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OT - Remote control of car
I can't help but notice the new car ad stating it's possible to start and stop your engine using your smart phone from anywhere. Now who in their right mind thinks this is a good thing? |
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OT - Remote control of car
pjp wrote:
I can't help but notice the new car ad stating it's possible to start and stop your engine using your smart phone from anywhere. Now who in their right mind thinks this is a good thing? It is stolen so you can immobilize it. It is also locatable on a map to tell police where it is. Offered in GM cars, Buick anyways. -- Zaidy036 |
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OT - Remote control of car
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OT - Remote control of car
On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 15:46:38 -0400, pjp wrote:
I can't help but notice the new car ad stating it's possible to start and stop your engine using your smart phone from anywhere. Now who in their right mind thinks this is a good thing? Just because something can be done doesn't mean that it's a good thing to do. I saw a headline (didn't look at the article) that said just one 'malignant', so-called 'smart' car could be used to cause a lot of those around it to do naughty things - try that with a 60 yo Land Rover! -- Peter. The gods will stay away whilst religions hold sway |
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OT - Remote control of car
In message , Zaidy036
writes: Wolf K wrote: On 2018-03-06 21:15, pjp wrote: In article , says... pjp wrote: I can't help but notice the new car ad stating it's possible to start and stop your engine using your smart phone from anywhere. Now who in their right mind thinks this is a good thing? It is stolen so you can immobilize it. It is also locatable on a map to tell police where it is. Offered in GM cars, Buick anyways. I know what it is and what it does. Just for me I can't imagine ever buying a car with this feature. Anyone can start or stop my vehicle is almost surely to happen. I can easily imagine assholes stopping car, locking doors and windows and watch while someone panics etc. In fact I don't want any car that can be "upgraded" or for that matter controlled in any way "over the air". When I push a button and wait for a self driving vehicle to come into my driveway I won't care about how it communicates with the outside world but while it's "mine" I won't allow any 3rd party control over it. +1 It is interesting to read in these newsgroups about people’s worries but consider that there are millions of GM cars out there and I have never heard of one being hijacked in that way. The GM On-Star system works as Has the remote stop-start facility reached the millions mark yet though? advertised and gives me an insurance deduction and help is available at the push of a button. In fact if I have an accident and do not reply to a voice message from them they will automatically send help to my location. AIUI, though, the only thing that can be remotely done with OnStar - if that - is to turn on the OnStar box, so that the vehicle can be tracked/found; I don't think it can be stopped, can it? Have you ever heard of any car being hijacked remotely? And I am not talking about the man-in-the-middle key fob lock/unlock problem. Can keyfob remote unlocking be disabled? I suppose disconnecting the aerial of the in-car part, or removing power from the receiver altogether (if a separate entity), would do it, but that would also disable the "find car in car park" function, which is useful. -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf "You _are_ Zaphod Beeblebrox? _The_ Zaphod Beeblebrox?" "No, just _a_ Zaphod Beeblebrox. I come in six-packs." (from the link episode) |
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OT - Remote control of car
On 3/6/2018 11:46 AM, pjp wrote:
I can't help but notice the new car ad stating it's possible to start and stop your engine using your smart phone from anywhere. Now who in their right mind thinks this is a good thing? When it's 20 below outside, starting your car and having the heater running for 5 or 10 minutes before you have to go out and jump in it, is a lot more civilized and comfortable than is the alternative. Same story when it's 105 degrees outside. Start the car and let the AC run for a few before you even go out. Very handy feature. |
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OT - Remote control of car
pjp wrote:
In article , says... On 3/6/2018 11:46 AM, pjp wrote: I can't help but notice the new car ad stating it's possible to start and stop your engine using your smart phone from anywhere. Now who in their right mind thinks this is a good thing? When it's 20 below outside, starting your car and having the heater running for 5 or 10 minutes before you have to go out and jump in it, is a lot more civilized and comfortable than is the alternative. Same story when it's 105 degrees outside. Start the car and let the AC run for a few before you even go out. Very handy feature. Already available on a keyfob. No need for a phone, geez to me it's just plain stupid abd fraught with problems for no need. There are a lot more fun things you can do. https://arstechnica.com/information-...-a-new-how-to/ https://arstechnica.com/information-...-way-too-easy/ By having a CAN bus that joins everything together (no air gaps), it's possible to run amok in there. Paul |
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OT - Remote control of car
Zaidy036 news
Wed, 07 Mar 2018 07:33:10 GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote:
Wolf K wrote: On 2018-03-06 21:15, pjp wrote: In article , says... pjp wrote: I can't help but notice the new car ad stating it's possible to start and stop your engine using your smart phone from anywhere. Now who in their right mind thinks this is a good thing? It is stolen so you can immobilize it. It is also locatable on a map to tell police where it is. Offered in GM cars, Buick anyways. I know what it is and what it does. Just for me I can't imagine ever buying a car with this feature. Anyone can start or stop my vehicle is almost surely to happen. I can easily imagine assholes stopping car, locking doors and windows and watch while someone panics etc. In fact I don't want any car that can be "upgraded" or for that matter controlled in any way "over the air". When I push a button and wait for a self driving vehicle to come into my driveway I won't care about how it communicates with the outside world but while it's "mine" I won't allow any 3rd party control over it. +1 It is interesting to read in these newsgroups about people’s worries but consider that there are millions of GM cars out there and I have never heard of one being hijacked in that way. The GM On-Star system works as advertised and gives me an insurance deduction and help is available at the push of a button. In fact if I have an accident and do not reply to a voice message from them they will automatically send help to my location. Have you ever heard of any car being hijacked remotely? And I am not talking about the man-in-the-middle key fob lock/unlock problem. Not only have I heard of it, I've participated in a ride along under controlled conditions. We remotely hax0red (wireless no less) the jeep's engine and driving control systems, and ordered it to the side of the road, without the drivers consent. The jeep complied. Not only were we able to control it's driving, braking and engine, we were able to override any commands the driver of the vehicle was sending it via the steering wheel and the pedals. We weren't the only ones able to do this either, another group brought along reporters and filmed their experiment. And this is one of the pitfalls of drive by wire systems being implemented on your cars and trucks. You aren't in control, the computer is. You're *asking* it to turn the wheel, apply the brakes, increase fuel, etc. But you have no actual physical control over any of those processes as you do on older vehicles. It's all controlled by servo's now; which is under the control of the main computer system; which can be exploited so that while your the driver, you aren't the one driving. https://www.wired.com/2016/08/jeep-h...eration-hacks/ https://it.slashdot.org/story/18/04/...remote-hacking -- To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber stalking, it's highly recommended you visit he https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php ================================================== = Tubby or not tubby, fat is the question! |
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OT - Remote control of car
On 05/18/2018 12:01 AM, Diesel wrote:
[snip] And this is one of the pitfalls of drive by wire systems being implemented on your cars and trucks. You aren't in control, the computer is. You're *asking* it to turn the wheel, apply the brakes, increase fuel, etc. But you have no actual physical control over any of those processes as you do on older vehicles. It's all controlled by servo's now; which is under the control of the main computer system; which can be exploited so that while your the driver, you aren't the one driving. [snip] The same with computer GUIs. YOU aren't doing something, but informing the computer of what you want. -- Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "We created god in our own image and likeness!" -- George Carlin |
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OT - Remote control of car
"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
... On 05/18/2018 12:01 AM, Diesel wrote: [snip] And this is one of the pitfalls of drive by wire systems being implemented on your cars and trucks. You aren't in control, the computer is. You're *asking* it to turn the wheel, apply the brakes, increase fuel, etc. But you have no actual physical control over any of those processes as you do on older vehicles. It's all controlled by servo's now; which is under the control of the main computer system; which can be exploited so that while your the driver, you aren't the one driving. Also you are at the mercy of the integrity of the sensors. I had an 1993 Golf Mark III - the first car I'd had with fuel injection, drive-by-wire and an engine management unit. After it was about 6 months old developed an intermittent fault which caused the engine to die just as I'd started to accelerate out of a junction into traffic - which was more than a little terrifying when it happened. It was in the garage on several occasions while they tried to reproduce the problem and then fix it. Each time it came back "cannot reproduce". One day I got a phone call from an ecstatic technician - "I've found it and I've fixed it". It turned out to be a worn throttle potentiometer which sensed the position of the pedal so the ECU could ask for the required amount of fuel from the injectors: the track was dirty and cracked. The part cost about tuppence and the labour for all the hours of searching was horrendous. Luckily I could produce an invoice from a couple of thousand miles earlier which described a fruitless search for the cause, and this was invaluable in claiming off the warranty, because after first reporting the fault, the car had exceeded its manufacturer's warranty. With rather bad grace, the garage and VW head office decided that faced with incontrovertible evidence that the car had been in warranty when the fault was first reported, they had to pay up. |
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OT - Remote control of car
"Mark Lloyd" wrote
| The same with computer GUIs. YOU aren't doing something, but informing | the computer of what you want. | I don't get the point or the connection there. In an older car, when you steer or press the brake, it's a physical operation. When you step on the accelerator it physically pumps gas into a carburetor. You have physical control over the operation. With a newer car you don't. Maybe you're too young to have ever had to work directly with a carburetor? There's no software. There's a cable. There's no fuel injection. The spark is not computer-controlled. It's sent by a spinning contact inside a distributor cap, which is driven by the crankshaft. It's all mechanical. A computerized car is very different. Not only is there the risk of remote hacking or software failure. In the event of something like a massive solar flare that fries electronics, the older car will probably keep running. The newer car will be ruined and unusable. There are all sorts of issues involved with software running cars. Bad updates can happen. The software can be used as an excuse to ban you from fixing your own car or allowing your mechanic to use 3rd-party parts.... None of that has much of anything to do with using a computer, so I wonder what point you were trying to make. Would you equate modern vs older car with computer vs pencil? There's no useful analogy to be found there. |
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OT - Remote control of car
On 05/18/2018 10:49 AM, NY wrote:
"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message ... On 05/18/2018 12:01 AM, Diesel wrote: [snip] And this is one of the pitfalls of drive by wire systems being implemented on your cars and trucks. You aren't in control, the computer is. You're *asking* it to turn the wheel, apply the brakes, increase fuel, etc. But you have no actual physical control over any of those processes as you do on older vehicles. It's all controlled by servo's now; which is under the control of the main computer system; which can be exploited so that while your the driver, you aren't the one driving. Also you are at the mercy of the integrity of the sensors. I had an 1993 Golf Mark III - the first car I'd had with fuel injection, drive-by-wire and an engine management unit. After it was about 6 months old developed an intermittent fault which caused the engine to die just as I'd started to accelerate out of a junction into traffic - which was more than a little terrifying when it happened. It was in the garage on several occasions while they tried to reproduce the problem and then fix it. Each time it came back "cannot reproduce". One day I got a phone call from an ecstatic technician - "I've found it and I've fixed it". It turned out to be a worn throttle potentiometer which sensed the position of the pedal so the ECU could ask for the required amount of fuel from the injectors: the track was dirty and cracked. The part cost about tuppence and the labour for all the hours of searching was horrendous. Luckily I could produce an invoice from a couple of thousand miles earlier which described a fruitless search for the cause, and this was invaluable in claiming off the warranty, because after first reporting the fault, the car had exceeded its manufacturer's warranty. With rather bad grace, the garage and VW head office decided that faced with incontrovertible evidence that the car had been in warranty when the fault was first reported, they had to pay up. Aren't you lucky! |
#15
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OT - Remote control of car
"Big Al" wrote in message
news Also you are at the mercy of the integrity of the sensors. I had an 1993 Golf Mark III - the first car I'd had with fuel injection, drive-by-wire and an engine management unit. After it was about 6 months old developed an intermittent fault which caused the engine to die just as I'd started to accelerate out of a junction into traffic - which was more than a little terrifying when it happened. It was in the garage on several occasions while they tried to reproduce the problem and then fix it. Each time it came back "cannot reproduce". One day I got a phone call from an ecstatic technician - "I've found it and I've fixed it". It turned out to be a worn throttle potentiometer which sensed the position of the pedal so the ECU could ask for the required amount of fuel from the injectors: the track was dirty and cracked. The part cost about tuppence and the labour for all the hours of searching was horrendous. Luckily I could produce an invoice from a couple of thousand miles earlier which described a fruitless search for the cause, and this was invaluable in claiming off the warranty, because after first reporting the fault, the car had exceeded its manufacturer's warranty. With rather bad grace, the garage and VW head office decided that faced with incontrovertible evidence that the car had been in warranty when the fault was first reported, they had to pay up. Aren't you lucky! I was. I think I was within the mileage limit by something like 50 miles when I first reported the problem and the garage first investigated it. I wasn't so lucky when a wiring loom burnt out. Halfords who had fitted an alarm denied responsibility and VW blamed Halfords. I needed the car so I just had to pay up. If I was getting an alarm fitted now I'd get a main dealer to do it, to keep everything "in house" so there's no demarcation dispute and finding that neither side will accept responsibility. |
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