Question about delaying 2004 upgrade

I've heard and read the stories about the bugs in the 2004 upgrade/update. I've now been offered the update and of course I have the
option of not loading it.

Question is, is there any merit to waiting? If I wait, won't the update still be the same old code full of bugs? I guess the only benefit
will be that there may be more patches to fix the bugs right?

Al

On 6/23/2020 7:53 AM, Big Al wrote:
I've heard and read the stories about the bugs in the 2004
upgrade/update.Â*Â* I've now been offered the update and of course I have
the option of not loading it.

Question is, is there any merit to waiting?Â* If I wait, won't the update
still be the same old code full of bugs?Â*Â* I guess the only benefit will
be that there may be more patches to fix the bugs right?

Al
Depends on how you use Windows 10. It you are are one of he 95% (+/- 2
sigma normal curve) of the users, you will it will download and you will
have no problems. If you are of THE 5%, wait.

On 23/06/2020 12:53, Big Al wrote:
I've heard and read the stories about the bugs in the 2004
upgrade/update.Â*Â* I've now been offered the update and of course I have
the option of not loading it.

Question is, is there any merit to waiting?Â* If I wait, won't the update
still be the same old code full of bugs?Â*Â* I guess the only benefit will
be that there may be more patches to fix the bugs right?

Al
To answer your first question - yes. In the past when there was a
serious issue MS produced a v2 iso.
In any case they regularly update it with the routine patches so in 6
months time you will not require a massive cumulative update.

On 2020-06-23 07:14, KenW wrote:
On Tue, 23 Jun 2020 07:53:11 -0400, Big Al wrote:

I've heard and read the stories about the bugs in the 2004 upgrade/update. I've now been offered the update and of course I have the
option of not loading it.

Question is, is there any merit to waiting? If I wait, won't the update still be the same old code full of bugs? I guess the only benefit
will be that there may be more patches to fix the bugs right?

Al

No problems on 4 computers. What I do is get the iso and install that
way. I don't let MS check what I have before it installs an upgrade.
The iso contains everything and not what MS wants.


KenW


My favorite way too. I have upgraded several
folks with jammed upgrades this way

On Tue, 23 Jun 2020 07:53:11 -0400, Big Al wrote:

Question is, is there any merit to waiting?

Here's my take, having up{graded,dated} a couple machines.
1. There is not much value in the Win10v2004 up{date,grade}.
2. There is not much risk in doing the Win10v2004 up{date,grade}.

Seems to me the decision is one of risk:reward...
o Where there's not much risk and even less reward (IMHO).

Risk:
o Are you willing to deal with any potential issues (however minor)?

Reward:
o Is there anything you really want that is in Win10v2004?
--
Seems to me a coin toss should break the tie.

Big Al wrote:
I've heard and read the stories about the bugs in the 2004
upgrade/update. I've now been offered the update and of course I have
the option of not loading it.

Question is, is there any merit to waiting? If I wait, won't the update
still be the same old code full of bugs? I guess the only benefit will
be that there may be more patches to fix the bugs right?

Al

In a release cycle, they have releases a V2 version of installer,
in the interest of bandwidth reduction, but the question is,
who would test it ?

What they released (19041.1) didn't seem to be tested.

The release was, ah, "frozen", but at release did not seem
to be the same as what people had been testing.

*******

If they wait three months and release a clunker
that creates another buglist-wave, are they
any further ahead ?

I think they're quite happy with their ISO+patches
method being used at the moment.

All that 19041.1 has to do, is "not crash", so that
the incoming patch after the reboot, can bring it
to 19041.326 or whatever. And then the .326 part
brings their "quality" (as a function of how many
bugs they fix).

Summary: If you wait, maybe your printer will work.

Paul

On 6/23/20 12:14 PM, this is what Paul wrote:
Big Al wrote:
I've heard and read the stories about the bugs in the 2004 upgrade/update.Â*Â* I've now been offered the update and of course I have the
option of not loading it.

Question is, is there any merit to waiting?Â* If I wait, won't the update still be the same old code full of bugs?Â*Â* I guess the only
benefit will be that there may be more patches to fix the bugs right?

Al

In a release cycle, they have releases a V2 version of installer,
in the interest of bandwidth reduction, but the question is,
who would test it ?

What they released (19041.1) didn't seem to be tested.

The release was, ah, "frozen", but at release did not seem
to be the same as what people had been testing.

*******

If they wait three months and release a clunker
that creates another buglist-wave, are they
any further ahead ?

I think they're quite happy with their ISO+patches
method being used at the moment.

All that 19041.1 has to do, is "not crash", so that
the incoming patch after the reboot, can bring it
to 19041.326 or whatever. And then the .326 part
brings their "quality" (as a function of how many
bugs they fix).

Summary: If you wait, maybe your printer will work.

Â*Â* Paul

I'm really split. I want to see it in use, frickin' curiosity, but my main use system is Linux. And it's the boot device, and printing
route, so as long as Windows doesn't muck with the uefi partition, I'm great. And I'm sure it won't.

So I think I'' just hang in, I think as Arlen put it, "what do I need?" and since I don't use it much, "nothing!".

Al

On 6/23/2020 7:53 AM, Big Al wrote:
I've heard and read the stories about the bugs in the 2004
upgrade/update.Â*Â* I've now been offered the update and of course I have
the option of not loading it.

Question is, is there any merit to waiting?Â* If I wait, won't the update
still be the same old code full of bugs?Â*Â* I guess the only benefit will
be that there may be more patches to fix the bugs right?

Al

It was actually surprisingly problem-free for me, and usually my system
is complex enough that there is always something that screws up during
one of these "upgrades". I had already set my system to delay getting
the upgrade by a month, but I decided to go for it, not to delay it any
longer. If you have Windows 10 Pro (or Education) then you can set it to
delay upgrades by a month at a time.

Yousuf Khan

On 23/06/2020 15:14, KenW wrote:
On Tue, 23 Jun 2020 07:53:11 -0400, Big Al wrote:

I've heard and read the stories about the bugs in the 2004 upgrade/update. I've now been offered the update and of course I have the
option of not loading it.

Question is, is there any merit to waiting? If I wait, won't the update still be the same old code full of bugs? I guess the only benefit
will be that there may be more patches to fix the bugs right?

Al

No problems on 4 computers. What I do is get the iso and install that
way. I don't let MS check what I have before it installs an upgrade.
The iso contains everything and not what MS wants.


KenW


Tried that when I first installed Win10, but no drivers available for
the onboard graphics card (Radeon 3000) of this old machine. Upgrading
allowed the use of the Win7 driver, so upgrade or nothing.

I really need to buy a new PC, but keep putting it off as I'm
overwhelmed by the myriad of choices. Barebones would do, but need a
minimum of 2 year warranty and not end up with a massive paperweight in
the next ~5 years.

Big Al wrote:


I'm really split. I want to see it in use, frickin' curiosity, but my
main use system is Linux. And it's the boot device, and printing route,
so as long as Windows doesn't muck with the uefi partition, I'm great.
And I'm sure it won't.

So I think I'' just hang in, I think as Arlen put it, "what do I need?"
and since I don't use it much, "nothing!".

Al

You're not missing anything.

Paul

Dex wrote:
On 23/06/2020 15:14, KenW wrote:
On Tue, 23 Jun 2020 07:53:11 -0400, Big Al wrote:

I've heard and read the stories about the bugs in the 2004
upgrade/update. I've now been offered the update and of course I
have the
option of not loading it.

Question is, is there any merit to waiting? If I wait, won't the
update still be the same old code full of bugs? I guess the only
benefit
will be that there may be more patches to fix the bugs right?

Al

No problems on 4 computers. What I do is get the iso and install that
way. I don't let MS check what I have before it installs an upgrade.
The iso contains everything and not what MS wants.


KenW


Tried that when I first installed Win10, but no drivers available for
the onboard graphics card (Radeon 3000) of this old machine. Upgrading
allowed the use of the Win7 driver, so upgrade or nothing.

I really need to buy a new PC, but keep putting it off as I'm
overwhelmed by the myriad of choices. Barebones would do, but need a
minimum of 2 year warranty and not end up with a massive paperweight in
the next ~5 years.

Just find some old cruft :-)

https://www.staples.com/refurbished-...roduct_2431148

That would be about the same price as I paid for an Optiplex 780,
and it only had a dual core processor.

The Optiplex 790, may have this processor in it. Since the advert
lacks precision, that's not a guarantee what's in there. Some of the
refurbs have had excellent hardware descriptions so you know what is
in there.

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us...-3-40-ghz.html

When you buy through Staples, the seller can be a third-party. In
my case, a small computer shop in the downtown of my own city happened
to be the seller. And I could cut Staples out of the transaction
entirely, no shipping charges or anything. I even got install media
from the seller (something today you don't get with a refurb). This is
holographic media from Microsoft (pretty... but pointless).

Sure, there's no guarantee these work, or that they're "A Grade"
cabinets. Mine was a little scuffed up and would normally be
a "B Grade", but I'll survive.

Paul

On 23/06/2020 19:32, Paul wrote:
Dex wrote:
On 23/06/2020 15:14, KenW wrote:
On Tue, 23 Jun 2020 07:53:11 -0400, Big Al wrote:

I've heard and read the stories about the bugs in the 2004
upgrade/update. I've now been offered the update and of course I
have the
option of not loading it.

Question is, is there any merit to waiting? If I wait, won't the
update still be the same old code full of bugs? I guess the only
benefit
will be that there may be more patches to fix the bugs right?

Al

No problems on 4 computers. What I do is get the iso and install that
way. I don't let MS check what I have before it installs an upgrade.
The iso contains everything and not what MS wants.


KenW


Tried that when I first installed Win10, but no drivers available for
the onboard graphics card (Radeon 3000) of this old machine. Upgrading
allowed the use of the Win7 driver, so upgrade or nothing.

I really need to buy a new PC, but keep putting it off as I'm
overwhelmed by the myriad of choices. Barebones would do, but need a
minimum of 2 year warranty and not end up with a massive paperweight
in the next ~5 years.

Just find some old cruft :-)

https://www.staples.com/refurbished-...roduct_2431148


Only 4GB RAM, which I currently have and USB 2.0. :-(


That would be about the same price as I paid for an Optiplex 780,
and it only had a dual core processor.

The Optiplex 790, may have this processor in it. Since the advert
lacks precision, that's not a guarantee what's in there. Some of the
refurbs have had excellent hardware descriptions so you know what is
in there.

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us...-3-40-ghz.html


"graphics processing circuitry integrated into the processor" :-(


When you buy through Staples, the seller can be a third-party. In
my case, a small computer shop in the downtown of my own city happened
to be the seller. And I could cut Staples out of the transaction
entirely, no shipping charges or anything. I even got install media
from the seller (something today you don't get with a refurb). This is
holographic media from Microsoft (pretty... but pointless).

Sure, there's no guarantee these work, or that they're "A Grade"
cabinets. Mine was a little scuffed up and would normally be
a "B Grade", but I'll survive.

Paul

Both in the USA. Shoulda said I'm in the UK and not looking for
something normally seen in a office.

Bit like
https://www.awd-it.co.uk/awd-vengean...gaming-pc.html
but without the monstrosity of a light show.

On 23/06/2020 12:53, Big Al wrote:
I've heard and read the stories about the bugs in the 2004
upgrade/update.


People hear all sorts of stories these days.Â* they are just stories and
an intelligent person should treat these stories as such and not make
any serious decisions based on stories.


I've now been offered the update and of course I have the option of
not loading it.


That's wonderful.Â* Have a party and drink a bottle or two before diving
into it.


Question is, is there any merit to waiting?


There is always a merit in upgrading a system but have you got the
necessary intelligence to decide on this matter?


If I wait, won't the update still be the same old code full of bugs?


What bugs are you talking about without installing yourself and trying
it out.Â* Are you just relying on "stories" you have read? Are you just
mad and not able to know the difference between stories and reality?Â*
even a child knows the difference these days.


I guess the only benefit will be that there may be more patches to fix
the bugs right?

How do you fix bugs without introducing new ones?Â* All software packages
will have bugs as defined by the user.Â* they may not be bugs after all;Â*
Just the lower intelligence level of the user.

You can postpone the upgrade for the next 365 days if you think that
you'll have sufficient intelligence by then to make use of the latest
upgrade.Â* By then you'll have 20H2 to worry about. your worries will
never end as long as you continue using Windows 10.Â* Why don't you just
forget about Windows 10 and stick to Linux Junk as you seem to love it
because you don't have to do anything useful on it.Â* It is less taxing
to your pea-sized brain.




--
With over 1.2 billion devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.

Dex wrote:
On 23/06/2020 19:32, Paul wrote:
Dex wrote:
On 23/06/2020 15:14, KenW wrote:
On Tue, 23 Jun 2020 07:53:11 -0400, Big Al wrote:

I've heard and read the stories about the bugs in the 2004
upgrade/update. I've now been offered the update and of course I
have the
option of not loading it.

Question is, is there any merit to waiting? If I wait, won't the
update still be the same old code full of bugs? I guess the only
benefit
will be that there may be more patches to fix the bugs right?

Al

No problems on 4 computers. What I do is get the iso and install that
way. I don't let MS check what I have before it installs an upgrade.
The iso contains everything and not what MS wants.


KenW


Tried that when I first installed Win10, but no drivers available for
the onboard graphics card (Radeon 3000) of this old machine. Upgrading
allowed the use of the Win7 driver, so upgrade or nothing.

I really need to buy a new PC, but keep putting it off as I'm
overwhelmed by the myriad of choices. Barebones would do, but need a
minimum of 2 year warranty and not end up with a massive paperweight
in the next ~5 years.

Just find some old cruft :-)

https://www.staples.com/refurbished-...roduct_2431148



Only 4GB RAM, which I currently have and USB 2.0. :-(


That would be about the same price as I paid for an Optiplex 780,
and it only had a dual core processor.

The Optiplex 790, may have this processor in it. Since the advert
lacks precision, that's not a guarantee what's in there. Some of the
refurbs have had excellent hardware descriptions so you know what is
in there.

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us...-3-40-ghz.html



"graphics processing circuitry integrated into the processor" :-(


When you buy through Staples, the seller can be a third-party. In
my case, a small computer shop in the downtown of my own city happened
to be the seller. And I could cut Staples out of the transaction
entirely, no shipping charges or anything. I even got install media
from the seller (something today you don't get with a refurb). This is
holographic media from Microsoft (pretty... but pointless).

Sure, there's no guarantee these work, or that they're "A Grade"
cabinets. Mine was a little scuffed up and would normally be
a "B Grade", but I'll survive.

Paul

Both in the USA. Shoulda said I'm in the UK and not looking for
something normally seen in a office.

Bit like
https://www.awd-it.co.uk/awd-vengean...gaming-pc.html
but without the monstrosity of a light show.

True. Adding a real video card to a refurb, takes
the economy out of it. A decent video card (one
worth buying) would cost as much as that refurb, and
you'd also need to buy an adapter if you still had
a VGA LCD monitor.

A lot of the stuff offered here as finished goods, is
too expensive for what's inside. Having a machine built
is a better option, as you're in control of the materials.

I just build my own, if there's a need. The Optiplex is
an example, included for the "how bad could a BIOS be"
perspective. I don't really like the Dell BIOS - you
get the sense that nobody cared about "the results"
when they did it.

If they don't have a good collection of computer cases
to choose from, you might inquire whether you could
bring your own case for the build, and have them put
the stuff in there. Only detail might be the length
of the video card, banging against the drive enclosure
stack in the front. On my newest machine, I could
only fit a two-fan video card, because the three-fan
version would bump into the drive rack.

This is an example of some of the last decent cases.
Similar to a Sonata, with side-mount drive bays.
No RGB that I can see. Not like some of their other stuff.

"Antec Three Hundred Two Black Steel ATX Mid Tower"

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16811129180

Now, a big mark against that one, is "tool-less". That
results in materials that don't last, stuff that snaps
because it uses compression fit and so on. It's the basic
form of the thing that I like, not the "tool-less". I would
have to find an example in person, examine it for detail,
before I could buy that one. Just to see how miserable
the materials that make it tool-less are.

And that one has no "door" on the front, so you're saved
the nuisance of ripping the door off it and being stuck
with a hinge sitting there forever after :-)

At any one time, computer stores in your country will
stock more than one thousand computer case designs, and
shopping and picking through that lot is a major nuisance.
You will find contraptions with zero thought to cooling,
where your hard drives sit in stagnant air. Computer
stores will stock things that no human would ever buy.
Tin cans with sharp edges and no common sense.

Enjoy your shopping spree,

Paul

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Tue, 23 Jun 2020 07:53:11 -0400, Big Al
wrote:

I've heard and read the stories about the bugs in the 2004 upgrade/update. I've now been offered the update and of course I have the
option of not loading it.

Question is, is there any merit to waiting? If I wait, won't the update still be the same old code full of bugs? I guess the only benefit
will be that there may be more patches to fix the bugs right?

Al

You know you're 16 years late, don't you?


Oh, version 2004. I installed that 3 or 4 days ago, and I've been
having BSODs but I had them before I installed it too.