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#1
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After powering on PC daily, its W10 seems to always seem to show :( about it running into a problem...
For a few days, I have been using the client's Intel NUC PC with its W10 b1803
weird issues. Originally, I was asked to look at why its W10 takes so long to start/boot up. It seems to happen on each new day after power it on when it was off for many hours like overnight. I can't seem to reproduce it after it does its scan and repairs. I even tried changing BIOS' date to a day later to see if I could reproduce it. Nope. I wonder why it is always happen daily. Failing hardwares somewhere? In W10, I ran W10's disk checks on both EMMC and SSD, and it found no issues. I know the issues happened on both drives (original small EMMC and cloned bigger SSD). So, I decided to force a chkdsk /r /f on both C: and D: drives outside of W10. C: was quick, but D: took a while especially at 45% with intense light activities that long. After returning to normal W10 session, I checked its Event Logs' Applications section with its filter to show only 1001 event ID (https://winaero.com/blog/how-to-find...n-windows-10/). I exported and uploaded to http://zimage.com/~ant/temp/W10appEventLogs1001.txt. There were lots of chkdsk repairs on both drives, crashes, etc. What do you guys think is happening? -- Quote of the Week: "As a thinker and planner, the ant is the equal of any savage race of men; as a self-educated specialist in several arts she is the superior of any savage race of men; and in one or two high mental qualities she is above the reach of any man..." --Mark Twain Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly. /\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org / / /\ /\ \ http://antfarm.ma.cx. Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail. | |o o| | \ _ / ( ) |
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#2
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After powering on PC daily, its W10 seems to always seem to show
I think you need to urinate in the president's mouth.
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#3
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After powering on PC daily, its W10 seems to always seem to show
On 2/21/2019 4:24 AM, Ant wrote:
For a few days, I have been using the client's Intel NUC PC with its W10 b1803 weird issues. Originally, I was asked to look at why its W10 takes so long to start/boot up. It seems to happen on each new day after power it on when it was off for many hours like overnight. I can't seem to reproduce it after it does its scan and repairs. I even tried changing BIOS' date to a day later to see if I could reproduce it. Nope. I wonder why it is always happen daily. Failing hardwares somewhere? In W10, I ran W10's disk checks on both EMMC and SSD, and it found no issues. I know the issues happened on both drives (original small EMMC and cloned bigger SSD). So, I decided to force a chkdsk /r /f on both C: and D: drives outside of W10. C: was quick, but D: took a while especially at 45% with intense light activities that long. After returning to normal W10 session, I checked its Event Logs' Applications section with its filter to show only 1001 event ID (https://winaero.com/blog/how-to-find...n-windows-10/). I exported and uploaded to http://zimage.com/~ant/temp/W10appEventLogs1001.txt. There were lots of chkdsk repairs on both drives, crashes, etc. What do you guys think is happening? Not sure but I'd consider replacing the motherboard battery since they are relatively cheap. Not that we know the age of the existing battery. I'm sure Paul will have something that will nail it down for you when he gets around to reading the newsgroup. |
#4
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After powering on PC daily, its W10 seems to always seem to show
Ant wrote:
For a few days, I have been using the client's Intel NUC PC with its W10 b1803 weird issues. Originally, I was asked to look at why its W10 takes so long to start/boot up. It seems to happen on each new day after power it on when it was off for many hours like overnight. I can't seem to reproduce it after it does its scan and repairs. I even tried changing BIOS' date to a day later to see if I could reproduce it. Nope. I wonder why it is always happen daily. Failing hardwares somewhere? In W10, I ran W10's disk checks on both EMMC and SSD, and it found no issues. I know the issues happened on both drives (original small EMMC and cloned bigger SSD). So, I decided to force a chkdsk /r /f on both C: and D: drives outside of W10. C: was quick, but D: took a while especially at 45% with intense light activities that long. After returning to normal W10 session, I checked its Event Logs' Applications section with its filter to show only 1001 event ID (https://winaero.com/blog/how-to-find...n-windows-10/). I exported and uploaded to http://zimage.com/~ant/temp/W10appEventLogs1001.txt. There were lots of chkdsk repairs on both drives, crashes, etc. What do you guys think is happening? Is the computer in question near an ionizing radiation source ? What about power quality ? Where the NUC is plugged in, is the power clean ? Could the problem be "injected" noise coming from noisy machinery with inductive spikes ? I see it is scanning a file system at rest. I could understand scanning the C: drive, which is an active partition on each session, and an inproper shutdown (drive isn't flushing properly), could leave orphan this or that. But the distribution of errors is a bit weird. It doesn't look entirely like dirty shutdowns. It's like storage just isn't working properly. Since you have a new SSD and it's being checked too, I'd have to guess that the +5V rail inside the NUC is dirty. And really, if it was that dirty, the PC should be "crash prone" as other things in there could also be affected. I don't think the problem is related to RAM, but it might be. For example, if the RAM area used during CHKDSK was bad, maybe that would cause some false analysis results. But then, if that were true, the scan should have uncovered hundreds of thousands of errors, and the cleanup via CHKDSK would basically "shred" the drive. And the OS would not be able to boot after that. So that's not it. It's just a guess, but I'd have to say either the box is near an ionizing radiation source, or the power is bad at some level. I've had "injected" noise in the computer room here. It's possible for one ATX supply to place switching noise on the AC. Devices sharing a common power strip, especially sensitive devices (like my ADSL2 modem), they can be upset by injected noise flowing right through the power path and into sensitive analog circuits. But if the +5V had that much ripple or spikes on it, you'd think the machine would also be randomly crashing. And you don't seem to be suggesting that in your various posts. It could be a bad Southbridge/PCH. The eMMC, I don't know what bus that is on. Is it on SATA bus ? Is it on PCIe ? I don't know how to figure that out, unless I could find an eMMC datasheet. OK, looking at an eMMC datasheet, it's a parallel data bus running at 52MHz or so. That could be coming off a PCH or SOC. Also, the eMMC runs off 3.3V and the SSD would be running off 5V. It doesn't seem likely that both would have exactly the same power problems. Or, that the analog nature of SATA (low amplitude differential) would have the same error characteristics as a full swing 3.3V digital bus on an eMMC. That leaves ionizing radiation. Or the low odds of having bought *two* bad storage devices based on NAND flash. Or the power conversion inside the NUC is a mess. Replace the SSD (7mm) with a 7mm HDD ? If the SSD was a regular SATA and not a microSATA, maybe that would be a possible test case to run. See if even a HDD has dirty results. "Seagate ST1000LM048 128MB 5400 RPM 7mm $48" https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16822179108 If there was a source of ionizing radiation nearby, it could also cause DRAM errors, and lots of running program errors. If you have a double-conversion UPS handy, try powering the NUC off one of those. Double-conversion UPS don't allow wall power to flow directly to the load. The power is "filtered" through the UPS battery, and converted to "fresh" AC via an inverter. You can get versions of those with sinewave output (rather than stepped sine). Paul |
#5
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After powering on PC daily, its W10 seems to always seem to show :( about it running into a problem...
Overnight, Intel NUC PC (NU06CAY model [can't seem to find anything about it online]? from
2/2017 as shown in https://imgur.com/a/B0enW4H?) went to sleep when I was sleeping. I woke it up and it again got stuck at its Intel NUC's black screen with its spinning animated cursor again. Now, I can wait (going to do that since I need to do other stuff first) or force a power off and on to force a chkdsk. I'll wait and then try a force power off and on later when I'm more awake if it still stuck. It had been over 45 minutes now. Paul wrote: Ant wrote: For a few days, I have been using the client's Intel NUC PC with its W10 b1803 weird issues. Originally, I was asked to look at why its W10 takes so long to start/boot up. It seems to happen on each new day after power it on when it was off for many hours like overnight. I can't seem to reproduce it after it does its scan and repairs. I even tried changing BIOS' date to a day later to see if I could reproduce it. Nope. I wonder why it is always happen daily. Failing hardwares somewhere? In W10, I ran W10's disk checks on both EMMC and SSD, and it found no issues. I know the issues happened on both drives (original small EMMC and cloned bigger SSD). So, I decided to force a chkdsk /r /f on both C: and D: drives outside of W10. C: was quick, but D: took a while especially at 45% with intense light activities that long. After returning to normal W10 session, I checked its Event Logs' Applications section with its filter to show only 1001 event ID (https://winaero.com/blog/how-to-find...n-windows-10/). I exported and uploaded to http://zimage.com/~ant/temp/W10appEventLogs1001.txt. There were lots of chkdsk repairs on both drives, crashes, etc. What do you guys think is happening? Is the computer in question near an ionizing radiation source ? Uh, no? It happen in both my client's office and in my home's room. What about power quality ? Where the NUC is plugged in, is the power clean ? Could the problem be "injected" noise coming from noisy machinery with inductive spikes ? In the client's office, it is an office room. At my home, it is in my room with other computers and electronics. I also have it connected to an APC UPS with my computers so that can't be it? I see it is scanning a file system at rest. I could understand scanning the C: drive, which is an active partition on each session, and an inproper shutdown (drive isn't flushing properly), could leave orphan this or that. OK, so how do I find out and fix it? But the distribution of errors is a bit weird. It doesn't look entirely like dirty shutdowns. It's like storage just isn't working properly. Since you have a new SSD and it's being checked too, I'd have to guess that the +5V rail inside the NUC is dirty. And really, if it was that dirty, the PC should be "crash prone" as other things in there could also be affected. I don't think the problem is related to RAM, but it might be. For example, if the RAM area used during CHKDSK was bad, maybe that would cause some false analysis results. But then, if that were true, the scan should have uncovered hundreds of thousands of errors, and the cleanup via CHKDSK would basically "shred" the drive. And the OS would not be able to boot after that. So that's not it. It's just a guess, but I'd have to say either the box is near an ionizing radiation source, or the power is bad at some level. I've had "injected" noise in the computer room here. It's possible for one ATX supply to place switching noise on the AC. Devices sharing a common power strip, especially sensitive devices (like my ADSL2 modem), they can be upset by injected noise flowing right through the power path and into sensitive analog circuits. But if the +5V had that much ripple or spikes on it, you'd think the machine would also be randomly crashing. And you don't seem to be suggesting that in your various posts. It could be a bad Southbridge/PCH. The eMMC, I don't know what bus that is on. Is it on SATA bus ? Is it on PCIe ? I don't know how to figure that out, unless I could find an eMMC datasheet. OK, looking at an eMMC datasheet, it's a parallel data bus running at 52MHz or so. That could be coming off a PCH or SOC. Also, the eMMC runs off 3.3V and the SSD would be running off 5V. It doesn't seem likely that both would have exactly the same power problems. Or, that the analog nature of SATA (low amplitude differential) would have the same error characteristics as a full swing 3.3V digital bus on an eMMC. That leaves ionizing radiation. Or the low odds of having bought *two* bad storage devices based on NAND flash. Or the power conversion inside the NUC is a mess. Replace the SSD (7mm) with a 7mm HDD ? If the SSD was a regular SATA and not a microSATA, maybe that would be a possible test case to run. See if even a HDD has dirty results. "Seagate ST1000LM048 128MB 5400 RPM 7mm $48" https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16822179108 If there was a source of ionizing radiation nearby, it could also cause DRAM errors, and lots of running program errors. If you have a double-conversion UPS handy, try powering the NUC off one of those. Double-conversion UPS don't allow wall power to flow directly to the load. The power is "filtered" through the UPS battery, and converted to "fresh" AC via an inverter. You can get versions of those with sinewave output (rather than stepped sine). I have an APC UPS APC Back-UPS XS 1500 (model: BX1500G; 865 watts). No beeps from it. This is sure difficult and annoying to figure out what's going on. All I can say this very slow/hanging startup/boot up issue is still there since before assigned to work on this issue. I am going to let the client know that this might be a hardware issue. -- Quote of the Week: "As a thinker and planner, the ant is the equal of any savage race of men; as a self-educated specialist in several arts she is the superior of any savage race of men; and in one or two high mental qualities she is above the reach of any man..." --Mark Twain Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly. /\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org / / /\ /\ \ http://antfarm.ma.cx. Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail. | |o o| | \ _ / ( ) |
#6
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After powering on PC daily, its W10 seems to always seem to show :( about it running into a problem...
I just came back and noticed its video was off (no signal) even though PC was on and had some
blue drive blinks. Huh? Ant wrote: Overnight, Intel NUC PC (NU06CAY model [can't seem to find anything about it online]? from 2/2017 as shown in https://imgur.com/a/B0enW4H?) went to sleep when I was sleeping. I woke it up and it again got stuck at its Intel NUC's black screen with its spinning animated cursor again. Now, I can wait (going to do that since I need to do other stuff first) or force a power off and on to force a chkdsk. I'll wait and then try a force power off and on later when I'm more awake if it still stuck. It had been over 45 minutes now. Paul wrote: Ant wrote: For a few days, I have been using the client's Intel NUC PC with its W10 b1803 weird issues. Originally, I was asked to look at why its W10 takes so long to start/boot up. It seems to happen on each new day after power it on when it was off for many hours like overnight. I can't seem to reproduce it after it does its scan and repairs. I even tried changing BIOS' date to a day later to see if I could reproduce it. Nope. I wonder why it is always happen daily. Failing hardwares somewhere? In W10, I ran W10's disk checks on both EMMC and SSD, and it found no issues. I know the issues happened on both drives (original small EMMC and cloned bigger SSD). So, I decided to force a chkdsk /r /f on both C: and D: drives outside of W10. C: was quick, but D: took a while especially at 45% with intense light activities that long. After returning to normal W10 session, I checked its Event Logs' Applications section with its filter to show only 1001 event ID (https://winaero.com/blog/how-to-find...n-windows-10/). I exported and uploaded to http://zimage.com/~ant/temp/W10appEventLogs1001.txt. There were lots of chkdsk repairs on both drives, crashes, etc. What do you guys think is happening? Is the computer in question near an ionizing radiation source ? Uh, no? It happen in both my client's office and in my home's room. What about power quality ? Where the NUC is plugged in, is the power clean ? Could the problem be "injected" noise coming from noisy machinery with inductive spikes ? In the client's office, it is an office room. At my home, it is in my room with other computers and electronics. I also have it connected to an APC UPS with my computers so that can't be it? I see it is scanning a file system at rest. I could understand scanning the C: drive, which is an active partition on each session, and an inproper shutdown (drive isn't flushing properly), could leave orphan this or that. OK, so how do I find out and fix it? But the distribution of errors is a bit weird. It doesn't look entirely like dirty shutdowns. It's like storage just isn't working properly. Since you have a new SSD and it's being checked too, I'd have to guess that the +5V rail inside the NUC is dirty. And really, if it was that dirty, the PC should be "crash prone" as other things in there could also be affected. I don't think the problem is related to RAM, but it might be. For example, if the RAM area used during CHKDSK was bad, maybe that would cause some false analysis results. But then, if that were true, the scan should have uncovered hundreds of thousands of errors, and the cleanup via CHKDSK would basically "shred" the drive. And the OS would not be able to boot after that. So that's not it. It's just a guess, but I'd have to say either the box is near an ionizing radiation source, or the power is bad at some level. I've had "injected" noise in the computer room here. It's possible for one ATX supply to place switching noise on the AC. Devices sharing a common power strip, especially sensitive devices (like my ADSL2 modem), they can be upset by injected noise flowing right through the power path and into sensitive analog circuits. But if the +5V had that much ripple or spikes on it, you'd think the machine would also be randomly crashing. And you don't seem to be suggesting that in your various posts. It could be a bad Southbridge/PCH. The eMMC, I don't know what bus that is on. Is it on SATA bus ? Is it on PCIe ? I don't know how to figure that out, unless I could find an eMMC datasheet. OK, looking at an eMMC datasheet, it's a parallel data bus running at 52MHz or so. That could be coming off a PCH or SOC. Also, the eMMC runs off 3.3V and the SSD would be running off 5V. It doesn't seem likely that both would have exactly the same power problems. Or, that the analog nature of SATA (low amplitude differential) would have the same error characteristics as a full swing 3.3V digital bus on an eMMC. That leaves ionizing radiation. Or the low odds of having bought *two* bad storage devices based on NAND flash. Or the power conversion inside the NUC is a mess. Replace the SSD (7mm) with a 7mm HDD ? If the SSD was a regular SATA and not a microSATA, maybe that would be a possible test case to run. See if even a HDD has dirty results. "Seagate ST1000LM048 128MB 5400 RPM 7mm $48" https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16822179108 If there was a source of ionizing radiation nearby, it could also cause DRAM errors, and lots of running program errors. If you have a double-conversion UPS handy, try powering the NUC off one of those. Double-conversion UPS don't allow wall power to flow directly to the load. The power is "filtered" through the UPS battery, and converted to "fresh" AC via an inverter. You can get versions of those with sinewave output (rather than stepped sine). I have an APC UPS APC Back-UPS XS 1500 (model: BX1500G; 865 watts). No beeps from it. This is sure difficult and annoying to figure out what's going on. All I can say this very slow/hanging startup/boot up issue is still there since before assigned to work on this issue. I am going to let the client know that this might be a hardware issue. -- Quote of the Week: "As a thinker and planner, the ant is the equal of any savage race of men; as a self-educated specialist in several arts she is the superior of any savage race of men; and in one or two high mental qualities she is above the reach of any man..." --Mark Twain Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly. /\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org / / /\ /\ \ http://antfarm.ma.cx. Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail. | |o o| | \ _ / ( ) |
#7
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After powering on PC daily, its W10 seems to always seem to show :( about it running into a problem...
Still no video and disk activities seems to have stopped. Even its USB keyboard lights are not
toggling when I touch its caps lock, num lock, and scroll lock keys. I think it hard crashed again. I will resume on it later. I need to do other non-IT stuff. Ant wrote: I just came back and noticed its video was off (no signal) even though PC was on and had some blue drive blinks. Huh? Ant wrote: Overnight, Intel NUC PC (NU06CAY model [can't seem to find anything about it online]? from 2/2017 as shown in https://imgur.com/a/B0enW4H?) went to sleep when I was sleeping. I woke it up and it again got stuck at its Intel NUC's black screen with its spinning animated cursor again. Now, I can wait (going to do that since I need to do other stuff first) or force a power off and on to force a chkdsk. I'll wait and then try a force power off and on later when I'm more awake if it still stuck. It had been over 45 minutes now. Paul wrote: Ant wrote: For a few days, I have been using the client's Intel NUC PC with its W10 b1803 weird issues. Originally, I was asked to look at why its W10 takes so long to start/boot up. It seems to happen on each new day after power it on when it was off for many hours like overnight. I can't seem to reproduce it after it does its scan and repairs. I even tried changing BIOS' date to a day later to see if I could reproduce it. Nope. I wonder why it is always happen daily. Failing hardwares somewhere? In W10, I ran W10's disk checks on both EMMC and SSD, and it found no issues. I know the issues happened on both drives (original small EMMC and cloned bigger SSD). So, I decided to force a chkdsk /r /f on both C: and D: drives outside of W10. C: was quick, but D: took a while especially at 45% with intense light activities that long. After returning to normal W10 session, I checked its Event Logs' Applications section with its filter to show only 1001 event ID (https://winaero.com/blog/how-to-find...n-windows-10/). I exported and uploaded to http://zimage.com/~ant/temp/W10appEventLogs1001.txt. There were lots of chkdsk repairs on both drives, crashes, etc. What do you guys think is happening? Is the computer in question near an ionizing radiation source ? Uh, no? It happen in both my client's office and in my home's room. What about power quality ? Where the NUC is plugged in, is the power clean ? Could the problem be "injected" noise coming from noisy machinery with inductive spikes ? In the client's office, it is an office room. At my home, it is in my room with other computers and electronics. I also have it connected to an APC UPS with my computers so that can't be it? I see it is scanning a file system at rest. I could understand scanning the C: drive, which is an active partition on each session, and an inproper shutdown (drive isn't flushing properly), could leave orphan this or that. OK, so how do I find out and fix it? But the distribution of errors is a bit weird. It doesn't look entirely like dirty shutdowns. It's like storage just isn't working properly. Since you have a new SSD and it's being checked too, I'd have to guess that the +5V rail inside the NUC is dirty. And really, if it was that dirty, the PC should be "crash prone" as other things in there could also be affected. I don't think the problem is related to RAM, but it might be. For example, if the RAM area used during CHKDSK was bad, maybe that would cause some false analysis results. But then, if that were true, the scan should have uncovered hundreds of thousands of errors, and the cleanup via CHKDSK would basically "shred" the drive. And the OS would not be able to boot after that. So that's not it. It's just a guess, but I'd have to say either the box is near an ionizing radiation source, or the power is bad at some level. I've had "injected" noise in the computer room here. It's possible for one ATX supply to place switching noise on the AC. Devices sharing a common power strip, especially sensitive devices (like my ADSL2 modem), they can be upset by injected noise flowing right through the power path and into sensitive analog circuits. But if the +5V had that much ripple or spikes on it, you'd think the machine would also be randomly crashing. And you don't seem to be suggesting that in your various posts. It could be a bad Southbridge/PCH. The eMMC, I don't know what bus that is on. Is it on SATA bus ? Is it on PCIe ? I don't know how to figure that out, unless I could find an eMMC datasheet. OK, looking at an eMMC datasheet, it's a parallel data bus running at 52MHz or so. That could be coming off a PCH or SOC. Also, the eMMC runs off 3.3V and the SSD would be running off 5V. It doesn't seem likely that both would have exactly the same power problems. Or, that the analog nature of SATA (low amplitude differential) would have the same error characteristics as a full swing 3.3V digital bus on an eMMC. That leaves ionizing radiation. Or the low odds of having bought *two* bad storage devices based on NAND flash. Or the power conversion inside the NUC is a mess. Replace the SSD (7mm) with a 7mm HDD ? If the SSD was a regular SATA and not a microSATA, maybe that would be a possible test case to run. See if even a HDD has dirty results. "Seagate ST1000LM048 128MB 5400 RPM 7mm $48" https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16822179108 If there was a source of ionizing radiation nearby, it could also cause DRAM errors, and lots of running program errors. If you have a double-conversion UPS handy, try powering the NUC off one of those. Double-conversion UPS don't allow wall power to flow directly to the load. The power is "filtered" through the UPS battery, and converted to "fresh" AC via an inverter. You can get versions of those with sinewave output (rather than stepped sine). I have an APC UPS APC Back-UPS XS 1500 (model: BX1500G; 865 watts). No beeps from it. This is sure difficult and annoying to figure out what's going on. All I can say this very slow/hanging startup/boot up issue is still there since before assigned to work on this issue. I am going to let the client know that this might be a hardware issue. -- Quote of the Week: "As a thinker and planner, the ant is the equal of any savage race of men; as a self-educated specialist in several arts she is the superior of any savage race of men; and in one or two high mental qualities she is above the reach of any man..." --Mark Twain Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly. /\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org / / /\ /\ \ http://antfarm.ma.cx. Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail. | |o o| | \ _ / ( ) |
#8
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After powering on PC daily, its W10 seems to always seem to show :( about it running into a problem...
I came back, and still got no video and input responses. I did notice its power light was
orange/amber instead of blue. https://www.intel.com/content/www/us...-mini-pcs.html seems to say this is sleep. I was forced to power off and on, run its scan and repair automatically, and boot up fast again (for now). I'm thinking of clean installing W10 into the 120 GB SSD even though I don't have the original medias from client for his drivers, softwares, etc. Ant wrote: Still no video and disk activities seems to have stopped. Even its USB keyboard lights are not toggling when I touch its caps lock, num lock, and scroll lock keys. I think it hard crashed again. I will resume on it later. I need to do other non-IT stuff. Ant wrote: I just came back and noticed its video was off (no signal) even though PC was on and had some blue drive blinks. Huh? Ant wrote: Overnight, Intel NUC PC (NU06CAY model [can't seem to find anything about it online]? from 2/2017 as shown in https://imgur.com/a/B0enW4H?) went to sleep when I was sleeping. I woke it up and it again got stuck at its Intel NUC's black screen with its spinning animated cursor again. Now, I can wait (going to do that since I need to do other stuff first) or force a power off and on to force a chkdsk. I'll wait and then try a force power off and on later when I'm more awake if it still stuck. It had been over 45 minutes now. Paul wrote: Ant wrote: For a few days, I have been using the client's Intel NUC PC with its W10 b1803 weird issues. Originally, I was asked to look at why its W10 takes so long to start/boot up. It seems to happen on each new day after power it on when it was off for many hours like overnight. I can't seem to reproduce it after it does its scan and repairs. I even tried changing BIOS' date to a day later to see if I could reproduce it. Nope. I wonder why it is always happen daily. Failing hardwares somewhere? In W10, I ran W10's disk checks on both EMMC and SSD, and it found no issues. I know the issues happened on both drives (original small EMMC and cloned bigger SSD). So, I decided to force a chkdsk /r /f on both C: and D: drives outside of W10. C: was quick, but D: took a while especially at 45% with intense light activities that long. After returning to normal W10 session, I checked its Event Logs' Applications section with its filter to show only 1001 event ID (https://winaero.com/blog/how-to-find...n-windows-10/). I exported and uploaded to http://zimage.com/~ant/temp/W10appEventLogs1001.txt. There were lots of chkdsk repairs on both drives, crashes, etc. What do you guys think is happening? Is the computer in question near an ionizing radiation source ? Uh, no? It happen in both my client's office and in my home's room. What about power quality ? Where the NUC is plugged in, is the power clean ? Could the problem be "injected" noise coming from noisy machinery with inductive spikes ? In the client's office, it is an office room. At my home, it is in my room with other computers and electronics. I also have it connected to an APC UPS with my computers so that can't be it? I see it is scanning a file system at rest. I could understand scanning the C: drive, which is an active partition on each session, and an inproper shutdown (drive isn't flushing properly), could leave orphan this or that. OK, so how do I find out and fix it? But the distribution of errors is a bit weird. It doesn't look entirely like dirty shutdowns. It's like storage just isn't working properly. Since you have a new SSD and it's being checked too, I'd have to guess that the +5V rail inside the NUC is dirty. And really, if it was that dirty, the PC should be "crash prone" as other things in there could also be affected. I don't think the problem is related to RAM, but it might be. For example, if the RAM area used during CHKDSK was bad, maybe that would cause some false analysis results. But then, if that were true, the scan should have uncovered hundreds of thousands of errors, and the cleanup via CHKDSK would basically "shred" the drive. And the OS would not be able to boot after that. So that's not it. It's just a guess, but I'd have to say either the box is near an ionizing radiation source, or the power is bad at some level. I've had "injected" noise in the computer room here. It's possible for one ATX supply to place switching noise on the AC. Devices sharing a common power strip, especially sensitive devices (like my ADSL2 modem), they can be upset by injected noise flowing right through the power path and into sensitive analog circuits. But if the +5V had that much ripple or spikes on it, you'd think the machine would also be randomly crashing. And you don't seem to be suggesting that in your various posts. It could be a bad Southbridge/PCH. The eMMC, I don't know what bus that is on. Is it on SATA bus ? Is it on PCIe ? I don't know how to figure that out, unless I could find an eMMC datasheet. OK, looking at an eMMC datasheet, it's a parallel data bus running at 52MHz or so. That could be coming off a PCH or SOC. Also, the eMMC runs off 3.3V and the SSD would be running off 5V. It doesn't seem likely that both would have exactly the same power problems. Or, that the analog nature of SATA (low amplitude differential) would have the same error characteristics as a full swing 3.3V digital bus on an eMMC. That leaves ionizing radiation. Or the low odds of having bought *two* bad storage devices based on NAND flash. Or the power conversion inside the NUC is a mess. Replace the SSD (7mm) with a 7mm HDD ? If the SSD was a regular SATA and not a microSATA, maybe that would be a possible test case to run. See if even a HDD has dirty results. "Seagate ST1000LM048 128MB 5400 RPM 7mm $48" https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16822179108 If there was a source of ionizing radiation nearby, it could also cause DRAM errors, and lots of running program errors. If you have a double-conversion UPS handy, try powering the NUC off one of those. Double-conversion UPS don't allow wall power to flow directly to the load. The power is "filtered" through the UPS battery, and converted to "fresh" AC via an inverter. You can get versions of those with sinewave output (rather than stepped sine). I have an APC UPS APC Back-UPS XS 1500 (model: BX1500G; 865 watts). No beeps from it. This is sure difficult and annoying to figure out what's going on. All I can say this very slow/hanging startup/boot up issue is still there since before assigned to work on this issue. I am going to let the client know that this might be a hardware issue. -- Quote of the Week: "As a thinker and planner, the ant is the equal of any savage race of men; as a self-educated specialist in several arts she is the superior of any savage race of men; and in one or two high mental qualities she is above the reach of any man..." --Mark Twain Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly. /\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org / / /\ /\ \ http://antfarm.ma.cx. Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail. | |o o| | \ _ / ( ) |
#9
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After powering on PC daily, its W10 seems to always seem to show
On 21/02/2019 18:15, Ant wrote:
I'm thinking of clean installing W10 into the 120 GB SSD even though I don't have the original medias from client for his drivers, softwares, etc. How long does it take to think about this? Why not just do it and let Windows installation finds the drivers for you. It is a clean install so what have you got to lose? It takes not more that 30 minutes to do this. You guys need to be practical in life and don't waste time thinking about things when it can be done almost immediately. Chinese & Indians have taken over the technologies because they just do it and they also started from base zero so they didn't have anything to lose!!!!! -- With over 950 million devices now running Windows 10, customer satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows. |
#10
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After powering on PC daily, its W10 seems to always seem to show :( about it running into a problem...
???? Good Guy ???? wrote:
On 21/02/2019 18:15, Ant wrote: I'm thinking of clean installing W10 into the 120 GB SSD even though I don't have the original medias from client for his drivers, softwares, etc. How long does it take to think about this? Why not just do it and let Windows installation finds the drivers for you. It is a clean install so what have you got to lose? It takes not more that 30 minutes to do this. .... I just noticed my downloaded W10 v1809 installer file, through Media Creation Tool, got lost (0 byte) from overnight download. Ugh. I am going to assume chkdsk found it broken. Now, I need to redownload that huge file again! -- Quote of the Week: "As a thinker and planner, the ant is the equal of any savage race of men; as a self-educated specialist in several arts she is the superior of any savage race of men; and in one or two high mental qualities she is above the reach of any man..." --Mark Twain Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly. /\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org / / /\ /\ \ http://antfarm.ma.cx. Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail. | |o o| | \ _ / ( ) |
#11
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After powering on PC daily, its W10 seems to always seem to show
Ant wrote:
???? Good Guy ???? wrote: On 21/02/2019 18:15, Ant wrote: I'm thinking of clean installing W10 into the 120 GB SSD even though I don't have the original medias from client for his drivers, softwares, etc. How long does it take to think about this? Why not just do it and let Windows installation finds the drivers for you. It is a clean install so what have you got to lose? It takes not more that 30 minutes to do this. ... I just noticed my downloaded W10 v1809 installer file, through Media Creation Tool, got lost (0 byte) from overnight download. Ugh. I am going to assume chkdsk found it broken. Now, I need to redownload that huge file again! Do that on your technician machine, not on the NUC. You know your NUC has some sort of storage problem, and neither downloads nor installs are going to be worry free. If you want to make media, make it on a reliable machine first, then visit the "victim" and try your experiments. Paul |
#12
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After powering on PC daily, its W10 seems to always seem to show :( about it running into a problem...
Paul wrote:
Ant wrote: ???? Good Guy ???? wrote: On 21/02/2019 18:15, Ant wrote: I'm thinking of clean installing W10 into the 120 GB SSD even though I don't have the original medias from client for his drivers, softwares, etc. How long does it take to think about this? Why not just do it and let Windows installation finds the drivers for you. It is a clean install so what have you got to lose? It takes not more that 30 minutes to do this. ... I just noticed my downloaded W10 v1809 installer file, through Media Creation Tool, got lost (0 byte) from overnight download. Ugh. I am going to assume chkdsk found it broken. Now, I need to redownload that huge file again! Do that on your technician machine, not on the NUC. You know your NUC has some sort of storage problem, and neither downloads nor installs are going to be worry free. If you want to make media, make it on a reliable machine first, then visit the "victim" and try your experiments. OK. I hope it doesn't mess up my decade old, updated 64-bit W7 HPE SP1 PC. Maybe I can do it in my VM to avoid making a mess. -- Quote of the Week: "As a thinker and planner, the ant is the equal of any savage race of men; as a self-educated specialist in several arts she is the superior of any savage race of men; and in one or two high mental qualities she is above the reach of any man..." --Mark Twain Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly. /\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org / / /\ /\ \ http://antfarm.ma.cx. Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail. | |o o| | \ _ / ( ) |
#13
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After powering on PC daily, its W10 seems to always seem to show
Ant wrote:
Paul wrote: Ant wrote: ???? Good Guy ???? wrote: On 21/02/2019 18:15, Ant wrote: I'm thinking of clean installing W10 into the 120 GB SSD even though I don't have the original medias from client for his drivers, softwares, etc. How long does it take to think about this? Why not just do it and let Windows installation finds the drivers for you. It is a clean install so what have you got to lose? It takes not more that 30 minutes to do this. ... I just noticed my downloaded W10 v1809 installer file, through Media Creation Tool, got lost (0 byte) from overnight download. Ugh. I am going to assume chkdsk found it broken. Now, I need to redownload that huge file again! Do that on your technician machine, not on the NUC. You know your NUC has some sort of storage problem, and neither downloads nor installs are going to be worry free. If you want to make media, make it on a reliable machine first, then visit the "victim" and try your experiments. OK. I hope it doesn't mess up my decade old, updated 64-bit W7 HPE SP1 PC. Maybe I can do it in my VM to avoid making a mess. Note that the very most recent 1809 ISO is bigger than 4GB. *Do not* download to a FAT32 partition :-) (And the reason it is so big today, is because the disc installs 12 different versions of Windows 10. Which in my opinion is ridiculous. They should have put 8 versions on one DVD and 4 related versions on a second DVD.) Paul (who has tried to put a 4GB file on a FAT32, more than once...) |
#14
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After powering on PC daily, its W10 seems to always seem to show :( about it running into a problem...
Paul wrote:
Ant wrote: Paul wrote: Ant wrote: ???? Good Guy ???? wrote: On 21/02/2019 18:15, Ant wrote: I'm thinking of clean installing W10 into the 120 GB SSD even though I don't have the original medias from client for his drivers, softwares, etc. How long does it take to think about this? Why not just do it and let Windows installation finds the drivers for you. It is a clean install so what have you got to lose? It takes not more that 30 minutes to do this. ... I just noticed my downloaded W10 v1809 installer file, through Media Creation Tool, got lost (0 byte) from overnight download. Ugh. I am going to assume chkdsk found it broken. Now, I need to redownload that huge file again! Do that on your technician machine, not on the NUC. You know your NUC has some sort of storage problem, and neither downloads nor installs are going to be worry free. If you want to make media, make it on a reliable machine first, then visit the "victim" and try your experiments. OK. I hope it doesn't mess up my decade old, updated 64-bit W7 HPE SP1 PC. Maybe I can do it in my VM to avoid making a mess. Note that the very most recent 1809 ISO is bigger than 4GB. *Do not* download to a FAT32 partition :-) (And the reason it is so big today, is because the disc installs 12 different versions of Windows 10. Which in my opinion is ridiculous. They should have put 8 versions on one DVD and 4 related versions on a second DVD.) Paul (who has tried to put a 4GB file on a FAT32, more than once...) Wow. I don't even have an external DVD drive so it has to be done on USB flash sticks or local drive. -- Quote of the Week: "As a thinker and planner, the ant is the equal of any savage race of men; as a self-educated specialist in several arts she is the superior of any savage race of men; and in one or two high mental qualities she is above the reach of any man..." --Mark Twain Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly. /\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org / / /\ /\ \ http://antfarm.ma.cx. Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail. | |o o| | \ _ / ( ) |
#15
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After powering on PC daily, its W10 seems to always seem to show
Ant wrote:
Paul wrote: Ant wrote: Paul wrote: Ant wrote: ???? Good Guy ???? wrote: On 21/02/2019 18:15, Ant wrote: I'm thinking of clean installing W10 into the 120 GB SSD even though I don't have the original medias from client for his drivers, softwares, etc. How long does it take to think about this? Why not just do it and let Windows installation finds the drivers for you. It is a clean install so what have you got to lose? It takes not more that 30 minutes to do this. ... I just noticed my downloaded W10 v1809 installer file, through Media Creation Tool, got lost (0 byte) from overnight download. Ugh. I am going to assume chkdsk found it broken. Now, I need to redownload that huge file again! Do that on your technician machine, not on the NUC. You know your NUC has some sort of storage problem, and neither downloads nor installs are going to be worry free. If you want to make media, make it on a reliable machine first, then visit the "victim" and try your experiments. OK. I hope it doesn't mess up my decade old, updated 64-bit W7 HPE SP1 PC. Maybe I can do it in my VM to avoid making a mess. Note that the very most recent 1809 ISO is bigger than 4GB. *Do not* download to a FAT32 partition :-) (And the reason it is so big today, is because the disc installs 12 different versions of Windows 10. Which in my opinion is ridiculous. They should have put 8 versions on one DVD and 4 related versions on a second DVD.) Paul (who has tried to put a 4GB file on a FAT32, more than once...) Wow. I don't even have an external DVD drive so it has to be done on USB flash sticks or local drive. For an Upgrade Install, you can just mount the ISO. With the current ISO image being so big now, it no longer fits on a single-layer DVD. You would need a dual layer DVD, even if you had a USB DVD drive to use with the NUC. I only have one blank left of those, and I'm not wasting it on Windows. (There are several versions of 1809 media, and if the size annoys you, you can use Heidoc to get one which is 1GB smaller than the current one.) But for USB keys, the image is still small enough that the program I referred to in my other posting, will work with the 5GB image. You can use this method for your USB key "Clean Install", where the USB key will boot in either legacy or UEFI mode. The first link is the README, the second link the download. http://web.archive.org/web/201201022...usbdvd_dwnTool http://web.archive.org/web/201110052...B-DVD-tool.exe If you operate that tool from a 64-bit OS, it can make 32 bit or 64 bit USB sticks from 32 bit ISO or 64 bit ISO files. If you want to do a UEFI install, the stick must be booted in UEFI mode. This is easiest to see and select, by using the "popup boot key" when booting the NUC. There will be two entries for the USB key in the popup boot, and one entry will have the word "UEFI" by it, as a key to selecting the correct key boot method. When the NUC is POSTing, try pressing the F10 key, as shown here. https://01.org/projectceladon/sites/...ges/splash.jpg The "Windows7-USB-DVD-tool.exe" will take the ISO and put it on a USB stick for you. Example here. https://i.postimg.cc/x1TddGrX/sample...rom-an-ISO.gif And if that doesn't work, you can always try one of the other ISO to USB key softwares. One problem with those, is they're usually geared for Linux ISOs, rather than Windows. Paul |
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