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Why when I select pictures 1 to 10, does Paint.NET order them capriciously?



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 19th 18, 03:15 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Arlen Holder
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Posts: 466
Default Why when I select pictures 1 to 10, does Paint.NET order them capriciously?

Why when I select pictures 1 to 10, does Paint.NET order them capriciously?

Knowing Microsoft orders files funny when you name then file1 or file01, I
named a bunch of screenshots ant001, ant002, ... ant009 using Irfanview
batch renaming commands.

In Windows file explorer, I selected the first file ant001:
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=686...mbertest01.jpg

And then held down the shift key to select the last file, ant009, which
selects all nine files.
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=890...mbertest02.jpg

I right click on any one of them to "Edit with Paint.NET":
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=700...mbertest03.jpg

But when Paint.NET comes up, they're in a seemingly capricious order.
ant008, ant005, ant003, ant006, ant009, ant004, ant002, and007, and001
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=731...mbertest04.jpg

This capricious ordering happens day in and day out, no matter what, which
makes sequential screenshot editing a pain for no good reason (AFAIK).

Since I wish to edit them in sequence to document an Android to iOS file
transfer, I have to manually reorder them within Paint.NET.

What trick am I missing for loading them into Paint.NET in correct order?

NOTE: It's not a big deal with 9 files, but try this set of 400!

Why when I select pictures 1 to 10, does Paint.NET order them capriciously?
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  #2  
Old September 19th 18, 03:21 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Arlen Holder
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Posts: 466
Default Why when I select pictures 1 to 10, does Paint.NET order them capriciously?

On 19 Sep 2018 02:15:03 GMT, Arlen Holder wrote:

NOTE: It's not a big deal with 9 files, but try this set of 400!

Why when I select pictures 1 to 10, does Paint.NET order them capriciously?


I forgot to screenshot the set of 400 files I wish to edit in order.
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=8140464numbertest05.jpg

It's a waste of time to have to reorder them in Paint.NET.

What is the trick to make Windows just open the files in the correct order?
  #3  
Old September 19th 18, 05:49 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Arlen Holder
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Posts: 466
Default Why when I select pictures 1 to 10, does Paint.NET order them capriciously?

On 19 Sep 2018 02:21:14 GMT, Arlen Holder wrote:

What is the trick to make Windows just open the files in the correct order?


I even tried the control key, selecting the files in order of 001, 002,
003, etc., and they _still_ came up in Paint.NET in the wrong order.

What's the trick to getting Paint.NET to edit files in the desired order?
  #4  
Old September 19th 18, 05:52 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 7,832
Default Why when I select pictures 1 to 10, does Paint.NET order themcapriciously?

Arlen Holder wrote:
On 19 Sep 2018 02:15:03 GMT, Arlen Holder wrote:

NOTE: It's not a big deal with 9 files, but try this set of 400!

Why when I select pictures 1 to 10, does Paint.NET order them capriciously?


I forgot to screenshot the set of 400 files I wish to edit in order.
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=8140464numbertest05.jpg

It's a waste of time to have to reorder them in Paint.NET.

What is the trick to make Windows just open the files in the correct order?


I did a quick check here with the in-box "Paint",
selected just four files...

and they don't show up in a consistent order.

First I tried disabling Windows Defender realtime protection,
and the order was still random. It's not like a computer,
to do that. I could accept "out of numeric order, but
consistent from run to run". But finding different orders
from one run to the next, that's a puzzle. And it's a puzzle
because there is likely a single thread of execution
opening the files. So somehow they're arriving at a queue
inside the system, randomly. How is that possible ?

*******

If you use the batch command in Irfanview, and you select
1..10 for files, it lists them 10,1,2,3...9. The last item
in the extended selection, becomes the first item in the
list. But at least that behavior is consistent from run
to run. It always seems to do that (inside the tool).

If you want consistency, you might have to batch process
things.

In IrfanView, you can also try crafting the extended selection
outside the tool (in Notepad), then paste it into the open
dialog, and see if that helps process them in a desired order.

*******

Unless the program has a macro recorder, and you're using a macro,
opening 400 windows one at a time, and mousing the image to death,
is nuts.

That's why we have IrfanView, NetPBM/PBMPlus. The latter
examples there, allow piping commands to one another, to
do simple things like crop and convert to a new image format.

Maybe those 400 images are your vacation photos,
but that's a hell of a lot of edits to do, even with
a macro. I've scanned a 50 page document (a "do not copy"
document) from work, and processed that, and even that
job was nuts, and I swore I'd never do one of those
again. I was a lather of sweat when I was finished.
"Boring repetitive operations are boring."

Paul
  #5  
Old September 19th 18, 06:35 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Arlen Holder
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Posts: 466
Default Why when I select pictures 1 to 10, does Paint.NET order them capriciously?

On 18 Sep 2018 21:52:37 GMT, Paul wrote:

I did a quick check here with the in-box "Paint",
selected just four files...

and they don't show up in a consistent order.


Thanks for confirming that the files don't show up in the desired order in
your tests, which, helpfully, knocks out a lot of variables (like is it
only Paint.NET - which it's not).

Even if I physically select the files, one by one, holding down the control
key, they _still_ show up in variable order.

The files in this particular case were nine screenshots, but my experience
over the years is that it doesn't matter what files I open as a group.

Long ago I tried to set the time stamps, and the file names, but in all
cases, the files shows up in a capricious order.

There _must_ be a reason for this.
Hence, there must be a simple solution.

But what?
First I tried disabling Windows Defender realtime protection,


That's a good test, but I'm not using any antivirus that I can remember.
I had malwarebytes but it expired a while ago.
(Maybe it's mad at me for not paying.)

If you want consistency, you might have to batch process
things.


I prefer to figure out, somehow, WHY the file order is capricious.
Once we know why, we can figure out how to solve it.

Unless the program has a macro recorder, and you're using a macro,
opening 400 windows one at a time, and mousing the image to death,
is nuts.


Actually, I misspoke about the 400 files as those are the *test* files.
They're all the same file which were created in batch by Irfanview.

I often edit a series of a dozen or more files since, like you Paul, I like
to prove that I always speak facts - where a screenshot is pretty good
proof of facts.

Too many times we get morons like nospam who just make everything up, where
they can never come up with a single screenshot of what they "say" they can
do (truth be told, they're always lying).

Unlike morons like nopsam, I like to help people and to do that you need to
point out the little details, and also I like to prove I did what I say I
did, so I often have to add text to screenshots, to point out the
specifics.

It's a waste of time to have to re-order the screenshots every time.

Certainly there must be a REASON why Windows is capriciously opening files.
But what?
  #6  
Old September 19th 18, 08:15 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Arlen Holder
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Posts: 466
Default Why when I select pictures 1 to 10, does Paint.NET order them capriciously?

On 19 Sep 2018 05:35:46 GMT, Arlen Holder wrote:

Certainly there must be a REASON why Windows is capriciously opening files.
But what?


As a test, which failed, I installed Fast Stone Image Viewer version 6.4
http://www.fastone.org/FSViewerDownload.htm

I selected a dozen files named with numbers on the end
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=1623177faststone002.png

The good news is they opened in the expected numerical order in FastStone
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=9848098faststone001.png

Why does FastStone work as expected, but not Paint.NET nor Paint?

Unfortunately, I've been editing screenshots for decades where nothing
comes close to Paint.NET for DYNAMIC editing of curved arrows, bounding
boxes, and text so even though I hate NET Framework, I'm stuck editing with
Paint.NET because nothing is anywhere near close (not even Pinta).

Trying to get FastStone to feed the files in order to Paint.NET
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2153814fastone001.png

I hit FastStone: Edit Edit with External Program Add/Remove Programs
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=1224536fastone002.png

I hit "Add", and found the Paint.NET executable, and hit "OK", "OK".
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=1886841fastone003.png

I pressed "control+a" inside of FastStone:
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=3734808fastone004.png

Then FastStone: Edit Edit with External Program PaintDotNet (E)
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2563105fastone005.png

Unfortunately, that only edited a single file, and not the selected set.
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=5840435fastone006.png

So that was a bust.

If we could figure out why Paint and Paint.NET get the file order
capriciously, we could begin to solve that pesky problem.
  #7  
Old September 19th 18, 11:09 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Eric Stevens
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Posts: 293
Default Why when I select pictures 1 to 10, does Paint.NET order them capriciously?

On Wed, 19 Sep 2018 02:15:03 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder
wrote:

Why when I select pictures 1 to 10, does Paint.NET order them capriciously?

Knowing Microsoft orders files funny when you name then file1 or file01, I
named a bunch of screenshots ant001, ant002, ... ant009 using Irfanview
batch renaming commands.

In Windows file explorer, I selected the first file ant001:
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=686...mbertest01.jpg

And then held down the shift key to select the last file, ant009, which
selects all nine files.
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=890...mbertest02.jpg

I right click on any one of them to "Edit with Paint.NET":
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=700...mbertest03.jpg

But when Paint.NET comes up, they're in a seemingly capricious order.
ant008, ant005, ant003, ant006, ant009, ant004, ant002, and007, and001
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=731...mbertest04.jpg

This capricious ordering happens day in and day out, no matter what, which
makes sequential screenshot editing a pain for no good reason (AFAIK).

Since I wish to edit them in sequence to document an Android to iOS file
transfer, I have to manually reorder them within Paint.NET.

What trick am I missing for loading them into Paint.NET in correct order?

NOTE: It's not a big deal with 9 files, but try this set of 400!

Why when I select pictures 1 to 10, does Paint.NET order them capriciously?


I have had similar problems with other software. It seems to be a
Windows thing.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #8  
Old September 19th 18, 12:38 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Stephen Wolstenholme[_6_]
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Posts: 206
Default Why when I select pictures 1 to 10, does Paint.NET order them capriciously?

On Wed, 19 Sep 2018 22:09:03 +1200, Eric Stevens
wrote:


Why when I select pictures 1 to 10, does Paint.NET order them capriciously?


I have had similar problems with other software. It seems to be a
Windows thing.


I use ViewNX2 which came with a Nikon camera. It seems to work with
any picture or movie format. If I set it off searching all the C:
drive it finds hundreds of pictures. It displays them in the date
order. If I move the files around, select or edit them with Paint it
still displays in the same order as before so I get confused.

Steve
--
http://www.npsnn.com

  #9  
Old September 19th 18, 02:49 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 7,832
Default Why when I select pictures 1 to 10, does Paint.NET order themcapriciously?

Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
On Wed, 19 Sep 2018 22:09:03 +1200, Eric Stevens
wrote:

Why when I select pictures 1 to 10, does Paint.NET order them capriciously?

I have had similar problems with other software. It seems to be a
Windows thing.


I use ViewNX2 which came with a Nikon camera. It seems to work with
any picture or movie format. If I set it off searching all the C:
drive it finds hundreds of pictures. It displays them in the date
order. If I move the files around, select or edit them with Paint it
still displays in the same order as before so I get confused.

Steve


I think the utilities that are doing a good job of this,
are selecting a "sort" operator in some system call.
And that's why they're in order.

Utilities which do a "bare minimum of lifting" seem
to have a more random orientation. And from a
directory traversal point of view, I don't understand
how the "answer" can come up different on each run.

Paul
  #10  
Old September 19th 18, 02:56 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 7,832
Default Why when I select pictures 1 to 10, does Paint.NET order themcapriciously?

Wolf K wrote:
On 2018-09-18 22:15, Arlen Holder wrote:
[...]
But when Paint.NET comes up, they're in a seemingly capricious order.
ant008, ant005, ant003, ant006, ant009, ant004, ant002, and007, and001
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=731...mbertest04.jpg

[...]

Possibly ordering by date created/modified. See waht you get when you
use command line DIR.


There's some source here, for a simple program to list a directory.

Perhaps you could compile up a copy and test it out, and see whether
FindNextFile is random about things ?

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...in-a-directory

Listing the Files in a Directory - FindFirstFile, FindNextFile

That code doesn't look recursive, in a quick glance, and
indicates in its output whether an item was a FILE
or a DIR.

There are a couple of compilers that come to mind. There
is the MinGW (32 bit) package, which isn't a pain in the ass
to use. There is Visual Studio, but that'll cause hair loss
by the time you get an EXE out of it :-)

Paul
  #11  
Old September 19th 18, 02:59 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Arlen H. Holder
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Posts: 33
Default Why when I select pictures 1 to 10, does Paint.NET order them capriciously?

On Wed, 19 Sep 2018 09:49:02 -0400, Paul wrote:

from a
directory traversal point of view, I don't understand
how the "answer" can come up different on each run.


I agree with Paul's observation that there is something "capricious" going
on, where computers aren't supposed to be doing different things when all
we're doing is selecting files to open in a series.

I don't know if Paul saw the FastStone test, but FastStone is clearly
running a "sort" of some sort.

But why should a sort be needed?
Why would Windows feed files in a capricious order to the editors?
  #12  
Old September 19th 18, 03:15 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Arlen H. Holder
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Posts: 33
Default Why when I select pictures 1 to 10, does Paint.NET order them capriciously?

On Wed, 19 Sep 2018 09:35:53 -0400, Wolf K wrote:

Possibly ordering by date created/modified. See waht you get when you
use command line DIR.


That's a good point that we should look to see the DOS order.
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=4441161testofdos.jpg

C:\tmp\faststonedir
Volume in drive C has no label.
Volume Serial Number is xxxxxxx

Directory of C:\tmp\faststone

09/18/2018 11:19 PM DIR .
09/18/2018 11:19 PM DIR ..
09/18/2018 11:26 PM 121,028 numbertest00.jpg
09/18/2018 07:03 PM 225,585 numbertest01.jpg
09/18/2018 07:05 PM 236,357 numbertest02.jpg
09/18/2018 07:05 PM 265,838 numbertest03.jpg
09/18/2018 07:07 PM 263,806 numbertest04.jpg
09/18/2018 07:17 PM 538,486 numbertest05.jpg
6 File(s) 1,651,100 bytes
2 Dir(s) 767,639,662,592 bytes free

Loading them, en massem into Paint 3D, I get 6 windows:
- bottom window = 00
- next window = 01
- next window = 05
- penultimate window = 02
- top window = 03
Testing a second time, I get a *different* order!
- bottom = 00
- next = 01
- next = 02
- next = 05
- next = 04
- top = 03

Running that through Paint.NET, I get:
- 00
- 02
- 03
- 05
- 01
- 04

Running that a second time through Paint.NET, I get:
- 00
- 03
- 04
- 05
- 01
- 02

One caveat I realized is that it _might_ matter which file we decide to
right click on to open all selected files. And Paul mentioned Windows
Defender, which I think is running on my system (but no AV is running).
  #13  
Old September 19th 18, 05:50 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
pjp[_10_]
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Posts: 1,086
Default Why when I select pictures 1 to 10, does Paint.NET order them capriciously?

In article ,
says...

On 18 Sep 2018 21:52:37 GMT, Paul wrote:

I did a quick check here with the in-box "Paint",
selected just four files...

and they don't show up in a consistent order.


Thanks for confirming that the files don't show up in the desired order in
your tests, which, helpfully, knocks out a lot of variables (like is it
only Paint.NET - which it's not).

Even if I physically select the files, one by one, holding down the control
key, they _still_ show up in variable order.

The files in this particular case were nine screenshots, but my experience
over the years is that it doesn't matter what files I open as a group.

Long ago I tried to set the time stamps, and the file names, but in all
cases, the files shows up in a capricious order.

There _must_ be a reason for this.
Hence, there must be a simple solution.

But what?
First I tried disabling Windows Defender realtime protection,


That's a good test, but I'm not using any antivirus that I can remember.
I had malwarebytes but it expired a while ago.
(Maybe it's mad at me for not paying.)

If you want consistency, you might have to batch process
things.


I prefer to figure out, somehow, WHY the file order is capricious.
Once we know why, we can figure out how to solve it.

Unless the program has a macro recorder, and you're using a macro,
opening 400 windows one at a time, and mousing the image to death,
is nuts.


Actually, I misspoke about the 400 files as those are the *test* files.
They're all the same file which were created in batch by Irfanview.

I often edit a series of a dozen or more files since, like you Paul, I like
to prove that I always speak facts - where a screenshot is pretty good
proof of facts.

Too many times we get morons like nospam who just make everything up, where
they can never come up with a single screenshot of what they "say" they can


The same thing happens just copying/moving files or when using drag-n-
drop to drop a number of them on some program so they open. It's been
like that seems like forever and nothings ever been done about it.
  #14  
Old September 19th 18, 09:10 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Arlen H. Holder
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 33
Default Why when I select pictures 1 to 10, does Paint.NET order them capriciously?

On Wed, 19 Sep 2018 13:50:31 -0300, pjp wrote:

The same thing happens just copying/moving files or when using drag-n-
drop to drop a number of them on some program so they open. It's been
like that seems like forever and nothings ever been done about it.


That's interesting.
It's not like computers to be capricious.
  #15  
Old September 21st 18, 08:16 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 7,832
Default Why when I select pictures 1 to 10, does Paint.NET order themcapriciously?

Paul wrote:
Wolf K wrote:
On 2018-09-18 22:15, Arlen Holder wrote:
[...]
But when Paint.NET comes up, they're in a seemingly capricious order.
ant008, ant005, ant003, ant006, ant009, ant004, ant002, and007, and001
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=731...mbertest04.jpg

[...]

Possibly ordering by date created/modified. See waht you get when you
use command line DIR.


There's some source here, for a simple program to list a directory.

Perhaps you could compile up a copy and test it out, and see whether
FindNextFile is random about things ?

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...in-a-directory


Listing the Files in a Directory - FindFirstFile, FindNextFile

That code doesn't look recursive, in a quick glance, and
indicates in its output whether an item was a FILE
or a DIR.

There are a couple of compilers that come to mind. There
is the MinGW (32 bit) package, which isn't a pain in the ass
to use. There is Visual Studio, but that'll cause hair loss
by the time you get an EXE out of it :-)

Paul


I had a chance to compile up the FindNextFile example, and
while the order of things returned didn't have an order to it,
the order returned each time is the same.

baker
able
cat

On a second invocation

baker
able
cat

So that doesn't hint at that kind of directory
routine being random in what it does.

Paul
 




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