OEM versus Upgrade

"Carl G" cgerving@ecenetDOTcom wrote in message
...

We wnt to build a total new pc

Don't say "total new pc". Think of it as an "ongoing
upgrade" and you're in the clear for whatever it is you want
to do.

--
Bob
Kanyak's Doghouse
http://www.kanyak.com

kurttrail wrote:
BBUNNY wrote:
Leythos wrote:
On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 01:51:19 +0100, Alias wrote:

"Leythos" wrote in message
news On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 00:07:30 +0200, Opinicus wrote:

"Leythos" wrote

OEM installs are "licensed" to the first computer they are
installed on,
there is no moving the "License" to another computer according
to the OEM
license.
same computer, only upgraded or repaired.

That's why I said OPINION and not fact.

So, how about lending us your opinion on what you have to change to
make it a different computer?

--

remove 999 in order to email me

Buy a Dell, then a Hewlett Packard, then an Emachine with XP OEM
installed on
all three....Then you have 3 different Computers. Changing any one
item or numerous
items does not constitute a _new_ computer.....Period......I paid for
a full OEM
version of XP and I am entitled to use the version.....period.....The
OEM version
that I purchased is not the same _discounted crippled_ version that is
preinstall
on a Dell dude.

Actually, a Dell CD can be easily modified so that it works just like a
generic OEM CD.

Probably so, but the point is that there are some monopoly issues here.
How can Dell sell a PC for US$399 with a $100 operating system installed????
I would have a hard time building a PC buying used parts from garage sales
and only counting the price of the parts used. This is a matter of Slick
Willie
saying let's F&^%$ Joe Sixpack and give our rich relative (OEM CORP)
all the finacial breaks. This whole deal with the EULA has a far greater
impact
then meets the eye of the casual user. From what I read the Europeans and
Asians are not falling for it.

Leythos wrote:
On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 21:20:10 +0200, Opinicus wrote:

"Leythos" wrote

Take a guess at it like I did. I don't want to get into
the wrong/right
part of this discussion, just the part about what makes a
computer a
computer.

This is quite an epistemological question, especially for a
microsoft.public newsgroup.

"What makes a cheese a Parmesan?" or "What makes a brandy a
Cognac?" Those are easy questions to answer. How about:
"What makes a human being a human being?" Rather less easy.

"What makes a computer a computer" is maybe not quite as
tough as that but it's right up there.

Not as hard as you might think - what's the one thing that ties all the
"Parts" together? The motherboard. Change the motherboard and you can
change anything with it, change the CPU and you may have to change
motherboards, same with RAM.

According to your logic, the case/enclosure is what holds it together.
Even the on/off button.

Leythos wrote:
On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 15:13:44 -0500, BBUNNY wrote:

Leythos wrote:
On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 21:20:10 +0200, Opinicus wrote:

"Leythos" wrote

Take a guess at it like I did. I don't want to get into
the wrong/right
part of this discussion, just the part about what makes a
computer a
computer.

This is quite an epistemological question, especially for a
microsoft.public newsgroup.

"What makes a cheese a Parmesan?" or "What makes a brandy a
Cognac?" Those are easy questions to answer. How about:
"What makes a human being a human being?" Rather less easy.

"What makes a computer a computer" is maybe not quite as
tough as that but it's right up there.

Not as hard as you might think - what's the one thing that ties
all the "Parts" together? The motherboard. Change the motherboard
and you can change anything with it, change the CPU and you may
have to change motherboards, same with RAM.

According to your logic, the case/enclosure is what holds it
together. Even the on/off button.

Not so, you can (and I have) tested computers without the
Case/Enclosure. Apply a little logic here if you will.

That right! You are the thing that ties the computer together, The End
User!

What good is a computer without the human operator.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

Imagine if a computer was everything that is in the tower.
"Opinicus" wrote in message
...
"Leythos" wrote

Take a guess at it like I did. I don't want to get into the wrong/right
part of this discussion, just the part about what makes a computer a
computer.

This is quite an epistemological question, especially for a
microsoft.public newsgroup.

"What makes a cheese a Parmesan?" or "What makes a brandy a Cognac?" Those
are easy questions to answer. How about: "What makes a human being a human
being?" Rather less easy.

"What makes a computer a computer" is maybe not quite as tough as that but
it's right up there.

--
Bob
Kanyak's Doghouse
http://www.kanyak.com

This whole EULA reads just like a (do not remove this tag)
on a mattress. I am going to do what I do in the privacy of
my home.....period.....


LOL! But removing the tag, boy you live dangerously! I here the MIAA,
will break your knee caps for that! ;_)

I've always been hesitant about removing mattress tags. But as for
Microsoft's EULA ... pffffft!

It even has a little icon on the upper left hand side of the monitor that
says "My Computer". It doesn't say "Microsoft's computer that I am licensed
to use" or "My Licence", now does it?

Wait.

I do have to retract some of what i stated about microsoft. I just read
something on znet news and Gates stated windows users will have free use of
their antispyware. So my conspiracy theorizing about the spy and virus
writing is only now half way. Actually the microsfot antispyware is pretty
good.
"Carl G" cgerving@ecenetDOTcom wrote in message
...
Thanks for all the info guys

--
Carl G
"Carl G" cgerving@ecenetDOTcom wrote in message
...
Hi guys
If i buy a microsoft OEM version of XP Home ,can i transfer it from one
pc to another like i would be able to do with a upgrade copy.
I want to install xp on my daughters pc now but in the near future she
wants to build a new pc.
So can we transfer the oem copy to the new home built pc.She has home
built pc now,wants a bigger one.
Thanks

--
Carl G

Leythos wrote:


While you may not like it, if you buy a Dell or HP or EMACHINE OEM XP
installed, if you change the motherboard to a non-Dell (or other than
the
same vendors board) motherboard it makes the system a non-Dell system
and
as such the OEM software sold with the Dell system is not really
valid any
longer. Since many of the OEM installs and restore CD sets are tied
to the
BIOS, even something as simple as flashing with a non-branded BIOS
can
invalidate the OEM license - what you have to do is determine if the
system still meets the vendors Warranty requirement (not necessarily
being
under warranty, but if it was new with the hardware you have in it
currently, would it be covered under warranty). As an example, if you
bought a NEW Dell today, and in 30 days changed out the motherboard
for an
ASUS XYZ board, you would no longer quality for support/warranty
under the
OEM's contract, so that would technically invalidate your OEM
installation
of the software. Now, if you got a Full Licensed copy of XP, then it
doesn't matter at all.

The OEM version IS the same as the BIOS locked version - the
difference is
that the BIOS locked version has a boot loader on the CD that won't
let
you extract XP unless it finds the vendors BIOS on the machine in
question
- it's still the same XP.


--


This is a really good discussion and one for the legalese books. Bravo!

I find myself in the predicament Lythos has hinted to in this
discussion. I have an Emachines with an OEM Windows XP Restore CD. I
recently have been in the process of upgrading the hard drive, drivers,
RAM, etc., all of which have given me no significant problems. However,
when I was in the process of upgrading my Motherboard's BIOS Windows XP
screamed at me first chance it had to reactivate. This only hints at
future trouble when I try to reinstall Windows XP with the
manufacturers OEM CD if what Leythos has stated here is true. All due
to a BIOS update that was necessary as it provided fixes for my
currently installed processor as well as some other known issues. It is
virtually the same piece of hardware, only updated. Doesn't seem fair
to me.

To summarize I find myself disliking the EULA , Microsoft's OEM, and
OEM PC manufacturers more and more. The way I see it, you still paid
good money for the system and there should be no way in the world that
they should be allowed to give a consumer a crippled OS package. My
theory is if you stop buying it, maybe they'll change their tunes. Or
perhaps switch to an alternate OS entirely.

My 2 cents.

Tony

Normally updating the BIOS is not a problem as long as you use a BIOS from
the OEM.
As long as you stay with the same motherboard and correct BIOS source, there
will be no problem unless you consider a 5 minute call to activate a
problem.
And the call may not be necessary.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


wrote in message
oups.com...

Leythos wrote:


While you may not like it, if you buy a Dell or HP or EMACHINE OEM XP
installed, if you change the motherboard to a non-Dell (or other than
the
same vendors board) motherboard it makes the system a non-Dell system
and
as such the OEM software sold with the Dell system is not really
valid any
longer. Since many of the OEM installs and restore CD sets are tied
to the
BIOS, even something as simple as flashing with a non-branded BIOS
can
invalidate the OEM license - what you have to do is determine if the
system still meets the vendors Warranty requirement (not necessarily
being
under warranty, but if it was new with the hardware you have in it
currently, would it be covered under warranty). As an example, if you
bought a NEW Dell today, and in 30 days changed out the motherboard
for an
ASUS XYZ board, you would no longer quality for support/warranty
under the
OEM's contract, so that would technically invalidate your OEM
installation
of the software. Now, if you got a Full Licensed copy of XP, then it
doesn't matter at all.

The OEM version IS the same as the BIOS locked version - the
difference is
that the BIOS locked version has a boot loader on the CD that won't
let
you extract XP unless it finds the vendors BIOS on the machine in
question
- it's still the same XP.


--


This is a really good discussion and one for the legalese books. Bravo!

I find myself in the predicament Lythos has hinted to in this
discussion. I have an Emachines with an OEM Windows XP Restore CD. I
recently have been in the process of upgrading the hard drive, drivers,
RAM, etc., all of which have given me no significant problems. However,
when I was in the process of upgrading my Motherboard's BIOS Windows XP
screamed at me first chance it had to reactivate. This only hints at
future trouble when I try to reinstall Windows XP with the
manufacturers OEM CD if what Leythos has stated here is true. All due
to a BIOS update that was necessary as it provided fixes for my
currently installed processor as well as some other known issues. It is
virtually the same piece of hardware, only updated. Doesn't seem fair
to me.

To summarize I find myself disliking the EULA , Microsoft's OEM, and
OEM PC manufacturers more and more. The way I see it, you still paid
good money for the system and there should be no way in the world that
they should be allowed to give a consumer a crippled OS package. My
theory is if you stop buying it, maybe they'll change their tunes. Or
perhaps switch to an alternate OS entirely.

My 2 cents.

Tony

Jupiter Jones [MVP] wrote:
Normally updating the BIOS is not a problem as long as you use a BIOS
from
the OEM.
As long as you stay with the same motherboard and correct BIOS
source, there
will be no problem unless you consider a 5 minute call to activate a
problem.
And the call may not be necessary.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/



Herein is where the problem lies, Emachines does not issue updates for
BIOS on my system. I was referred to the motherboard maufacturer for
this purpose. So it is not a bona fide Emachine BIOS, it is the
motherboard manufaturer's BIOS.

Now, if what Leythos stated is true then I will not be able to
reinstall Windows XP using the OEM CD as the BIOS lock string has
changed. There would be no reinstallation, or activation. That is
unless I reinstalled the Emachine's original OEM BIOS.

wrote:
Jupiter Jones [MVP] wrote:
Normally updating the BIOS is not a problem as long as you use a
BIOS from the OEM.
As long as you stay with the same motherboard and correct BIOS
source, there will be no problem unless you consider a 5 minute call
to activate a problem.
And the call may not be necessary.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/



Herein is where the problem lies, Emachines does not issue updates for
BIOS on my system. I was referred to the motherboard maufacturer for
this purpose. So it is not a bona fide Emachine BIOS, it is the
motherboard manufaturer's BIOS.

Now, if what Leythos stated is true then I will not be able to
reinstall Windows XP using the OEM CD as the BIOS lock string has
changed. There would be no reinstallation, or activation. That is
unless I reinstalled the Emachine's original OEM BIOS.

So reload the Emachines BIOS to reinstall XP, then update to the Mobo
Manufacturers BIOS, and activate.

You did back up the old eMachines BIOS, right?

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

Contact Emachines tech support to see where you get a BIOS update.
If they refer to the actual motherboard manufacturer, that BIOS should work
OK.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


wrote in message
oups.com...
Herein is where the problem lies, Emachines does not issue updates for
BIOS on my system. I was referred to the motherboard maufacturer for
this purpose. So it is not a bona fide Emachine BIOS, it is the
motherboard manufaturer's BIOS.

Now, if what Leythos stated is true then I will not be able to
reinstall Windows XP using the OEM CD as the BIOS lock string has
changed. There would be no reinstallation, or activation. That is
unless I reinstalled the Emachine's original OEM BIOS.

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 19:51:37 GMT, Leythos wrote:

Not as hard as you might think - what's the one thing that ties all the
"Parts" together? The motherboard. Change the motherboard and you can
change anything with it, change the CPU and you may have to change
motherboards, same with RAM.
But for any given CPU and other components, there are often many
motherboards available that will (give or take a bit) not change the
performance or features of the computer at all. For example an Asus
A8V + AMD64 3000+ vs an Abit AV8 + AMD64 3000+.

Even with the same motherboard type, there will usually be slight
revision differences between the first off the line, and the last ever
made.

For the "casual" user, I suspect the defining aspect of a "computer"
is often the case (or perhaps the keyboard/mouse/screen).

"Leythos" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 11:28:50 +0000, jmw wrote:

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 19:51:37 GMT, Leythos wrote:

Not as hard as you might think - what's the one thing that ties all the
"Parts" together? The motherboard. Change the motherboard and you can
change anything with it, change the CPU and you may have to change
motherboards, same with RAM.

Actually, you could say the same about the power supply. Without it, not one
motherboard in the universe will work and you will never hear the Windows
wave file.

But for any given CPU and other components, there are often many
motherboards available that will (give or take a bit) not change the
performance or features of the computer at all. For example an Asus
A8V + AMD64 3000+ vs an Abit AV8 + AMD64 3000+.

Even with the same motherboard type, there will usually be slight
revision differences between the first off the line, and the last ever
made.

Yes, but an A8V is not the same as an AV8, so it's a different computer.

No, it isn't. It's a different motherboard.

I've installed thousands of motherboards in machines over the years, the
motherboard was the single deciding factor in what made the computer what
it really is a unit. Sure, you can update the BIOS, install faster CPU's
(in some) and more RAM, but those actions don't change the capabilities of
the motherboard in general. Also, moving from a PC-DL Deluxe to a SE7501
or the other way around is a BIG change even though both are Dual CPU
boards.

For the "casual" user, I suspect the defining aspect of a "computer"
is often the case (or perhaps the keyboard/mouse/screen).

But, that's only because the "casual" user is usually completely ignorant.

Ignorant of YOUR definition? So what? There *is* no definition of what a
computer is nowadays. Now, if you want to be logical, the EULA means that
you cannnot install the same copy of Windows on two machines. Period. I have
changed motherboards and had no problem activating so how do you explain
that? It only took one phone call to the MS people who obviously disagree
with you. They count. You don't.
--
Alias

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