OEM versus Upgrade

wrote:
Jupiter Jones [MVP] wrote:
Contact Emachines tech support to see where you get a BIOS update.
If they refer to the actual motherboard manufacturer, that BIOS
should work OK.


Believe it or not they were the ones that actually referred me to the
motherboards BIOS update. I think now that perhaps this gentleman I
talked to in tech support did not realize the domino effect this has
created.

I hope that you are right, I will have to reinstall just to see if it
would work.


More than likely it won't work, and you will have to restore the
eMachines BIOS before restoring your system. But it couldn't hurt to
give it a try first.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

Tony, I also have a single e-machines computer in my home, it's one
my
wife uses, and I've not seen a single issue that would require it to
have
the BIOS flashed - it's a 900Mhz Celeron System running Windows XP
Professional (it came with Home Edition). When I bought the system I
was
fully aware that the EULA covered it as long as it was an e-machine,
and
that changing the motherboard or the BIOS block would be a violation
of
the EULA in addition to making the system no longer an e-machine.

The reason for the BIOS update was a troubleshooting issue. As I have
stated I added some new components that were not working properly, and
at the request of the Emachine technical support gentleman I updated my
BIOS as another troubleshooting step. Fixed one problem, now an
entirely new issue has arisen. As a result I will never purchase an OEM
at all henceforth.

Changing the BIOS with a third-party BIOS (meaning one not provided
by
e-machines, and yes, I know they don't actually provide updates),
means
you've changed the machine from an e-machines system to a clone.

I respectfully disagree with you on this point. A majority of the
system still remains OEM, just adding a new BIOS update in my
estimation does not constitute an entirely different computer. My word
for the day is buyer beware with OEM PC sales, no matter who it is.


I understand your point, but you didn't pay retail price for the OS
that
was installed and you got a lot of use out of the system before
upgrading
it. While I don't like that you can't technically use the same OEM
install
on the machine once you made it a different machine, there is really
little that you or I can do about it.

The real way to exact a change is exactly as you state - stop buying
and
they will notice. You could also buy smarter and they will notice.
You
could also switch to Linux and they would notice.

One last thing - your OS was not crippled by MS, in fact the OS was
not
crippled at all. The only thing that the OS cared about was that you
change X number of items and that requires re-activation. Now, the
restore
CD's are an issue with e-machines, not MS, e-machines (and this
varies)
locks their restore application (not the OS) to being able to detect
that
the machine is still an e-machine, so, you see, your problem is with
e-machines, not MS.


--

remove 999 in order to email me

It is crippled by being incapable of being reinstalled due to a BIOS
update. Also there are some other benifits Micro$oft provides that is
not included out of the box with many OEM installations, that also
makes it a crippled system. You have to jump through hoops to get many
of the features installed. Although on this point mileage may vary with
the system builder.

Yes I see your point here with it being an Emachine issue, call it a
case of misplaced anger. Rest assured I will not purchase an Emachine
again, or any other OEM manufactured PC. Will build my own from here on
out. Lastly, Linux is looking better and better.

Tony

Leythos wrote:
On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:27:45 -0800, justicedood wrote:
[snip]
This is a really good discussion and one for the legalese books.
Bravo!

I find myself in the predicament Lythos has hinted to in this
discussion. I have an Emachines with an OEM Windows XP Restore CD. I
recently have been in the process of upgrading the hard drive,
drivers, RAM, etc., all of which have given me no significant
problems. However, when I was in the process of upgrading my
Motherboard's BIOS Windows XP screamed at me first chance it had to
reactivate. This only hints at future trouble when I try to
reinstall Windows XP with the manufacturers OEM CD if what Leythos
has stated here is true. All due to a BIOS update that was necessary
as it provided fixes for my currently installed processor as well as
some other known issues. It is virtually the same piece of hardware,
only updated. Doesn't seem fair to me.

Tony, I also have a single e-machines computer in my home, it's one my
wife uses, and I've not seen a single issue that would require it to
have the BIOS flashed - it's a 900Mhz Celeron System running Windows
XP Professional (it came with Home Edition). When I bought the system
I was fully aware that the EULA covered it as long as it was an
e-machine, and that changing the motherboard or the BIOS block would
be a violation of the EULA in addition to making the system no longer
an e-machine.

Changing the BIOS with a third-party BIOS (meaning one not provided by
e-machines, and yes, I know they don't actually provide updates),
means you've changed the machine from an e-machines system to a clone.


snip

Based on Lamethos's limited experience with ONE eMachine! OMG, is this
guy for real?!

So why did eMachines tech support tell him to change the BIOS to fix his
situation Lamethos?

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

"Leythos" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:08:25 +0100, Alias wrote:


"Leythos" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:40:00 +0200, Opinicus wrote:

"Leythos" wrote

The EULA for OEM states the Motherboard.

Really? Where?

https://oem.microsoft.com/script/Con...?pageid=552862

To get in with IE, one needs to sign into Net Passport. F!ck that sh!t
...
got an url that doesn't require "activation"???

Works fine in FireFox and Linux from here. No Activation needed. You do
need a passport, but that has nothing to do with needing IE or Windows, as
I'm using a Linux box to view it.

I don't want MS' passport. Got an url that doesn't require "activation".

Since I posted what was shown in the document you could just trust that I
didn't make it up :-)

I just read mine. It's in English. No motherboard is mentioned. It does say
it has to be bought with hardware but, as we know, that doesn't apply in
Spain. The only thing defining a computer is this:

"The term "COMPUTER" as used herein shall mean the HARDWARE, if
the HARDWARE is a single computer system, or shall mean the
computer system with which the HARDWARE operates, if the
HARDWARE is a computer system component."

Here's the complete EULA:

Microsoft Windows XP Professional,
Microsoft(r) Windows(r) XP Tablet PC Edition and
Microsoft(r) Windows(r) XP Media Center Edition
END-USER LICENSE AGREEMENT

IMPORTANT-READ CAREFULLY: This End-User
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TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE
LAW, THE SUPPLEMENTAL COMPONENTS AND ANY (IF
ANY) SUPPORT SERVICES RELATED TO THE
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3. UPGRADES. If the SOFTWARE is labeled as an upgrade, you
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LIMITED WARRANTIES, LIMITATION OF
LIABILITY AND SPECIAL PROVISIONS ARE AN
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APPENDIX
WARRANTY AND SPECIAL PROVISIONS
FOR
AUSTRALIA, NEW ZEALAND OR PAPUA NEW GUINEA

EXPRESS LIMITED WARRANTY

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rights or remedies pursuant to the Trade Practices Act and
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liability may not be excluded.

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warranty is void if failure of the SOFTWARE or Microsoft
hardware has resulted from accident, abuse or misapplication.
Any replacement SOFTWARE and/or Microsoft hardware will be
warranted for the remainder of the original warranty period or
30 days, whichever is longer.

LIMITATION OF LIABILITY. To the maximum
extent permitted by applicable law, any conditions or
warranties imposed or implied by law are hereby excluded.
Consumers may nevertheless have the benefit of certain rights
or remedies pursuant to the Trade Practices Act and similar
state and territory laws in Australia or the Consumer
Guarantees Act in New Zealand, in respect of which liability
may not be excluded. Insofar as such liability may not be
excluded, then to the maximum extent permitted by law, such
liability is limited, at the exclusive option of
Manufacturer, to either (a) replacement of the SOFTWARE (and
any accompanying hardware supplied); or (b) correction of
defects in the SOFTWARE; or (c) payment of the cost of having
defects in the SOFTWARE (and any accompanying hardware
supplied).

EXCLUSION OF LIABILITY/DAMAGES. The
following is without prejudice to any rights you may have at
law which cannot legally be excluded or restricted. You
acknowledge that no promise, representation, warranty or
undertaking has been made or given by Manufacturer and/or
Microsoft Corporation (or related company of either) to any
person or company on its behalf in relation to the
profitability of or any other consequences or benefits to be
obtained from the delivery or use of the SOFTWARE and any
accompanying Microsoft hardware, software, manuals or written
materials. You have relied upon your own skill and judgement
in deciding to acquire the SOFTWARE and any accompanying
hardware, manuals and written materials for use by you.
Except as and to the extent provided in this agreement,
neither Manufacturer and/or Microsoft Corporation (or related
company of either) will in any circumstances be liable for any
other damages whatsoever (including, without limitation,
damages for loss of business, business interruption, loss of
business information or other indirect or consequential loss)
arising out of the use or inability to use or supply or non
-supply of the SOFTWARE and any accompanying hardware and
written materials. Manufacturer's and/or Microsoft
Corporation (or related company of either) total liability
under any provision of this agreement is in any case limited
to the amount actually paid by you for the SOFTWARE and/or
Microsoft hardware.

This agreement is governed by the laws of New South Wales,
Australia or, where supplies are made in New Zealand, by the
laws of New Zealand.

APPENDIX
WARRANTY AND SPECIAL PROVISIONS
FOR
ENGLAND, SCOTLAND, WALES AND IRELAND

LIMITED WARRANTY

LIMITED WARRANTY. Manufacturer warrants that (a) the
SOFTWARE will perform substantially in accordance with the
accompanying written materials for a period of ninety (90)
days from the date of receipt, and (b) any Microsoft hardware
accompanying the SOFTWARE will be free from defects in
materials and workmanship under normal use and service for a
period of one (1) year from the date of receipt. Any implied
warranties on the SOFTWARE and Microsoft hardware are limited
to ninety (90) days and one (1) year, respectively.
Some states/jurisdictions do not allow limitations on duration
of an implied warranty, so the above limitation may not apply to you.

CUSTOMER REMEDIES. Manufacturer's and its suppliers' entire
liability and your exclusive remedy shall be, at
Manufacturer's option, either (a) return of the price paid, or
(b) repair or replacement of the SOFTWARE or hardware that
does not meet this Limited Warranty and which is returned to
Manufacturer with a copy of your receipt. This Limited
Warranty is void if failure of the SOFTWARE or hardware has
resulted from accident, abuse, or misapplication. Any
replacement SOFTWARE or hardware will be warranted for the
remainder of the original warranty period or thirty (30) days,
whichever is longer.

NO OTHER WARRANTIES. To the maximum extent permitted by
applicable law, Manufacturer and its suppliers disclaim all
other representations, warranties, conditions or other terms,
either express or implied, including, but not limited to
implied warranties amd/or conditions of merchantability and
fitness for a particular purpose, with regard to the SOFTWARE,
the accompanying written materials, and any accompanying
hardware. This limited warranty gives you specific legal
rights. You may have others which vary from state
/jurisdiction to state/jurisdiction.

NO LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES. To
the maximum extent permitted by applicable law, in no event
shall Manufacturer or its suppliers be liable for any damages
whatsoever (including without limitation, direct or indirect
damages for personal injury, loss of business profits,
business interruption, loss of business information, or any
other pecuniary loss) arising out of the use of or inability
to use this product, even if Manufacturer has been advised of
the possibility of such damages. In any case, Manufacturer's
and its suppliers' entire liability under any provision of
this agreement shall be limited to the amount actually paid by
you for the SOFTWARE and/or Microsoft hardware. Because some
states/jurisdictions do not allow the exclusion or limitation
of liability for consequential or incidental damages, the
above limitation may not apply to you.

SPECIAL PROVISIONS

Reverse Engineering: If you acquired the SOFTWARE in the
European Community, you may not reverse engineer, decompile,
or dissassemble the SOFTWARE except to the extent and for the
express purposes authorized by applicable law.

This Software License Agreement is governed by the laws
of England.

APPENDIX
WARRANTY AND SPECIAL PROVISIONS
FOR
CANADA

LIMITED WARRANTY

LIMITED WARRANTY. Manufacturer warrants that (a) the
SOFTWARE will perform substantially in accordance with the
accompanying written materials for a period of ninety (90)
days from the date of receipt, and (b) any Microsoft hardware
accompanying the SOFTWARE will be free from defects in
materials and workmanship under normal use and service for a
period of one (1) year from the date of receipt. Any implied
warranties or conditions on the SOFTWARE and Microsoft
hardware are limited to ninety (90) days and one (1) year,
respectively. Some states/jurisdictions do not allow
limitations on duration of an implied warranty, so the above
limitation may not apply to you.

CUSTOMER REMEDIES. Manufacturer's and its suppliers' entire
liability and your exclusive remedy shall be, at
Manufacturer's option, either (a) return of the price paid, or
(b) repair or replacement of the SOFTWARE or hardware that
does not meet this Limited Warranty and which is returned to
Manufacturer with a copy of your receipt. This Limited
Warranty is void if failure of the SOFTWARE or hardware has
resulted from accident, abuse, or misapplication. Any
replacement SOFTWARE or hardware will be warranted for the
remainder of the original warranty period or thirty (30) days,
whichever is longer.

NO OTHER WARRANTIES. To the maximum extent permitted by
applicable law, Manufacturer and its suppliers disclaim all
other warranties, either express or implied, including, but
not limited to implied warranties of merchantability and
fitness for a particular purpose, with regard to the SOFTWARE,
the accompanying written materials, and any accompanying
hardware. This limited warranty gives you specific legal
rights. You may have others which vary from state
/jurisdiction to state/jurisdiction.

NO LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES. To
the maximum extent permitted by applicable law, in no event
shall Manufacturer or its suppliers be liable for any damages
whatsoever (including without limitation, direct or indirect
damages for personal injury, loss of business profits,
business interruption, loss of business information, or any
other pecuniary loss) arising out of the use of or inability
to use this product, even if Manufacturer has been advised of
the possibility of such damages. In any case, Manufacturer's
and its suppliers' entire liability under any provision of
this agreement shall be limited to the amount actually paid by
you for the SOFTWARE and/or Microsoft hardware. Because some
states/jurisdictions do not allow the exclusion or limitation
of liability for consequential or incidental damages, the
above limitation may not apply to you.

This Software License Agreement is governed by the laws of the
Province of Ontario, Canada. Each of the parties hereto
irrevocably attorns to the jurisdiction of the courts of the
Province of Ontario and further agrees to commence any
litigation which may arise hereunder in the courts located in
the Judicial District of York, Province of Ontario.

ANNEXE

GARANTIE ET DISPOSITIONS PARTICULIÈRES
POUR LE CANADA

GARANTIE LIMITÉE

Si vous vous êtes procuré ce produit Microsoft(r) ou ce
matériel Microsoft(r) au CANADA, la garantie suivante
s'adresse à vous.

GARANTIE LIMITÉE. Le Fabricant garantit que (a) la
performance du LOGICIEL sera substantiellement en conformité
avec les documents écrits qui l'accompagnent pour une période
de quatre-vingt-dix (90) jours à compter de la date de
réception, et que (b) tout matériel de Microsoft fourni avec
le LOGICIEL sera exempt de défaut de matière première ou de
vice de fabrication dans des conditions normales d'utilisation
et d'entretien pour une période d'un (1) an à compter de la
date de réception. Toutes garanties ou conditions implicites
concernant le LOGICIEL et le matériel Microsoft sont limitées
à quatre-vingt-dix (90) jours et un (1) an, respectivement.

RECOURS DU CLIENT. La seule obligation du Fabricant et de
ses fournisseurs et votre recours exclusif seront, au choix du
Fabricant, soit (a) le remboursement du prix payé ou (b) la
réparation ou le remplacement du LOGICIEL ou du matériel qui
n'est pas conforme à la Garantie limitée et qui est retourné
au Fabricant avec une copie de votre reçu. Cette Garantie
limitée est nulle si la défectuosité du LOGICIEL ou du
matériel est causée par un accident, un traitement abusif ou
une mauvaise application. Tout LOGICIEL ou matériel de
remplacement sera garanti pour le reste de la période de
garantie initiale ou pour trente (30) jours, selon laquelle de
ces deux périodes est la plus longue.

EXCLUSION DE TOUTE AUTRE GARANTIE. Selon la
portée maximale autorisée par la loi applicable, le Fabricant
et ses fournisseurs renoncent à toutes autres garanties ou
conditions, expresses ou implicites, y compris mais ne se
limitant pas aux garanties implicites de la qualité marchande
ou un usage particulier en ce qui concerne le LOGICIEL, la
documentation écrite et tout matériel qui l'accompagnent.
Cette garantie limitée vous accorde des droits spécifiques
reconnus par la loi.

ABSENCE DE RESPONSABILITÉ POUR LES DOMMAGES
INDIRECTS. Selon la portée maximale autorisée par la loi
applicable, le Fabricant ou ses fournisseurs ne pourront être
tenus responsables en aucune circonstance de tous dommages
quels qu'ils soient (y compris mais non de façon limitative
les dommages directs ou indirects causés par des lésions
corporelles, la perte de bénéfices commerciaux, l'interruption
des affaires, la perte d'information commerciale ou toute
autre perte pécuniaire) découlant de l'utilisation ou de
l'impossibilité d'utilisation de ce produit, et ce même si le
Fabricant a été avisé de l'éventualité de tels dommages. En
tout état de cause, la seule responsabilité du Fabricant et de
ses fournisseurs en vertu de toute disposition de cette
Convention se limitera au montant que vous aurez effectivement
payé pour l'achat du LOGICIEL et/ou du matériel Microsoft.

La présente Convention de droits d'utilisation de logiciel est
régie par les lois de la province d'Ontario, Canada. Chacune
des parties aux présentes reconnaît irrévocablement la
compétence des tribunaux de la province d'Ontario et consent à
instituer tout litige qui pourrait découler des présentes
auprès des tribunaux situés dans le district judiciaire de
York, province d'Ontario.

APPENDIX
WARRANTY AND SPECIAL PROVISIONS
FOR
THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
AND ANY OTHER COUNTRY

LIMITED WARRANTY

LIMITED WARRANTY. Manufacturer warrants that (a) the
SOFTWARE will perform substantially in accordance with the
accompanying written materials for a period of ninety (90)
days from the date of receipt, and (b) any Microsoft hardware
accompanying the SOFTWARE will be free from defects in
materials and workmanship under normal use and service for a
period of one (1) year from the date of receipt. Any implied
warranties on the SOFTWARE and Microsoft hardware are limited
to ninety (90) days and one (1) year, respectively.
Some states/jurisdictions do not allow limitations on duration
of an implied warranty, so the above limitation may not apply to you.

CUSTOMER REMEDIES. Manufacturer's and its suppliers' entire
liability and your exclusive remedy shall be, at
Manufacturer's option, either (a) return of the price paid, or
(b) repair or replacement of the SOFTWARE or hardware that
does not meet this Limited Warranty and which is returned to
Manufacturer with a copy of your receipt. This Limited
Warranty is void if failure of the SOFTWARE or hardware has
resulted from accident, abuse, or misapplication. Any
replacement SOFTWARE or hardware will be warranted for the
remainder of the original warranty period or thirty (30) days,
whichever is longer.

NO OTHER WARRANTIES. To the maximum extent permitted by
applicable law, Manufacturer and its suppliers disclaim all
other warranties, either express or implied, including, but
not limited to implied warranties of merchantability and
fitness for a particular purpose, with regard to the SOFTWARE,
the accompanying written materials, and any accompanying
hardware. This limited warranty gives you specific legal
rights. You may have others which vary from state
/jurisdiction to state/jurisdiction.

NO LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES. To
the maximum extent permitted by applicable law, in no event
shall Manufacturer or its suppliers be liable for any damages
whatsoever (including without limitation, special, incidental,
consequential, or indirect damages for personal injury, loss
of business profits, business interruption, loss of business
information, or any other pecuniary loss) arising out of the
use of or inability to use this product, even if Manufacturer
has been advised of the possibility of such damages. In any
case, Manufacturer's and its suppliers' entire liability under
any provision of this agreement shall be limited to the amount
actually paid by you for the SOFTWARE and/or Microsoft
hardware. Because some states/jurisdictions do not allow the
exclusion or limitation of liability for consequential or
incidental damages, the above limitation may not apply to you.

SPECIAL PROVISIONS

U.S. GOVERNMENT LICENSE RIGHTS. All SOFTWARE
provided to the U.S. Government pursuant to solicitations
issued on or after December 1, 1995 is provided with the
commercial license rights and restrictions described in this
EULA. All SOFTWARE provided to the U.S. Government pursuant to
solicitations issued prior to December 1, 1995 is provided
with "Restricted Rights" as provided for in FAR, 48 CFR 52
..227-14 (JUNE 1987) or DFAR, 48 CFR 252.227-7013 (OCT 1988),
as applicable. Manufacturer is responsible for ensuring the
SOFTWARE is marked with the "Restricted Rights Notice" or
"Restricted Rights Legend," as required. All rights not
expressly granted are reserved.

If you acquired the SOFTWARE in the United States of America,
this Software License Agreement and Warranty are governed by
the laws of the State of Washington, U.S.A. If you acquired
the SOFTWARE outside the United States of America, local law
may apply.

EULAID:XPSP1_RM.1_PRO_OEM_EN

Use the standard browser, IE.

--=20
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.microscum.com/mscommunity/
"Alias" wrote in message =
...
=20
"Leythos" wrote in message=20
news
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:40:00 +0200, Opinicus wrote:

"Leythos" wrote

The EULA for OEM states the Motherboard.

Really? Where?

https://oem.microsoft.com/script/Con...ageid=3D552862
=20
That link doesn't work with Firefox. I get a pop up saying it isn't a=20
Microsoft signed web page.
--=20
Alias
=20
Use the Reply to Sender feature of your news reader program to email =
me.
Utiliza Responder al Remitente para mandarme un mail.=20
=20

I did and it wanted me to sign into NET Passport which I refuse to do just
to view a web page.
--
Alias

Use the Reply to Sender feature of your news reader program to email me.
Utiliza Responder al Remitente para mandarme un mail.

"David Candy" . wrote

Use the standard browser, IE.

--
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.microscum.com/mscommunity/
"Alias" wrote in message
...

"Leythos" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:40:00 +0200, Opinicus wrote:

"Leythos" wrote

The EULA for OEM states the Motherboard.

Really? Where?

https://oem.microsoft.com/script/Con...?pageid=552862

That link doesn't work with Firefox. I get a pop up saying it isn't a
Microsoft signed web page.
--
Alias

Use the Reply to Sender feature of your news reader program to email me.
Utiliza Responder al Remitente para mandarme un mail.

"Leythos" wrote

The EULA for OEM states the Motherboard.

Really? Where?

https://oem.microsoft.com/script/Con...?pageid=552862

This seems to be something that MS imposes on those who
register themselves as OEMs. You do not need such
registration to purchase and use an OEM version of Windows
and no EULA that comes packed with an OEM version of Windows
that I've ever seen contained such a rule tying the license
to the motherboard.

--
Bob
Kanyak's Doghouse
http://www.kanyak.com

Leythos wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:40:00 +0200, Opinicus wrote:

"Leythos" wrote

The EULA for OEM states the Motherboard.

Really? Where?

https://oem.microsoft.com/script/Con...?pageid=552862

Password protected from the average End User! That is the MS certified
Systems Builders site!

And that is not the EULA moron! It is a web page!

The END USER LICENSING AGREEMENT or EULA that the End User accepts does
NOT say ANYTHING about a Motherboard at all!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

Not knowing or caring what you idiots are babbling about, I offer this =
as you are so stupid.

If you buy an OEM version of windows you buy a license from the OEM not =
Microsoft. Apart from legislative things (mfg's responsibilities) there =
is a contract between the OEM and the user, Microsoft is not involved at =
all (as third parties can't be involved in contracts).

Therefore your comments are worthless and are stupid. The OEM doesn't =
have a right to sell anything to you unless they copmply with their =
license.

--=20
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.microscum.com/mscommunity/
"Opinicus" wrote in message =
...
"Leythos" wrote
=20
The EULA for OEM states the Motherboard.
=20
Really? Where?
=20
https://oem.microsoft.com/script/Con...ageid=3D552862
=20
This seems to be something that MS imposes on those who=20
register themselves as OEMs. You do not need such=20
registration to purchase and use an OEM version of Windows=20
and no EULA that comes packed with an OEM version of Windows=20
that I've ever seen contained such a rule tying the license=20
to the motherboard.
=20
--=20
Bob
Kanyak's Doghouse
http://www.kanyak.com

Leythos wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:50:18 +0100, Alias wrote:


"Leythos" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 07:55:04 -0500, mrpsychology wrote:

Think holistically. In psychology you cannot take a piece from the
whole.
A computer i would agree with and think motherboard is fair,
however, there
are many things that make the computer work, so tkaing a piece
from the whole and counting as the whole is not correct.

You needed to stop right there - no one is saying that anyone is
"TAKING" a piece, it's replacing a piece with a new/different one.
You can change the CPU to a faster one, increase the RAM, increase
the PSU size, change the color of the case, dance on one leg while
chanting the EULA, buy only changing the motherboard makes it a
different system.

No, like I said before, it makes it a different motherboard. MS
agrees with me. You, therefore, are -- gasp! -- wrong. Unlike you,
MS feels one can update a computer, including the MB, with a generic
OEM installation. I've

Read the Quote from MS below this paragraph, you'll see that MS does
not agree with you. There IS a significant difference between OEM
license and RETAIL license, you might want to read them both.

changed motherboards with no problems with activation. Others have
too. Why are you spreading this misinformation? Activation was not
created with upgrading or replacing defective parts in mind. It was
created with the idea that one should not install the same OS on two
or more computers, yaknow, "casual copying". The 120 days trip was
so people could update, a recognition that in today's computer
world, upgrading is a very common thing.


Alias - how would you interpret what is quoted from MS below?

"Generally, you may upgrade or replace all of the hardware
components on your customer's computer and the end user may maintain
the license for the original Microsoft® OEM operating system
software, with the exception of an upgrade or replacement of the
motherboard.

An upgrade of the motherboard is considered to result in a "new
personal computer" to which Microsoft® OEM operating system software
cannot be transferred from another computer. If the motherboard is
upgraded or replaced, for reasons other than a defect, then a new
computer has been created and the license of new operating system
software is required.

If the motherboard is replaced because it is defective, you do NOT
need to acquire a new operating system license for the PC."

It seems clear to me that MS understands that the Motherboard makes
the computer a computer. You are entitled to replace a defective
motherboard and maintain your license, but you are not entitled to
UPGRADE your motherboard and maintain your license.

Wrong, it is clear that is what the are saying to MS certified OEM
System Builders, but the END USER is under no such obligation if they
aren't MS certified OEM System Builders, and only accept the EULA that
is on the OEM CD.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

Alias wrote:
"Leythos" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:08:25 +0100, Alias wrote:


"Leythos" wrote in message
news On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:40:00 +0200, Opinicus wrote:

"Leythos" wrote

The EULA for OEM states the Motherboard.

Really? Where?

https://oem.microsoft.com/script/Con...?pageid=552862

To get in with IE, one needs to sign into Net Passport. F!ck that
sh!t ...
got an url that doesn't require "activation"???

Works fine in FireFox and Linux from here. No Activation needed. You
do need a passport, but that has nothing to do with needing IE or
Windows, as I'm using a Linux box to view it.

I don't want MS' passport. Got an url that doesn't require
"activation".

Since I posted what was shown in the document you could just trust
that I didn't make it up :-)

I just read mine. It's in English. No motherboard is mentioned. It
does say it has to be bought with hardware but, as we know, that
doesn't apply in Spain. The only thing defining a computer is this:

"The term "COMPUTER" as used herein shall mean the HARDWARE, if
the HARDWARE is a single computer system, or shall mean the
computer system with which the HARDWARE operates, if the
HARDWARE is a computer system component."

And mentions nothing about that the computer is the motherboard!


Here's the complete EULA:

snipped EULA

Not one mention of the word "motherboard" nor anything about at what
point upgrading a computer makes it into a new computer!

So Liethos's statement "The EULA for OEM states the Motherboard" is
nothing but an outright lie!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

Leythos wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 15:58:49 +0100, Alias wrote:


"Leythos" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:50:18 +0100, Alias wrote:


"Leythos" wrote in message
news On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 07:55:04 -0500, mrpsychology wrote:

Think holistically. In psychology you cannot take a piece from
the whole.
A computer i would agree with and think motherboard is fair,
however, there
are many things that make the computer work, so tkaing a piece
from the whole and counting as the whole is not correct.

You needed to stop right there - no one is saying that anyone is
"TAKING"
a piece, it's replacing a piece with a new/different one. You can
change the CPU to a faster one, increase the RAM, increase the
PSU size, change the color of the case, dance on one leg while
chanting the EULA, buy only
changing the motherboard makes it a different system.

No, like I said before, it makes it a different motherboard. MS
agrees with
me. You, therefore, are -- gasp! -- wrong. Unlike you, MS feels
one can update a computer, including the MB, with a generic OEM
installation. I've

Read the Quote from MS below this paragraph, you'll see that MS
does not agree with you. There IS a significant difference between
OEM license and RETAIL license, you might want to read them both.

changed motherboards with no problems with activation. Others have
too. Why
are you spreading this misinformation? Activation was not created
with upgrading or replacing defective parts in mind. It was
created with the idea
that one should not install the same OS on two or more computers,
yaknow, "casual copying". The 120 days trip was so people could
update, a recognition that in today's computer world, upgrading is
a very common thing.


Alias - how would you interpret what is quoted from MS below?

"Generally, you may upgrade or replace all of the hardware
components on your customer's computer and the end user may
maintain the license for the
original Microsoft® OEM operating system software, with the
exception of an
upgrade or replacement of the motherboard.

An upgrade of the motherboard is considered to result in a "new
personal computer" to which Microsoft® OEM operating system
software cannot be transferred from another computer. If the
motherboard is upgraded or replaced, for reasons other than a
defect, then a new computer has been created and the license of
new operating system software is required.

If the motherboard is replaced because it is defective, you do NOT
need to
acquire a new operating system license for the PC."

It seems clear to me that MS understands that the Motherboard makes
the computer a computer. You are entitled to replace a defective
motherboard and maintain your license, but you are not entitled to
UPGRADE your motherboard and maintain your license.


Not what my EULA says ... and, I have done it and it was activated.
Have you?

I've already stated that I used a key more than once, that it was
kicked out because of it, and that when I called MS to phone activate
it that they processed the activation without a problem.

Maybe you could post a link to your Spanish EULA?

I think we've already established that there are different Laws and
Agreements for different countries.

Not even the US EULA says anything about the motherboard!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

"kurttrail" wrote in message
...
Alias wrote:
"Leythos" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:08:25 +0100, Alias wrote:


"Leythos" wrote in message
news On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:40:00 +0200, Opinicus wrote:

"Leythos" wrote

The EULA for OEM states the Motherboard.

Really? Where?

https://oem.microsoft.com/script/Con...?pageid=552862

To get in with IE, one needs to sign into Net Passport. F!ck that
sh!t ...
got an url that doesn't require "activation"???

Works fine in FireFox and Linux from here. No Activation needed. You
do need a passport, but that has nothing to do with needing IE or
Windows, as I'm using a Linux box to view it.

I don't want MS' passport. Got an url that doesn't require
"activation".

Since I posted what was shown in the document you could just trust
that I didn't make it up :-)

I just read mine. It's in English. No motherboard is mentioned. It
does say it has to be bought with hardware but, as we know, that
doesn't apply in Spain. The only thing defining a computer is this:

"The term "COMPUTER" as used herein shall mean the HARDWARE, if
the HARDWARE is a single computer system, or shall mean the
computer system with which the HARDWARE operates, if the
HARDWARE is a computer system component."

And mentions nothing about that the computer is the motherboard!


Here's the complete EULA:

snipped EULA

Not one mention of the word "motherboard" nor anything about at what point
upgrading a computer makes it into a new computer!

So Liethos's statement "The EULA for OEM states the Motherboard" is
nothing but an outright lie!

--
Peace!
Kurt

Yep, a lie. Wonder why he lies about that. Why would he want to spew
misinformation to make people think they can't update their computer,
including the motherboard? Not very nice, if you ask me.
--
Alias

Use the Reply to Sender feature of your news reader program to email me.
Utiliza Responder al Remitente para mandarme un mail.

"Leythos" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 17:44:08 +0200, Opinicus wrote:

"Leythos" wrote

The EULA for OEM states the Motherboard.

Really? Where?

https://oem.microsoft.com/script/Con...?pageid=552862

This seems to be something that MS imposes on those who
register themselves as OEMs. You do not need such
registration to purchase and use an OEM version of Windows
and no EULA that comes packed with an OEM version of Windows
that I've ever seen contained such a rule tying the license
to the motherboard.

In order to buy OEM you have to buy from an OEM or directly from MS OEM
program. The home user can not walk into BestBuy and purchase an OEM copy
of Windows XP Professional off the shelf, but, if they buy from a licensed
MS OEM / system builder the agreement passes through to the end-user.

Every computer store in Spain sells OEMs without hardware. So, you mean, one
can't do that in JesusLand.
--
Alias

Use the Reply to Sender feature of your news reader program to email me.
Utiliza Responder al Remitente para mandarme un mail.

Alias wrote:
"Leythos" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 17:44:08 +0200, Opinicus wrote:

"Leythos" wrote

The EULA for OEM states the Motherboard.

Really? Where?

https://oem.microsoft.com/script/Con...?pageid=552862

This seems to be something that MS imposes on those who
register themselves as OEMs. You do not need such
registration to purchase and use an OEM version of Windows
and no EULA that comes packed with an OEM version of Windows
that I've ever seen contained such a rule tying the license
to the motherboard.

In order to buy OEM you have to buy from an OEM or directly from MS
OEM program. The home user can not walk into BestBuy and purchase an
OEM copy of Windows XP Professional off the shelf, but, if they buy
from a licensed MS OEM / system builder the agreement passes through
to the end-user.

Every computer store in Spain sells OEMs without hardware. So, you
mean, one can't do that in JesusLand.

LOL! A lot of the web venders that sell OEM XP aren't LICENCED MS OEM
System Builders, including the one's here in JesusLand!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"