OEM versus Upgrade

Think holistically. In psychology you cannot take a piece from the whole.
A computer i would agree with and think motherboard is fair, however, there
are many things that make the computer work, so tkaing a piece from the
whole and counting as the whole is not correct.
A computer needs a powersupply, it needs the motherboard, it needs the
cpu, it needs monitor, needs keyboard, memory, and mouse, and if not onboard
a video card, hardrive, all of these work together so the user can use
windows. So why would windows be able to liscence on a small entity that is
not solely responsible for the person using the product? Because they can
with no competition. So therefore, the eula SHOULD not be so small as
stating a processor. Our computers and our minds work not as a small piece
but the combiend small pieces working towards the whole, hence, why you
cannot separate a piece from the whole.
"Alias" wrote in message
...

"Leythos" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 11:28:50 +0000, jmw wrote:

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 19:51:37 GMT, Leythos wrote:

Not as hard as you might think - what's the one thing that ties all the
"Parts" together? The motherboard. Change the motherboard and you can
change anything with it, change the CPU and you may have to change
motherboards, same with RAM.

Actually, you could say the same about the power supply. Without it, not
one motherboard in the universe will work and you will never hear the
Windows wave file.

But for any given CPU and other components, there are often many
motherboards available that will (give or take a bit) not change the
performance or features of the computer at all. For example an Asus
A8V + AMD64 3000+ vs an Abit AV8 + AMD64 3000+.

Even with the same motherboard type, there will usually be slight
revision differences between the first off the line, and the last ever
made.

Yes, but an A8V is not the same as an AV8, so it's a different computer.

No, it isn't. It's a different motherboard.

I've installed thousands of motherboards in machines over the years, the
motherboard was the single deciding factor in what made the computer what
it really is a unit. Sure, you can update the BIOS, install faster CPU's
(in some) and more RAM, but those actions don't change the capabilities
of
the motherboard in general. Also, moving from a PC-DL Deluxe to a SE7501
or the other way around is a BIG change even though both are Dual CPU
boards.

For the "casual" user, I suspect the defining aspect of a "computer"
is often the case (or perhaps the keyboard/mouse/screen).

But, that's only because the "casual" user is usually completely
ignorant.

Ignorant of YOUR definition? So what? There *is* no definition of what a
computer is nowadays. Now, if you want to be logical, the EULA means that
you cannnot install the same copy of Windows on two machines. Period. I
have changed motherboards and had no problem activating so how do you
explain that? It only took one phone call to the MS people who obviously
disagree with you. They count. You don't.
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"Leythos" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 07:55:04 -0500, mrpsychology wrote:

Think holistically. In psychology you cannot take a piece from the
whole.
A computer i would agree with and think motherboard is fair, however,
there
are many things that make the computer work, so tkaing a piece from the
whole and counting as the whole is not correct.

You needed to stop right there - no one is saying that anyone is "TAKING"
a piece, it's replacing a piece with a new/different one. You can change
the CPU to a faster one, increase the RAM, increase the PSU size, change
the color of the case, dance on one leg while chanting the EULA, buy only
changing the motherboard makes it a different system.

No, like I said before, it makes it a different motherboard. MS agrees with
me. You, therefore, are -- gasp! -- wrong. Unlike you, MS feels one can
update a computer, including the MB, with a generic OEM installation. I've
changed motherboards with no problems with activation. Others have too. Why
are you spreading this misinformation? Activation was not created with
upgrading or replacing defective parts in mind. It was created with the idea
that one should not install the same OS on two or more computers, yaknow,
"casual copying". The 120 days trip was so people could update, a
recognition that in today's computer world, upgrading is a very common
thing.
--
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"Leythos" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:23:18 +0100, Alias wrote:


"Leythos" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 11:28:50 +0000, jmw wrote:

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 19:51:37 GMT, Leythos wrote:

Not as hard as you might think - what's the one thing that ties all the
"Parts" together? The motherboard. Change the motherboard and you can
change anything with it, change the CPU and you may have to change
motherboards, same with RAM.

Actually, you could say the same about the power supply. Without it, not
one
motherboard in the universe will work and you will never hear the Windows
wave file.

No you couldn't, as I didn't exclude parts, I said that changing parts,
the motherboard, changes the entire characteristics of the computer.
Changing the PSU doesn't change anything in most cases, at least nothing
the OS or user can detect. Try and sty in the same realm.

But for any given CPU and other components, there are often many
motherboards available that will (give or take a bit) not change the
performance or features of the computer at all. For example an Asus
A8V + AMD64 3000+ vs an Abit AV8 + AMD64 3000+.

Even with the same motherboard type, there will usually be slight
revision differences between the first off the line, and the last ever
made.

Yes, but an A8V is not the same as an AV8, so it's a different computer.

No, it isn't. It's a different motherboard.

And what makes the computer a different computer - it's not the color of
the case, it's the functionality and branding that makes it a particular
computer. If you switch from a A8V to a PC-DL Deluxe it's an entirely
different computer.

I've installed thousands of motherboards in machines over the years,
the motherboard was the single deciding factor in what made the
computer what it really is a unit. Sure, you can update the BIOS,
install faster CPU's (in some) and more RAM, but those actions don't
change the capabilities of the motherboard in general. Also, moving
from a PC-DL Deluxe to a SE7501 or the other way around is a BIG change
even though both are Dual CPU boards.

For the "casual" user, I suspect the defining aspect of a "computer"
is often the case (or perhaps the keyboard/mouse/screen).

But, that's only because the "casual" user is usually completely
ignorant.

Ignorant of YOUR definition? So what? There *is* no definition of what a
computer is nowadays.

Sure there is, you just have to understand the basics about computers and
then you would understand that the Motherboard is what makes a computer a
particular type - even the OEM agreement from MS claims this.

Now, if you want to be logical, the EULA means
that you cannnot install the same copy of Windows on two machines.

Actually it states that you are not LICENSED to install on two machines.

Period. I have changed motherboards and had no problem activating so how
do you explain that? It only took one phone call to the MS people who
obviously disagree with you. They count. You don't.

Sure, activation isn't perfect and the MS people are mostly nice about
activating over the phone. I've installed Windows XP Prof using an already
used key (by accident) and called them, explained the issue, and was given
an activation key (since I had others). The same with Office 2003, I had
10 keys and reused one, it required a phone call to MS and they gave me a
key to use, not one question, they just provided it.

If you say that MS counts, then MS states that the MOTHERBOARD is what
makes the computer a computer.

Let's review. I have upgraded my MB with no problem. I just read MY EULA and
"motherboard" is not mentioned. Perhaps your crazy idea of a new computer is
only for the people in JesusLand not Spain.
--
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Jupiter Jones [MVP] wrote:
Contact Emachines tech support to see where you get a BIOS update.
If they refer to the actual motherboard manufacturer, that BIOS
should work
OK.


Believe it or not they were the ones that actually referred me to the
motherboards BIOS update. I think now that perhaps this gentleman I
talked to in tech support did not realize the domino effect this has
created.

I hope that you are right, I will have to reinstall just to see if it
would work.

Tony

"Leythos" wrote

The EULA for OEM states the Motherboard.

Really? Where?

--
Bob
Kanyak's Doghouse
http://www.kanyak.com

So reload the Emachines BIOS to reinstall XP, then update to the Mobo

Manufacturers BIOS, and activate.

You did back up the old eMachines BIOS, right?

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

To answer your question, yes I did back up my old BIOS. Still is a pain
though having to go through all of this trouble just to keep my system
humming smoothly.

Tony

Leythos wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 11:28:50 +0000, jmw wrote:

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 19:51:37 GMT, Leythos wrote:

Not as hard as you might think - what's the one thing that ties all
the "Parts" together? The motherboard. Change the motherboard and
you can change anything with it, change the CPU and you may have to
change motherboards, same with RAM.

But for any given CPU and other components, there are often many
motherboards available that will (give or take a bit) not change the
performance or features of the computer at all. For example an Asus
A8V + AMD64 3000+ vs an Abit AV8 + AMD64 3000+.

Even with the same motherboard type, there will usually be slight
revision differences between the first off the line, and the last
ever made.

Yes, but an A8V is not the same as an AV8, so it's a different
computer. I've installed thousands of motherboards in machines over
the years, the motherboard was the single deciding factor in what
made the computer what it really is a unit.

To You, Lamethos! To other people what makes the computer is the what
they can actually see.

Who in the effin' world are you to define what upgrades make make a new
computer. Hell, even MS isn't that arrogant, as they give differing
opinions to people that ask, and they never have define it in their
EULAs!

Sure, you can update the
BIOS, install faster CPU's (in some) and more RAM, but those actions
don't change the capabilities of the motherboard in general. Also,
moving from a PC-DL Deluxe to a SE7501 or the other way around is a
BIG change even though both are Dual CPU boards.

For the "casual" user, I suspect the defining aspect of a "computer"
is often the case (or perhaps the keyboard/mouse/screen).

But, that's only because the "casual" user is usually completely
ignorant.

Unlike you? They are ignorant about computers. You are ignorant about
reality! If I had to choose which to be ignorant about, I'd pick being
ignorant about computers!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

"Leythos" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:50:18 +0100, Alias wrote:


"Leythos" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 07:55:04 -0500, mrpsychology wrote:

Think holistically. In psychology you cannot take a piece from the
whole.
A computer i would agree with and think motherboard is fair, however,
there
are many things that make the computer work, so tkaing a piece from the
whole and counting as the whole is not correct.

You needed to stop right there - no one is saying that anyone is
"TAKING"
a piece, it's replacing a piece with a new/different one. You can change
the CPU to a faster one, increase the RAM, increase the PSU size, change
the color of the case, dance on one leg while chanting the EULA, buy
only
changing the motherboard makes it a different system.

No, like I said before, it makes it a different motherboard. MS agrees
with
me. You, therefore, are -- gasp! -- wrong. Unlike you, MS feels one can
update a computer, including the MB, with a generic OEM installation.
I've

Read the Quote from MS below this paragraph, you'll see that MS does not
agree with you. There IS a significant difference between OEM license and
RETAIL license, you might want to read them both.

changed motherboards with no problems with activation. Others have too.
Why
are you spreading this misinformation? Activation was not created with
upgrading or replacing defective parts in mind. It was created with the
idea
that one should not install the same OS on two or more computers, yaknow,
"casual copying". The 120 days trip was so people could update, a
recognition that in today's computer world, upgrading is a very common
thing.


Alias - how would you interpret what is quoted from MS below?

"Generally, you may upgrade or replace all of the hardware components on
your customer's computer and the end user may maintain the license for
the
original Microsoft® OEM operating system software, with the exception of
an
upgrade or replacement of the motherboard.

An upgrade of the motherboard is considered to result in a "new personal
computer" to which Microsoft® OEM operating system software cannot be
transferred from another computer. If the motherboard is upgraded or
replaced, for reasons other than a defect, then a new computer has been
created and the license of new operating system software is required.

If the motherboard is replaced because it is defective, you do NOT need
to
acquire a new operating system license for the PC."

It seems clear to me that MS understands that the Motherboard makes the
computer a computer. You are entitled to replace a defective motherboard
and maintain your license, but you are not entitled to UPGRADE your
motherboard and maintain your license.


Not what my EULA says ... and, I have done it and it was activated. Have
you?
--
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Leythos wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:50:18 +0100, Alias wrote:


"Leythos" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 07:55:04 -0500, mrpsychology wrote:

Think holistically. In psychology you cannot take a piece from the
whole.
A computer i would agree with and think motherboard is fair,
however, there
are many things that make the computer work, so tkaing a piece
from the whole and counting as the whole is not correct.

You needed to stop right there - no one is saying that anyone is
"TAKING" a piece, it's replacing a piece with a new/different one.
You can change the CPU to a faster one, increase the RAM, increase
the PSU size, change the color of the case, dance on one leg while
chanting the EULA, buy only changing the motherboard makes it a
different system.

No, like I said before, it makes it a different motherboard. MS
agrees with me. You, therefore, are -- gasp! -- wrong. Unlike you,
MS feels one can update a computer, including the MB, with a generic
OEM installation. I've

Read the Quote from MS below this paragraph, you'll see that MS does
not agree with you. There IS a significant difference between OEM
license and RETAIL license, you might want to read them both.

changed motherboards with no problems with activation. Others have
too. Why are you spreading this misinformation? Activation was not
created with upgrading or replacing defective parts in mind. It was
created with the idea that one should not install the same OS on two
or more computers, yaknow, "casual copying". The 120 days trip was
so people could update, a recognition that in today's computer
world, upgrading is a very common thing.


Alias - how would you interpret what is quoted from MS below?

"Generally, you may upgrade or replace all of the hardware
components on your customer's computer and the end user may maintain
the license for the original Microsoft® OEM operating system
software, with the exception of an upgrade or replacement of the
motherboard.

An upgrade of the motherboard is considered to result in a "new
personal computer" to which Microsoft® OEM operating system software
cannot be transferred from another computer. If the motherboard is
upgraded or replaced, for reasons other than a defect, then a new
computer has been created and the license of new operating system
software is required.

If the motherboard is replaced because it is defective, you do NOT
need to acquire a new operating system license for the PC."

It seems clear to me that MS understands that the Motherboard makes
the computer a computer. You are entitled to replace a defective
motherboard and maintain your license, but you are not entitled to
UPGRADE your motherboard and maintain your license.

LOL! Where can we find that quote, and to whom was it written to?

MS certified systembuilers perhaps?

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

Leythos wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 07:55:04 -0500, mrpsychology wrote:

So therefore, the eula SHOULD not be so small as
stating a processor.

The EULA for OEM states the Motherboard.

It does not! Liar!!!!!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

Leythos wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:56:39 +0100, Alias wrote:


"Leythos" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:23:18 +0100, Alias wrote:


"Leythos" wrote in message
news On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 11:28:50 +0000, jmw wrote:

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 19:51:37 GMT, Leythos
wrote:

Not as hard as you might think - what's the one thing that ties
all the "Parts" together? The motherboard. Change the
motherboard and you can change anything with it, change the CPU
and you may have to change motherboards, same with RAM.

Actually, you could say the same about the power supply. Without
it, not one
motherboard in the universe will work and you will never hear the
Windows wave file.

No you couldn't, as I didn't exclude parts, I said that changing
parts, the motherboard, changes the entire characteristics of the
computer. Changing the PSU doesn't change anything in most cases,
at least nothing the OS or user can detect. Try and sty in the same
realm.

But for any given CPU and other components, there are often many
motherboards available that will (give or take a bit) not change
the performance or features of the computer at all. For example
an Asus A8V + AMD64 3000+ vs an Abit AV8 + AMD64 3000+.

Even with the same motherboard type, there will usually be slight
revision differences between the first off the line, and the
last ever made.

Yes, but an A8V is not the same as an AV8, so it's a different
computer.

No, it isn't. It's a different motherboard.

And what makes the computer a different computer - it's not the
color of the case, it's the functionality and branding that makes
it a particular computer. If you switch from a A8V to a PC-DL
Deluxe it's an entirely different computer.

I've installed thousands of motherboards in machines over the
years, the motherboard was the single deciding factor in what
made the computer what it really is a unit. Sure, you can update
the BIOS, install faster CPU's (in some) and more RAM, but those
actions don't change the capabilities of the motherboard in
general. Also, moving from a PC-DL Deluxe to a SE7501 or the
other way around is a BIG change even though both are Dual CPU
boards.

For the "casual" user, I suspect the defining aspect of a
"computer" is often the case (or perhaps the
keyboard/mouse/screen).

But, that's only because the "casual" user is usually completely
ignorant.

Ignorant of YOUR definition? So what? There *is* no definition of
what a computer is nowadays.

Sure there is, you just have to understand the basics about
computers and then you would understand that the Motherboard is
what makes a computer a particular type - even the OEM agreement
from MS claims this.

Now, if you want to be logical, the EULA means
that you cannnot install the same copy of Windows on two machines.

Actually it states that you are not LICENSED to install on two
machines.

Period. I have changed motherboards and had no problem activating
so how do you explain that? It only took one phone call to the MS
people who obviously disagree with you. They count. You don't.

Sure, activation isn't perfect and the MS people are mostly nice
about activating over the phone. I've installed Windows XP Prof
using an already used key (by accident) and called them, explained
the issue, and was given an activation key (since I had others).
The same with Office 2003, I had 10 keys and reused one, it
required a phone call to MS and they gave me a key to use, not one
question, they just provided it.

If you say that MS counts, then MS states that the MOTHERBOARD is
what makes the computer a computer.

Let's review. I have upgraded my MB with no problem. I just read MY
EULA and "motherboard" is not mentioned. Perhaps your crazy idea of
a new computer is only for the people in JesusLand not Spain.

I can only answer for what I've read, and I just quoted it in another
reply to you.

LOL! When all else fails Lamethos turns into Liethos!

--
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Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

"Leythos" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:40:00 +0200, Opinicus wrote:

"Leythos" wrote

The EULA for OEM states the Motherboard.

Really? Where?

https://oem.microsoft.com/script/Con...?pageid=552862

That link doesn't work with Firefox. I get a pop up saying it isn't a
Microsoft signed web page.
--
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"Leythos" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:40:00 +0200, Opinicus wrote:

"Leythos" wrote

The EULA for OEM states the Motherboard.

Really? Where?

https://oem.microsoft.com/script/Con...?pageid=552862

To get in with IE, one needs to sign into Net Passport. F!ck that sh!t ...
got an url that doesn't require "activation"???
--
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wrote:
So reload the Emachines BIOS to reinstall XP, then update to the Mobo

Manufacturers BIOS, and activate.

You did back up the old eMachines BIOS, right?


To answer your question, yes I did back up my old BIOS. Still is a
pain though having to go through all of this trouble just to keep my
system humming smoothly.

Tony

Blame eMachines, for not putting out BIOS revisions, and for only
supplying restore CDs instead of full OEM install CDs.

eMachines is more at fault than MS in your situation. Other OEMs, like
Dell, are better at both supplying updated BIOSs, and including real
Reinstall CD. The cheapest price for a PC isn't always the best deal.

--
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Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

"Leythos" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:06:18 +0100, Alias wrote:


"Leythos" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:40:00 +0200, Opinicus wrote:

"Leythos" wrote

The EULA for OEM states the Motherboard.

Really? Where?

https://oem.microsoft.com/script/Con...?pageid=552862

That link doesn't work with Firefox. I get a pop up saying it isn't a
Microsoft signed web page.

Funny, I'm running a Linux box and using FireFox to access the MS site and
even entered my passport using FireFox and was able to get to it.

Opened browser, entered url, accepted certificate, entered passport info,
document shows clearly in FireFox.

I didn't let it get that far. I am NOT going to "authenticate" or set up a
Passport to read a web page.
--
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