaded and installed
it and it runs fine also.
HTH

I had to look up what "cpuz" was.

Is this the canonical location?
http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/cpu-z.html

CPU-Z is a freeware that gathers information on some of the main
devices of your system :
Processor name and number, codename, process, package, cache levels.
Mainboard and chipset.
Memory type, size, timings, and module specifications (SPD).
Real time measurement of each core's internal frequency, memory
frequency.

Seems useful.
Is CPU-Z better than SiSoft Sandra?

It presents basic information about hardware.
Details like memory clock and timing.

(The ZIP version is portable)
http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/cpu-z.html

A partner for it would be almico.com Speedfan, which
gives voltages and temperatures as measured by the hardware
monitor on the SuperI/O chip, and by the digital sensor
on the CPU.

http://www.almico.com/speedfan452.exe

GPUZ from Techspot.com gives details on the GPU hardware,
including a graph of GPU temperature (which Speedfan has as well).

http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/SysInfo/GPU-Z/

There are several complementary tools for hardware like that.

*******

Sandra is a much larger suite that includes benchmarks.

Sandra may not drill as deep as some of the direct-hardware-access
programs (might read DMI table from BIOS). But the benchmarks are
still useful.

Paul

John & Jane Doe wrote:
Paul wrote in news
64-bit OS - runs 64-bit and 32-bit programs
- there are two Program Files folders for them

32-bit OS - runs 32-bit and 16-bit programs
- there is one Program Files folder

I'm probably unique in that almost all my programs are downloaded off the
web, so, while I maintain an archive (which has been 32 bit), I'm pretty
sure almost all the programs I use are still online.

I will put them all (32 or 64 bit) into the same c:\my_apps\{hierarchy}\
folder unless that won't work on Windows 10 (but I find it hard to believe
that won't work).

For example:
c:\my_apps\web_browsers\{chrome,firefox,tor,whatev er}
c:\my_apps\pic_editors\{vicman,xnview,gimp,whateve r}
c:\my_apps\file_cleaners\{recuva,ccleaner,duplicat ecleaner,whatever}
c:\my_apps\disc_burnders\{imgburn,iso2disc,rufus,w hatever}
c:\my_apps\network_clients\{filezilla,cuteftp,open vpn,whatever}
etc.

That's the plan anyway.

Are you saying that the plan of installing programs into where (I think)
they belong won't work on Windows 10 Pro?

Win10 64-bit has

Program Files --- 64-bit install
Program Files (x86) --- 32-bit install

That's just the way that InstallShield or MSI installs
might happen. Separated by the install type.

Firefox is normally the 32-bit version (the 64-bit version
is not strongly promoted), so it will be going in the
second folder, when you use the Firefox installer.

The system loader can sniff executables and tell the
difference between PE32 and PE32+ programs, so I
don't think the system loader needs any arbitrary
separation of executables. But in some cases, the methods
used may rely on a manifest to load the right associated
DLLs. If a program author wants to mix 64 bit programs
with 32 bit plugs, it's up to that program developer to
include the right gubbins to make it work. All the
system loader can do, is sniff the kick-off one,
and deal with things as they go, according to some
set of rules.

Some programs install two versions of the program.
Internet Explorer, on purpose, lives in *both* folders, and
if you want, you can run the 32-bit or the 64-bit version,
by visiting the folder in question and running it. It would
not help, if all that total rubbish, was loaded into a
single folder. Maybe there would even be name clashes,
and the installer would overwrite the previous iexplorer.exe
with the second one. So Internet Explorer is the poster child
for "dual install", if you need an example. I think that's
why they did it, so it would act as a demo.

The folders above are the default system organization
for the installation of applications. If you're a Guru
Of Some Repute, you can break the rules, and see how
it goes.

I personally have no incentive at all to messing with this.
Basically, if a program installs properly, I'm not the
least bit interested in the details. If an installer
screws up, that's when I'm interested.

The two folders above are owned by TrustedInstaller. If you
load programs that insist on storing their preferences in
a file, inside one of those two folders, it still works.
It works, because the system "cheats" and actually stores
user-generated files in a "Roaming" tree of the file
system. And only makes it look to the running program,
that it succeeded. In general terms, the two folders above
are protected by TrustedInstaller ownership, to prevent
malware from overwriting them. If a malware elevates
itself to Administrator, the Administrator group has
Impersonate capability, and it's not that tough to
impersonate a TrustedInstaller token. So the actual degree of
protection here, would seem to include keeping the
user from messing around, rather than providing
bulletproof malware protection.

Nothing prevents portable programs from working
in Windows 10. You can still run sha1sum.exe from
your Downloads folder if you want. But if actual
installers are used, the advantage is, the %path%
includes the above two folders, so it's more likely
the executable will be located. Your Downloads folder
is not normally included in the PATH variable.

In Powershell, if you attempt to run a program in the
current working directory (like sha1sum.exe), it
won't run unless you give a more explicit path.
Like ".\sha1sum.exe". But the regular path, the one
Command Prompt would use, or the shell would use,
continue to support execution from the current
working directory. The Powershell behavioral change
is a Unix affectation, meant to annoy and increase the
amount of "red fail text" in your Powershell window.

Most of the security in Windows, is security theater, and
my jaded opinion is, it's there just to annoy people :-)
Some of the more advanced features, used in Enterprise
settings, and needing some setup, can provide a measure
of information security for businesses (not being able to
copy text from a document with a Secret classification).
But when I just want "sha1sum.exe" to run, none of those
features would have anything to do with it.

Enjoy,
Paul

In article , lid says...
Enjoy,

I did indeed.
A most informative and well written explanation.
Thank you.

On 06/05/2017 09:39, John & Jane Doe wrote:
David B. wrote in news
I repeat: *Who taught YOU that word*?!!!

The CIA, DIA, FBI, NSA, TSA, etc.

Thank you. :-)

I've only ever noticed ONE other poster use the word!

--
The only people who make a difference are the people who believe they can.

In message , Paul
writes:
[]
In the old days, we used the PrintScreen key for
screen capture, but that's "so 1950's" :-) Nobody
does that any more. The SnippingTool takes some
of the work out of it, but you might still need to
crop your screen shots for best effect. On occasion,
I scale pictures up to make them fill a recipients
screen better. You can have all sorts of fun
Photo-chopping your captures.

https://s29.postimg.org/mo3sbweuv/scaling.gif

Paul
Some of us used (and I still do, being mainly on XP, and even 2000 when
I was with my previous employer who had that built into test sets)
PrintScreen, but also Alt-PrintScreen, which it seems few people know
about. The latter just captures the currently-active window; saves a lot
of snipping.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Quantum particles: the dreams that stuff is made of - David Moser

In message , John & Jane Doe
writes:
Lucifer Morningstar wrote in
:


Do you mean the Windows XP key?
I was wondering if you could use the original Windows 7 key.

When I ran the Magical Jelly Bean Keyfinder, it didn't report anything
about Windows 7. It only reported the Windows 10 Pro keys it found.

On Windows XP, the only two things I need are my directories:
C:\my_progs
C:\my_files

You will also want
C:\documents and settings
C:\windows

My rule is to never put anything into either of those two folders!
C:\Documents and Settings
C:\Windows

I have used Windows XP for many years where I have many times had to do a
clean install where all I need ever are the two directories where I put
things which are the downloaded installers (uninstalled) and my data.

I have been using this XP for many years and have _never_ had to do an
install; since it's OEM (bought new), I don't have the necessary media
anyway. (AFAICR, it never nagged me to make any such either.)

I _do_ Macrium image it from time to time, but have never had to
actually use one, apart from the time the HD died. [I _was_ then about
to do a clean install onto the replacement HD - I do have _some_ install
media, and had been making _backups_ of my _data_ - but I did manage to
unstick the HD, and it ran long enough to take an image. That's when I
started imaging (-:]

I learned many years ago to never put anything in the "Documents and
Settings" folders or the "WINDOWS" folder, because they get so filled up
with junk from the operating system and other programs that they both are
just a big waste bin of sorts.

I'm with you there!

It's like the difference between the "adult bathroom" in the house and the
"kids bathroom" in the house.

The kids bathroom is a mess. Nothing is where it belongs. Toys are
scattered about that don't even belong there. Clothes are all over. Toilet
paper rolls are on the floor. Soap is sitting in the middle of the bathtub.
Shampoo is leaking down the side. The toothpaste never has a cap and it's
squirting out onto the sink, which itself is clogged from toothpaste and
hair and toys.

That's what "Documents and Settings" is like.

I love the analogy!

All the programs & the operating system make an undisciplined mess of it.

[As opposed to a disciplined mess (-:?]

On the other hand, the adult bathroom in the house is exactly as you'd
expect to be. A place for everything, and everything in its place.

That's what my C:\my_files hierarchy is like.
None of the programs or operating system makes a mess of it.

I suppose I do much the same, except that I have partitioned the HD, and
keep all my data (including downloaded installers etc.) on D:, very
rarely even opening C: in Explorer. (Of course I _change_ things on C:
whenever I do anything on the desktop, start menu, and other such.)


I have learned over the years after many Windows crashes to never put any
files that I care about in any other spot than those two locations.

So all the files I care about are in C:\my_files where any file in any
other location of the computer is not a file I will ever care about.

Clearly, by "files I care about", you mean only your data, and
installers you have downloaded. Same as my D:.

Unless you want XP to run.

All I can tell you is that I have had XP for years, which you know means I
have had to do clean installs multiple times and all I ever need are my
data files and my downloaded installers (and any software that came on hard
media).

I know it means _you_ have had to, yes (-:.

We could argue philosophy, where I wish the kids would maintain their
bathroom but kids will never do that so their bathroom isn't even worth
using.

Not everyone has the luxury of two bathrooms. I _think_ I am right in
saying that in the UK, it's still very much the exception: a second
_WC_, which I know in US is sometimes called a bathroom (even though it
doesn't have a bath in it!), _is_ becoming commoner, but from your
lovely description above, you clearly are talking about a second
BATHroom.

It's the same with any folder that software "knows" about since any folder
that Microsoft provides is so filled up with garbage (just like the kid's
bathroom) that it isn't worth dealing with.

Agreed, except when one has to.

I just create my own folders that neither the operating system nor the
programs make a mess of and everything is fine.

My D: partition.

Of course, I ensure that every data file that I care about is saved into
the proper location in C:\my_files\ so I know that I have never
purposefully put any files in C:\Documents and Settings\ and certainly I
don't put anything in C:\WINDOWS.

I certainly rarely put anything in C:\Windows. Very occasionally, I find
a utility that is well-behaved, and runs from a single executable, and I
may put that executable in C:\Windows\utils (or C:\Windows if it _has_
to be), but of course I've saved the installer or zip file I downloaded
on D:.

Every well written program will let you change the default location of its
file storage to C:\my_files\where you want your files to be.

Agreed. (In my case D:\wherever.)

I do understand that most people put things into C:\Documents and Settings\
but I don't know how they find anything in that garbage pile.

They probably only look via an application's "Open" dialog, never using
Explorer at all.

The solution I learned long ago was simply to put things in a place that
the programs don't automatically know about.

It's like not letting the kids use the adult bathroom.
Keeping them out is all it takes to keep it organized and clean.

If you have that luxury. (I guess a similar one in the computer context
would be having a second HD. I could certainly afford one - as I suspect
is the case for most in this newsgroup - but of course a netbook only
has room for one, and an external one would make it less convenient [and
I wouldn't trust a USB stick].)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Quantum particles: the dreams that stuff is made of - David Moser

In message , FreeUser
writes:
To answer your questions.

Get free revo uninstaller.
It will uninstall apps and possibly things the windows uninstaller will
not uninstall properly

Get free Glary utilities (not just the cleaner) and it will clean up
registry, temp files etc. It can be used to wipe all free space and I
would do that on a garage sale laptop for sure.

I run both without problems and they do clean.

THANK YOU for daring to be the person who says they use a registry
cleaner! I will warn you (I don't _think_ I've seen your name here
before) that you are about to get a whole heap of doodoo dumped on you.
I understand the reasoning behind the doodoo-dumpers - basically, the
benefits registry cleaners yield are _usually_ in practice
imperceptible, compared to the damage they _can_ cause, especially as
that damage may not show up for a considerable while, and thus not be
easily immediately linked with having used the cleaner; however, the
extent, frequency, and rapidity of the dumping _does_ get a bit wearing,
to say the least. (I'm surprised they haven't beaten me to this
response.)

CCleaner is OK too but I think Glary does a better job.
If I run CCleaner first, Glary finds a few more things to clean.

(My experience with such things is that, for any two such, the second
one often finds things the first one didn't, whichever order you run
them in.)

Both cleaners will nag from time to time to upgrade to paid version but
I just ignore that. The are worth the nags I think.

All of these have run many many times without damaging a Win XP, Win 7
Pro or Win 10 desktop or laptop PC that I have.

Well worth the money ! (they are free, lol)

Now for additional cleanup, get free Everything utility.
Use it to find all *.JPG, *.BMP, etc images, audio files *.wav, *.mp3
*.mid etc , movie files *.FLV, *.MP4 etc and make sure you have nothing
that would embarrass you.

Interesting thought!

Use Glary file wiper (in the utilities) to get rid of them. One wipe is
really enough to do the job. Multiple wipes are not necessary and
waste time.

Indeed. I suspect, these days, even military methods - reading at the
edge of tracks, reading in an analogue manner to retrieve underlying
variations in the magnetisation (or whatever) - yield a lot less success
than is portrayed on NCIS (-:.

Good Luck.

Ditto. (I wish we had "garage sales" here [UK]; they sound like fun.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Quantum particles: the dreams that stuff is made of - David Moser

Re printscreen,

I have been using Hardcopy , "http://www.gen.hardcopy.de/" for many
years, with XP and Win 7. It will capture and print the screen, or
sections of it, and also save the image to a file, etc.

I have been using the freeware version, but there is a paid version as
well. ( For my uses, I haven't found any limitations with the freeware
version.)


Mike Isaacs


In message , "J. P. Gilliver
(John)" writes
In message , Paul
writes:
[]
In the old days, we used the PrintScreen key for
screen capture, but that's "so 1950's" :-) Nobody
does that any more. The SnippingTool takes some
of the work out of it, but you might still need to
crop your screen shots for best effect. On occasion,
I scale pictures up to make them fill a recipients
screen better. You can have all sorts of fun
Photo-chopping your captures.

https://s29.postimg.org/mo3sbweuv/scaling.gif

Paul
Some of us used (and I still do, being mainly on XP, and even 2000 when
I was with my previous employer who had that built into test sets)
PrintScreen, but also Alt-PrintScreen, which it seems few people know
about. The latter just captures the currently-active window; saves a
lot of snipping.

--
Mike Isaacs

In message , John & Jane Doe
writes
I've used all the freebie office look alikes.

1. They work just fine for creation.
2. They work less fine for reading what others created.
3. And they don't work at all for passing things back and forth.

Sure, simple stuff works but if you've ever tried to communicate with
people using microsoft office documents with any fancy stuff in them,
none of the free tools renders things the same (number 2 above), but
usually the data is there.

It's in number 3 above where the failure is rampant. So, while I don't
like it, the only software I own that is store bought is the Microsoft
Office software.

I'll just say that I use LibreOffice and it has almost always been fine
when dealing with the MS Office files I have to deal with here. They
include legal documents, financial documents and some files related to
financial services, all from companies and govt organisations using up
to date Word etc.
There have been one or two cases, but nothing I have been unable to work
around.

I do have to fiddle round a bit sometimes as my old and superb
email/news software gets stressed by the way it handles newer Office
docs sent as attachments, but that's not a LibreOffice problem.

I maintain this machine on W7 32-bit specifically because I want to run
this email and some other old programs. I did for a time try running
32-bit XP as a virtual machine on a 64-bit Windows 10 machine. It was OK
at first, but soon lost its gloss because of the complexity of things
like file handling. I do use VM's for some special needs - eg I have
some unique hardware with no drivers beyond W98.

I still think you will soon want and need to move away from W10 if you
want to add not phoning home to the list of hassles I put elsewhere
here.

But try it and see for yourself.
--
Bill

On Fri, 5 May 2017 23:37:23 +0100, "David B."
wrote:

On 05/05/2017 22:58, John & Jane Doe wrote:
David B. wrote in :

REDACT - who taught you that word?!!!

Origin and Etymology of redact
Middle English, from Latin redactus, past participle of redigere

First Known Use: 15th century
1350-1400; Middle English Latin redàctus (past participle of redigere to
lead back), equivalent to red- red- + àctus, past participle of agere to
lead;


I repeat: *Who taught YOU that word*?!!!

Hmm, obviously that word gives you a hinky. Can you explain why that is?

On 07/05/2017 17:27, Char Jackson wrote:
On Fri, 5 May 2017 23:37:23 +0100, "David B."
wrote:

On 05/05/2017 22:58, John & Jane Doe wrote:
David B. wrote in :

REDACT - who taught you that word?!!!

Origin and Etymology of redact
Middle English, from Latin redactus, past participle of redigere

First Known Use: 15th century
1350-1400; Middle English Latin redÃ*ctus (past participle of redigere to
lead back), equivalent to red- red- + Ã*ctus, past participle of agere to
lead;


I repeat: *Who taught YOU that word*?!!!

Hmm, obviously that word gives you a hinky. Can you explain why that is?

Yes, of course ...... once you have provide the link to your REAL
identity at LinkedIn.

Will you do that, Char?

--
"Do something wonderful, people may imitate it." (Albert Schweitzer)

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote in :

THANK YOU for daring to be the person who says they use a registry
cleaner! I will warn you (I don't _think_ I've seen your name here
before) that you are about to get a whole heap of doodoo dumped on you.

I realize you were responding to someone else, but I used to manually spit
out the registry (in Win95 days or so) so that I could change the %Program
Files% and %Windows% type directories.

I even had three different temp directories as I recall, based on Windows
three different type of temp directory variables.

Then I gave up. And just stayed away from anything that Windows created
that other programs used.

I still use Ccleaner's registry cleaner though.

CCleaner is OK too but I think Glary does a better job.
If I run CCleaner first, Glary finds a few more things to clean.

What is this Glary stuff?
Searching, I find http://www.glarysoft.com/glary-utilities/

I just put the installer in:
C:\my_progs\cleaners\registry\glary\

I will test it out.\
https://s24.postimg.org/xbf0g7i91/gary.gif

NOTE: It wants to install maiagames whatever that is, and wants me to join
their "customer experience" which sure doesn't sound like something I want
to do.

As always, I pulled the Ethernet plug when I started it, where it tried to
phone home to
http://www.glarysoft.com/update/rele...=6.77.6.92&l=1

And it phones home when you run it each time to "check for updates" which
is impossible to turn off without paying to turn it off it seems.

However, it does have a nice startup manager interface though.
1. startup https://s4.postimg.org/bevbtcodp/gary_startup.gif
2. scheduled https://s7.postimg.org/3tojbahvv/gary_scheduled.gif
3. plugins https://s9.postimg.org/cqu06a7jz/gary_plugins.gif
4. applications https://s11.postimg.org/5hyuf6irn/gary_application.gif
5. windows https://s15.postimg.org/qd48b8ji3/gary_windows.gif

It seems like a nice util, as long as it's run only offline.

(My experience with such things is that, for any two such, the second
one often finds things the first one didn't, whichever order you run
them in.)

Gary seemed to find things that ccleaner did not, so I concur.
I first ran Ccleaner, then Gary's registry cleaner.
Here is the result: https://s21.postimg.org/4xfi2ghyv/gary_registry.gif

NOTE: As a double check, I ran ccleaner after Gary but it found nothing.

Both cleaners will nag from time to time to upgrade to paid version but
I just ignore that. The are worth the nags I think.

I never upgrade until a gun is put to my head.
Or until there is something I know I need.
Which rarely happens.

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote in :

I have used Windows XP for many years where I have many times had to do a
clean install where all I need ever are the two directories where I put
things which are the downloaded installers (uninstalled) and my data.

I have been using this XP for many years and have _never_ had to do an
install; since it's OEM (bought new), I don't have the necessary media
anyway. (AFAICR, it never nagged me to make any such either.)

You have to realize that's like saying you joined the infantry and went to
war and nobody shot at you so why would you need to know how to use a
weapon.

If you have ever had a hard disk crash on you, you'd need to do a new
install.

Also it's like saying you joined the infantry and went to war but never had
to sleep in mud. War is mud. It just is. At least to the infantry it is.

My analogy is that Windows 95/2k/xp gets slower over time, who knows why,
but perhaps because I turn off everything possible, even on Windows, which
might make some programs act screwy. Who knows why, but it does.

A re-install solves all that.
I used to reinstall about once a year but now it's once every three or four
years (unless a disk crashes).

I _do_ Macrium image it from time to time, but have never had to
actually use one, apart from the time the HD died. [I _was_ then about
to do a clean install onto the replacement HD - I do have _some_ install
media, and had been making _backups_ of my _data_ - but I did manage to
unstick the HD, and it ran long enough to take an image. That's when I
started imaging (-:]

Ok. So you did have a HDD die on you. It's normal. It happens to all of us.
Maybe less so with solid state drives nowadays.

I learned many years ago to never put anything in the "Documents and
Settings" folders or the "WINDOWS" folder, because they get so filled up
with junk from the operating system and other programs that they both are
just a big waste bin of sorts.

I'm with you there!

Thanks for understanding. I have nothing against the "concept" of Microsoft
creating a standard place for programs and people to put their "stuff".

But what happens, in implementation, is that it's like using the bathroom
at Grand Central Station in NYC where everyone follows different hygienic
rules. There are cigarette burns in the seat, the toilet paper is strewn
all over the floor, which itself is wet, by what I don't even want to know.
The sinks are filled with paper towels, and the pink soap is globed all
over the mirrors.

The "Documents & Settings" hierarchy is just like Grand Central Station
rest rooms.

I used to clean it up. Constantly.
Then I just gave up.

Any folder Microsoft creates that programs know about is so filled with
garbage that it's just not worth using nor cleaning up.

Luckily, I create my own version of "documents and settings", which works
just fine because I am the only controlling what goes in there and I tell
which apps what to put there.

That's what "Documents and Settings" is like.

I love the analogy!

All the programs & the operating system make an undisciplined mess of it.

[As opposed to a disciplined mess (-:?]

Thanks for the word-use correction!

That's what my C:\my_files hierarchy is like.
None of the programs or operating system makes a mess of it.

I suppose I do much the same, except that I have partitioned the HD, and
keep all my data (including downloaded installers etc.) on D:, very
rarely even opening C: in Explorer. (Of course I _change_ things on C:
whenever I do anything on the desktop, start menu, and other such.)

The start menu, on Windows XP anyway, can easily be a link, so you don't
even have to keep the "real" start menu in the "Documents and Settings"
hierarchy. It's just a link that goes there.

Your real start menu is really a set of folders which have links in them,
which is kept *outside* the mess of Microsoft.

Clearly, by "files I care about", you mean only your data, and
installers you have downloaded. Same as my D:.

There are probably three types of files I care about, but I do agree your
"D:" partition is the same (perhaps better) concept as my c:\my_files and
c:\my_apps directories.

The three types of files we care about a
1. Our actual data files (e.g., powerpoint slides, text files, pictures).
2. Our installers (which are a special case of "data" files).
3. Our rc files (the dot files) which "control" what apps do.

In only the third case is the situation tricky, e.g., Firefox loves to
stick profiles with horrid names in the worst location on the computer, and
Chrome is even a worse offender.

I used to maintain a single bookmarks file, for example, in my data
hierarchy, outside of the Firefox profile directory, but over time, I just
gave up on the concept of maintaining the user.js and .vimrc files in a
place where I want the programs to use them.

Instead, I hone the prefs.js/user.js, for example, and then I keep a
pristine *copy* of the well-honed setup file in my data hierarchy.

So I keep the VIM dotfiles there (.vimrc) and the Firefox user.js file,
etc. in the installer zip files hierarchy, along with the installers.

That way, when I re-install, I have both the installer archived and the
honed setup files, which I replace upon first invocation of the
newly-installed software.

My point is that you *can* keep everything organized - but - sometimes it's
easier to take a different road than what would otherwise be perfect.

All I can tell you is that I have had XP for years, which you know means I
have had to do clean installs multiple times and all I ever need are my
data files and my downloaded installers (and any software that came on hard
media).

I know it means _you_ have had to, yes (-:.

Well. As you can see from my Windows 10 setup questions, I try to *control*
what the operating system does. That means I prevent services from
starting, and I disable anything that wants to start (ccleaner is great for
this) and I delete files that I don't know why they are on my system.

Once, very long ago, probably in Windows 95 days, I deleted the idiotically
located root directory files (pagefile.sys, or something like that,
whatever Windows 95 had at that time), where the result was that I couldn't
reboot (as you can imagine).

So I learned to leave the root files alone for example.
Same with cleaning up the WINDOWS directory.

I used to clean it up manually, but over time, I learned to leave it alone
(much to the delight of virus makers, I'm sure).

I also install free software and test out dozens of types in a week, so,
again, things get messed up over time.

If you keep the whole thing static (which I don't do), then I'm sure it
gets screwed up far less than mine does. Don't even ask what I do on my
mobile devices because you'd be horrified that I have to factory reset
frequently just to get the thing to reboot again.

It's just software. Everything can be easily rebuilt if you plan ahead.
I think 99.9% of people's problems is that they don't plan ahead to wipe
out the entire system to start fresh.


We could argue philosophy, where I wish the kids would maintain their
bathroom but kids will never do that so their bathroom isn't even worth
using.

Not everyone has the luxury of two bathrooms. I _think_ I am right in
saying that in the UK, it's still very much the exception: a second
_WC_, which I know in US is sometimes called a bathroom (even though it
doesn't have a bath in it!), _is_ becoming commoner, but from your
lovely description above, you clearly are talking about a second
BATHroom.

Oh. I'm in the USA. Typical suburbia. Million dollar homes that would cost
only a hundred thousand dollars if they were in Kansas. Silicon Valley
normal stuff. Everyone has a similar setup.

Most have 4 bedrooms (mine has more but 4 is about average).
Most have 2 baths (mine has many more, but it's not typical).
Most have a 2 or 3 car garage with a bit of work space.

Unlike the East Coast, almost none have basements (which is a travesty).
All have fenced-in back yards.
Sometimes a pool.
Almost always a kiddie play set.
And a shed.

Anyway ... the bathrooms are either full or 1/2 where I've never seen a
bathroom not full (but I'm sure they exist) which is a shower or tub in
addition to the toilet and sink.

The only other thing I wish they would have is a bidet. Sigh.

It's the same with any folder that software "knows" about since any folder
that Microsoft provides is so filled up with garbage (just like the kid's
bathroom) that it isn't worth dealing with.

Agreed, except when one has to.

Yes. Sometimes I have to delve into the horrid "My Documents and Settings"
or "Program Files" folders, especially when dealing with arrogant software
developers such as those from Apple or Google or Microsoft who don't
respect your wishes.

For example, if you install iTunes, you can tell it where to go, but it
still put Quicktime and Bonjour in Program Files even if you told it to put
iTunes where you wanted it.

Arrogant stuff like that is mostly by the likes of the big companies with
the worst managed developers like Adobe, Motorola, Mozilla, etc. but even
Belarc did it, so, smaller outfits are as badly disciplined sometimes.

I just create my own folders that neither the operating system nor the
programs make a mess of and everything is fine.

My D: partition.

Yup. Your D partition is *safer* than what I use on C: because the area
most likely to get corrupted is the stuff near the operating system (e.g.,
WINDOWS) so your partition is much safer than my lack of partition.

I agree.

Of course, I ensure that every data file that I care about is saved into
the proper location in C:\my_files\ so I know that I have never
purposefully put any files in C:\Documents and Settings\ and certainly I
don't put anything in C:\WINDOWS.

I certainly rarely put anything in C:\Windows.

I think the only file I habitually put in C:\Windows is my edited version
of the MVP hosts file. If Windows could take a link, I wouldn't even keep
the hosts file there.

Very occasionally, I find
a utility that is well-behaved, and runs from a single executable, and I
may put that executable in C:\Windows\utils (or C:\Windows if it _has_
to be), but of course I've saved the installer or zip file I downloaded
on D:.

I find the smaller downloaded programs far better behaved than those from
the likes of google, microsoft, adobe, etc.


Every well written program will let you change the default location of its
file storage to C:\my_files\where you want your files to be.

Agreed. (In my case D:\wherever.)

Yup. There are corner cases, e.g., the aforementioned Belarc doesn't even
ask, nor citePDF ask, as I recall.

Worse, idiotically designed programs such as iTunes respect your answer for
the main program, but not for the ancilliary programs it installs (e.g.,
bonjour, quicktime, etc.).

Here is a screenshot of my program files directory on Windows XP, where I
never put ANYTHING in there willingly, so every one went in under duress.
https://s22.postimg.org/trsnhyk75/program_files.gif
..
PS: I've heard people deprecate the "print screen" button, but, why?
It is simple, fast, and effective. I just paste into Irfanview & crop.
(Yes, I know about Alt+PrintScreen).

I do understand that most people put things into C:\Documents and Settings\
but I don't know how they find anything in that garbage pile.

They probably only look via an application's "Open" dialog, never using
Explorer at all.

I agree. I've seen, much to my horror, people download stuff right in front
of me, and then spend ten minutes searching for where they put it!

It's always shocking to me that adults act like kids when it comes to
putting their files where they belong.

Bill wrote in :

I still think you will soon want and need to move away from W10 if you
want to add not phoning home to the list of hassles I put elsewhere
here.

But try it and see for yourself.

I do see a *lot* of phoning home that has to be managed in Windows 10!

I had to turn off Cortana because I want ZERO suggestions from a computer!
https://s9.postimg.org/eslcgiqdr/0_suggest_stuff.gif

And I had to turn off "feedback" (e.g., the nsa taps *all* feedback to MS!)
https://s21.postimg.org/h1o237493/1_ask_feedback.gif

Why do programs need access to "contacts" when each maintains it's own?
https://s9.postimg.org/vbef9tmdb/2_ask_contacts.gif

The last thing I want to do is "talk" to my computer and argue with it!
https://s9.postimg.org/oy91ibe6n/3_ask_speech.gif

Why on earth would I want advertisers to be able to target ads to me!
https://s22.postimg.org/hmifjehkx/4_ask_adid.gif

I spent a good couple of hours turning stuff off, but of course, I'm
working from a Windows XP paradigm, which may not be the same for Windows
10.

For example, in the above screenshots, the whole concept of an app asking
for access to my "contacts" is foreign since there is no single contact
list in Windows XP.

So I may need to maintain my own contacts hierarchy file, but that will
only be done if there is truly an advantage on Windows 10 to allowing apps
to access that file without them screwing it up the way MS screws up every
other well organized file.