Can't copy file, or some such message

When I run XXCopy and other programs that copy files, I often can't copy
...log files.

..log files aren't very important to me, but what I don't understand is
why the program they are logging gloms on to them so hard they can't
even be copied. I understand why they can't be changed by anything
other than the program they are a part of, (but my compulive nature
makes me want to copy them even though they're boring.)

Also today I was using XXClone, which has some extra features, one of
which is to put a line in one's current boot.ini file that will start
windows from the (external, I think ) clone partition one has recently
made. But it too could not update my C: boot.ini, even though I could
do it manually with no trouble. (I have to assume his program works
some of the time, since it's been out there, free and paid versions, for
years. Okay, it just occurred to me that I'm not using the most recent
version but that doesn't really change the question..)


Has any of this been fixed in win7, 8, or 10. I'll bet it's gotten
worse!

micky wrote:
When I run XXCopy and other programs that copy files, I often can't copy
..log files.

.log files aren't very important to me, but what I don't understand is
why the program they are logging gloms on to them so hard they can't
even be copied. I understand why they can't be changed by anything
other than the program they are a part of, (but my compulive nature
makes me want to copy them even though they're boring.)

Also today I was using XXClone, which has some extra features, one of
which is to put a line in one's current boot.ini file that will start
windows from the (external, I think ) clone partition one has recently
made. But it too could not update my C: boot.ini, even though I could
do it manually with no trouble. (I have to assume his program works
some of the time, since it's been out there, free and paid versions, for
years. Okay, it just occurred to me that I'm not using the most recent
version but that doesn't really change the question..)


Has any of this been fixed in win7, 8, or 10. I'll bet it's gotten
worse!

Simple, this is what volume shadow service is for (VSS).
That's how you "fix it", use the subsystem intended
for solving the problem.

And you can see someone here, touting the benefits.
Many programs now use VSS as their base of operation.

http://www.vsscopy.com/

If a program is written to use VSS, and subsystems listen to
requests to "quiesce", then copying, cloning, or imaging
are a lot simpler. There is a ten second interval, where
other programs on the computer are given a chance to
"put-up or shut-up". After that, the copy/image/clone
operation begins.

Rather than XXCOPY, you should be using good file-by-file
backup software that uses VSS. (No, I will not be providing
a review of such - I don't use the file-by-file concept,
ever.)

While there are examples of free "imaging" software, when
it comes to file-by-file backup, the software community considers
that their "bread and butter" and charge for it.

I have arranged file-by-file backup before. I had Retrospect
fully automated, with 18 scripts on my Mac G4. I have also installed
Retrospect for Windows, for someone elses computer. Of the 18 scripts
running on the G4, 2 of them would fail sporadically. It took two days
of farting around, to get the 16 scripts working. And I couldn't
figure out exactly what was wrong with the other two scripts. This is
the kind of blow-back I expect from file-by-file software.
Imaging whole drives, seems to be less work.

The Ghost backup software acquired VSS capability, but it did that
because the actual Ghost software was replaced by software
from the PowerQuest purchase. After putting a lot of work into
the older software, some developers are resistant to redoing their
stuff to use VSS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symantec_Ghost

When a backup software stops asking you to "reboot the computer",
that's when you would suspect it is using VSS. If you shutdown
Windows, and copy files while using a Linux LiveCD, then none
of the Windows files are "busy" then either. And that's effectively
what a number of products did, before VSS came along.

Paul

micky wrote:

I often can't copy ..log files.

My guess is that you are running afoul of the folder navigation where .
means current folder and .. means parent folder. To use relative
pathing for a file in the current (working) folder, you can either
specify just the filename or use .\file. To use relative pathing for a
file in the parent folder from one of its child folders, you use
...\file.

If you are using a leading . or .. in the filename then you need to
identify that those are not special relative pathing prefixes. Enclose
the file with double quotes, like ".log" or "..log".

Whether you add the filespec to the command or use replaceable
parameters, you should be enclosing the filespec inside of double quotes
if there is a chance the path or filename contain space or other special
characters. In fact, in batch files, I always enclose the filespec
within double quotes because it is possible the replaceable variable
will point to a path or file that has a space in its name.

On Sat, 30 May 2015 15:15:30 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

micky wrote:

I often can't copy ..log files.

My guess is that you are running afoul of the folder navigation where .
means current folder and .. means parent folder. To use relative
pathing for a file in the current (working) folder, you can either
specify just the filename or use .\file. To use relative pathing for a
file in the parent folder from one of its child folders, you use
..\file.

If you are using a leading . or .. in the filename then you need to
identify that those are not special relative pathing prefixes. Enclose
the file with double quotes, like ".log" or "..log".

Vanguard you always give good answers, but this time I think I fouled
you up by putting two .. before log. Maybe it's parkinson's disease,
but I meant to say .log files.

I just copy C: to F: with a list of exclusion and the .log
files make themselves known when they say Copy Failed.

Whether you add the filespec to the command or use replaceable
parameters, you should be enclosing the filespec inside of double quotes
if there is a chance the path or filename contain space or other special
characters. In fact, in batch files, I always enclose the filespec
within double quotes because it is possible the replaceable variable
will point to a path or file that has a space in its name.

I havent' learned to use replaceable variables yet. I'm saving that for
my 75th birthday. (in 7 years) But I have finally learned the value
of double quotes. (This is why I never name anything with a space in
it, and never use Program Files, My Photos, or My Anything.)

On Sat, 30 May 2015 15:39:57 -0400, Paul wrote:

micky wrote:
When I run XXCopy and other programs that copy files, I often can't copy
..log files.

.log files aren't very important to me, but what I don't understand is
why the program they are logging gloms on to them so hard they can't
even be copied. I understand why they can't be changed by anything
other than the program they are a part of, (but my compulive nature
makes me want to copy them even though they're boring.)

Also today I was using XXClone, which has some extra features, one of
which is to put a line in one's current boot.ini file that will start
windows from the (external, I think ) clone partition one has recently
made. But it too could not update my C: boot.ini, even though I could
do it manually with no trouble. (I have to assume his program works
some of the time, since it's been out there, free and paid versions, for
years. Okay, it just occurred to me that I'm not using the most recent
version but that doesn't really change the question..)


Has any of this been fixed in win7, 8, or 10. I'll bet it's gotten
worse!

Simple, this is what volume shadow service is for (VSS).
That's how you "fix it", use the subsystem intended
for solving the problem.

And you can see someone here, touting the benefits.
Many programs now use VSS as their base of operation.

http://www.vsscopy.com/

If a program is written to use VSS, and subsystems listen to
requests to "quiesce", then copying, cloning, or imaging
are a lot simpler. There is a ten second interval, where
other programs on the computer are given a chance to
"put-up or shut-up". After that, the copy/image/clone
operation begins.

It looks nice and I downloaded it.

Rather than XXCOPY, you should be using good file-by-file
backup software that uses VSS. (No, I will not be providing
a review of such - I don't use the file-by-file concept,
ever.)

The big advantages of XXCopy are the extensive list of options, maybe 4
times as many as XCopy has, and the ability to have a list of excluded
files, that never get copied. So it's not just pagefile and
hiberfile that one can exclude, but just about anything one wants.

The method of denoting this is simple and I once knew a lot of it, but
I've forgotten it already.

There seems to be nothing it won't do if you know all the options, which
I don't.

While there are examples of free "imaging" software, when
it comes to file-by-file backup, the software community considers
that their "bread and butter" and charge for it.

XXCopy is free. It was good enough to clone '98 patitions, but not for
XP and up. XXClone was written for them and has free and two prices
of paid versions, but XXClone doesn't say what files don't get copied.
Some day I'll clone a Windows partition with the right log options and
get a list. It's certainly not everything I would omit.

I have arranged file-by-file backup before. I had Retrospect
fully automated, with 18 scripts on my Mac G4. I have also installed
Retrospect for Windows, for someone elses computer. Of the 18 scripts
running on the G4, 2 of them would fail sporadically. It took two days
of farting around, to get the 16 scripts working. And I couldn't
figure out exactly what was wrong with the other two scripts. This is
the kind of blow-back I expect from file-by-file software.
Imaging whole drives, seems to be less work.

The Ghost backup software acquired VSS capability, but it did that
because the actual Ghost software was replaced by software
from the PowerQuest purchase. After putting a lot of work into
the older software, some developers are resistant to redoing their
stuff to use VSS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symantec_Ghost

When a backup software stops asking you to "reboot the computer",
that's when you would suspect it is using VSS. If you shutdown

Uh huh.

Windows, and copy files while using a Linux LiveCD, then none
of the Windows files are "busy" then either. And that's effectively
what a number of products did, before VSS came along.

Paul

micky wrote:

On Sat, 30 May 2015 15:15:30 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

micky wrote:

I often can't copy ..log files.

My guess is that you are running afoul of the folder navigation where .
means current folder and .. means parent folder. To use relative
pathing for a file in the current (working) folder, you can either
specify just the filename or use .\file. To use relative pathing for a
file in the parent folder from one of its child folders, you use
..\file.

If you are using a leading . or .. in the filename then you need to
identify that those are not special relative pathing prefixes. Enclose
the file with double quotes, like ".log" or "..log".

Vanguard you always give good answers, but this time I think I fouled
you up by putting two .. before log. Maybe it's parkinson's disease,
but I meant to say .log files.

I just copy C: to F: with a list of exclusion and the .log
files make themselves known when they say Copy Failed.

Whether you add the filespec to the command or use replaceable
parameters, you should be enclosing the filespec inside of double quotes
if there is a chance the path or filename contain space or other special
characters. In fact, in batch files, I always enclose the filespec
within double quotes because it is possible the replaceable variable
will point to a path or file that has a space in its name.

I havent' learned to use replaceable variables yet. I'm saving that for
my 75th birthday. (in 7 years) But I have finally learned the value
of double quotes. (This is why I never name anything with a space in
it, and never use Program Files, My Photos, or My Anything.)

Did enclosing the filespec within double quotes catch the .log files for
the 'copy' command? Not sure from your reply if delineating the
filespec string worked for you or not.

On Wed, 3 Jun 2015 10:42:56 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

micky wrote:

On Sat, 30 May 2015 15:15:30 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

micky wrote:

I often can't copy ..log files.

My guess is that you are running afoul of the folder navigation where .
means current folder and .. means parent folder. To use relative
pathing for a file in the current (working) folder, you can either
specify just the filename or use .\file. To use relative pathing for a
file in the parent folder from one of its child folders, you use
..\file.

If you are using a leading . or .. in the filename then you need to
identify that those are not special relative pathing prefixes. Enclose
the file with double quotes, like ".log" or "..log".

Vanguard you always give good answers, but this time I think I fouled
you up by putting two .. before log. Maybe it's parkinson's disease,
but I meant to say .log files.

I just copy C: to F: with a list of exclusion and the .log
files make themselves known when they say Copy Failed.

Whether you add the filespec to the command or use replaceable
parameters, you should be enclosing the filespec inside of double quotes
if there is a chance the path or filename contain space or other special
characters. In fact, in batch files, I always enclose the filespec
within double quotes because it is possible the replaceable variable
will point to a path or file that has a space in its name.

I havent' learned to use replaceable variables yet. I'm saving that for
my 75th birthday. (in 7 years) But I have finally learned the value
of double quotes. (This is why I never name anything with a space in
it, and never use Program Files, My Photos, or My Anything.)

Did enclosing the filespec within double quotes catch the .log files for
the 'copy' command? Not sure from your reply if delineating the
filespec string worked for you or not.

I'm sorry. No relationship between the two. There were other filespecs
with spaces in them where DOS would have accepted two sets of double
quotes, one set around "documents and settings" and one set around
"application data", but XXCOPY standards woudl not permit it. (It
insists on one set of double quotes around the entire spec, when there
is a space inside.

Files like firewall.log get caught just like any other file, and then if
the log is in use, as many are, it says Copy Failed. Not only that,
but if Forte Agent is running, data files for several of the newsgroups
give the same result. So I have a separate backup bat file for Agent
that I run only when Agent isn't running.

But if I were to run XXClone, which is also a file-by-file copy program,
I'm sure it woudl copy all these files** And Paul says so would
vsscopy.

A) I'm surprised those who wrote Agent felt the need to so firmly
allocate data files to Agent that most copy programs woudln't copy them
(FTR I haven't tried Copy or XCopy yet. ) What harm could be caused by
permitting them to be copied? Wouldn't the OS make sure the file was
read when it wasn't being written to?

B) OTOH, despite all that, some programs do copy those files. What
feature of vsscopy or xxclone is there that does that, and is there some
way I could duplicate and take advantage of that while running other
programs like XXCopy and who knows what else?


**If XXClone didn't copy every file, it woudl be no good. But I don't
want to use it most of tthe time because it doesn't have a user-defined
exclusion file..

No copy tool will let you copy a file while it is inuse (write mode only
to the process that has the handle to the file). VSS works by making
static journals of the files which allows other processes to continue
using the files. That's why backup and clone programs that use VSS (or
their own locked file imaging) can copy an inuse file. The shadow copy
of the file is not inuse.

You never indicated the cause for failure was that you were copying
inuse files. From your original post, I thought the problem was in
copying files whose names began with dot characters. The actual problem
is trying to copy files while they are still inuse (locked). You will
find files for the local message store of your e-mail program cannot be
copied, too, but they can be backed up or cloned with a VSS program
(e.g., backup or cloning programs). Microsoft created the VSS service
to permit VSS-enabled backup programs to complete okay even while files
were inuse.