OEM versus Upgrade

"Leythos" wrote

I do not seek to become a MVP of any type.

Wow, I would have thought otherwise. So, in reality, you've never bought any
software and have one machine across the room that uses eMule to download
them all and all this EULA sh*t is just a cover?
--
Alias

Use the Reply to Sender feature of your news reader program to email me.
Utiliza Responder al Remitente para mandarme un mail.

Well, on one computer i know that is a oem the upgrade changed the pid and
Everest Home Edition states it is a retail.
"Bob I" wrote in message
...
In that case I believe you need to view the "upgrade" not as "retail" but
determined by qualifing software. The two items "become" one and if the
"qualifing software" is OEM, it leaves with the outgoing computer and thus
the "upgrade" goes too.

mrpsychology wrote:

Now, a question, what about a retail upgrade version? Does the retail
upgrade turn it into a retail?
"Alias" wrote in message
...

"Leythos" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:50:18 +0100, Alias wrote:


"Leythos" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 07:55:04 -0500, mrpsychology wrote:


Think holistically. In psychology you cannot take a piece from the
whole.
A computer i would agree with and think motherboard is fair, however,
there
are many things that make the computer work, so tkaing a piece from
the
whole and counting as the whole is not correct.

You needed to stop right there - no one is saying that anyone is
"TAKING"
a piece, it's replacing a piece with a new/different one. You can
change
the CPU to a faster one, increase the RAM, increase the PSU size,
change
the color of the case, dance on one leg while chanting the EULA, buy
only
changing the motherboard makes it a different system.

No, like I said before, it makes it a different motherboard. MS agrees
with
me. You, therefore, are -- gasp! -- wrong. Unlike you, MS feels one can
update a computer, including the MB, with a generic OEM installation.
I've

Read the Quote from MS below this paragraph, you'll see that MS does not
agree with you. There IS a significant difference between OEM license
and
RETAIL license, you might want to read them both.


changed motherboards with no problems with activation. Others have too.
Why
are you spreading this misinformation? Activation was not created with
upgrading or replacing defective parts in mind. It was created with the
idea
that one should not install the same OS on two or more computers,
yaknow,
"casual copying". The 120 days trip was so people could update, a
recognition that in today's computer world, upgrading is a very common
thing.


Alias - how would you interpret what is quoted from MS below?


"Generally, you may upgrade or replace all of the hardware components
on
your customer's computer and the end user may maintain the license for
the
original Microsoft® OEM operating system software, with the exception
of an
upgrade or replacement of the motherboard.

An upgrade of the motherboard is considered to result in a "new
personal
computer" to which Microsoft® OEM operating system software cannot be
transferred from another computer. If the motherboard is upgraded or
replaced, for reasons other than a defect, then a new computer has been
created and the license of new operating system software is required.

If the motherboard is replaced because it is defective, you do NOT need
to
acquire a new operating system license for the PC."

It seems clear to me that MS understands that the Motherboard makes the
computer a computer. You are entitled to replace a defective motherboard
and maintain your license, but you are not entitled to UPGRADE your
motherboard and maintain your license.


Not what my EULA says ... and, I have done it and it was activated. Have
you?
--
Alias

Use the Reply to Sender feature of your news reader program to email me.
Utiliza Responder al Remitente para mandarme un mail.

lots of laughs.
"Steve N." wrote in message
...
kurttrail wrote:

mrpsychology wrote:

Windows operates a computer and that is why they liscence it for one
computer right?


Does a computer in the woods with Windows installed make a sound?


Maybe not, but one chucked out a second story window onto a concrete
sidewalk sure does!

Steve

Leythos wrote:
On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 01:23:56 +0100, Alias wrote:


"Leythos" wrote

I do not seek to become a MVP of any type.

Wow, I would have thought otherwise. So, in reality, you've never
bought any software and have one machine across the room that uses
eMule to download them all and all this EULA sh*t is just a cover?

What has that got to do with the topic?

You blew off the topic long ago with your Bullsh*t about MS Certified
System Builder rules!

I have more than a dozen computers in my home alone, all running
Windows OS's except for this machine running Fedora Core 3.

Notice how the blowhard always has to brag about all his computers and
all the computers he maintains at work? What the hell does that have to
do with the effin' topic?!

All of
the computers are fully licensed and in fact I even have unused
licenses available.

So effin' what! Are you done patting yourself on the back, Liethos?

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

That is immaterial. The OEM is part of the original computer, the
"Upgrade" is nothing without the OEM license. Therefor you can't "move"
the upgrade to a new computer without a getting a new license, as the
"old" OEM can't be moved/reused.

mrpsychology wrote:

Well, on one computer i know that is a oem the upgrade changed the pid and
Everest Home Edition states it is a retail.
"Bob I" wrote in message
...

In that case I believe you need to view the "upgrade" not as "retail" but
determined by qualifing software. The two items "become" one and if the
"qualifing software" is OEM, it leaves with the outgoing computer and thus
the "upgrade" goes too.

mrpsychology wrote:


Now, a question, what about a retail upgrade version? Does the retail
upgrade turn it into a retail?
"Alias" wrote in message
...


"Leythos" wrote in message
news

On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:50:18 +0100, Alias wrote:



"Leythos" wrote in message
newsan.2005.02.16.13.19.35.408839@nowhere. lan...


On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 07:55:04 -0500, mrpsychology wrote:



Think holistically. In psychology you cannot take a piece from the
whole.
A computer i would agree with and think motherboard is fair, however,
there
are many things that make the computer work, so tkaing a piece from
the
whole and counting as the whole is not correct.


You needed to stop right there - no one is saying that anyone is
"TAKING"
a piece, it's replacing a piece with a new/different one. You can
change
the CPU to a faster one, increase the RAM, increase the PSU size,
change
the color of the case, dance on one leg while chanting the EULA, buy
only
changing the motherboard makes it a different system.


No, like I said before, it makes it a different motherboard. MS agrees
with
me. You, therefore, are -- gasp! -- wrong. Unlike you, MS feels one can
update a computer, including the MB, with a generic OEM installation.
I've


Read the Quote from MS below this paragraph, you'll see that MS does not
agree with you. There IS a significant difference between OEM license
and
RETAIL license, you might want to read them both.



changed motherboards with no problems with activation. Others have too.
Why
are you spreading this misinformation? Activation was not created with
upgrading or replacing defective parts in mind. It was created with the
idea
that one should not install the same OS on two or more computers,
yaknow,
"casual copying". The 120 days trip was so people could update, a
recognition that in today's computer world, upgrading is a very common
thing.


Alias - how would you interpret what is quoted from MS below?



"Generally, you may upgrade or replace all of the hardware components
on
your customer's computer and the end user may maintain the license for
the
original Microsoft® OEM operating system software, with the exception
of an
upgrade or replacement of the motherboard.

An upgrade of the motherboard is considered to result in a "new
personal
computer" to which Microsoft® OEM operating system software cannot be
transferred from another computer. If the motherboard is upgraded or
replaced, for reasons other than a defect, then a new computer has been
created and the license of new operating system software is required.

If the motherboard is replaced because it is defective, you do NOT need
to
acquire a new operating system license for the PC."


It seems clear to me that MS understands that the Motherboard makes the
computer a computer. You are entitled to replace a defective motherboard
and maintain your license, but you are not entitled to UPGRADE your
motherboard and maintain your license.



Not what my EULA says ... and, I have done it and it was activated. Have
you?
--
Alias

Use the Reply to Sender feature of your news reader program to email me.
Utiliza Responder al Remitente para mandarme un mail.

"Bob I" wrote

That is immaterial. The OEM is part of the original computer, the
"Upgrade" is nothing without the OEM license. Therefor you can't "move"
the upgrade to a new computer without a getting a new license, as the
"old" OEM can't be moved/reused.

Yes, it "can". MS doesn't want you to do it. But if you wait 120 days, you
can install it on any machine that can handle XP.
--
Alias

Use the Reply to Sender feature of your news reader program to email me.
Utiliza Responder al Remitente para mandarme un mail.

mrpsychology wrote:

Well, on one computer i know that is a oem the upgrade changed the pid
and Everest Home Edition states it is a retail.
"Bob I" wrote in message
...

In that case I believe you need to view the "upgrade" not as "retail" but
determined by qualifing software. The two items "become" one and if the
"qualifing software" is OEM, it leaves with the outgoing computer and
thus the "upgrade" goes too.

mrpsychology wrote:


Now, a question, what about a retail upgrade version? Does the retail
upgrade turn it into a retail?
"Alias" wrote in message
...


"Leythos" wrote in message
news

On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:50:18 +0100, Alias wrote:



"Leythos" wrote in message
newsan.2005.02.16.13.19.35.408839@nowhere .lan...


On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 07:55:04 -0500, mrpsychology wrote:



Think holistically. In psychology you cannot take a piece from the
whole.
A computer i would agree with and think motherboard is fair,
however,
there
are many things that make the computer work, so tkaing a piece from
the
whole and counting as the whole is not correct.


You needed to stop right there - no one is saying that anyone is
"TAKING"
a piece, it's replacing a piece with a new/different one. You can
change
the CPU to a faster one, increase the RAM, increase the PSU size,
change
the color of the case, dance on one leg while chanting the EULA, buy
only
changing the motherboard makes it a different system.


No, like I said before, it makes it a different motherboard. MS
agrees with
me. You, therefore, are -- gasp! -- wrong. Unlike you, MS feels one
can
update a computer, including the MB, with a generic OEM installation.
I've


Read the Quote from MS below this paragraph, you'll see that MS does
not
agree with you. There IS a significant difference between OEM license
and
RETAIL license, you might want to read them both.



changed motherboards with no problems with activation. Others have
too. Why
are you spreading this misinformation? Activation was not created
with
upgrading or replacing defective parts in mind. It was created with
the idea
that one should not install the same OS on two or more computers,
yaknow,
"casual copying". The 120 days trip was so people could update, a
recognition that in today's computer world, upgrading is a very
common
thing.


Alias - how would you interpret what is quoted from MS below?



"Generally, you may upgrade or replace all of the hardware components
on
your customer's computer and the end user may maintain the license
for the
original Microsoft® OEM operating system software, with the exception
of an
upgrade or replacement of the motherboard.

An upgrade of the motherboard is considered to result in a "new
personal
computer" to which Microsoft® OEM operating system software cannot be
transferred from another computer. If the motherboard is upgraded or
replaced, for reasons other than a defect, then a new computer has
been
created and the license of new operating system software is required.

If the motherboard is replaced because it is defective, you do NOT
need to
acquire a new operating system license for the PC."


It seems clear to me that MS understands that the Motherboard makes
the
computer a computer. You are entitled to replace a defective
motherboard
and maintain your license, but you are not entitled to UPGRADE your
motherboard and maintain your license.



Not what my EULA says ... and, I have done it and it was activated.
Have you?
--
Alias

Use the Reply to Sender feature of your news reader program to email
me.
Utiliza Responder al Remitente para mandarme un mail.

Bob I wrote:
That is immaterial. The OEM is part of the original computer, the
"Upgrade" is nothing without the OEM license. Therefor you can't
"move" the upgrade to a new computer without a getting a new license,
as the "old" OEM can't be moved/reused.

MS CLAIMS "you *CAN'T* 'move' the upgrade to a new computer." In
reality you *CAN*, and there is nothing to stop you from doing it.

MS's CLAIMS have no basis in the reality of what *CAN* actually be done.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

Alias wrote:
"Bob I" wrote

That is immaterial. The OEM is part of the original computer, the
"Upgrade" is nothing without the OEM license. Therefor you can't
"move" the upgrade to a new computer without a getting a new
license, as the "old" OEM can't be moved/reused.

Yes, it "can". MS doesn't want you to do it. But if you wait 120
days, you can install it on any machine that can handle XP.

And even under 120 days, all you have to do is phone up to get
activated.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

Leythos wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:40:29 -0800, Steve N. wrote:

I don't care who you are, that's just d@mned stupid, it'll never hold up
in court, no one in their right mind is gonna agree with you, and
frankly, I think you've crossed over some sanity line in your ferver to
be the next MVP nominee or something. You need to get a grip buddy.
Seriously.


To be quite honest I don't care what you think,

Obviously you do or you wouldn't respond.

I just reported what the
documents state.

No, you didn't "just" do anything of the sort. I'm not going to repeat
myself, you'll just evade the points again.

I don't really care about about your opinions

Again, obviously you do or you wouldn't respond. Just ignore them like
you do to the rest of what I (and others) have responded with.

and I do
not seek to become a MVP of any type.


You probably wouldn't get it anyway.

Steve

Imagine what happens with overclockers? Because windows will see the
processor as a higher end processor when overclocked. Back when, i had my
3000+ xp windows viewed it as a 3200+ and it changed as it went up. Unlike
my current one, my 3200+ winchester is running smoothly at 2.41ghz and a pr
rating of 3818!!! it is too bad thta windows this time doesnt see it as a
different cpu! that is the good thing about oem cpus you can get what you
want out of it because it has no warranty.
"kurttrail" wrote in message
...
Bob I wrote:
That is immaterial. The OEM is part of the original computer, the
"Upgrade" is nothing without the OEM license. Therefor you can't
"move" the upgrade to a new computer without a getting a new license,
as the "old" OEM can't be moved/reused.

MS CLAIMS "you *CAN'T* 'move' the upgrade to a new computer." In reality
you *CAN*, and there is nothing to stop you from doing it.

MS's CLAIMS have no basis in the reality of what *CAN* actually be done.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

While I do not wish to get involved in this enlightening discussion, I would
like to weigh in with a few facts (whether you agree of disagree with them...)

1. As of this moment, a System Builder or OEM is only supposed to sell OEM
software with an approved non-peripheral device.
2. The System Builder selling the OEM software is supposed to provide the
end-customer with a copy of the SB Licensing Agreement and keep proof that
they have accepted its limitations.
3. OEM software from one country cannot be legally sold into another
country, no matter what the on-line sites are saying
4. All the information you ever wanted to know about System Builder
licensing can be found at http://oem.microsoft.com/licensing_ap_main, though
you need to go through the free registration into the OEM/System Builder
program first.

Now, I fully realize that there are many companies who feel that making
money is more important than following the laws. I know that there are many
who either buy or sell improperly. However, it is still wrong.
"Steve N." wrote:

Leythos wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:40:29 -0800, Steve N. wrote:

I don't care who you are, that's just d@mned stupid, it'll never hold up
in court, no one in their right mind is gonna agree with you, and
frankly, I think you've crossed over some sanity line in your ferver to
be the next MVP nominee or something. You need to get a grip buddy.
Seriously.


To be quite honest I don't care what you think,

Obviously you do or you wouldn't respond.

I just reported what the
documents state.

No, you didn't "just" do anything of the sort. I'm not going to repeat
myself, you'll just evade the points again.

I don't really care about about your opinions

Again, obviously you do or you wouldn't respond. Just ignore them like
you do to the rest of what I (and others) have responded with.

and I do
not seek to become a MVP of any type.


You probably wouldn't get it anyway.

Steve

Some of us feel that it is more important to obey the spirit of the law,
especially when the "law" has so many letters.

"Steve Winfield [MSFT]" wrote in message
...
While I do not wish to get involved in this enlightening discussion, I
would
like to weigh in with a few facts (whether you agree of disagree with
them...)

1. As of this moment, a System Builder or OEM is only supposed to sell
OEM
software with an approved non-peripheral device.
2. The System Builder selling the OEM software is supposed to provide the
end-customer with a copy of the SB Licensing Agreement and keep proof that
they have accepted its limitations.
3. OEM software from one country cannot be legally sold into another
country, no matter what the on-line sites are saying
4. All the information you ever wanted to know about System Builder
licensing can be found at http://oem.microsoft.com/licensing_ap_main,
though
you need to go through the free registration into the OEM/System Builder
program first.

Now, I fully realize that there are many companies who feel that making
money is more important than following the laws. I know that there are
many
who either buy or sell improperly. However, it is still wrong.
"Steve N." wrote:

Leythos wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:40:29 -0800, Steve N. wrote:

I don't care who you are, that's just d@mned stupid, it'll never hold
up
in court, no one in their right mind is gonna agree with you, and
frankly, I think you've crossed over some sanity line in your ferver
to
be the next MVP nominee or something. You need to get a grip buddy.
Seriously.


To be quite honest I don't care what you think,

Obviously you do or you wouldn't respond.

I just reported what the
documents state.

No, you didn't "just" do anything of the sort. I'm not going to repeat
myself, you'll just evade the points again.

I don't really care about about your opinions

Again, obviously you do or you wouldn't respond. Just ignore them like
you do to the rest of what I (and others) have responded with.

and I do
not seek to become a MVP of any type.


You probably wouldn't get it anyway.

Steve

Steve Winfield [MSFT] wrote:
While I do not wish to get involved in this enlightening discussion,
I would like to weigh in with a few facts (whether you agree of
disagree with them...)

1. As of this moment, a System Builder or OEM is only supposed to
sell OEM software with an approved non-peripheral device.
2. The System Builder selling the OEM software is supposed to
provide the end-customer with a copy of the SB Licensing Agreement
and keep proof that they have accepted its limitations.
3. OEM software from one country cannot be legally sold into another
country, no matter what the on-line sites are saying
4. All the information you ever wanted to know about System Builder
licensing can be found at http://oem.microsoft.com/licensing_ap_main,
though you need to go through the free registration into the
OEM/System Builder program first.

Now, I fully realize that there are many companies who feel that
making
money is more important than following the laws. I know that there
are many who either buy or sell improperly. However, it is still
wrong.

No. It's is your unsubstantiated claim that it is wrong. Only through
the courts can you and your companies claims be substantiated under the
law.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"