Did I back up my Android phone correctly (copied phone + card tocomputer)

The Real Bev wrote, on Fri, 21 Nov 2014 23:06:00 -0800:

I just tried to copy the contents of /sdcard0 (internal storage) to my
computer using ES File Explorer. It refused. Damn. That would be so
much simpler than relying on what somebody else thought should be backed
up. Then I could experimentally delete what seems to be useless stuff
(old subdirectories created by apps I uninstalled, etc.) Double damn.

Thanks for reporting that experiment.

Your results are interesting because the way I copied the entire sdcard
and phone memory was simply to plug in the phone via USB to the laptop,
and that mounted the phone and card.

Then, I tried sliding the top-level "phone" and "card" directories over,
but that wouldn't let me, so, I opened them up, and selected everything
and copied that, which worked.

Of course, if something is hidden, I doubt it would have copied over.
And, I doubt the apps are usable as a copy.
And, I don't have a clue if the spreadsheets inside of the Windows
Office apps are actually there, etc., but, I *was* able to copy
over the entire directory.

The nice thing is that all the pictures and videos copied over easily.

The Real Bev wrote, on Fri, 21 Nov 2014 23:06:00 -0800:

I just tried to copy the contents of /sdcard0 (internal storage) to my
computer using ES File Explorer. It refused. Damn. That would be so
much simpler than relying on what somebody else thought should be backed
up. Then I could experimentally delete what seems to be useless stuff
(old subdirectories created by apps I uninstalled, etc.) Double damn.

Thanks for reporting that experiment.

Your results are interesting because the way I copied the entire sdcard
and phone memory was simply to plug in the phone via USB to the laptop,
and that mounted the phone and card.

Then, I tried sliding the top-level "phone" and "card" directories over,
but that wouldn't let me, so, I opened them up, and selected everything
and copied that, which worked.

Of course, if something is hidden, I doubt it would have copied over.
And, I doubt the apps are usable as a copy.
And, I don't have a clue if the spreadsheets inside of the Windows
Office apps are actually there, etc., but, I *was* able to copy
over the entire directory.

The nice thing is that all the pictures and videos copied over easily.

BobbyM wrote, on Sat, 22 Nov 2014 16:31:39 +0900:

So you think because you can't find it on Google Play
that it doesn't exist anymore. LOL

I think we're talking two things.

1. Clearly Kies3 exists for Windows, since I have been using it
all night, as shown in this screenshot below:
http://oi57.tinypic.com/3462ff6.jpg

2. Clearly Kies3 is no longer "available" on Google Play for
newer versions of Android, as evidenced by the fact that I,
and many others, cannot download it from Google Play or
elsewhere directly onto our cellphones because it never shows
up as being available.

BobbyM wrote, on Sat, 22 Nov 2014 16:30:45 +0900:

That is absolutely false.
- Kies 3 supports Android 4.3 or later
- Kies 2.0 supports select devices launched before Sep 13

I think you misinterpret what I said.

1. Kies is no longer available (in any version) as a direct download
onto our newer-version Android phones, as evidenced by the fact
that it does not show up in Google Play for anyone with a newer
version Android cellphone.

2. Kies is available as a download for Windows, as evidenced by
the fact that I have been using it all night

It seems to create a proprietary database though:
http://i62.tinypic.com/k0hxr8.gif

Paul wrote, on Sat, 22 Nov 2014 01:53:33 -0500:

If you still want to test with WinXP, try running
Windows Media Player and looking for an update option.

Hi Paul,
I finally got Kies3 running on Windows by moving to another computer.
http://i57.tinypic.com/3462ff6.jpg

Looking at all that stuff, clearly it backs up some things that I
haven't yet figured out how to back up manually.
http://i57.tinypic.com/2n86i4x.jpg

But, so far, it has been flaky, as evidenced by the fact that when
my PC tried to go to sleep, Kies prevented that (which is fine),
but then Kies refused to work thereafter, and I had to reboot
just to get Kies to start up again (even after killing Kies in
control-alt-del style).

Also, while it backed up just my contacts in seconds:
http://i61.tinypic.com/30cahdg.gif
It did *not* create a VCard file, which is what I had expected.
It created some kind of binary file, which may or may not be
portable across cellphones once I burn it to DVD for archival.

So, the method I already spoke about for archiving contacts
as VCARD files is probably far better than what Kies does for
contacts.

I was shocked by what happened though, when I moved the checkbox
from contacts to s-memo. Who would have thought *that* simple
change would cause Kies3 to check things for almost 45 minutes!
http://i62.tinypic.com/k0hxr8.jpg

Since I already outlined a way to manually archive all your
s-memos in a minute or two as PDFs or JPEGs, it seems counter
productive to try to archive them using Kies3, just to take
over 45 minutes to end up with a proprietary database which
is very likely to be useless to you as an archival on DVD or
USB terabyte drive.

So, my tentative assessment of Kies3, on Windows, so far is:

1. Use it for anything that you can't figure out how to back
up manually, as it does seem to back up things that we have
not yet figured out how to back up manually!

2. Do NOT use it for anything that you already know how to back
up manually, because (a) it seems to put it in a proprietary
format (need to double check that assumption), and (b) it
is dog-ass slow compared to the manual backup, and (c) it's
flaky as hell (but that might just be Windows acting up).

Disclaimer: That's only after a few hours of using Kies3, so,
my opinion will certainly change, as I figure out what it can
do (and what it can't do).

James P. Doolittle wrote, on Sat, 22 Nov 2014 10:09:28 +0000:

The nice thing is that all the pictures and videos copied over easily.

Here's a screenshot of what a manual backup of all directories
on the phone and sdcard looks like, on Windows.
http://i57.tinypic.com/2n86i4x.jpg

I don't recommend that method, but, it's useful for debugging
purposes, while I'm figuring out how to manually back up all
the things that we want to back up.

Currently, my hypothesis is that the best way to back up your
Android phone, such that you can view that data years from
now, and certainly on a different phone (and probably different
operating system), is the following:

1. Manually back up anything that you know how to manually
back up, because that backup will be (a) faster (at least
far faster than Kies3 is), and (b) more portable.

Unfortunately, each type of data has a different manual
backup method (which I outlined earlier in this thread).

2. But, if you do not have a clue how to manually back up
something, then, sure, use Kies3 (or a better solution),
but be advised the results may not be available to you in
the future, years from now, when you no longer have that
same phone or operating system.
http://i57.tinypic.com/3462ff6.jpg

James P. Doolittle wrote:
s|b wrote, on Fri, 21 Nov 2014 14:21:53 +0100:

Anyway, why don't you use KIES to create a backup?

Kies is no longer available in the Google Play store, at least
for newer versions of Android.

Neither is Kies3 (or Kies 3) available for download from the
Google Play Store.

So, Kies does not appear to be a valid option.

Did you ever think that is a PC program available here
http://www.samsung.com/us/kies/

Jim

Jim Dell wrote, on Sat, 22 Nov 2014 09:34:41 -0500:

Did you ever think that is a PC program available here
http://www.samsung.com/us/kies/

Hi Jim,

Yup. Thanks for the pointer.

I have been using Kies3 all night on Windows.
http://i57.tinypic.com/3462ff6.jpg

My tentative conclusion (which will change almost certainly
over the next day or two) is that Kies is probably useful
for things that I have no clue how to back up.

But, my initial impression is that Kies is far (far far)
slower than a manual backup (at least if my s-memo test
is any indicator), and, the results are far (far far)
less portable than those from a manual backup.

Case in point was when I backed up my contacts using
the manual method, I obtained a portable VCARD file,
which can be archived and used years from now, on
whatever phone supports the VCARD format.
http://i57.tinypic.com/2n86i4x.jpg

However, when I backed up just my contacts with Kies,
I ended up with what appears to be a proprietary
binary file - which, if true, would make the entire
backup process a waste of time, since that file (if
it truly is a proprietary binary file) would be nearly
useless in the future, years from now.
http://i61.tinypic.com/30cahdg.gif

Worse still, when I backed up just my S-memos (which
was simply the next thing on the Kies list), it took
over 45 minutes, whereas, my manual backup of all my
s-memos takes only a couple of minutes and results in
portable PDF or JPEG files which can be read years from
now on any platform.
http://i62.tinypic.com/k0hxr8.jpg

Still, Kies3 does seem to back up stuff that I haven't
yet figured out how to back up manually, so, for that
purpose, it has a use.

And, I guess, Kies3 is probably still very useful for
a quick and dirty backup which is expressly for the purpose
of re-imaging a cell phone, and particularly a Samsung
cell phone - which - admittedly, is one purpose of mine
also.

So, Kies3 is good stuff - but - my impression is that it
makes a (nearly) useless archive, but a good temporary
backup.

DISCLAIMER: I've only used Kies3 one night, so, my opinion
will change over the next couple of days.

I tested Kies3 on Windows for the past few hours and I have
one question about backing up the existing applications.

The nice thing about Kies3 on Windows is that it allows us
to select which applications we want backed up:
http://i57.tinypic.com/a2f2g8.png

Then, Kies3 on Windows creates an "apk" file for each app:
http://i59.tinypic.com/fun7li.gif

One question.

If I save these APK files to storage media for a few years,
and then I want to reinstall the app on another phone, how
does one do that?

James P. Doolittle wrote, on Sat, 22 Nov 2014 14:56:05 +0000:

DISCLAIMER: I've only used Kies3 one night, so, my opinion
will change over the next couple of days.

I have a new opinion of Kies3 on Windows!
It's actually pretty good stuff.

I'm not sure why it was so dog slow initially, but, once I rebooted
Windows, rebooted the phone, and ensured I *always* made a new
(empty!) directory for Kies3 to store stuff in, it was actually
pretty fast!

I haven't recovered anything yet, but, what I did this morning was
back up all the apps stored in the internal memory:
http://i57.tinypic.com/a2f2g8.png

These resulted in 1GB of "apk" files, which, I presume I can
simply install on a new phone by sliding them over and somehow
executing them:
http://i59.tinypic.com/fun7li.gif

Next I will try will back up the internal memory miscellaneous
content.

James P. Doolittle wrote, on Sat, 22 Nov 2014 19:50:19 +0000:

Next I will try will back up the internal memory miscellaneous
content.

Again, I was pleasantly surprised with Kies3 Windows software,
which seems to have archived many of my app data files in a
format which can be archived and used on a variety of platforms
in the future!

The trick is to reboot Windows every time, and reboot the phone,
and then make a brand new (empty!) directory to store the stuff
in. This way, Kies3 on Windows doesn't spend forever reading what
you've already backed up.

For this test, I checked only the internal memory misc content:
http://i60.tinypic.com/t4tki9.gif

Soon, I saw many cross-platform native-format files show up,
such as these voice recorder audio files:
http://i58.tinypic.com/qqrig0.gif

Many cross-platform files that I had backed up manually were
also easily available, such as these Google MyTracks KML files:
http://i62.tinypic.com/23stbog.gif

Even the previously problematic "S-Memo" files were backed up
as a cross-platform archivable PDF file format:
http://i58.tinypic.com/2wog21c.gif

So, in summary, Kies3 on Windows has its place in a backup and
archival strategy for Android!

James P. Doolittle wrote:
[...]
So, Kies3 is good stuff - but - my impression is that it
makes a (nearly) useless archive, but a good temporary
backup.

This, in a nutshell, describes your confusion:

You *ask* for *backup*, but you *want* to *archive* stuff.

As you've found out, there's a *big* difference between these concepts
and hence the tools are different. And a tool which is good at doing one
is per definition bad at doing the other.

James P. Doolittle wrote, on Sat, 22 Nov 2014 14:56:05 +0000:

Worse still, when I backed up just my S-memos (which
was simply the next thing on the Kies list), it took
over 45 minutes, whereas, my manual backup of all my
s-memos takes only a couple of minutes and results in
portable PDF or JPEG files which can be read years from
now on any platform.
http://i62.tinypic.com/k0hxr8.jpg

The funny thing here is that there is a *second* way, in
Kies3 on Windows, to back up the S-Memos, and that second
way does back them up to a PDF format, which is portable
and archivable.
http://i58.tinypic.com/2wog21c.gif

So, I'm not sure why they have two methods, one of which
stinks, yet the other of which is perfectly fine, is
a bit confusing.

My advice?

Never hit the first S-Memo button, but do make use of the
second (which is called "internal memory") and all will
be fine.

In addition, always make a new (empty!) directory for any
Kies3 on Windows backup of Android so that Kies doesn't
take forever reading what it has already backed up.

That, and rebooting the Windows PC a few times, seems to
have sped up Kies3 tremendously on my tests today.

Frank Slootweg wrote, on Sat, 22 Nov 2014 20:02:54 +0000:

You *ask* for *backup*, but you *want* to *archive* stuff.

This is fair enough for you to call me out on this.
You are correct.

I originally asked for backup, but, what I want, at the same
time, is archival quality backup.

The fact I had not even realized the desire for both a
temporary backup (prior to resetting the phone to factory
defaults) and for an archival quality backup, has probably
been one reason for some of the initial confusion.

Agreeing with you, I think Kies3 on Windows is probably a
perfectly fine BACKUP-AND-RESTORE solution.
a. You back up your phone to Windows using Kies3 on Windows,
b. You reset your phone to factory defaults,
c. You restore select items from your backup to the phone.

As an archival solution, it's not so good - but - it has
merits in that it does seem to pull out a few things that
are useful in the future.

So, the archival solution is a bit more involved.
a. You back up your phone to Windows using Kies3 on Windows
b. You back up select data using the manual methods show,
c. You burn the results to DVD (or to removable media),
d. In the future, you access those results on any platform.

It will take me a while to write it all up in a step by step
DIY, but, I'm pretty confident we now have a solution to
back up something like 90% of what we need to restore, and,
to archive something like 80% of what we'd like to archive,
for use on any platform (e.g., contacts, documents, gps
favorites, audio recordings, memo notes, etc.).

James P. Doolittle wrote, on Sat, 22 Nov 2014 20:09:05 +0000:

So, I'm not sure why they have two methods, one of which
stinks, yet the other of which is perfectly fine, is
a bit confusing.

To the point of Frank Slootweg, I think the reason for two
backup methods for S-Memos is that the first is for recovering
the binary files so that they are native on Android, while
the second is for long-term archival of the S-Memos in a PDF
format, which is platform independent.

So, both have their place, where (1) is for backup, while (2)
is for long-term archival.