Full Or OEM?

Microsoft changed all that -- in the wake of the Anti-Trust Decisions and
Subsequent Court Cases that have cost Microsoft billions.

Blame the Pre-Bush Supreme Court for your dilemma.

DSH

"Paul Smith" wrote in message
...

"Andy Snook" wrote in message
...

I've transfered OEM licenses in the past, when an old PC dies, say one
that I own I'm not going to forget about the OS I forked out money on and
reuse it, ring up to activate explain my old PC died and I am installing
its copy of XP and they have given me the code, no problem.

So I dont know where you got this idea that they wont let you transfer
from....

Read the EULA.

--
Paul Smith,
Yeovil, UK.
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User.
http://www.windowsresource.net/

*Remove nospam. to reply by e-mail*

Which begs the question -- what is the "licensed device?" The phrase "...
at one time..." indicates that a processor can be changed out and replaced,
as long as the software is used on only two maximum processors within the
"licensed device." So the processor is not the "licensed device."

What does that leave? The CPU case? Just never change the CPU case.


--

*rain*drops*



"Mike Brannigan" Mike.Brannigan@localhost wrote in message
...
D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message
...
Microsoft changed all that -- in the wake of the Anti-Trust Decisions and
Subsequent Court Cases that have cost Microsoft billions.

Blame the Pre-Bush Supreme Court for your dilemma.

DSH

"Paul Smith" wrote in message
...

"Andy Snook" wrote in message
...

I've transfered OEM licenses in the past, when an old PC dies, say one
that I own I'm not going to forget about the OS I forked out money on
and reuse it, ring up to activate explain my old PC died and I am
installing its copy of XP and they have given me the code, no problem.

So I dont know where you got this idea that they wont let you transfer
from....

Read the EULA.

--
Paul Smith,
Yeovil, UK.
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User.
http://www.windowsresource.net/

*Remove nospam. to reply by e-mail*



No the changes were about the sale of generic OEM software to home
builders.
The EULA still clearly states the software is NOT transferable.

Lets look at the EULA from an OEM Windows Vista Home Premium
EULAID:VISTA_RM.0_CONSUMER_OEM_en-US

First and most important point, the one where your OEM software is tied to
the device.

2. INSTALLATION AND USE RIGHTS. The software license is permanently
assigned to the device with which you acquired the software. That device
is the "licensed device."
a. Licensed Device. You may install one copy of the software on the
licensed device. You may use the software on up to two processors on that
device at one time. You may not use the software on any other device.


So there you have it - ties to the licensed device.

Now let's look at the transfer rights.

15. TRANSFER TO A THIRD PARTY. You may transfer the software directly to
a third party only with the licensed device. You may not keep any copies
of the software or any earlier version. Before any permitted transfer,
the other party must agree that this agreement applies to the transfer and
use of the software. The transfer must include the Certificate of
Authenticity label.

So you cannot transfer the software to another device or resell it in any
way other then on the original "licensed device".

This is really very simple stuff that you agree to abide by during
install.
--
Mike Brannigan
"

According to OEM builder guidance I saw, Microsoft considers the
motherboard to be the heart of the "licensed device." You are
allowed to change out the motherboard if it develops a defect,
but only with the exact same model, no upgrade allowed.
If that motherboard is no longer made, you are SOL.

All this is about as useful as discussing how many angels
can fit on the head of a pin. The plain fact is that MS has
instructed its activation reps to allow OEM reactivations as
long as that license isn't in use on more than one computer
at a time.

Gary VanderMolen


"*rain*drops*" wrote in message ...
Which begs the question -- what is the "licensed device?" The phrase "...
at one time..." indicates that a processor can be changed out and replaced,
as long as the software is used on only two maximum processors within the
"licensed device." So the processor is not the "licensed device."

What does that leave? The CPU case? Just never change the CPU case.


--

*rain*drops*



"Mike Brannigan" Mike.Brannigan@localhost wrote in message
...
D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message
...
Microsoft changed all that -- in the wake of the Anti-Trust Decisions and
Subsequent Court Cases that have cost Microsoft billions.

Blame the Pre-Bush Supreme Court for your dilemma.

DSH

"Paul Smith" wrote in message
...

"Andy Snook" wrote in message
...

I've transfered OEM licenses in the past, when an old PC dies, say one
that I own I'm not going to forget about the OS I forked out money on
and reuse it, ring up to activate explain my old PC died and I am
installing its copy of XP and they have given me the code, no problem.

So I dont know where you got this idea that they wont let you transfer
from....

Read the EULA.

--
Paul Smith,
Yeovil, UK.
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User.
http://www.windowsresource.net/

*Remove nospam. to reply by e-mail*



No the changes were about the sale of generic OEM software to home
builders.
The EULA still clearly states the software is NOT transferable.

Lets look at the EULA from an OEM Windows Vista Home Premium
EULAID:VISTA_RM.0_CONSUMER_OEM_en-US

First and most important point, the one where your OEM software is tied to
the device.

2. INSTALLATION AND USE RIGHTS. The software license is permanently
assigned to the device with which you acquired the software. That device
is the "licensed device."
a. Licensed Device. You may install one copy of the software on the
licensed device. You may use the software on up to two processors on that
device at one time. You may not use the software on any other device.


So there you have it - ties to the licensed device.

Now let's look at the transfer rights.

15. TRANSFER TO A THIRD PARTY. You may transfer the software directly to
a third party only with the licensed device. You may not keep any copies
of the software or any earlier version. Before any permitted transfer,
the other party must agree that this agreement applies to the transfer and
use of the software. The transfer must include the Certificate of
Authenticity label.

So you cannot transfer the software to another device or resell it in any
way other then on the original "licensed device".

This is really very simple stuff that you agree to abide by during
install.
--
Mike Brannigan
"

"Gary VanderMolen" wrote in message
...
According to OEM builder guidance I saw, Microsoft considers the
motherboard to be the heart of the "licensed device."

The EULA does not say anything about the motherboard.

Gary VanderMolen wrote:
According to OEM builder guidance I saw, Microsoft considers the
motherboard to be the heart of the "licensed device." You are allowed to
change out the motherboard if it develops a defect, but only with the
exact same model, no upgrade allowed.

That only applies to system builders, not end users who buy a generic
OEM and build their own computer.

Alias

"Alias" wrote in message
...
Gary VanderMolen wrote:
According to OEM builder guidance I saw, Microsoft considers the
motherboard to be the heart of the "licensed device." You are allowed to
change out the motherboard if it develops a defect, but only with the
exact same model, no upgrade allowed.

That only applies to system builders, not end users who buy a generic OEM
and build their own computer.


Which is exactly what I've done.

*rain*drops* wrote:

Which begs the question -- what is the "licensed device?" The phrase
"... at one time..." indicates that a processor can be changed out
and replaced, as long as the software is used on only two maximum
processors within the "licensed device." So the processor is not the
"licensed device."
What does that leave? The CPU case? Just never change the CPU case.


The issue of OEM licenses and what constitutes the same computer is a can of
worms. The EULA doesn't specify what constitutes the same computer, and the
EULA is what you agree to. If I had my druthers, all licenses would be the
same, with the retail rules, and there wouldn't be such a thing as an OEM
license.

There are people here (and elsewhere) who claim that if you change the
motherboard, it's a different computer. Although that certainly sounds
logical, the OEM EULA does *not* say that. Some of these people will point
to a Microsoft site for System Builders (one that can't even be accessed by
the general public) that states that changing the motherboard makes it a
different computer. Again, the EULA, which is what you agree to, does *not*
state that, so as far as I'm concerned, what this site states is irrelevant.

My guess is that if it ever came before a court (which is highly unlikely)
and Microsoft ever pointed to that web site, they'd be laughed out of court.

The real issue in my mind is what happens if you change the motherboard and
have to reactivate an OEM version over the phone. If you talk to a Microsoft
representative and he defends the "motherboard defines the computer" point
of view and won't activate you, you're out of luck unless you want to take
Microsoft to court (which is probably highly unlikely).

My own view is that you might be able to successfully argue in court that,
silly as it may sound, the computer is defined by the case, since that's
where Microsoft requires that the product key sticker be affixed. You could
therefore change everything inside the case, and it would still be the same
computer.

However, don't rely on that last paragraph unless you're willing to go to
court over it. I wouldn't be.

--
Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
Please reply to the newsgroup



"Mike Brannigan" Mike.Brannigan@localhost wrote in message
...
D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message
...
Microsoft changed all that -- in the wake of the Anti-Trust
Decisions and Subsequent Court Cases that have cost Microsoft
billions. Blame the Pre-Bush Supreme Court for your dilemma.

DSH

"Paul Smith" wrote in message
...

"Andy Snook" wrote in message
...

I've transfered OEM licenses in the past, when an old PC dies,
say one that I own I'm not going to forget about the OS I forked
out money on and reuse it, ring up to activate explain my old PC
died and I am installing its copy of XP and they have given me
the code, no problem. So I dont know where you got this idea that they
wont let you
transfer from....

Read the EULA.

--
Paul Smith,
Yeovil, UK.
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User.
http://www.windowsresource.net/

*Remove nospam. to reply by e-mail*



No the changes were about the sale of generic OEM software to home
builders.
The EULA still clearly states the software is NOT transferable.

Lets look at the EULA from an OEM Windows Vista Home Premium
EULAID:VISTA_RM.0_CONSUMER_OEM_en-US

First and most important point, the one where your OEM software is
tied to the device.

2. INSTALLATION AND USE RIGHTS. The software license is permanently
assigned to the device with which you acquired the software. That
device is the "licensed device."
a. Licensed Device. You may install one copy of the software on the
licensed device. You may use the software on up to two processors
on that device at one time. You may not use the software on any
other device. So there you have it - ties to the licensed device.

Now let's look at the transfer rights.

15. TRANSFER TO A THIRD PARTY. You may transfer the software
directly to a third party only with the licensed device. You may
not keep any copies of the software or any earlier version. Before
any permitted transfer, the other party must agree that this
agreement applies to the transfer and use of the software. The
transfer must include the Certificate of Authenticity label.

So you cannot transfer the software to another device or resell it
in any way other then on the original "licensed device".

This is really very simple stuff that you agree to abide by during
install.
--
Mike Brannigan
"

Darn Good Points All....

There will be a Court Case, of some sort, over these EULA issues, some
day -- it's virtually inevitable.

And we shall all be watching closely. g

DSH

"Ken Blake, MVP" wrote in message
...

The issue of OEM licenses and what constitutes the same computer is a can
of worms. The EULA doesn't specify what constitutes the same computer, and
the EULA is what you agree to. If I had my druthers, all licenses would be
the same, with the retail rules, and there wouldn't be such a thing as an
OEM license.

There are people here (and elsewhere) who claim that if you change the
motherboard, it's a different computer. Although that certainly sounds
logical, the OEM EULA does *not* say that. Some of these people will point
to a Microsoft site for System Builders (one that can't even be accessed
by the general public) that states that changing the motherboard makes it
a different computer. Again, the EULA, which is what you agree to, does
*not*
state that, so as far as I'm concerned, what this site states is
irrelevant.

My guess is that if it ever came before a court (which is highly unlikely)
and Microsoft ever pointed to that web site, they'd be laughed out of
court.

The real issue in my mind is what happens if you change the motherboard
and have to reactivate an OEM version over the phone. If you talk to a
Microsoft representative and he defends the "motherboard defines the
computer" point of view and won't activate you, you're out of luck unless
you want to take Microsoft to court (which is probably highly unlikely).

My own view is that you might be able to successfully argue in court that,
silly as it may sound, the computer is defined by the case, since that's
where Microsoft requires that the product key sticker be affixed. You
could
therefore change everything inside the case, and it would still be the
same computer.

However, don't rely on that last paragraph unless you're willing to go to
court over it. I wouldn't be.

--
Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
Please reply to the newsgroup

"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message ...
There will be a Court Case, of some sort, over these EULA issues, some
day -- it's virtually inevitable.

Not if MS can help it. MS doesn't want to push the issue.
Their lawyers are mainly concerned with mass piracy.

From what I understand, European courts have forced MS
to soften the European version of the EULA to the point
where the consumer can resell/reuse the OEM license
indefinitely. Why should US consumers be second class
citizens?

Gary VanderMolen

Gary VanderMolen wrote:
"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message
...
There will be a Court Case, of some sort, over these EULA issues, some
day -- it's virtually inevitable.

Not if MS can help it. MS doesn't want to push the issue. Their lawyers
are mainly concerned with mass piracy.
From what I understand, European courts have forced MS to soften the
European version of the EULA to the point where the consumer can
resell/reuse the OEM license indefinitely.

About time.

Why should US consumers be
second class
citizens?

Gary VanderMolen

Because you have a president whose base/boss is Big Business?

Alias

In message "Gary
VanderMolen" wrote:

From what I understand, European courts have forced MS
to soften the European version of the EULA to the point
where the consumer can resell/reuse the OEM license
indefinitely. Why should US consumers be second class
citizens?

Because they choose to be -- As long as customers accept these
limitations, they'll never disappear.
--
Insert something clever here.

As I said, if you were paying attention, there will a Court Case.

Microsoft cannot prevent someone from bringing a suit against them, if the
plaintiff is committed to it.

DSH
----------------------------------

"Gary VanderMolen" wrote in message
...

"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message
...

There will be a Court Case, of some sort, over these EULA issues, some
day -- it's virtually inevitable.

Not if MS can help it. MS doesn't want to push the issue. Their lawyers
are mainly concerned with mass piracy.
From what I understand, European courts have forced MS to soften the
European version of the EULA to the point where the consumer can
resell/reuse the OEM license indefinitely. Why should US consumers be
second class
citizens?

Gary VanderMolen

In message "D. Spencer Hines"
wrote:

As I said, if you were paying attention, there will a Court Case.

Microsoft cannot prevent someone from bringing a suit against them, if the
plaintiff is committed to it.

It is *very* difficult for a consumer to show actual damages though, and
even if MSFT's lawyers managed to lose the case, they probably wouldn't
appeal, meaning that it wouldn't form a precedent.
--
Insert something clever here.

Coulda, Shoulda, Woulda.

DSH

"DevilsPGD" wrote in message
...

In message "D. Spencer Hines"
wrote:

As I said, if you were paying attention, there will a Court Case.

Microsoft cannot prevent someone from bringing a suit against them, if the
plaintiff is committed to it.

It is *very* difficult for a consumer to show actual damages though, and
even if MSFT's lawyers managed to lose the case, they probably wouldn't
appeal, meaning that it wouldn't form a precedent.
--
Insert something clever here.

"Ken Blake, MVP" wrote in message
...
*rain*drops* wrote:

Which begs the question -- what is the "licensed device?" The phrase
"... at one time..." indicates that a processor can be changed out
and replaced, as long as the software is used on only two maximum
processors within the "licensed device." So the processor is not the
"licensed device."
What does that leave? The CPU case? Just never change the CPU case.


The issue of OEM licenses and what constitutes the same computer is a can
of worms. The EULA doesn't specify what constitutes the same computer, and
the EULA is what you agree to. If I had my druthers, all licenses would be
the same, with the retail rules, and there wouldn't be such a thing as an
OEM license.

There are people here (and elsewhere) who claim that if you change the
motherboard, it's a different computer. Although that certainly sounds
logical, the OEM EULA does *not* say that. Some of these people will point
to a Microsoft site for System Builders (one that can't even be accessed
by the general public) that states that changing the motherboard makes it
a different computer. Again, the EULA, which is what you agree to, does
*not*
state that, so as far as I'm concerned, what this site states is
irrelevant.

My guess is that if it ever came before a court (which is highly unlikely)
and Microsoft ever pointed to that web site, they'd be laughed out of
court.

The real issue in my mind is what happens if you change the motherboard
and have to reactivate an OEM version over the phone. If you talk to a
Microsoft representative and he defends the "motherboard defines the
computer" point of view and won't activate you, you're out of luck unless
you want to take Microsoft to court (which is probably highly unlikely).

My own view is that you might be able to successfully argue in court that,
silly as it may sound, the computer is defined by the case, since that's
where Microsoft requires that the product key sticker be affixed. You
could
therefore change everything inside the case, and it would still be the
same computer.

However, don't rely on that last paragraph unless you're willing to go to
court over it. I wouldn't be.

--
Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
Please reply to the newsgroup



"Mike Brannigan" Mike.Brannigan@localhost wrote in message
...
D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message
...
Microsoft changed all that -- in the wake of the Anti-Trust
Decisions and Subsequent Court Cases that have cost Microsoft
billions. Blame the Pre-Bush Supreme Court for your dilemma.

DSH

"Paul Smith" wrote in message
...

"Andy Snook" wrote in message
...

I've transfered OEM licenses in the past, when an old PC dies,
say one that I own I'm not going to forget about the OS I forked
out money on and reuse it, ring up to activate explain my old PC
died and I am installing its copy of XP and they have given me
the code, no problem. So I dont know where you got this idea that
they wont let you
transfer from....

Read the EULA.

--
Paul Smith,
Yeovil, UK.
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User.
http://www.windowsresource.net/

*Remove nospam. to reply by e-mail*



No the changes were about the sale of generic OEM software to home
builders.
The EULA still clearly states the software is NOT transferable.

Lets look at the EULA from an OEM Windows Vista Home Premium
EULAID:VISTA_RM.0_CONSUMER_OEM_en-US

First and most important point, the one where your OEM software is
tied to the device.

2. INSTALLATION AND USE RIGHTS. The software license is permanently
assigned to the device with which you acquired the software. That
device is the "licensed device."
a. Licensed Device. You may install one copy of the software on the
licensed device. You may use the software on up to two processors
on that device at one time. You may not use the software on any
other device. So there you have it - ties to the licensed device.

Now let's look at the transfer rights.

15. TRANSFER TO A THIRD PARTY. You may transfer the software
directly to a third party only with the licensed device. You may
not keep any copies of the software or any earlier version. Before
any permitted transfer, the other party must agree that this
agreement applies to the transfer and use of the software. The
transfer must include the Certificate of Authenticity label.

So you cannot transfer the software to another device or resell it
in any way other then on the original "licensed device".

This is really very simple stuff that you agree to abide by during
install.
--
Mike Brannigan
"


Great post Ken.

I was reviewing the OEM license again and remembered that there is a
'PREINSTALLATION REQUIREMENT' clause, item six, that requires the 'system
builder' to use the OEM Preinstallation Kit ("OPK"). While this makes no
sense whatsoever that I can see for someone installing the OEM version on
their own 'device', it is required per the EULA.

Does this OPK software come with the OEM version or do you have to sign up
for the Microsoft Partner Program at
http://www.microsoft.com/oem/sblicense/OPK/default.mspx in order to download
it?

Have any retail OEM customers out there actually used this OPK? If so, how
does it work? Does it install a EULA on the device that you, the end user,
must accept that is any different from this one at
http://oem.microsoft.com/downloads/P...B_License.pdf?

Does anyone besides me really care? :-)

--
Alan Norton
Reviews Including ABIT AN8 SLI, ECS P965T-A & Foxconn 975X7AB-8EKRS2H
Motherboards
Guide to Choosing the Right Version Of Vista For You - Vista Confusion
Article
Arizona Pics & Cute Animal Pics
No Spam - Just a gratuitous plea for more hardware to test :-)
http://www.mindspring.com/~anorton1/