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#1
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I just had a radical idea
Why can't Microsoft post a notification when they are downloading
updates/upgrades? It would be nice to know why all of a sudden half my download bandwith disappeared. Even more radical - why don't they wait till it is outside of my set active hours. Then it really wouldn't matter if they take up a majority of my bandwidth, because I will be in bed sleeping the sleep of the just. Just a thought, but to paraphrase a popular song, "Gee it would be nice if you did." |
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#2
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I just had a radical idea
On 2/22/19 9:05 PM, lonelydad wrote:
Why can't Microsoft post a notification when they are downloading updates/upgrades? It would be nice to know why all of a sudden half my download bandwith disappeared. Even more radical - why don't they wait till it is outside of my set active hours. Then it really wouldn't matter if they take up a majority of my bandwidth, because I will be in bed sleeping the sleep of the just. Just a thought, but to paraphrase a popular song, "Gee it would be nice if you did." Add to that, would it not be nice if they had a bugzilla bug reporter. And in-sourced their programmers back to the United States. |
#3
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I just had a radical idea
lonelydad wrote:
Why can't Microsoft post a notification when they are downloading updates/upgrades? It would be nice to know why all of a sudden half my download bandwith disappeared. Background Intelligent Transfer Service (BITS) will only use spare bandwidth. If it is using half of your bandwidth means that you were only using half and the other half would've been unused. Even more radical - why don't they wait till it is outside of my set active hours. Then it really wouldn't matter if they take up a majority of my bandwidth, because I will be in bed sleeping the sleep of the just. So, are you reporting that active hours aren't obeyed? Did you define when are your active hours for that computer? https://www.windowscentral.com/how-c...during-updates |
#4
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I just had a radical idea
On 2/23/2019 12:05 AM, lonelydad wrote:
Why can't Microsoft post a notification when they are downloading updates/upgrades? It would be nice to know why all of a sudden half my download bandwith disappeared. Even more radical - why don't they wait till it is outside of my set active hours. Then it really wouldn't matter if they take up a majority of my bandwidth, because I will be in bed sleeping the sleep of the just. Just a thought, but to paraphrase a popular song, "Gee it would be nice if you did." Because I'm curious...how much bandwidth is "half"? My last updates have been using every last bit of my 25MB DSL. It also hogs all of my measly 1.4 upload whenever anything gets sent to One Drive. GrtArtiste |
#5
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I just had a radical idea
lonelydad wrote:
Why can't Microsoft post a notification when they are downloading updates/upgrades? It would be nice to know why all of a sudden half my download bandwith disappeared. It shouldn't eat (much) bandwidth when you're using it yourself https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/desktop/bits/background-intelligent-transfer-service-portal |
#6
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I just had a radical idea
VanguardLH wrote:
lonelydad wrote: Why can't Microsoft post a notification when they are downloading updates/upgrades? It would be nice to know why all of a sudden half my download bandwith disappeared. Background Intelligent Transfer Service (BITS) will only use spare bandwidth. If it is using half of your bandwidth means that you were only using half and the other half would've been unused. Even more radical - why don't they wait till it is outside of my set active hours. Then it really wouldn't matter if they take up a majority of my bandwidth, because I will be in bed sleeping the sleep of the just. So, are you reporting that active hours aren't obeyed? Did you define when are your active hours for that computer? https://www.windowscentral.com/how-c...during-updates The OS Upgrade no longer uses BITS. You can try the BITSADMIN utility (likely deprecated) and see what is going on. bitsadmin /monitor /allusers ******* My test case finally started running the 1809 upgrade just now. This is where I disable DoSvc by setting it to Bypass, and also throttle the BITS it will end up using for the Upgrade Install. (Use "download original image") https://i.postimg.cc/B6Kby0kS/thrott...GPEDIT-MSC.gif Here, you can see it's only using one connection, even though the BITS table has room for a couple more. And an interesting result, is the download is *no slower* than it is with the crappy default method. Microsoft appears to change the method they use, and uses a "large" download over the single connection used. https://i.postimg.cc/4xwnrw30/upgrade-throttled.gif Whereas, downloading the DVD avoids all of this "puttering around" to achieve a similar result. While BITS was doing its single-connection download, my Surf Machine was still able to surf the Internet without being slowed down. And that's because the router "fair share" was only having to deal with single connections from each machine. Rather than the Upgrade machine machine-gunning the router and "stealing" all the fair-share. As it's based on connection count and nothing else. "He who opens the most connections on a home router, wins." That's my experience. Paul |
#7
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I just had a radical idea
GrtArtiste wrote:
On 2/23/2019 12:05 AM, lonelydad wrote: Why can't Microsoft post a notification when they are downloading updates/upgrades? It would be nice to know why all of a sudden half my download bandwith disappeared. Even more radical - why don't they wait till it is outside of my set active hours. Then it really wouldn't matter if they take up a majority of my bandwidth, because I will be in bed sleeping the sleep of the just. Just a thought, but to paraphrase a popular song, "Gee it would be nice if you did." Because I'm curious...how much bandwidth is "half"? My last updates have been using every last bit of my 25MB DSL. It also hogs all of my measly 1.4 upload whenever anything gets sent to One Drive. GrtArtiste I wonder if there are any definitive articles explaining how it's supposed to work. The problem is, home routers are sensitive to "connection count". When a Win10 machine opens 20 connections, it "hogs" the router. It squeezes out a machine which is just using its web browser. Yet, the Win10 machine is supposed to have some notion of bandwidth. But bandwidth is *not* the problem. You can have two computers downloading a DVD, and if each machine uses one connection for the job, they each get 50% of link. Now, even if you set the "bandwidth" on one machine to some lesser number, it can still use an excess of connections to foul up the usability of the home router for other people in the house. Bandwidth as a knob to twiddle is *not* the answer. There's more to it. And I just got my test case to run, the one I've been waiting months for it to take off. And when I force fed it the Feb 2019 Patch Tuesday, finally it started the Upgrade download after that. And it did it with my modified BITS settings, and it behaved nicely and the download went just as fast without being a pig about it. It downloaded the whole Upgrade, using no more than one connection. And it ran at 83% link while doing it. If I were to Web Surf on the other machine, the transfer rate on the Win10 machine would momentarily drop. In other words, fairly sharing my home router. Paul |
#8
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I just had a radical idea
On 2/23/2019 5:08 AM, Paul wrote:
GrtArtiste wrote: On 2/23/2019 12:05 AM, lonelydad wrote: Why can't Microsoft post a notification when they are downloading updates/upgrades? It would be nice to know why all of a sudden half my download bandwith disappeared. Even more radical - why don't they wait till it is outside of my set active hours. Then it really wouldn't matter if they take up a majority of my bandwidth, because I will be in bed sleeping the sleep of the just. Just a thought, but to paraphrase a popular song, "Gee it would be nice if you did." Because I'm curious...how much bandwidth is "half"? My last updates have been using every last bit of my 25MB DSL. It also hogs all of my measly 1.4 upload whenever anything gets sent to One Drive. GrtArtiste I wonder if there are any definitive articles explaining how it's supposed to work. The problem is, home routers are sensitive to "connection count". When a Win10 machine opens 20 connections, it "hogs" the router. It squeezes out a machine which is just using its web browser. Yet, the Win10 machine is supposed to have some notion of bandwidth. But bandwidth is *not* the problem. You can have two computers downloading a DVD, and if each machine uses one connection for the job, they each get 50% of link. Now, even if you set the "bandwidth" on one machine to some lesser number, it can still use an excess of connections to foul up the usability of the home router for other people in the house. Bandwidth as a knob to twiddle is *not* the answer. There's more to it. And I just got my test case to run, the one I've been waiting months for it to take off. And when I force fed it the Feb 2019 Patch Tuesday, finally it started the Upgrade download after that. And it did it with my modified BITS settings, and it behaved nicely and the download went just as fast without being a pig about it. It downloaded the whole Upgrade, using no more than one connection. And it ran at 83% link while doing it. If I were to Web Surf on the other machine, the transfer rate on the Win10 machine would momentarily drop. In other words, fairly sharing my home router. Â*Â* Paul Thank you for the explanation. What concerns me though is that the vast majority of users won't bother to modify their BITS settings and will just live with it. So...does *more* bandwidth eventually become *enough* bandwidth to mitigate the problem to any noticeable degree? Or will the update/upgrade process always monopolize as much bandwidth as it can? The OP originally said "half my download bandwidth disappeared". If that was not just an guess/estimate, I'd like to know how much "half" really is. GrtArtiste |
#9
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I just had a radical idea
GrtArtiste wrote:
On 2/23/2019 5:08 AM, Paul wrote: GrtArtiste wrote: On 2/23/2019 12:05 AM, lonelydad wrote: Why can't Microsoft post a notification when they are downloading updates/upgrades? It would be nice to know why all of a sudden half my download bandwith disappeared. Even more radical - why don't they wait till it is outside of my set active hours. Then it really wouldn't matter if they take up a majority of my bandwidth, because I will be in bed sleeping the sleep of the just. Just a thought, but to paraphrase a popular song, "Gee it would be nice if you did." Because I'm curious...how much bandwidth is "half"? My last updates have been using every last bit of my 25MB DSL. It also hogs all of my measly 1.4 upload whenever anything gets sent to One Drive. GrtArtiste I wonder if there are any definitive articles explaining how it's supposed to work. The problem is, home routers are sensitive to "connection count". When a Win10 machine opens 20 connections, it "hogs" the router. It squeezes out a machine which is just using its web browser. Yet, the Win10 machine is supposed to have some notion of bandwidth. But bandwidth is *not* the problem. You can have two computers downloading a DVD, and if each machine uses one connection for the job, they each get 50% of link. Now, even if you set the "bandwidth" on one machine to some lesser number, it can still use an excess of connections to foul up the usability of the home router for other people in the house. Bandwidth as a knob to twiddle is *not* the answer. There's more to it. And I just got my test case to run, the one I've been waiting months for it to take off. And when I force fed it the Feb 2019 Patch Tuesday, finally it started the Upgrade download after that. And it did it with my modified BITS settings, and it behaved nicely and the download went just as fast without being a pig about it. It downloaded the whole Upgrade, using no more than one connection. And it ran at 83% link while doing it. If I were to Web Surf on the other machine, the transfer rate on the Win10 machine would momentarily drop. In other words, fairly sharing my home router. Paul Thank you for the explanation. What concerns me though is that the vast majority of users won't bother to modify their BITS settings and will just live with it. So...does *more* bandwidth eventually become *enough* bandwidth to mitigate the problem to any noticeable degree? Or will the update/upgrade process always monopolize as much bandwidth as it can? The OP originally said "half my download bandwidth disappeared". If that was not just an guess/estimate, I'd like to know how much "half" really is. GrtArtiste Well, I know the effect he's referring to, because I first saw that about three releases ago. And it makes your Surf Machine "slogging slow". I think at one point, I even had a connection time out, because there wasn't an opportunity to squeeze in a packet in time. Microsoft did turn it down a bit, and I don't think they open quite as many connections today as they did the first time they used that method. And if the Win10 machine is aggressive enough, it can actually crash my router. My router isn't exactly a champ (it would never be selected for usage with Tor), but I was duly impressed that Windows 10 and its bad connection habits, could actually tip the router section over. It doesn't do that now. This generation of release is a little better behaved and doesn't kill the router, but it still makes the Surf Machine slow. And as my test result shows, it's unnecessary to make the process punishing like this. By turning off DoSvc and going back to BITS, the download process used 83% of the link (comparable to other cases), the download finished in a decent time (it might have finished faster than normal actually), and it only used the one connection. I could surf on the Surf Machine as if Windows Update wasn't even running. Which tells you the process doesn't have to be crappy, to work. Paul |
#10
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I just had a radical idea
On 2/23/2019 12:05 AM, lonelydad wrote:
Why can't Microsoft post a notification when they are downloading updates/upgrades? It would be nice to know why all of a sudden half my download bandwith disappeared. Even more radical - why don't they wait till it is outside of my set active hours. Then it really wouldn't matter if they take up a majority of my bandwidth, because I will be in bed sleeping the sleep of the just. Just a thought, but to paraphrase a popular song, "Gee it would be nice if you did." It definitely would be nice to know when updates are going to be downloaded. Now the only way to know is when the machine starts acting strange or slow. If there was a pre download flag, you could plan for the download. The download could then be completed faster if you were not using the computer. PS: Our computers are only on when we are using them, so the times for download do not apply, as the computer may be off when MS wants to download. -- 2018: The year we learn to play the great game of Euchre |
#11
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I just had a radical idea
In article , Paul
wrote: The problem is, home routers are sensitive to "connection count". When a Win10 machine opens 20 connections, it "hogs" the router. It squeezes out a machine which is just using its web browser. nonsense. home routers can handle many hundreds, if not many thousands of simultaneous connections. if 20 connections caused a problem, then all sorts of things wouldn't work properly, or at all. a single web page often has more than that, plus all the other stuff that's in use. |
#12
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I just had a radical idea
In article , Paul
wrote: And if the Win10 machine is aggressive enough, it can actually crash my router. then you have an incredibly ****ty router. |
#13
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I just had a radical idea
GrtArtiste wrote in
: On 2/23/2019 12:05 AM, lonelydad wrote: Why can't Microsoft post a notification when they are downloading updates/upgrades? It would be nice to know why all of a sudden half my download bandwith disappeared. Even more radical - why don't they wait till it is outside of my set active hours. Then it really wouldn't matter if they take up a majority of my bandwidth, because I will be in bed sleeping the sleep of the just. Just a thought, but to paraphrase a popular song, "Gee it would be nice if you did." Because I'm curious...how much bandwidth is "half"? My last updates have been using every last bit of my 25MB DSL. It also hogs all of my measly 1.4 upload whenever anything gets sent to One Drive. GrtArtiste I have a 5mb/500kb DSL line. I started this post last night when I noticed a big download going on, and said half because it appeared to be half on the network monitoring screen I always have up. Now that you mention it, the screen is set to display 7mbs max, so roughly half of that would be somewhere around 3.5mbs to 4mbs, which is a larger percentage than half. My point is that I have had times where I was already using a good portion of my bandwidth for some other purpose, like streaming a video. Then Microsoft kicks in, and all of a sudden my video isn't streaming like it should. It wouldn't take that much to implement. When my turn comes up in the lottery, just ping my system and get my current active hours. If the time is outside of those hours, just go ahead and download. If I am still in my active zone, mark my download as pending with a start after marker. Then whenever the system finishes a download they can check the pending queue, and start sending to the first system on the list that qualifies. After all, they are already checking my system for anything that would disqualify me from getting the download, like the video problems with 1809. It shouldn't have a major impact on their download process, since they have enough systems to download to to keep their effort going. |
#14
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I just had a radical idea
Paul wrote in :
VanguardLH wrote: lonelydad wrote: Why can't Microsoft post a notification when they are downloading updates/upgrades? It would be nice to know why all of a sudden half my download bandwith disappeared. Background Intelligent Transfer Service (BITS) will only use spare bandwidth. If it is using half of your bandwidth means that you were only using half and the other half would've been unused. Even more radical - why don't they wait till it is outside of my set active hours. Then it really wouldn't matter if they take up a majority of my bandwidth, because I will be in bed sleeping the sleep of the just. So, are you reporting that active hours aren't obeyed? Did you define when are your active hours for that computer? Active hours is a setting that tells Microsoft that they are not to remotely force a start of the upgrade process withint that time range. The assumption is that either the machine is not in use at all, or can be interrupted without problem outside of those hours. They have nothing to do with when Microsoft downloads any updates to one's system. |
#15
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I just had a radical idea
Paul wrote in :
GrtArtiste wrote: On 2/23/2019 12:05 AM, lonelydad wrote: Why can't Microsoft post a notification when they are downloading updates/upgrades? It would be nice to know why all of a sudden half my download bandwith disappeared. Even more radical - why don't they wait till it is outside of my set active hours. Then it really wouldn't matter if they take up a majority of Because I'm curious...how much bandwidth is "half"? And I just got my test case to run, the one I've been waiting months for it to take off. And when I force fed it the Feb 2019 Patch Tuesday, finally it started the Upgrade download after that. And it did it with my modified BITS settings, and it behaved nicely and the download went just as fast without being a pig about it. It downloaded the whole Upgrade, using no more than one connection. And it ran at 83% link while doing it. If I were to Web Surf on the other machine, the transfer rate on the Win10 machine would momentarily drop. In other words, fairly sharing my home router. Paul I know you explained what your were doing a while back on a similar thread, but could you repeat it for those of us who didn't save your answer that time? |
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