Would an SSD make for faster start-ups?

Win7 SP1 64bit

My 1TB HDD has so many programs on it that the
computer takes over 5 minutes to start up.

The used space on this drive is about 300GB and is
almost all programs and operating system. I store
data on other drives.

Would a SSD give significantly faster start-ups?

Peter

Depends on how many of those programs on the hard drive are being
started automatically when you boot the computer up. A SSD will
significantly reduce the operating system startup. But if you have a
bunch of other programs booting up and then something like Symantic
virus scanner scanning memory on bootup, then it's anyone's guess how
much faster it will start.

On 6/10/2014 5:58 PM, Peter Jason wrote:
Win7 SP1 64bit

My 1TB HDD has so many programs on it that the
computer takes over 5 minutes to start up.

The used space on this drive is about 300GB and is
almost all programs and operating system. I store
data on other drives.

Would a SSD give significantly faster start-ups?

Peter

Peter Jason wrote:
Win7 SP1 64bit

My 1TB HDD has so many programs on it that the
computer takes over 5 minutes to start up.

The used space on this drive is about 300GB and is
almost all programs and operating system. I store
data on other drives.

Would a SSD give significantly faster start-ups?

Peter

I would want to understand why it was slow first.

WinXP had "BootVis", as a utility for displaying
the timing of the boot sequence. It made charts
and graphs for you. Microsoft discontinued support
for it, so it is no longer distributed.

This is the closest thing I can find to that.

"Windows Performance Tools"

https://web.archive.org/web/20080212...perftools.mspx

"xbootmgr boot trace capture tool"

The hardest part of using that, is going to be finding
a good version to download. The one for Windows 8
is screwed up by apparently being part of Win8 SDK.
So it'll be the usual raw deal, of dealing with the
crappy Microsoft delivery mechanisms for downloads.
We can't put them all in one place, on one web page,
like this.

Vista (Windows Performance Tools) Download_here
Win7 (Windows Performance Tools) Download_here
Win8 (Windows Performance Tools) Download_here

But I suppose that is too much to last. Much easier
to just delete all references to the older versions,
then make half-assed references to having put the
Tools into some SDK, then lie about which SDK they're
inside, and so on... The "Microsoft Way".

Paul

On 6/11/2014 8:17 AM, Bob I wrote:
Depends on how many of those programs on the hard drive are being
started automatically when you boot the computer up. A SSD will
significantly reduce the operating system startup. But if you have a
bunch of other programs booting up and then something like Symantic
virus scanner scanning memory on bootup, then it's anyone's guess how
much faster it will start.

On 6/10/2014 5:58 PM, Peter Jason wrote:
Win7 SP1 64bit

My 1TB HDD has so many programs on it that the
computer takes over 5 minutes to start up.

The used space on this drive is about 300GB and is
almost all programs and operating system. I store
data on other drives.

Would a SSD give significantly faster start-ups?

Peter

There are a lot of factors that go into the length of time between the
time you hit the power button & when the computer is ready for use. As
mentioned, the number of start-up programs is one of those factors & can
be a major factor (especially if you installed 300 programs & let all of
them automatically decide if they want to start up when Windows does).
And then there's hardware such as CPU, memory & type of drive.
Installing an SSD should reduce some of that time, but I doubt that it
will put a major dent in that 5 minute start-up time with your
computer's current configuration.

On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 20:00:42 -0400, Paul
wrote:

Peter Jason wrote:
Win7 SP1 64bit

My 1TB HDD has so many programs on it that the
computer takes over 5 minutes to start up.

The used space on this drive is about 300GB and is
almost all programs and operating system. I store
data on other drives.

Would a SSD give significantly faster start-ups?

Peter

I would want to understand why it was slow first.

WinXP had "BootVis", as a utility for displaying
the timing of the boot sequence. It made charts
and graphs for you. Microsoft discontinued support
for it, so it is no longer distributed.

This is the closest thing I can find to that.

"Windows Performance Tools"

https://web.archive.org/web/20080212...perftools.mspx

"xbootmgr boot trace capture tool"

The hardest part of using that, is going to be finding
a good version to download. The one for Windows 8
is screwed up by apparently being part of Win8 SDK.
So it'll be the usual raw deal, of dealing with the
crappy Microsoft delivery mechanisms for downloads.
We can't put them all in one place, on one web page,
like this.

Vista (Windows Performance Tools) Download_here
Win7 (Windows Performance Tools) Download_here
Win8 (Windows Performance Tools) Download_here

But I suppose that is too much to last. Much easier
to just delete all references to the older versions,
then make half-assed references to having put the
Tools into some SDK, then lie about which SDK they're
inside, and so on... The "Microsoft Way".

Paul

I dowloaded this and it presents in the Program
Folder as:
"C:\Program Files\Microsoft Windows Performance
Toolkit\xperfview.exe"

But nothing happens; the window wants a file
loaded.
There's a ReadMe file thus:
***

1.b. I cannot decode symbols. Why is that and
how can I fix it?

The xperf/xperfview trace symbol decoding support
is quite complex.
Please ensure the following requirements are met:

i. You have specified -symbols on the xperf
command line, or
selected "Load Symbols" in xperfview *before*
you opened a summary
table.

ii. You configured the environment variables as
described in the online
help (xperf -help symbols)

iii. The ETW kernel trace file has been stopped
and merged with xperf's
option -d or merged on the same machine it
was taken with xperf's
option -merge. (xperf performs a special
image identification
process during its custom trace merge.)

iv. The ETW user trace file is processed by xperf
in conjunction
with a kernel trace file taken in the same
time on the same machine
and merged as explained at point iv. above.

v. You have access to the binary and symbol
sources specified on
_NT_SYMBOL_PATH. If you use symbol server,
please note that many
times the symbol server is just a redirector,
and you need to have
access to both the symbol server itself and
the site actually hosting
the binaries and/or symbols.

vi. _NT_SYMBOL_PATH points to the right files. If
the files are from a
different build or architecture they will not
work. If you replace
the binary or symbols you will not be able to
decode anymore symbols
for traces recording activity of the old
binaries.

To rule out a symbol mismatch, use symchk
from the Windows Debugging
Tools distribution to ensure the symbols
match the binaries on the
machine on which the trace was taken:

symchk /v local_file /s
sympath_to_name.pdb

To rule out a binary mismatch, use fc /b to
ensure the binaries on
the machine on which the trace was taken
match the ones on the drop
sha

fc /b local_file drop_share_file

vii. The ETW kernel trace was captured with at
least PROC_THREAD+LOADER.
These flags provide basic information about
process lifetime and
image ranges in process memory, which are
instrumental in decoding
virtual addresses to images and symbols.

To verify that these flags have been enabled
in the ETW kernel trace,
check that Process events (Create, Delete,
Start Rundown, End Rundown)
and Image events (Load, Unload, Start
Rundown, End Rundown) are present
in the table generated by "xperf -i
kernel.etl -a tracestats -detail".


1.c. I'd like to have ETW log the context stacks
for certain events. How
can I do that?

Please refer to "xperf -help stackwalk".
***

Confused.

On Wed, 11 Jun 2014 09:12:37 +0900, BobbyM
wrote:

On 6/11/2014 8:17 AM, Bob I wrote:
Depends on how many of those programs on the hard drive are being
started automatically when you boot the computer up. A SSD will
significantly reduce the operating system startup. But if you have a
bunch of other programs booting up and then something like Symantic
virus scanner scanning memory on bootup, then it's anyone's guess how
much faster it will start.

On 6/10/2014 5:58 PM, Peter Jason wrote:
Win7 SP1 64bit

My 1TB HDD has so many programs on it that the
computer takes over 5 minutes to start up.

The used space on this drive is about 300GB and is
almost all programs and operating system. I store
data on other drives.

Would a SSD give significantly faster start-ups?

Peter

There are a lot of factors that go into the length of time between the
time you hit the power button & when the computer is ready for use. As
mentioned, the number of start-up programs is one of those factors & can
be a major factor (especially if you installed 300 programs & let all of
them automatically decide if they want to start up when Windows does).
And then there's hardware such as CPU, memory & type of drive.
Installing an SSD should reduce some of that time, but I doubt that it
will put a major dent in that 5 minute start-up time with your
computer's current configuration.

In Windows Task Manager, which list shows the
startup programs: the "Services" or the
"Processes" (or both)?

On 6/10/2014 6:58 PM, Peter Jason wrote:
Win7 SP1 64bit

My 1TB HDD has so many programs on it that the
computer takes over 5 minutes to start up.

The used space on this drive is about 300GB and is
almost all programs and operating system. I store
data on other drives.

Would a SSD give significantly faster start-ups?

Peter



Yes, an SSD would speed things up, but, first:
1. Reduce the number of Icons on your Desktop by placing them in folders.
2. Reduce or delay the number of start up programs
- Soluto (free) would help decide which for above this step.
http://www.soluto.com/boot-time

On 6/11/2014 10:41 AM, Peter Jason wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jun 2014 09:12:37 +0900, BobbyM
wrote:

On 6/11/2014 8:17 AM, Bob I wrote:
Depends on how many of those programs on the hard drive are being
started automatically when you boot the computer up. A SSD will
significantly reduce the operating system startup. But if you have a
bunch of other programs booting up and then something like Symantic
virus scanner scanning memory on bootup, then it's anyone's guess how
much faster it will start.

On 6/10/2014 5:58 PM, Peter Jason wrote:
Win7 SP1 64bit

My 1TB HDD has so many programs on it that the
computer takes over 5 minutes to start up.

The used space on this drive is about 300GB and is
almost all programs and operating system. I store
data on other drives.

Would a SSD give significantly faster start-ups?

Peter

There are a lot of factors that go into the length of time between the
time you hit the power button & when the computer is ready for use. As
mentioned, the number of start-up programs is one of those factors & can
be a major factor (especially if you installed 300 programs & let all of
them automatically decide if they want to start up when Windows does).
And then there's hardware such as CPU, memory & type of drive.
Installing an SSD should reduce some of that time, but I doubt that it
will put a major dent in that 5 minute start-up time with your
computer's current configuration.

In Windows Task Manager, which list shows the
startup programs: the "Services" or the
"Processes" (or both)?

Startups are not shown in Task Manager in Win7 & earlier. A startup tab
is located at msconfig. You can find it by typing msconfig in the
search window in the start button.

On 10 Jun 2014, Peter Jason wrote in
alt.windows7.general:

Win7 SP1 64bit

My 1TB HDD has so many programs on it that the
computer takes over 5 minutes to start up.

The number of programs on your computer has nothing at all to do with
how long the computer takes to start up. You should find out the real
reason for the slowness before you start throwing money at it.

On 6/11/2014 11:59 AM, Nil wrote:
On 10 Jun 2014, Peter Jason wrote in
alt.windows7.general:

Win7 SP1 64bit

My 1TB HDD has so many programs on it that the
computer takes over 5 minutes to start up.

The number of programs on your computer has nothing at all to do with
how long the computer takes to start up. You should find out the real
reason for the slowness before you start throwing money at it.

It does if many of them are starting up when Windows does. If only 10%
of them are starting, that's 30 programs that have to load before
startup is complete.

On 10 Jun 2014, BobbyM wrote in
alt.windows7.general:

It does if many of them are starting up when Windows does. If
only 10% of them are starting, that's 30 programs that have to
load before startup is complete.

Well yes, of course. But the issue is having too many of them start
automatically with the system, not their mere presence on the computer,
which is what the OP seems to believe. I often run across this
misconception.

On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 23:52:16 -0400, Nil
wrote:

On 10 Jun 2014, BobbyM wrote in
alt.windows7.general:

It does if many of them are starting up when Windows does. If
only 10% of them are starting, that's 30 programs that have to
load before startup is complete.

Well yes, of course. But the issue is having too many of them start
automatically with the system, not their mere presence on the computer,
which is what the OP seems to believe. I often run across this
misconception.

I have disabled most startup programs, leaving the
Microsoft ones, and I will monitor all this over
the next few days.

Peter Jason wrote:
On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 20:00:42 -0400, Paul
wrote:

Peter Jason wrote:
Win7 SP1 64bit

My 1TB HDD has so many programs on it that the
computer takes over 5 minutes to start up.

The used space on this drive is about 300GB and is
almost all programs and operating system. I store
data on other drives.

Would a SSD give significantly faster start-ups?

Peter
I would want to understand why it was slow first.

WinXP had "BootVis", as a utility for displaying
the timing of the boot sequence. It made charts
and graphs for you. Microsoft discontinued support
for it, so it is no longer distributed.

This is the closest thing I can find to that.

"Windows Performance Tools"

https://web.archive.org/web/20080212...perftools.mspx

"xbootmgr boot trace capture tool"

The hardest part of using that, is going to be finding
a good version to download. The one for Windows 8
is screwed up by apparently being part of Win8 SDK.
So it'll be the usual raw deal, of dealing with the
crappy Microsoft delivery mechanisms for downloads.
We can't put them all in one place, on one web page,
like this.

Vista (Windows Performance Tools) Download_here
Win7 (Windows Performance Tools) Download_here
Win8 (Windows Performance Tools) Download_here

But I suppose that is too much to last. Much easier
to just delete all references to the older versions,
then make half-assed references to having put the
Tools into some SDK, then lie about which SDK they're
inside, and so on... The "Microsoft Way".

Paul

I dowloaded this and it presents in the Program
Folder as:
"C:\Program Files\Microsoft Windows Performance
Toolkit\xperfview.exe"

But nothing happens; the window wants a file
loaded.
There's a ReadMe file thus:
***

1.b. I cannot decode symbols. Why is that and
how can I fix it?

The xperf/xperfview trace symbol decoding support
is quite complex.
Please ensure the following requirements are met:

i. You have specified -symbols on the xperf
command line, or
selected "Load Symbols" in xperfview *before*
you opened a summary
table.

ii. You configured the environment variables as
described in the online
help (xperf -help symbols)

iii. The ETW kernel trace file has been stopped
and merged with xperf's
option -d or merged on the same machine it
was taken with xperf's
option -merge. (xperf performs a special
image identification
process during its custom trace merge.)

iv. The ETW user trace file is processed by xperf
in conjunction
with a kernel trace file taken in the same
time on the same machine
and merged as explained at point iv. above.

v. You have access to the binary and symbol
sources specified on
_NT_SYMBOL_PATH. If you use symbol server,
please note that many
times the symbol server is just a redirector,
and you need to have
access to both the symbol server itself and
the site actually hosting
the binaries and/or symbols.

vi. _NT_SYMBOL_PATH points to the right files. If
the files are from a
different build or architecture they will not
work. If you replace
the binary or symbols you will not be able to
decode anymore symbols
for traces recording activity of the old
binaries.

To rule out a symbol mismatch, use symchk
from the Windows Debugging
Tools distribution to ensure the symbols
match the binaries on the
machine on which the trace was taken:

symchk /v local_file /s
sympath_to_name.pdb

To rule out a binary mismatch, use fc /b to
ensure the binaries on
the machine on which the trace was taken
match the ones on the drop
sha

fc /b local_file drop_share_file

vii. The ETW kernel trace was captured with at
least PROC_THREAD+LOADER.
These flags provide basic information about
process lifetime and
image ranges in process memory, which are
instrumental in decoding
virtual addresses to images and symbols.

To verify that these flags have been enabled
in the ETW kernel trace,
check that Process events (Create, Delete,
Start Rundown, End Rundown)
and Image events (Load, Unload, Start
Rundown, End Rundown) are present
in the table generated by "xperf -i
kernel.etl -a tracestats -detail".


1.c. I'd like to have ETW log the context stacks
for certain events. How
can I do that?

Please refer to "xperf -help stackwalk".
***

Confused.

There's a tutorial of sorts here.

https://social.technet.microsoft.com...cess-sbsl.aspx

This was supposed to be their boottrace.etl article, but I'm lost.

http://social.technet.microsoft.com/...SDP_m anifest

At least when you get to the "graphical part", the results look
pretty. Not as pretty as BootVis, but this is a start.

http://social.technet.microsoft.com/...2D00_550x0.png

Some of these tools are pretty close to being Windows
debuggers, and they use symbol tables to track
individual routines.

You can get the symbol files from Microsoft. The last time
I did this, it was about 1.5GB of downloads. This video
will probably have the command line stuff for it.

http://wm.microsoft.com/ms/mcsp/serv...checkFinal.wmv

After viewing a bit of that video, I can see this project
is way... way... over the top :-( You will need a rocket
scientist for this!

Paul

On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 21:43:19 -0400, Zaidy036 wrote:

Yes, an SSD would speed things up, but, first:
1. Reduce the number of Icons on your Desktop by placing them in folders.

Shortcuts on the Desktop reduce the startup speed? First time I'm
reading this... :-?

--
s|b

On 11 Jun 2014, "s|b" wrote in
alt.windows7.general:

On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 21:43:19 -0400, Zaidy036 wrote:

Yes, an SSD would speed things up, but, first:
1. Reduce the number of Icons on your Desktop by placing them in
folders.

Shortcuts on the Desktop reduce the startup speed? First time I'm
reading this... :-?

No, he's wrong about that. Any impact that might possibly have would be
so slight as to be undetectable.