Hard Disk Space

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message
...
In message , glee
writes:
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message
...
In message , Ken Blake
writes:
[]
Hand me down? Did they reinstall Windows when they got it? If I
acquired a used computer, no matter who previously owned it, the
first
thing I would do with it would be to reinstall the operating system
[]
Please try to hold back your reflex (AKA knee-jerk) reaction. Though
good advice, it's almost certainly not relevant to the issue at hand
[]
I would like to know how to determine which files I can safely
remove?
[]
Well, it depends what was causing it, but on the whole, you are
correct.

This appeared in the xp.general newsgroup without benefit of the
original post and possibly other posts with info. So far, I see

Sorry; the gist (originally posted in the 7 'group, but specified as
XP) was that the OP's parents had a hand-down laptop which had
recently slowed down, and he assumed it was disc filling up, and asked
for advice on what to remove. Several of us have advised that it's not
necessarily a fullish HD that's the problem (including me who strongly
suspects it's now-insufficient RAM).
[]
Additionally, on ANY older computer with a speed complaint, the FIRST
course of action should always be to back up all data and run a hard
drive diagnostic from bootable media (like Hitachi DFT or Seagate

Good advice, but rather prescriptive! Kblake said first thing to do
with a s/h laptop is reformat and reinstall the OS; you say first
thing to do with a slow computer is (back up and) suspect the HD. I
would say - though not as forcefully (-:! - check PF usage against
real RAM: if it's greater, then that's why things are slow. But
certainly getting and running the HD manufacturer's disc diagnostic is
a good idea too. (I'm not so sure about reinstalling the OS, unless
you have a fairly good idea that something is wrong, or that the
previous owner was criminal.) But I'd say check the RAM usage first,
simply because it's so easy to do.

SeaTools). Then the specs should be obtained, and if feasible, a
malware check should be run, again using bootable media such as
Kaspersky's Rescue CD. Once those checks have been passed, these
other suggestions are good... but not before. So far, all I am seeing
is conjecture based on no backing information.

Again, I'd say checking RAM usage since it's about the simplest. Of
course, if it does show you're using more RAM than you actually have,
then you can wonder _why_, and do all the above things. (Though if
usage has only recently gone over the threshold, it can make for a
sudden drop in performance.)

It's not prescriptive, it's standard operating procedure. Any computer
more than 3 to 5 years old or older should get a hard drive diagnostic,
with those symptoms. It's standard for any computer before it leaves my
shop, and on an older computer that may have the original hard drive,
drive integrity must be checked first. Your other suggestions are fine,
but not before the drive integrity is checked. The client's data is
always the number one priority.
--
Glen Ventura
MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009
CompTIA A+

On 29/05/2012 4:32 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Wolf K
writes:
Part of original post:

My parents have a Hand Me Down lap top, that they only use for email
and simple Excel Spreadsheets. It has noticeably slowed downed; I am
guessing due to the now limited amount of free HD space.

The following advice is based on actual experience with an aging
laptop on XP Home/SP4. No speculation, no guessing. It works.

SP4?

Brain-fart. Sorry.
[...]
But if the machine is much older than 5-7 years, or supports 1GB RAM
max, it's time to retire it, or investigate Linux, I think. The old

Steady on. 1G made brother's machine pretty fast, to the extent that he
decided to stay with it (I'd have gone for the 2G as it wasn't that much
more, but he said by the time it got that slow again it _would_ be time
to buy a new PC).

If the PC slows down that much, main reason is registry and other junk.
Another factor is start-up demons, you'd be surprised how many programs
install one. Also, some machines have integrated video which
appropriates part of RAM. Can't say for sure, but I think that's more
likely with older motherboards.

Also: this netbook I'm typing on came with 1G, which
seemed fine for most things: Skype has problems, so I tried upping it to
2G - which didn't help Skype, and didn't make any noticeable difference
to anything else.

Skype needs a fast processor a separate video system to run well. I
suspect your netbook shares memory between CPU and video.

(My PF usage usually sits around 700, so I wasn't
surprised.) I'd certainly agree fit as much RAM as the machine will take
(2G here), but if that's only 1G, that's definitely not a reason to
discard it or turn it into a penguin - it can be perfectly usable (on XP
SP3 - I suspect it'd struggle on 7, but I assume it's far from a 7
machine).

I'm utterly confused about how resource-hungry W7 actually is. On this
box with 4GB and 500MB video memory, 2.4GHz 32-bit CPU emulating 64 bit,
W7 Pro-64 runs fast. On my wife's laptop, W7 Home Premium-64, 2.1GHz
CPU with 2GB RAM and integrated video, runs just as fast.

Bottom line: if what you've done to the old machine(s) has made them
function as you wish, who am I to complain?

;-)

Wolf K.

On Mon, 28 May 2012 15:46:21 -0400 "dave" wrote in
article

I regularly find useful Win 7 info here (for my PC). I want to
apologize, please no fkaming, for asking a Win XP question (albeit the
answer may apply to Win 7?

My parents have a Hand Me Down lap top, that they only use for email
and simple Excel Spreadsheets. It has ntoceably slowed downed; I am
guessing due to the now limited amount of free HD space.

I would like to know how to determine which files I can safely remove?
For example, given the many installed MSFT updates, all with the
capablity of Un-install, I assume that they now have a lot of
un-needed files. I am not technical enough to know how to selectively
recognize/ remove those and other un-needed files. Are there other
files, or settings that would increase the available HD space?

Any suggestions, to recover HD space, would be MOST appreciated..

Empty the Recycle Bin. I have helped folks with slow pc's and,
surprisingly, that can make a significant difference. Of course, the
other typical remedies, defragmentation, file cleanup, etc are all things
to try too.

On Wed, 30 May 2012 15:38:15 -0400, Jason
wrote:

On Mon, 28 May 2012 15:46:21 -0400 "dave" wrote in
article


Any suggestions, to recover HD space, would be MOST appreciated..

Empty the Recycle Bin.


Yes, that will save some space, but it's typically a small amount. And
it's a good example of what I mean when I say that most things you can
do are temporary. In a short while, as more files are deleted, that
savings will be gone.


I have helped folks with slow pc's and,
surprisingly, that can make a significant difference. Of course, the
other typical remedies, defragmentation,


Defragmentation saves *no* space at all.


file cleanup, etc are all things
to try too.

On Wed, 30 May 2012 13:29:33 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On Wed, 30 May 2012 15:38:15 -0400, Jason
wrote:

On Mon, 28 May 2012 15:46:21 -0400 "dave" wrote in
article

Any suggestions, to recover HD space, would be MOST appreciated..

Empty the Recycle Bin.

Yes, that will save some space, but it's typically a small amount. And
it's a good example of what I mean when I say that most things you can
do are temporary. In a short while, as more files are deleted, that
savings will be gone.

1) Be careful. Some people have been known to use it as an archive.

2) It could be a lot. Some people do not empty their Recycle Bin,
just as some do not delete old E-mails (or Outlook users keep the
E-mails in Deleted as an archive).

I have helped folks with slow pc's and,
surprisingly, that can make a significant difference. Of course, the
other typical remedies, defragmentation,

Defragmentation saves *no* space at all.

It might if the defragmenter compresses directories with empty
slots. It would not be very much space in most cases though.

file cleanup, etc are all things
to try too.

chkdsk might help. Years ago, I ran chkdsk on an MS-DOS system
that had a 30 MB hard drive. chkdsk recovered 20 MB! It turned out
that they had been in the habit of shutting off the computer with
files open.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

After the basic checks for defragmention, free disk space, and RAM, something
I've found is to get rid of the latest versions of always running software. I've
seen computers significantly slowed down when they get updated for the latest
version of firewall, antivirus, or spyware programs. I run, for instance AVG
8.5, and zonealarm 8, rather than the latest versions. My father's computer was
way slow when I visited once, and I found that Zonealarm had been updated to
version 10 or something. I uninstalled that, and installed 8.0, and it was back
to where it was before. I keep the virus definitions, etc up to date, and so far
have had no problem this way.

On Wed, 30 May 2012 13:29:33 -0700 "Ken Blake" wrote
in article

On Wed, 30 May 2012 15:38:15 -0400, Jason
wrote:

On Mon, 28 May 2012 15:46:21 -0400 "dave" wrote in
article


Any suggestions, to recover HD space, would be MOST appreciated..

Empty the Recycle Bin.



Yes, that will save some space, but it's typically a small amount.

It's not a matter of saving space. Apparently the presence of a large
number of files in Recycle affects filesystem performance adversely. I
don't know why. I do know I've seen the effects.

On Wed, 30 May 2012 13:29:33 -0700 "Ken Blake" wrote
in article

On Wed, 30 May 2012 15:38:15 -0400, Jason
wrote:

On Mon, 28 May 2012 15:46:21 -0400 "dave" wrote in
article





Defragmentation saves *no* space at all.

That's not the point. A highly fragmented filesystem means way more head
motion. Disk seeks are on a glacial timescale compared to most of what
happens in a PC. I thought the issue was speeding up the OP's parents'
PC.

On Wed, 30 May 2012 22:59:16 -0400, Jason
wrote:

On Wed, 30 May 2012 13:29:33 -0700 "Ken Blake" wrote
in article

On Wed, 30 May 2012 15:38:15 -0400, Jason
wrote:

On Mon, 28 May 2012 15:46:21 -0400 "dave" wrote in
article


Any suggestions, to recover HD space, would be MOST appreciated..

Empty the Recycle Bin.



Yes, that will save some space, but it's typically a small amount.

It's not a matter of saving space.


Your reply was to "Any suggestions, to recover HD space, would be
MOST appreciated" (see above). If you meant something other than that,
you should have said so.



Apparently the presence of a large
number of files in Recycle affects filesystem performance adversely. I
don't know why. I do know I've seen the effects.


I've never seen it. If you have a citation on the web that claims it's
true, please post it.

On Wed, 30 May 2012 23:03:07 -0400, Jason
wrote:

On Wed, 30 May 2012 13:29:33 -0700 "Ken Blake" wrote
in article

On Wed, 30 May 2012 15:38:15 -0400, Jason
wrote:

On Mon, 28 May 2012 15:46:21 -0400 "dave" wrote in
article





Defragmentation saves *no* space at all.

That's not the point. A highly fragmented filesystem means way more head
motion. Disk seeks are on a glacial timescale compared to most of what
happens in a PC. I thought the issue was speeding up the OP's parents'
PC.


Once again, his question was "Any suggestions, to recover HD space,
would be MOST appreciated."

In message , Wolf K
writes:
[]
If the PC slows down that much, main reason is registry and other junk.

(Not always - though maybe usually; In my limited experience,
now-inadequate RAM is often significant.)

Another factor is start-up demons, you'd be surprised how many programs
install one. Also, some machines have integrated video which
appropriates part of RAM. Can't say for sure, but I think that's more
likely with older motherboards.

Though that of course wouldn't cause a slowdown, it would be there from
the start.
[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Old soldiers never die - only young ones

In message , glee
writes:
[]
It's not prescriptive, it's standard operating procedure. Any computer
more than 3 to 5 years old or older should get a hard drive diagnostic,
with those symptoms. It's standard for any computer before it leaves
my shop, and on an older computer that may have the original hard
drive, drive integrity must be checked first. Your other suggestions
are fine, but not before the drive integrity is checked. The client's
data is always the number one priority.

Not a bad idea, but since it takes so little time to do, I'd always
check the PF usage level against the actual RAM, in Task Manager, if the
complaint was a sudden slowdown. If I found it wasn't the RAM being
overfilled, I'd certainly check the HD; if I found it was the RAM being
overfilled, I'd probably still check the HD, but in the knowledge that
replacing it wouldn't solve the slowdown problem.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Old soldiers never die - only young ones

In message , Ken Blake
writes:
[]
Once again, his question was "Any suggestions, to recover HD space,
would be MOST appreciated."

His fuller question was (paraphrasing): "the PC has slowed down, and I
think it's the hard disc being full. Any suggestions ..."

Replies that suggest other reasons why it might have slowed down,
especially if they are from people who think trying to lighten the HD
would be a waste of the OP's time, are IMO not inappropriate.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Old soldiers never die - only young ones