Anyone have a good PCIe USB 3.1 card they like?

On 06/02/2018 05:44 PM, Paul wrote:
Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 02:49:39 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

USB2 is [theoretically] 480 Mbps.Â* Does the customer's computer have a
NIC that can support 1 Gbps?Â* If so, how about a NAS drive?Â* Obviously
the customer cannot swamp their network with traffic due to the
collision detection and conflict handling of the Ethernet protocol.Â* If
he downloads huge files from the Internet or passed them between his
intranet hosts, issues huge print jobs, or otherwises dumps on his
network then the NAS drive will get slower because its portion of the
remaining bandwidth gets smaller.

If there's a concern about bandwidth exhaustion, as described above, I'd
just install a second 1gig NIC. Even good ones are cheap these days.
Connect the new NIC directly to the NAS, effectively removing backup
traffic from the primary LAN. Any Ethernet cable is fine, no crossover
needed. If multiple computers need to be backed up using the 'backup
LAN', add a 2nd NIC to each of them and stick a Gig switch in the middle
to make the physical connections. Problem solved. Not explicitly stated,
but hopefully obvious, configure the 2nd NICs and the NAS to use a
subnet different from the primary LAN. No default gateway needed.

USB2 is 0.48 Gbps.Â* NAS would be 1 Gbps.Â* USB3 would be 5 Gbps.Â* eSATA
would be 6 Gbps.

USB3.1 Type C has 10gig versions. I haven't seen a NAS that supports
that yet, but I haven't checked. They could be out there, at a price.

There's Thunderbolt II at 20Gbit/sec. (Usual nonsense at the bottom
of the page, about some motherboard dependency. Intel is the
king of bundleware.)

https://www.asus.com/ca-en/Motherboa...nderboltEX_II/

There's also Thunderbolt III at 40gbit/sec. (This one uses a special
cable that looks like a USB2 or something. The cable doesn't look
especially high tech.) The I/O cable from one of these, can only
be a yard long or so. The previous one supports a longer cable.

https://www.asus.com/ca-en/Motherboa...underboltEX-3/

Apparently, the higher the datarate, the more a "sacrifice of your
first born" is required to get it to work. And a comment I could
find from a mere user who tested both, is the EX_II one "works",
while the EX-3 one can "get into boot loops". There's a very specific
order for driver installation (driver is installed before you
fit the card). You can smell the "fresh baked tech from the lab"
on these things. Or is that "half-baked".

The Apple ecosystem should have some NAS entries with that
connector on it.

At this point, bog-standard USB3.0 at ~400MB/sec is looking
pretty good.

I checked my local computer store online, and their stock of
USB3.1 cards is zero. Must be a very popular seller. Or,
my last computer store is about to go out of business or
something. I don't understand how you can pretend to be
a "bricks and mortar", without any mortar. Won't the bricks
fall over if nothing holds them up ?

If they go under, I'll be left with "Best Buy" :-\ Yikes.

Â*Â* Paul


He will be pulling data off a SATA II drive, so ...

On 06/02/2018 01:07 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote:

If I move down to 3.0, I get

http://www.siig.com/it-products/usb/...-3-0-pcie.html

with w7 support and a sata power connector

You would only be moving down from USB 3.1 (10 Gbps) *if* the external
USB-attached drive also supports USB 3.1. Does it?

Not spec'ed out yet.

Also, while it mentions a PCI-e slot as a requirement,

I find USB 3 on a one lane to be slow. So I prefer cards that
use four lanes.

Know what mobo is in the computer?

Dell OptiPlex 960

It is old, but it is sweet running Windows 7 and
he loves the computer.

He has other computers running Where's Waldo (W10)
and he hates them, which is something I find a lot.
(Classic Shell and Shut Up 10 help a lot in
that respect.)

On 06/02/2018 02:13 AM, Patrick wrote:
On 01/06/2018 18:39, T wrote:
Hi All,

Stay away from the Star Tech PEXUSB311AC2

Â*Â*Â*Â* StarTech.com Dual Port USB 3.1 Card – 1x USB-C – 1x
Â*Â*Â*Â* USB-A – 10Gbps per port – Expansion Card – USB 3.1 PCI-E
Â*Â*Â*Â* Card – USB 3 PCI

It crashes your file system on large file transfers and crashes your
boot if anything is plugged into it when you boot.

Anyone have a favorite PCIe USB 3.1 card that actually
works right?Â* Siig?


Many thanks,
-T


On W7, I have the likes of this;
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB3-0-2-...EAAOSwo4pYfykP


It came with a min-disk that had several drivers (Setup.exe type) on,
(turns out to have a VIA chip).
The blue socket is for a twin front panel USB3 socket.
I had a little difficulty with the bracket that didn't quite stretch to
the case (had to bend it a little).

There is also a similar version of the same with all 4 USB3 sockets at
the back;
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PCI-E-USB...AOSwBSxbDCn j




I try to avoid Fleabay. Who makes these cards?

T wrote:

On 06/02/2018 02:13 AM, Patrick wrote:
On 01/06/2018 18:39, T wrote:
Hi All,

Stay away from the Star Tech PEXUSB311AC2

Â*Â*Â*Â* StarTech.com Dual Port USB 3.1 Card – 1x USB-C – 1x
Â*Â*Â*Â* USB-A – 10Gbps per port – Expansion Card – USB 3.1 PCI-E
Â*Â*Â*Â* Card – USB 3 PCI

It crashes your file system on large file transfers and crashes your
boot if anything is plugged into it when you boot.

Anyone have a favorite PCIe USB 3.1 card that actually
works right?Â* Siig?


Many thanks,
-T


On W7, I have the likes of this;
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB3-0-2-...EAAOSwo4pYfykP

It came with a min-disk that had several drivers (Setup.exe type) on,
(turns out to have a VIA chip).
The blue socket is for a twin front panel USB3 socket.
I had a little difficulty with the bracket that didn't quite stretch to
the case (had to bend it a little).

There is also a similar version of the same with all 4 USB3 sockets at
the back;
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PCI-E-USB...AOSwBSxbDCn j


I try to avoid Fleabay. Who makes these cards?

Probably most, maybe all, are made in China. The "maker" just slaps
their sticker on the product. For example, Corsair doesn't manufacture
anything but specs out what they want someone else to make, puts their
name on it, and users are led to believe because "Corsair" is on the
product that it must be better than some OEM or white label product.
The same plant can manufacture crappy, mediocre, and excellent products
depending on what their told to build. There are lots of video cards
that are built only to the reference model for the GPU, so they're easy
to "design" (it's already been done).

I could tell who made the USB card in the first eBay auction. In the
second one and its pics, , I noticed "ACS-N204Plus" silkscreened on the
PCB.

https://www.google.com/search?q=acs-n204plus

which let me find:

https://www.acs.com.hk/en/

That ACS (Advanced Card Systems) is based in Hong Kong doesn't mean that
is where the card is manufacturered. ACS could be just another reseller
of some manufacturer's product. ACS tell the manufacturer what to
produce, including the silkscreened text. Their about-us page
(https://www.acs.com.hk/en/corporate-profile/) merely says they develop
the products, not that they manufacture them.

While SIIG (the "maker" in which you were interested) claims to be a
manufacturer, I've yet to see anywhere listed their production plants.
Could be they are a "someone else manufactures to SIIG's specs" brand.
When going by brand, you can only rely on their reputation regarding
quality and don't really care who actually makes the product for that
brand. Tis likely ACS makes cards for several different brands. You
just don't get the brand stickers on the products.

I don't see any USB design as being highly complicated these days. A
controller chip, some voltage regulation and diodes for connection
protection, and that's about it.

I don't see a problem with the card itself in that eBay auction. The
big problem is that it ships from Hong Kong. Items listed for location
as China end up taking 45 days for delivery to the USA due to extended
delays in customs for China. I don't know if Hong Kong for seller
location is any better. If they had regional distribution centers
(warehouses) that they stocked to avoid customs delays then the auction
should list that warehouse as from where the item ships. Even if I
elect the "Item location = UK only" (for me it would be US only since I
use the eBay.com site, not ebay.co.uk), the seller could be anywhere,
like China, but would need to ship from a distro center is the US.

The seller claims to sell "Worldwide" and yet has a huge list of
exclusions, including Hong Kong where ACS (the card "maker") is located
and all of North and South America. Geez! This seller has a very tight
range of to which countries he will sell (well, to where he will ship).

Personally I don't bother with any of their bid-only auctions. Waste of
my time. I already know that I want the product, so I'm not fighting,
er, bidding with others to get it. Plus there is a lot of sniping going
on (last second bidding). There are even sites dedicated to help buyers
snipe within the last few seconds of an auction at eBay (e.g.,
justsnipe.com). I've ran across way too many boobs that haven't done
any research on pricing to know what a product sells for. They end up
overbidding, spend more than they should, and push out everyone else
that does know the pricing. I use the "Buy It Now" filter to only look
at auctions where I can buy NOW and not waste time with bidding. By the
time you add shipping cost to an auction, you might as well as enable
the "free postage" filter to get free shipping. The seller will add in
the shipping cost since they aren't in business to lose money; however,
if there is a problem, a return on a "free shipping" item means you get
both the bid/buy-it-now price AND the initial shipping. A return on a
free-shipped item means there is no shipping cost to deduct from what
you paid. You're only stuck with the return shipping. At eBay, I used
the new, buy-it-now, free shipping, my country (for location of seller)

I don't see a problem with the card. Rather I see a seller from whom I
would NEVER buy. Also, as you noted in your reply to one of my other
posts, you don't want a 1-lane PCI-e 1x USB card, and that's what is
being sold in this eBay auction.

If you decide a PCI-e 1x daughtercard is okay for adding USB ports, why
go with just 2 ports, or just 4 ports. You can get 7-port cards. I
doubt those ports are concurrently used (even if devices are left
plugged into them). However, with the ports horizontal instead of
vertical, they can be too tight to the backplate opening. You'll need
to slide the card into the slot, plug a USB cable into both the bottom
and top ports, and THEN tighten the hold-down screw.

Just in case the StarTech card that you don't like was bought less than
30 days ago, they have a 30-day satisfaction guarantee. You'll need to
contact them to see if they honor that guarantee when their products are
sold through other sellers (Newegg, Amazon, etc).

https://www.startech.com/faq/startech-return-policy

T wrote:


He will be pulling data off a SATA II drive, so ...


So a regular USB3 card is all that's necessary. You could use
a NEC/Renesas USB3.0 card then, no problem. Renesas made 2 port
and 4 port chips for add-in cards.

USB 3.0 = USB3.1 Rev1 = ~200MB/sec in PCI Express x1 REV1 slot
= ~400MB/sec in PCI Express x1 REV2 slot
= ~450MB/sec as a Southbridge (DMI) Intel port

USB 3.1 Rev2 = ~700MB/sec in PCI Express x2 REV2 slot (slot size x4)
~700MB/sec in PCI Express x1 REV3 slot (slot size x1)
= (faster as a native port on a Intel Southbridge perhaps)

USB 3.2 (just arrived) = (20Gbit/sec available on USB C in dual lane mode)
(as practical as chrome bumpers and white-wall tires
on a car, no peripheral in sight)

The first step, is a *slot survey* to see what resources
are available in the machine for expansion.

Chances are, a USB3.0 card for $25 is all that's needed.
And the customer can't really be disappointed if you
plug the card into a Rev.2 slot. If you have no choice
but to use a Rev.1 slot (such slots are all too common),
then an "eagle eyed" customer is going to see the
"spikes" near the beginning of a HDTune benchmark get
clipped off by the limited slot bandwidth. Whereas
a Rev.2 slot will satisfy at least some usage of
an SSD being plugged inside the drive enclosure.

Paul

T wrote:
On 06/02/2018 12:49 AM, VanguardLH wrote:

Does the mobo support eSATA

one port

problem with eSata. Windows does not have the cool tools for mount,
unmount, and eject as does Linux. So, the customer has to plug
it in and leave it. eSata ain't portable under Windows. Sure
there are utilities for that, but they suck.

Wrong, wrong, and wrong. What were you thinking Obi-Wan ?
How can you have an ESATA connector on the back of a
computer, without Eject capability ? It was designed
for easy Plug/Unplug. The OS *has* to support that.
We can't have people running around ripping off
connectors, without some mechanism to do it safely.

Windows supports Hot Plug for ESATA and even for regular SATA.
In fact, it will even pretend you can eject C: but it
won't actually let you do that because (like Unix/Linux)
"the volume is busy" :-) These features were first
exposed when Hot Plug SATA first came out, and Microsoft
has had to clean up the UI a bit over the years, so as to
avoid scaring people. (People *hated* seeing SATA drives
offered for ejection... Especially seeing C: in the list.)

On any decent motherboard in a tower, look for an enable/disable
for Hot Plug in the BIOS. That can gate off availability.
You'll need to turn it on there first.

If you're serious about using a SATA dock for the customer (say),
there are articles on making this more convenient. You could
probably get a 5.25" tray that allows SATA tray operation, then
run a SATA cable from the back of that to the motherboard SATA
area. A superior tray for a tower, uses gentle lever mechanisms
for pulling the drive, as doing Hot Plug runs the risk
of mechanical damage if the spindle is still spinning.

https://superuser.com/questions/8172...ect-in-windows

Use the small utility HotSwap!.

http://mt-naka.com/hotswap/index_enu.htm

"About HotSwap!

This software is developed based on the information Knowledge Base
Article #10744 - SATA: Hot Plugging Drives under Win2000/XP
(Internet Archive) provided by Silicon Image.

It does the same thing as you can remove device from Device Manager
but it provides much friendly user interface as you remove the
removable device from the "Safely Remove Hardware" icon in the
notification area. It also ensures that all data are written
and flushed to the disk before the device to be hot-swapped,
so you can use SATA/eSATA drive as a removable device much
alike USB/IEEE1394 drive.
"

That's the part I can't vouch for on Windows, is nicely
reproducible "parking" of hardware. For example, my
newest machine, if I "Safely Remove" a USB enclosure
with an SSD inside, the SSD keeps counting "dirty shutdowns"
implying for some reason it hasn't been put in a safe
state inside the enclosure. This is why it's generally
a good idea to buy enclosures with a USB LED that indicates
the quiescent state, before unplugging. Not all Windows
OSes seem to do this properly. (I can count on WinXP to
do it right!)

One of the hints in the SuperUser article, is to use Disk Management
to put a disk in the Offline state, to "encourage" a non-busy
hardware state. I've even had one report from someone who had
to do this for a *USB* drive - they can't safely remove a USB
HDD enclosure connection, without putting the drive "offline"
in Disk Management.

If you find a setup requires the "offline" trick, don't forget
that later when plugged back in, you have to set it "online"
again, because the system remembers the state across reboots.

My recommendation ? Play with it a bit more.

A "best" kind of design, would allow Safely Remove from
Windows, then, a power switch on the enclosure, so that
you can be absolutely certain the spindle is stopped
and the heads parked before moving it.

One of the reasons I don't like "toaster docks", is
because of the possibility of handling things while
they're still actually spinning. You want to test and
*make sure* (put ear to hard drive) that the software
is actually putting the drive in the desired state.
There's no point having a fancy "eject" setup, if you're
damaging the hardware doing it. Test test test... before
giving to a customer!

States:

1) Fully working.
2) Change drive to "Offline", which dismounts all partitions.
(There may be other ways to do a dismount besides that.)
3) Try safely remove, using some means.

4) Verify the damn spindle is stopping properly. Not
all hardware combinations seem to be handling this
properly (the proof being my SSD is reporting
"emergency power" events). You must *test* this is
working, before release to an actual customer.
If SMART reports more and more "emergency power"
type events, something isn't right, and you shouldn't
leave things in that miserable state. It could damage
something, if it was "for real".

Better than nothing, is a power switch you can use,
to switch off the power after (3), so at least any
rotating HDDs will be parked (even if it's
counted as an "emergency power" event). On consumer
SSDs, emergency power events counted are *not* a good thing.
Consumer SSDs don't have a supercap, and we don't
know how well they handle power events.
You could (eventually) brick the SSD drive.

5) Unplug "cold" drive and walk away with it.

You could do most of this testing on your home
setup (match the customer OS!!!), but I would
suggest verifying (4) onsite. Don't do a sloppy job.
I wouldn't have to offer warnings about (4), except
for the mixed results I'm seeing here. The results
don't inspire confidence, and could be due to the
enclosure chip design or firmware on my setup.

I did have SATA Hot Plug set up once here, but it's
not something I leave setup or enabled. I at
least proved it worked.

The first discovery of Hot Plug that I remember,
was by a USENET participant. He was relating how
he broke the SATA connector on a hard drive :-\
"And when he would hold up the SATA connector
against the hard drive stub, he could see his data
and get his files off." He transferred all the files
off the hard drive, by holding the connector against
it. That was the first case of accidentally
noticing that Silicon Image had put Hot Plug
support in their driver, before Windows did.
It was pretty funny at the time. At the time,
we wouldn't have predicted that would happen
(no one would have suggested just holding
the connector against it like that).

Paul

T wrote:
On 06/02/2018 01:07 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote:

If I move down to 3.0, I get

http://www.siig.com/it-products/usb/...-3-0-pcie.html


with w7 support and a sata power connector

You would only be moving down from USB 3.1 (10 Gbps) *if* the external
USB-attached drive also supports USB 3.1. Does it?

Not spec'ed out yet.

Also, while it mentions a PCI-e slot as a requirement,

I find USB 3 on a one lane to be slow. So I prefer cards that
use four lanes.

Know what mobo is in the computer?

Dell OptiPlex 960

It is old, but it is sweet running Windows 7 and
he loves the computer.

He has other computers running Where's Waldo (W10)
and he hates them, which is something I find a lot.
(Classic Shell and Shut Up 10 help a lot in
that respect.)


https://www.dell.com/downloads/globa...idebook-en.pdf

Chipset Q45/ICH10DO

https://s15.postimg.cc/iebrabknv/q45.gif

The processor PCI Express x16 is likely Rev.2 standard.

The add-in card slots are wired to Rev.1 x1 via ICH10
and the DMI bus.

So a USB3 card will give close to 200MB/sec or so in
an x1 slot. If the $25 NEC/Renesas USB3 card was plugged
into the video card slot, it would go faster.

You wouldn't be able to use a USB3.1 Rev.2 with x4
connector, unless it plugged into the video card slot.
With the purpose being there, to take advantage of
the Asmedia two lane chip interface to gain extra speed
from the bus side.

In the PostImage picture, notice this system has the
added complexity of sharing video card slot lane wiring
with the Q45 GPU graphics connectors. I presume that means the
slot is wired x8, as it wouldn't be too good
to be using muxes or something to share the I/Os.
What cheapness, Intel !!! What would it have cost them
to put separate pins for those graphics digital outputs ?

Paul

On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 16:33:47 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:

The last bricks-and-mortar computer store that I visited was a
MicroCenter in about 2003/2004. After that, I did about 10 years
exclusively with Newegg, and since then I'm 90/10 with Amazon and
Newegg. We have Best Buy stores around here, the nearest about 10-15
minutes away, but I haven't been in there.

A big advantage of bricks-and-mortar stores is that you can actually see
and feel the products, like mice, keyboards, and monitors, to know what
they are really like.

Yes, of course. I mentioned that in the post to which you responded.

Amazon seems to know what they're doing. With Prime, ...

Prime requires a paid subscription: $13/month or $199/year. Uffdah!

https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Prime-.../dp/B00DBYBNEE

I assume $199 was a typo - the annual cost is going up to $119/year
(from $99/year), so the next time I renew it'll be at the higher price.
I wasn't trying to sell their Prime service to anyone. I was simply
pointing out that it makes financial sense for _me_. I hit the breakeven
point every year around month #4, month #5 at the latest. After that,
it's all free shipping and very fast delivery. I also use the Prime
Video service quite a bit, which makes a nice complement to Netflix
(which I don't pay for). I don't use the music service or the magazines
or the books.

Besides, I rarely need a product RIGHT NOW and if I did then I'd pay the
high-priced overnight delivery on a one-time basis instead of getting
suckered into a recurring monthly or yearly subscription.

Do the math to avoid getting suckered. Prime is an excellent deal for
me, but if you order infrequently it's almost certainly not a good deal
for you.

With eBay

eBay is my place of last resort. I've bought and sold on eBay, and more
often than not the experience has been disappointing in some way.

--

Char Jackson

On 02/06/2018 03:13, T wrote:
On 06/01/2018 06:38 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote:

T wrote:

T wrote:

Anyone have a favorite PCIe USB 3.1 card that actually
works right?Â* Siig?

I am looking at this one:

http://www.siig.com/it-products/usb/...-type-a-c.html


But I can not tell which chipset it uses

Found it:

Chipset: Asmedia ASM1142

Wonder if it works any better than the asmedia 2142?

Note the list of operating systems supported by this card at:

http://www.siig.com/download/search/...d=JU-P20A12-S1
(when going to your link for the product page, I clicked on Downloads to
see what were available for this card.)

Windows 7 is not included.Â* Why?Â* SIIG does *not* provide a driver for
this card.Â* They rely on the one included in Windows.Â* However, as
mentioned in my reply to Paul, Windows 7 only supports up to USB 2.0.
Windows 7 does *NOT* natively support USB 3.x, so you cannot use this
card with Windows 7.Â* you MUST install a driver in Windows 7 to add USB
3.x, and SIIG doesn't provide one for that card.


I just will install the chipset drivers from Intel


But you just said it's not an Intel chip:

Chipset: Asmedia ASM1142

--

Brian Gregory (in England).

On 06/04/2018 10:41 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 16:33:47 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:

The last bricks-and-mortar computer store that I visited was a
MicroCenter in about 2003/2004. After that, I did about 10 years
exclusively with Newegg, and since then I'm 90/10 with Amazon and
Newegg. We have Best Buy stores around here, the nearest about 10-15
minutes away, but I haven't been in there.

A big advantage of bricks-and-mortar stores is that you can actually see
and feel the products, like mice, keyboards, and monitors, to know what
they are really like.

Yes, of course. I mentioned that in the post to which you responded.

Amazon seems to know what they're doing. With Prime, ...

Prime requires a paid subscription: $13/month or $199/year. Uffdah!

https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Prime-.../dp/B00DBYBNEE

I assume $199 was a typo - the annual cost is going up to $119/year
(from $99/year), so the next time I renew it'll be at the higher price.
I wasn't trying to sell their Prime service to anyone. I was simply
pointing out that it makes financial sense for _me_. I hit the breakeven
point every year around month #4, month #5 at the latest. After that,
it's all free shipping and very fast delivery. I also use the Prime
Video service quite a bit, which makes a nice complement to Netflix
(which I don't pay for). I don't use the music service or the magazines
or the books.

Besides, I rarely need a product RIGHT NOW and if I did then I'd pay the
high-priced overnight delivery on a one-time basis instead of getting
suckered into a recurring monthly or yearly subscription.

Do the math to avoid getting suckered. Prime is an excellent deal for
me, but if you order infrequently it's almost certainly not a good deal
for you.

With eBay

eBay is my place of last resort. I've bought and sold on eBay, and more
often than not the experience has been disappointing in some way.


I found it strange that our Canadian Amazon price did not increase,
Thank goodness, still $79.00 I just renewed mine a couple weeks ago.
I use Amazon prime a lot as the big major stores are all moved to the
outskirts of the city and seeing I don't drive or own a vehicle and cab
fares are so expensive I tend to use Amazon Prime a lot.
No delivery costs and 2 day service are great, And I have never had to
return anything.
I don't use the music and movie things, just the shopping part.

Rene

On 06/04/2018 05:47 AM, Paul wrote:
T wrote:
On 06/02/2018 12:49 AM, VanguardLH wrote:

Does the mobo support eSATA

one port

problem with eSata.Â* Windows does not have the cool tools for mount,
unmount, and eject as does Linux.Â* So, the customer has to plug
it in and leave it.Â* eSata ain't portable under Windows.Â* Sure
there are utilities for that, but they suck.

Wrong, wrong, and wrong. What were you thinking Obi-Wan ?
How can you have an ESATA connector on the back of a
computer, without Eject capability ? It was designed
for easy Plug/Unplug. The OS *has* to support that.
We can't have people running around ripping off
connectors, without some mechanism to do it safely.

Windows supports Hot Plug for ESATA and even for regular SATA.
In fact, it will even pretend you can eject C: but it
won't actually let you do that because (like Unix/Linux)
"the volume is busy" :-) These features were first
exposed when Hot Plug SATA first came out, and Microsoft
has had to clean up the UI a bit over the years, so as to
avoid scaring people. (People *hated* seeing SATA drives
offered for ejection... Especially seeing C: in the list.)

On any decent motherboard in a tower, look for an enable/disable
for Hot Plug in the BIOS. That can gate off availability.
You'll need to turn it on there first.

If you're serious about using a SATA dock for the customer (say),
there are articles on making this more convenient. You could
probably get a 5.25" tray that allows SATA tray operation, then
run a SATA cable from the back of that to the motherboard SATA
area. A superior tray for a tower, uses gentle lever mechanisms
for pulling the drive, as doing Hot Plug runs the risk
of mechanical damage if the spindle is still spinning.

https://superuser.com/questions/8172...ect-in-windows


Â*Â* Use the small utility HotSwap!.

Â*Â* http://mt-naka.com/hotswap/index_enu.htm

Â*Â*Â*Â* "About HotSwap!

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* This software is developed based on the information Knowledge Base
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Article #10744 - SATA: Hot Plugging Drives under Win2000/XP
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* (Internet Archive) provided by Silicon Image.

Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* It does the same thing as you can remove device from Device Manager
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* but it provides much friendly user interface as you remove the
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* removable device from the "Safely Remove Hardware" icon in the
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* notification area. It also ensures that all data are written
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* and flushed to the disk before the device to be hot-swapped,
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* so you can use SATA/eSATA drive as a removable device much
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* alike USB/IEEE1394 drive.
Â*Â*Â*Â* "

That's the part I can't vouch for on Windows, is nicely
reproducible "parking" of hardware. For example, my
newest machine, if I "Safely Remove" a USB enclosure
with an SSD inside, the SSD keeps counting "dirty shutdowns"
implying for some reason it hasn't been put in a safe
state inside the enclosure. This is why it's generally
a good idea to buy enclosures with a USB LED that indicates
the quiescent state, before unplugging. Not all Windows
OSes seem to do this properly. (I can count on WinXP to
do it right!)

One of the hints in the SuperUser article, is to use Disk Management
to put a disk in the Offline state, to "encourage" a non-busy
hardware state. I've even had one report from someone who had
to do this for a *USB* drive - they can't safely remove a USB
HDD enclosure connection, without putting the drive "offline"
in Disk Management.

If you find a setup requires the "offline" trick, don't forget
that later when plugged back in, you have to set it "online"
again, because the system remembers the state across reboots.

My recommendation ? Play with it a bit more.

A "best" kind of design, would allow Safely Remove from
Windows, then, a power switch on the enclosure, so that
you can be absolutely certain the spindle is stopped
and the heads parked before moving it.

One of the reasons I don't like "toaster docks", is
because of the possibility of handling things while
they're still actually spinning. You want to test and
*make sure* (put ear to hard drive) that the software
is actually putting the drive in the desired state.
There's no point having a fancy "eject" setup, if you're
damaging the hardware doing it. Test test test... before
giving to a customer!

States:

1) Fully working.
2) Change drive to "Offline", which dismounts all partitions.
Â*Â* (There may be other ways to do a dismount besides that.)
3) Try safely remove, using some means.

4) Verify the damn spindle is stopping properly. Not
Â*Â* all hardware combinations seem to be handling this
Â*Â* properly (the proof being my SSD is reporting
Â*Â* "emergency power" events). You must *test* this is
Â*Â* working, before release to an actual customer.
Â*Â* If SMART reports more and more "emergency power"
Â*Â* type events, something isn't right, and you shouldn't
Â*Â* leave things in that miserable state. It could damage
Â*Â* something, if it was "for real".

Â*Â* Better than nothing, is a power switch you can use,
Â*Â* to switch off the power after (3), so at least any
Â*Â* rotating HDDs will be parked (even if it's
Â*Â* counted as an "emergency power" event). On consumer
Â*Â* SSDs, emergency power events counted are *not* a good thing.
Â*Â* Consumer SSDs don't have a supercap, and we don't
Â*Â* know how well they handle power events.
Â*Â* You could (eventually) brick the SSD drive.

5) Unplug "cold" drive and walk away with it.

You could do most of this testing on your home
setup (match the customer OS!!!), but I would
suggest verifying (4) onsite. Don't do a sloppy job.
I wouldn't have to offer warnings about (4), except
for the mixed results I'm seeing here. The results
don't inspire confidence, and could be due to the
enclosure chip design or firmware on my setup.

I did have SATA Hot Plug set up once here, but it's
not something I leave setup or enabled. I at
least proved it worked.

The first discovery of Hot Plug that I remember,
was by a USENET participant. He was relating how
he broke the SATA connector on a hard drive :-\
"And when he would hold up the SATA connector
against the hard drive stub, he could see his data
and get his files off." He transferred all the files
off the hard drive, by holding the connector against
it. That was the first case of accidentally
noticing that Silicon Image had put Hot Plug
support in their driver, before Windows did.
It was pretty funny at the time. At the time,
we wouldn't have predicted that would happen
(no one would have suggested just holding
the connector against it like that).

Â*Â* Paul

Kinda, sorta, suppose to. Windows and hot plug, Oh Boy.
Doesn't matter if the hardware is designed for it or not.

On 06/04/2018 04:46 AM, Paul wrote:
T wrote:


He will be pulling data off a SATA II drive, so ...


So a regular USB3 card is all that's necessary. You could use
a NEC/Renesas USB3.0 card then, no problem. Renesas made 2 port
and 4 port chips for add-in cards.

USB 3.0 = USB3.1 Rev1 = ~200MB/sec in PCI Express x1 REV1 slot
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* = ~400MB/sec in PCI Express x1 REV2 slot
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* = ~450MB/sec as a Southbridge (DMI) Intel port

USB 3.1 Rev2Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* = ~700MB/sec in PCI Express x2 REV2 slot (slot
size x4)
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* ~700MB/sec in PCI Express x1 REV3 slot (slot
size x1)
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* = (faster as a native port on a Intel Southbridge
perhaps)

USB 3.2 (just arrived)Â* = (20Gbit/sec available on USB C in dual lane mode)
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* (as practical as chrome bumpers and
white-wall tires
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â* on a car, no peripheral in sight)

The first step, is a *slot survey* to see what resources
are available in the machine for expansion.

Chances are, a USB3.0 card for $25 is all that's needed.
And the customer can't really be disappointed if you
plug the card into a Rev.2 slot. If you have no choice
but to use a Rev.1 slot (such slots are all too common),
then an "eagle eyed" customer is going to see the
"spikes" near the beginning of a HDTune benchmark get
clipped off by the limited slot bandwidth. Whereas
a Rev.2 slot will satisfy at least some usage of
an SSD being plugged inside the drive enclosure.

Â*Â* Paul

Except I have had bad experiences out the wazoo with NEC/Renesas
cards. Basically, you have to put them in and test them
and cross your fingers and hope not to look like an idiot
to the customer. Sometimes they work, some times they work
for "a while", sometimes the drives work but you have to
boot several times each time you power down, and other times
they don't. And when you FINALLY find a model that works
in a particular machine, it won't work anywhere else.
You typically look like an idiot.

I am to the point where I will recommend installing a second
internal hard drive or going with carbonite.

On 06/04/2018 06:28 AM, Paul wrote:
T wrote:
On 06/02/2018 01:07 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote:

If I move down to 3.0, I get

http://www.siig.com/it-products/usb/...-3-0-pcie.html


with w7 support and a sata power connector

You would only be moving down from USB 3.1 (10 Gbps) *if* the external
USB-attached drive also supports USB 3.1.Â* Does it?

Not spec'ed out yet.

Also, while it mentions a PCI-e slot as a requirement,

I find USB 3 on a one lane to be slow.Â* So I prefer cards that
use four lanes.

Know what mobo is in the computer?

Dell OptiPlex 960

It is old, but it is sweet running Windows 7 and
he loves the computer.

He has other computers running Where's Waldo (W10)
and he hates them, which is something I find a lot.
(Classic Shell and Shut Up 10 help a lot in
that respect.)


https://www.dell.com/downloads/globa...idebook-en.pdf


Â*Â* Chipset Q45/ICH10DO

Â*Â* https://s15.postimg.cc/iebrabknv/q45.gif

The processor PCI Express x16 is likely Rev.2 standard.

The add-in card slots are wired to Rev.1 x1 via ICH10
and the DMI bus.

So a USB3 card will give close to 200MB/sec or so in
an x1 slot. If the $25 NEC/Renesas USB3 card was plugged
into the video card slot, it would go faster.

You wouldn't be able to use a USB3.1 Rev.2 with x4
connector, unless it plugged into the video card slot.
With the purpose being there, to take advantage of
the Asmedia two lane chip interface to gain extra speed
from the bus side.

In the PostImage picture, notice this system has the
added complexity of sharing video card slot lane wiring
with the Q45 GPU graphics connectors. I presume that means the
slot is wired x8, as it wouldn't be too good
to be using muxes or something to share the I/Os.
What cheapness, Intel !!! What would it have cost them
to put separate pins for those graphics digital outputs ?

Â*Â* Paul

Ya, I was just going to plug into the 16 lane slot.

The guy really should get a new computer, but he hates
Windows 10.

He is also a new customer. And telling a new customer
to get a new computer typically turns him into a
former customer.

On 06/04/2018 10:32 AM, Brian Gregory wrote:
On 02/06/2018 03:13, T wrote:

But you just said it's not an Intel chip:

Chipset: Asmedia ASM1142

me make boo-boo.

I wonder if there are an USB3.1 cards with Intel chipsets?

T wrote:
On 06/04/2018 06:28 AM, Paul wrote:
T wrote:
On 06/02/2018 01:07 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote:

If I move down to 3.0, I get

http://www.siig.com/it-products/usb/...-3-0-pcie.html


with w7 support and a sata power connector

You would only be moving down from USB 3.1 (10 Gbps) *if* the external
USB-attached drive also supports USB 3.1. Does it?

Not spec'ed out yet.

Also, while it mentions a PCI-e slot as a requirement,

I find USB 3 on a one lane to be slow. So I prefer cards that
use four lanes.

Know what mobo is in the computer?

Dell OptiPlex 960

It is old, but it is sweet running Windows 7 and
he loves the computer.

He has other computers running Where's Waldo (W10)
and he hates them, which is something I find a lot.
(Classic Shell and Shut Up 10 help a lot in
that respect.)


https://www.dell.com/downloads/globa...idebook-en.pdf


Chipset Q45/ICH10DO

https://s15.postimg.cc/iebrabknv/q45.gif

The processor PCI Express x16 is likely Rev.2 standard.

The add-in card slots are wired to Rev.1 x1 via ICH10
and the DMI bus.

So a USB3 card will give close to 200MB/sec or so in
an x1 slot. If the $25 NEC/Renesas USB3 card was plugged
into the video card slot, it would go faster.

You wouldn't be able to use a USB3.1 Rev.2 with x4
connector, unless it plugged into the video card slot.
With the purpose being there, to take advantage of
the Asmedia two lane chip interface to gain extra speed
from the bus side.

In the PostImage picture, notice this system has the
added complexity of sharing video card slot lane wiring
with the Q45 GPU graphics connectors. I presume that means the
slot is wired x8, as it wouldn't be too good
to be using muxes or something to share the I/Os.
What cheapness, Intel !!! What would it have cost them
to put separate pins for those graphics digital outputs ?

Paul

Ya, I was just going to plug into the 16 lane slot.

The guy really should get a new computer, but he hates
Windows 10.

He is also a new customer. And telling a new customer
to get a new computer typically turns him into a
former customer.


Since the video card slot is Rev.2, that should be
a good fit for a $25 USB3 card.

Paul