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#91
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Kurt the small, of mind and body
**** off, you little freak. You started throwing "ad hominem" around the
day you read it on your word-of-the-day calendar, and it's the most polysyllabic word in your stunted little vocabulary. Go hump Kurt's leg. I think I'm done with all you half-wits. -- LB "Alias" wrote in message ... "Linda B" wrote in message ... I'm a little saddened to see that so many people, including you, Michael, completely missed the point. It was satire, but it was also completely over your head. I won't bother explaining. -- LB No need. It's obvious you confuse lies and ad hominem attacks with "satire". Alias |
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#92
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Kurt the small, of mind and body
Linda B wrote:
I'm a little saddened to see that so many people, including you, Michael, completely missed the point. It was satire, but it was also completely over your head. I won't bother explaining. Well, one good turn deserves another, and I'll risk being called a hypocrite for Michael's sake. And remember, Michael and I have been on opposite sides of the fence for a lot longer than many of ya'll have posted to this group, and I've been harder and nastier to him than anybody else. He once told me that "When you have to explain a joke (and in this case satire), it didn’t work." And I love that fact that you think I'm Lurker! ROFL! ;-) I hadn't noticed your penchant for bestiality until he pointed it out! ;-) -- Peace! Kurt Self-anointed Moderator microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea http://microscum.com/mscommunity "Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron! "Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei" |
#93
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Kurt the small, of mind and body
"Leythos" wrote in message news On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 20:40:19 +0100, Alias wrote: "Linda B" wrote in message ... I'm a little saddened to see that so many people, including you, Michael, completely missed the point. It was satire, but it was also completely over your head. I won't bother explaining. No need. It's obvious you confuse lies and ad hominem attacks with "satire". Oh, heck, come on, if your not one of Kurt's disciples it was dang funny. I'm not one of Kurt's disciples. Agreeing with someone and being their disciple are two different things. Yaknow, like your favorite web site and the EULA. Alias |
#94
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Kurt the small, of mind and body
"Linda B" wrote in message ... **** off, you little freak. You started throwing "ad hominem" around the day you read it on your word-of-the-day calendar, and it's the most polysyllabic word in your stunted little vocabulary. Go hump Kurt's leg. I think I'm done with all you half-wits. -- LB My, my. Alias "Alias" wrote in message ... "Linda B" wrote in message ... I'm a little saddened to see that so many people, including you, Michael, completely missed the point. It was satire, but it was also completely over your head. I won't bother explaining. -- LB No need. It's obvious you confuse lies and ad hominem attacks with "satire". Alias |
#95
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Kurt the small, of mind and body
Leythos wrote:
On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 10:03:07 -0800, kurttrail wrote: Lamethos. There goes your button again - can't keep a proper conversation going to you resort back to your childish manners. I can't really believe you're more than a kid in high-school, you certainly fall back to their typical trolling manners. In other words, Lamethos has no "rational explanation as to why [he] unrealistically believe[s] that some agreement exists between the End User and MS that justifies MS's password-protected, registration-required, extra-SBL/EULA 'New Rules,'" so he picks one word out of my post to divert from explaining his erroneous opinion. Thanks for pushing my button again, Lameboy! :-p -- Peace! Kurt Self-anointed Moderator microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea http://microscum.com/mscommunity "Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron! "Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei" |
#96
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Kurt the small, of mind and body
Leythos wrote:
On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 11:05:45 -0800, wrote: On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 17:31:29 GMT, Leythos wrote: On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 12:28:34 -0500, kurttrail wrote: Don't be fooled by those that take every word of MS's as Gospel. I agree, don't be fooled by anyone, lest of all me. Don't take anyone's word for anything, unless you are willing to accept the consequences for that trust. I'm one of those people that plays by almost all the rules, and if MS says they consider the "Motherboard" to be the computer for purposes of OEM Licensing then I'm going to stick with that definition as no matter what happens I can't go wrong. If by some change this ever gets court tested and it's found that MS is right, then I'm in the clear and so would anyone be that followed their directions. Likewise, if the courts hold that MS any part makes the computer and that as long as you keep at least one original part, that it's the same computer, then I'm still covered. The button passes to you now. Pardon me for intercepting the button but I've been following it for a number of days and this last post pushed my button. Leythos, you seem to have taken the position of accepting the MS position to avoid any future retribution should courts (if ever it comes to that) find MS is correct. In my opionion that is an illogical position to take and can become dangerous. It may not make sense to you, but as you say below, I should be entitled to my opinion. LOL! Who said you aren't entitled to believe any nonsense you want to believe. Since I have to comply with so many vendors license restrictions, and so many clients rely on us to properly license their environments, I'm not about to risk some "person's" interpretation that may or may not stand up in court. Do you just provide your customer with MS's interpretation, or do you present them both sides of the argument so they can make their own informed opinion? Something tells me that you just read them the MS riot act verbatim, like it was written in stone. It's not and has never been a money issue, Not for you! Your customer's money! it's an issue of being able to be taken to court and not having the money that MS does or the Anti-Piracy groups have. Legal is one thing, being taken to court by a opponent with deeper pockets is another. It's not like the ACLU is going to defend me if MS comes after me. LOL! What is MS gonna go after you for? Please explain! Guru's of various ilks have used and are using this tactic of threatening potential future harm to coerce others into accepting their "beliefs." This practice of threatening future harm is rampant in many aspects of most societies. It is dangerous practice and has led and will continue to lead to major problems. Ah, but you see, it appears you are talking about Politics/Religion and not Licensing. In licensing, if a vendor with DEEP POCKETS says you have to comply with X and you're doing Y and refuse to do X, and they vendor takes you to court, it costs you money to PROVE you're right. In the case of large vendors like MS, there is nothing compelling anyone to use their product, it's a CHOICE. Sure, you don't have to play by their rules, you don't have to listen to them and you can do what ever you want - until a action is brought against you. You are holding your customers to rules neither you or them agreed to. Neither the SBL or the EULA says anything about that changing a motherboard invalidates an OEM license. What MS says on its SB website, is definitely not binding on any End User, by any stretch of the imagination. It is not a legally valid addendum to either the SBL or the EULA, and it, in fact, directly contradicts what a computer is according to the SBL. I don't know how much you pay for your attorney, but our has never been cheap, in fact they charge more per hour that I charge for most of the guys. In many cases, just having to prove you are properly licensed can eat up more hours (and hours are free) than the cost of having purchased the necessary licenses to start with. That is your problem. Not an End User's. Especially private non-commercial individual who use the software in the PRIVACY of their own home! Now, I don't follow the "Guru" or others. I read the EULA (on many MS products), determined that I didn't have a clear definition of select terms, and spent several days with a regional MS representative in order to understand their licensing structure in addition to the documents surrounding it. I have also read definitions on various terms and conditions as listed on their site, not just the Systems Builder Site. And when the terms of the actual agreement contradict what the MS rep or MS web site says, you always favor MS's extra-EULA explanation over what is actually written in the license. You are blatantly anti-consumer, and pro-Corporation. In my opnion, it is far better to have open discussions and allow each individual to weigh the merits of the arguments without appealing to to this fear mongoring. I fully agree, but a discussion that entails foul language, maligning of names, and trolling, is far from a discussion. Heck, even if I say something nice about Kurts posting he gets bent out of shape and has to resort to childish insults or trolling. LOL! Buttons! I also fully agree that individuals should discuss this and other issues, but I don't consider it inappropriate or unjustified to license MS product as MS intends them to be licensed, even if there is no legal precedent to show that their license agreements or additional clarifications are binding. You just accept it all on faith. As I said before, just the cost associated with one action of being taken to court or audited can cost more than having purchasing the proper licenses as MS "intends" you do purchase. Private non-commercial individuals don't get audited as MS doesn't have that right to invade the privacy of one's home. If this issue was just concerning my home systems, not business system, I would side with Kurt, but he's missing that there is more to consider than just his side. I could care less about businesses. My concern is that of my fellow human beings in the privacy of their own home, and have som sycophantic MicroLovers telling them, in effect, that MS's word is the law, and that MS is the master of what they can and cannot do with their computer. I'm fully willing to let Kurt be the test case, he seems like he could do a good job at it. So am I! I even announced to MS that I actually move OEM software to another computer back in 2001, that's how willing I am to be a test case. It ain't my fault that MS has chosen not to exercise its due diligence when it come to the bogus usage term on private non-commercial individuals. Their silence on the matter speaks volumes. By not exercising due diligence when it comes to my open flaunting of their Bogus unsubstantiated rules, they have tacitly agreed to my interpretation of them. I am not willing to let my mother or clients or my business be the test case. Nope, you'd rather have your mom buy more copies than she needs over rules that MS has no way to find out about! Thanks for the feedback. You're Welcome! -- Peace! Kurt Self-anointed Moderator microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea http://microscum.com/mscommunity "Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron! "Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei" |
#97
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Kurt the small, of mind and body
On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 19:26:26 GMT, Leythos wrote:
I'm one of those people that plays by almost all the rules, and if MS says they consider the "Motherboard" to be the computer for purposes of OEM Licensing then I'm going to stick with that definition as no matter what happens I can't go wrong. If by some change this ever gets court tested and it's found that MS is right, then I'm in the clear and so would anyone be that followed their directions. Likewise, if the courts hold that MS any part makes the computer and that as long as you keep at least one original part, that it's the same computer, then I'm still covered. The button passes to you now. Pardon me for intercepting the button but I've been following it for a number of days and this last post pushed my button. Leythos, you seem to have taken the position of accepting the MS position to avoid any future retribution should courts (if ever it comes to that) find MS is correct. In my opionion that is an illogical position to take and can become dangerous. It may not make sense to you, but as you say below, I should be entitled to my opinion. Since I have to comply with so many vendors license restrictions, and so many clients rely on us to properly license their environments, I'm not about to risk some "person's" interpretation that may or may not stand up in court. It's not and has never been a money issue, it's an issue of being able to be taken to court and not having the money that MS does or the Anti-Piracy groups have. Legal is one thing, being taken to court by a opponent with deeper pockets is another. It's not like the ACLU is going to defend me if MS comes after me. If by "person's" you mean Kurttrail, I agree. If by "person's" you mean MS, then we have a classic case of a Guru. Guru's of various ilks have used and are using this tactic of threatening potential future harm to coerce others into accepting their "beliefs." This practice of threatening future harm is rampant in many aspects of most societies. It is dangerous practice and has led and will continue to lead to major problems. Ah, but you see, it appears you are talking about Politics/Religion and not Licensing. In licensing, if a vendor with DEEP POCKETS says you have to comply with X and you're doing Y and refuse to do X, and they vendor takes you to court, it costs you money to PROVE you're right. In the case of large vendors like MS, there is nothing compelling anyone to use their product, it's a CHOICE. Sure, you don't have to play by their rules, you don't have to listen to them and you can do what ever you want - until a action is brought against you. I don't know how much you pay for your attorney, but our has never been cheap, in fact they charge more per hour that I charge for most of the guys. In many cases, just having to prove you are properly licensed can eat up more hours (and hours are free) than the cost of having purchased the necessary licenses to start with. Now, I don't follow the "Guru" or others. I read the EULA (on many MS products), determined that I didn't have a clear definition of select terms, and spent several days with a regional MS representative in order to understand their licensing structure in addition to the documents surrounding it. I have also read definitions on various terms and conditions as listed on their site, not just the Systems Builder Site. There are many Gurus in business environments. In this case the Guru is MS and you do follow. It appears you follow through fear of being hurt or hurting others in the future. This is a classic tactic used in business as well as politics and religion. I cannot believe you are so naive to think MS has not nor will not use scare tactics to achieve their business goals. In my opnion, it is far better to have open discussions and allow each individual to weigh the merits of the arguments without appealing to to this fear mongoring. I fully agree, but a discussion that entails foul language, maligning of names, and trolling, is far from a discussion. Heck, even if I say something nice about Kurts posting he gets bent out of shape and has to resort to childish insults or trolling. I also fully agree that individuals should discuss this and other issues, but I don't consider it inappropriate or unjustified to license MS product as MS intends them to be licensed, even if there is no legal precedent to show that their license agreements or additional clarifications are binding. As I said before, just the cost associated with one action of being taken to court or audited can cost more than having purchasing the proper licenses as MS "intends" you do purchase. If this issue was just concerning my home systems, not business system, I would side with Kurt, but he's missing that there is more to consider than just his side. I'm fully willing to let Kurt be the test case, he seems like he could do a good job at it. I am not willing to let my mother or clients or my business be the test case. Siding with Kurt is easy if one is concerned only with their private systems. It is more difficult when others are involved. I cannot criticize your actions as I cannot know what I would do if I were in your shoes. But I fail to see how you can deny that MS makes and changes the rules as it sees fit to maximize their profits at the expense of others. Without testing their decisions in court, but simply by using its immense resources they have and will continue to coerce businesses and individuals by using potential future harm tactics. A common practice used by Gurus of all walks of life. Thanks for the feedback. You are welcome |
#98
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Kurt the small, of mind and body
Leythos wrote:
On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 14:55:51 -0500, kurttrail wrote: Leythos wrote: On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 10:03:07 -0800, kurttrail wrote: Lamethos. There goes your button again - can't keep a proper conversation going to you resort back to your childish manners. I can't really believe you're more than a kid in high-school, you certainly fall back to their typical trolling manners. In other words, Lamethos has no "rational explanation as to why [he] unrealistically believe[s] that some agreement exists between the End User and MS that justifies MS's password-protected, registration-required, extra-SBL/EULA 'New Rules,'" I think I've clearly explained my position a great many times. No. You have not given one rational explanation why and End User should follow extra-SBL/EULA "New Rules." You explained why you follow them as a business man, for fear of Big Brother suing you, but you have yet explained why a person using OEM XP should follow your advice to believe that MS's password-protected, registration-required, extra-SBL/EULA 'New Rules' in the privacy of their own home. I've also explained my position on why I will continue to license products according to the licensing information available to anyone, not limiting myself to the EULA. No, it's not available to anyone unwilling to register for access to the SB web site. As a somewhat intelligent human being, I don't go around registering on web sites when I have no compelling reason to access them. I will not test the validity MS claims or licenses as it costs more to be part of the test than the licenses. But you have taken a side, and if it is ever tested in a court of law, you may be financially responsible for the your admittingly selling more licenses than necessary, if MS loses. And if tested, MS stands a very good chance of losing, since what it says on its web site is a direct contradiction to what is actually written in the SBL concerning what makes up a computer. so he picks one word out of my post to divert from explaining his erroneous opinion. Nope, I pointed out how you can't discuss anything with out a childish or snide part in your reply. Your argument is about style to avoid substance. Even when I complemented you on not doing it earlier today you replied in your typical snide fashion - which has given me a good understanding of your limited communication range. Buttons, dude! ;-) Thanks for pushing my button again, Lameboy! :-p So, you going to continue to say I've not made my position clear, you going to continue to act childishly in responses? Again you explained you fear that motivates you personally as a businessman, you have yet to give one compelling reason why any individual should accept MS's extra-EULA terms, written for System Builders not End Users, as the Gospel According to Sir Billy Gates of Redmond. Guess it's your button now. Dude, I have no button. I just have you as a pratical demonstration of how irrational MicroSycophants have to be in order to believe as they do. Thanks again for playing my game! -- Peace! Kurt Self-anointed Moderator microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea http://microscum.com/mscommunity "Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron! "Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei" |
#99
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Kurt the small, of mind and body
Leythos wrote:
On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 13:23:19 -0500, kurttrail wrote: So keep thinking you are pushing my button, you are only helping me. Right back at you big boy. How? Are you actually trying to convince the group how foolish and fearful you really are? Why do you even bother? I'm sure anyone with a rational thought in their heads are already convinced! ;-) -- Peace! Kurt Self-anointed Moderator microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea http://microscum.com/mscommunity "Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron! "Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei" |
#100
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Kurt the small, of mind and body
Leythos wrote:
On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 20:40:19 +0100, Alias wrote: "Linda B" wrote in message ... I'm a little saddened to see that so many people, including you, Michael, completely missed the point. It was satire, but it was also completely over your head. I won't bother explaining. No need. It's obvious you confuse lies and ad hominem attacks with "satire". Oh, heck, come on, if your not one of Kurt's disciples it was dang funny. Yes, it was funny, except it exposed more about Linda, than it did about me. -- Peace! Kurt Self-anointed Moderator microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea http://microscum.com/mscommunity "Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron! "Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei" |
#101
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Kurt the small, of mind and body
Alias wrote:
"Leythos" wrote in message news On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 20:40:19 +0100, Alias wrote: "Linda B" wrote in message ... I'm a little saddened to see that so many people, including you, Michael, completely missed the point. It was satire, but it was also completely over your head. I won't bother explaining. No need. It's obvious you confuse lies and ad hominem attacks with "satire". Oh, heck, come on, if your not one of Kurt's disciples it was dang funny. I'm not one of Kurt's disciples. Agreeing with someone and being their disciple are two different things. Yaknow, like your favorite web site and the EULA. LOL! No I doubt he understands that his favorite website and the EULA are too separate and distinct things! -- Peace! Kurt Self-anointed Moderator microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea http://microscum.com/mscommunity "Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron! "Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei" |
#102
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Kurt the small, of mind and body
Leythos wrote:
On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 20:55:00 +0100, Alias wrote: Oh, heck, come on, if your not one of Kurt's disciples it was dang funny. I'm not one of Kurt's disciples. Agreeing with someone and being their disciple are two different things. Yaknow, like your favorite web site and the EULA. Oh, come on, there are times when I can't tell the two of you apart, except your not foul and angry most of the time and he is. When am I angry? You should actually see how hard I'm really laughing as I read your posts and reply to them! -- Peace! Kurt Self-anointed Moderator microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea http://microscum.com/mscommunity "Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron! "Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei" |
#103
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Kurt the small, of mind and body
Linda B wrote:
**** off, you little freak. LOL! You started throwing "ad hominem" around the day you read it on your word-of-the-day calendar, and it's the most polysyllabic word in your stunted little vocabulary. Go hump Kurt's leg. Um, no thanks. I think it was you that was looking for that kind of attention! I think I'm done with all you half-wits. That only leaves you with your own kind, no-wits! -- Peace! Kurt Self-anointed Moderator microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea http://microscum.com/mscommunity "Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron! "Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei" |
#104
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Kurt the small, of mind and body
Leythos wrote:
On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 11:47:15 -0800, Linda B wrote: **** off, you little freak. You started throwing "ad hominem" around the day you read it on your word-of-the-day calendar, and it's the most polysyllabic word in your stunted little vocabulary. Go hump Kurt's leg. I think I'm done with all you half-wits. OK, that's the second time that people have wondered about why I was laughing out-loud today. Thanks I needed that one too. Yeah, because you aren't man enough to stand up for yourself. You probably are hiding behind your mommies dress right now. -- Peace! Kurt Self-anointed Moderator microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea http://microscum.com/mscommunity "Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron! "Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei" |
#105
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Kurt the small, of mind and body
Leythos wrote:
On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 15:23:43 -0500, kurttrail wrote: Do you just provide your customer with MS's interpretation, or do you present them both sides of the argument so they can make their own informed opinion? Something tells me that you just read them the MS riot act verbatim, like it was written in stone. Before a purchase I set down with the client and go over a solution, to make sure there is complete understanding of the solution. Then, if no changes are necessary, I present them with the licensing needed according to either the MS rep or the CDW/Insight/etc... rep's list/costs. I have never told a client that they could do what every they wanted with the MS products and to nor worry because it's not been tested in court yet, I have never told a client that some guy on Usenet says we don't have to listen to MS concerning licenses. I've also never told them to ignore the licensing information provide by Adobe, MacroMedia, Oracle, PeopleSoft, or any other vendors license information. And you never told them that what they are agreeing to may be changed according to what Microsoft might dream up any time in the future and write on a registration-require web site, I would suspect. So much for full-disclosure! As a matter of fact, where the is any question in how many/what type of licenses are needed I always get a quote from the vendor or a vendors agent. My opinion on licenses doesn't matter, it never did. I only present the information that I can find to be valid from the vendor or the vendors agents. That's right your opinion doesn't matter, you just do what you are told, like the mindless MicroSycophant that you are. I suppose next time we do a state contract you would want me to tell them that as long as we purchase 1 CAL for SQL server that we can enable 4 processor support and use it as the backend for the web server apps? If that is what the EULA says, and not some registration-required web site. See you don't understand me at all. I fully agree that the EULA is a perfectly valid commercial use contract. Now extra-SBL/EULA interpretations that hidden away behind registrations and passwords are NOT part of any valid agreement. Especially when it directly conflicts with what is written in the original agreement. SBL: "A "fully assembled computer system" means a computer system consisting of at least a central processing unit, a motherboard, a hard drive, a power supply, and a case. The motherboard is only one of five parts of a computer, and MS has no right or basis in reality to redefine a computer as just the motherboard, outside of what is written in the SBL on its registration-required, password-protected web site for Microsoft-certified System Builders, and MS should not have any expectation that ANY End User of OEM software is bound by this bait-n-switch redefinition. -- Peace! Kurt Self-anointed Moderator microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea http://microscum.com/mscommunity "Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron! "Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei" |
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