OT; old CDs and DVDs

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 13 May 2018 02:31:44 -0300, pjp
wrote:

Well I for one am counting on cd's and dvd's to last a very long time if
properly stored. I have literally thousands of them as I make backup
copies of pretty much everything passes thru my hands. I also have a
very very large library of music and videos all backed up onto optical
disk that are backups basicly to the two copies I keep of most of it on
portable/external separate hard disks (movies also get burned as
standard playable dvd). The optical disks are kept stored in cases in a
cabinet except for the most common ones used a lot, e.g. Windows
install/backup disks etc. I validate every disk when burned and I have
yet to have one I can't read ... yet.

I exclusively use writable disks for backup. I find re-writables can't
be trusted and I use them only for my hardware dvd recorder for
"taping' tv. If I want to keep that I rip it using the pc.

+1 on everything you wrote, except that I no longer use CDs,
DVDs are cheaper. I go by brand names, like HP, Philips and Sony and
very, very rarely get a coaster.
[]'

Yes I also use almost ezclusively use dvd's now. I notice when you see
them cd's are now more expensive than dvd's and even dvd's are getting
less common to find with restricted choices. I suspect soon I'll end up
buying 5-10 stacks of 100 just to insure I have them. Real drag I can't
find any more Lightscribe cd's or DVD's anymore. I believe they stopped
making them argh!@#

On Mon, 14 May 2018 17:41:31 -0300, pjp wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 13 May 2018 02:31:44 -0300, pjp
wrote:

Well I for one am counting on cd's and dvd's to last a very long time if
properly stored. I have literally thousands of them as I make backup
copies of pretty much everything passes thru my hands. I also have a
very very large library of music and videos all backed up onto optical
disk that are backups basicly to the two copies I keep of most of it on
portable/external separate hard disks (movies also get burned as
standard playable dvd). The optical disks are kept stored in cases in a
cabinet except for the most common ones used a lot, e.g. Windows
install/backup disks etc. I validate every disk when burned and I have
yet to have one I can't read ... yet.

I exclusively use writable disks for backup. I find re-writables can't
be trusted and I use them only for my hardware dvd recorder for
"taping' tv. If I want to keep that I rip it using the pc.

+1 on everything you wrote, except that I no longer use CDs,
DVDs are cheaper. I go by brand names, like HP, Philips and Sony and
very, very rarely get a coaster.
[]'

Yes I also use almost ezclusively use dvd's now. I notice when you see
them cd's are now more expensive than dvd's and even dvd's are getting
less common to find with restricted choices. I suspect soon I'll end up
buying 5-10 stacks of 100 just to insure I have them. Real drag I can't
find any more Lightscribe cd's or DVD's anymore. I believe they stopped
making them argh!@#

https://www.amazon.com/lightscribe-d...scribe%20discs

--
Wildman GNU/Linux user #557453
The cow died so I don't need your bull!

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 14 May 2018 17:41:31 -0300, pjp wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 13 May 2018 02:31:44 -0300, pjp
wrote:

Well I for one am counting on cd's and dvd's to last a very long time if
properly stored. I have literally thousands of them as I make backup
copies of pretty much everything passes thru my hands. I also have a
very very large library of music and videos all backed up onto optical
disk that are backups basicly to the two copies I keep of most of it on
portable/external separate hard disks (movies also get burned as
standard playable dvd). The optical disks are kept stored in cases in a
cabinet except for the most common ones used a lot, e.g. Windows
install/backup disks etc. I validate every disk when burned and I have
yet to have one I can't read ... yet.

I exclusively use writable disks for backup. I find re-writables can't
be trusted and I use them only for my hardware dvd recorder for
"taping' tv. If I want to keep that I rip it using the pc.

+1 on everything you wrote, except that I no longer use CDs,
DVDs are cheaper. I go by brand names, like HP, Philips and Sony and
very, very rarely get a coaster.
[]'

Yes I also use almost ezclusively use dvd's now. I notice when you see
them cd's are now more expensive than dvd's and even dvd's are getting
less common to find with restricted choices. I suspect soon I'll end up
buying 5-10 stacks of 100 just to insure I have them. Real drag I can't
find any more Lightscribe cd's or DVD's anymore. I believe they stopped
making them argh!@#

https://www.amazon.com/lightscribe-d...scribe%20discs

Prices are rediculous. They used to be like 10% pricier over normal
disks is all.

In message , pjp
writes:
In article ,
says...

On Mon, 14 May 2018 17:41:31 -0300, pjp wrote:

In article ,
says...
[]
+1 on everything you wrote, except that I no longer use CDs,
DVDs are cheaper. I go by brand names, like HP, Philips and Sony and
very, very rarely get a coaster.
[]'
I still use CDs - partly because I have a stack of what was 100 I'm
still working through (at probably less than 1 a year!), and partly
because I feel - though have no supporting evidence - that they're going
to be a little more reliable, being lower density.

Yes I also use almost ezclusively use dvd's now. I notice when you see
them cd's are now more expensive than dvd's and even dvd's are getting
less common to find with restricted choices. I suspect soon I'll end up

Both are certainly getting rarer.

buying 5-10 stacks of 100 just to insure I have them. Real drag I can't
find any more Lightscribe cd's or DVD's anymore. I believe they stopped
making them argh!@#


https://www.amazon.com/lightscribe-d...aps%2Ck%3Aligh
tscribe%20discs

Prices are rediculous. They used to be like 10% pricier over normal
disks is all.

Yes, those are all 2 to 3 dollars _per blank_ - and a fair proportion
(of the first page, anyway - I didn't look further) are marked as
"manufacturer no longer making" or similar.

Although I made sure it had lightscribe ability when I bought the
(external) drive, I've never actually had any such discs.

I wonder: do you think there might be some possibility of a spray-on
coating that could be used for this purpose? (Obviously, it would only
be practical with discs that don't have printed manufacturer details -
although, thinking about it, if it was an opaque coating, it might be
OK.) Maybe a two-part process, the second coating being a "fixer" layer
that prevented degradation (blocked UV or whatever colour the coating
was susceptible to)? I give these ideas freely. [Though it'd be nice if
they ended up being called G6JPG coating (-:]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The web is a blank slate; you can't design technology that is 'good'. You can't
design paper that you can only write good things on. There are no good or evil
tools. You can put an engine in an ambulance or a tank. - Sir Tim Berners-Lee,
Radio Times 2009-Jan-30 to -Feb-5.

In message , Wolf K
writes:
On 2018-05-14 22:04, pjp wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Mon, 14 May 2018 17:41:31 -0300, pjp wrote:

[]
buying 5-10 stacks of 100 just to insure I have them. Real drag I can't
find any more Lightscribe cd's or DVD's anymore. I believe they stopped
making them argh!@#


https://www.amazon.com/lightscribe-d...Aaps%2Ck%3Alig
htscribe%20discs
Prices are rediculous. They used to be like 10% pricier over normal
disks is all.

Prices in part are based on market size. Lightscribe is a niche market.
Smaller market == larger cost per unit made, is all. It never caught on
because you have to have a specialised CD/DVD writer.


Yes, but there came a point where the majority of drives _did_ have the
capability. (I don't know if it has reverted now. Certainly the above
link included a couple of drives on the first page.) I suspect nowadays
the problem would be finding the relevant label design/drive driver
softwares, to run on current OSs (of course, the drives tended not to
come with any CD), though I haven't actually looked.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

the plural of 'anecdote' is not 'evidence'. Professor Edzart Ernst, prudential
magazine, AUTUMN 2006, p. 13.

On 05/15/2018 09:26 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Wolf K
writes:
On 2018-05-14 22:04, pjp wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Mon, 14 May 2018 17:41:31 -0300, pjp wrote:

[]
buying 5-10 stacks of 100 just to insure I have them. Real drag I
can't
find any more Lightscribe cd's or DVD's anymore. I believe they
stopped
making them argh!@#


https://www.amazon.com/lightscribe-d...Aaps%2Ck%3Alig
htscribe%20discs
Â*Prices are rediculous. They used to be like 10% pricier over normal
disks is all.

Prices in part are based on market size. Lightscribe is a niche
market. Smaller market == larger cost per unit made, is all. It never
caught on because you have to have a specialised CD/DVD writer.


Yes, but there came a point where the majority of drives _did_ have the
capability. (I don't know if it has reverted now. Certainly the above
link included a couple of drives on the first page.) I suspect nowadays
the problem would be finding the relevant label design/drive driver
softwares, to run on current OSs (of course, the drives tended not to
come with any CD), though I haven't actually looked.

I'm kinda glad I went to printable CDs DVDs. It becomes a function of
the printer and not the drive and my Canon does it great.

On Tue, 15 May 2018 13:34:34 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

I wonder: do you think there might be some possibility of a spray-on
coating that could be used for this purpose? (Obviously, it would only
be practical with discs that don't have printed manufacturer details -
although, thinking about it, if it was an opaque coating, it might be
OK.) Maybe a two-part process, the second coating being a "fixer" layer
that prevented degradation (blocked UV or whatever colour the coating
was susceptible to)? I give these ideas freely. [Though it'd be nice if
they ended up being called G6JPG coating (-:]

John, you already have a file extension that uses your initials, jpg,
and now you want a coating, too? Sheesh. Spread it around a little. ;-)

--

Char Jackson

In message , Char Jackson
writes:
On Tue, 15 May 2018 13:34:34 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

(LightScribe)

I wonder: do you think there might be some possibility of a spray-on
coating that could be used for this purpose? (Obviously, it would only
be practical with discs that don't have printed manufacturer details -
although, thinking about it, if it was an opaque coating, it might be
OK.) Maybe a two-part process, the second coating being a "fixer" layer
that prevented degradation (blocked UV or whatever colour the coating
was susceptible to)? I give these ideas freely. [Though it'd be nice if
they ended up being called G6JPG coating (-:]

John, you already have a file extension that uses your initials, jpg,
and now you want a coating, too? Sheesh. Spread it around a little. ;-)

(-:

(I had the initials before the Joint Picture [Experts] Group was a
twinkle in anybody's eye!)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

aibohphobia, n., The fear of palindromes.

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

Maybe a two-part process, the second coating being a "fixer" layer
that prevented degradation (blocked UV or whatever colour the coating
was susceptible to)? I give these ideas freely. [Though it'd be nice if
they ended up being called G6JPG coating (-:]

Wouldn't it be better to apply this coating to your windows ?

That will stop the UV.

Or put your DVDs in a cake tin :-)

Some of the optical media, is actually chemically unstable,
due to poor practices at the factory. And all your attention
to detail would not save the recordings on it.

*******

To give an example of how manufacturers screw up, some
company made "pink LEDs". Only trouble was, on the prototypes
(available in small quantities), the chemical that
makes the pink light, was unstable, and would
"bleach out" after only 24 hours of runtime. You would
think they would have noticed this during testing.

Paul

Wolf K wrote:
On 2018-05-14 22:04, pjp wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Mon, 14 May 2018 17:41:31 -0300, pjp wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 13 May 2018 02:31:44 -0300, pjp
wrote:

Well I for one am counting on cd's and dvd's to last a very long
time if
properly stored. I have literally thousands of them as I make backup
copies of pretty much everything passes thru my hands. I also have a
very very large library of music and videos all backed up onto
optical
disk that are backups basicly to the two copies I keep of most of
it on
portable/external separate hard disks (movies also get burned as
standard playable dvd). The optical disks are kept stored in cases
in a
cabinet except for the most common ones used a lot, e.g. Windows
install/backup disks etc. I validate every disk when burned and I
have
yet to have one I can't read ... yet.

I exclusively use writable disks for backup. I find re-writables
can't
be trusted and I use them only for my hardware dvd recorder for
"taping' tv. If I want to keep that I rip it using the pc.

+1 on everything you wrote, except that I no longer use CDs,
DVDs are cheaper. I go by brand names, like HP, Philips and Sony and
very, very rarely get a coaster.
[]'

Yes I also use almost ezclusively use dvd's now. I notice when you see
them cd's are now more expensive than dvd's and even dvd's are getting
less common to find with restricted choices. I suspect soon I'll end up
buying 5-10 stacks of 100 just to insure I have them. Real drag I can't
find any more Lightscribe cd's or DVD's anymore. I believe they stopped
making them argh!@#

https://www.amazon.com/lightscribe-d...scribe%20discs


Prices are rediculous. They used to be like 10% pricier over normal
disks is all.

Prices in part are based on market size. Lightscribe is a niche market.
Smaller market == larger cost per unit made, is all. It never caught on
because you have to have a specialised CD/DVD writer.

It's worse than that. The "owner" of LightScribe has exited
the market. It's probably used under license, and who knows
what licenses are still valid. It's a supply problem, brought
on by "legal details".

HP should hold some key patents on LightScribe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightscribe

http://www8.hp.com/us/en/hp-news/pre...html?id=171639

"HP already has several formal IP licensing efforts underway. They include:

* LightScribe, a technology that uses standard optical drives
to print labels on CDs and DVDs;

* DVD+RW, a format for writeable DVDs;
"

In business, "caught on" hardly matters. It's the per-unit
cost that determine the life or death of ideas. If adding
LightScribe required paying a $0.01 royalty, the technology
would disappear over night. Companies aren't even willing
to "do the math" and figure out the value proposition,
they are that adverse to licensing fees. This is why
DisplayPort was invented, because nobody wanted to pay
for HDMI. This is why Firewire disappeared, because there
was a licensing fee, whereas I don't think USB has a fee
(to the best of my knowledge).

To give an example, my company held patents, and one (unnamed)
company refused to pay around $2 million owing. We had to
chase them through the courts. The only problem with the
idea was, there could have been half a billion dollars
worth of business blocked by this "legal snit", and
a project I was working on was canceled, because the
company in question was the sole source of the key
parts for what I was building. People will go to
extra-ordinary nonsensical lengths, to avoid paying
a royalty... to anyone.

"All this legal stuff sucks... he said"

Paul

In message , Paul
writes:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

Maybe a two-part process, the second coating being a "fixer" layer
that prevented degradation (blocked UV or whatever colour the coating
was susceptible to)? I give these ideas freely. [Though it'd be nice
if they ended up being called G6JPG coating (-:]

Wouldn't it be better to apply this coating to your windows ?

That will stop the UV.

Or put your DVDs in a cake tin :-)

Some of the optical media, is actually chemically unstable,
due to poor practices at the factory. And all your attention
to detail would not save the recordings on it.

I was only suggesting it for the legend side, not the data side - as an
alternative to lightscribe.

*******

To give an example of how manufacturers screw up, some
company made "pink LEDs". Only trouble was, on the prototypes
(available in small quantities), the chemical that
makes the pink light, was unstable, and would
"bleach out" after only 24 hours of runtime. You would
think they would have noticed this during testing.

Paul

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

I use science as my model here. We will crawl toward the truth without ever
knowing if we are all the way there. - Scott Adams, 2015-3-20

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Paul
writes:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

Maybe a two-part process, the second coating being a "fixer" layer
that prevented degradation (blocked UV or whatever colour the coating
was susceptible to)? I give these ideas freely. [Though it'd be nice
if they ended up being called G6JPG coating (-:]

Wouldn't it be better to apply this coating to your windows ?

That will stop the UV.

Or put your DVDs in a cake tin :-)

Some of the optical media, is actually chemically unstable,
due to poor practices at the factory. And all your attention
to detail would not save the recordings on it.

I was only suggesting it for the legend side, not the data side - as an
alternative to lightscribe.

They used to make optical media with the printable label area
on it, for use with inkjets. The inkjets that had a provision
for writing on optical media. But try and find an inkjet today
that writes those. That's what we had before LightScribe,
and the people who had the proper printer, seemed to like that
scheme. It wouldn't upset the balance of the media, like
a paper label would.

The problem with LightScribe, was it took as long to burn
the label, as to burn the data bits. A "single pass" wasn't
dark enough, so the burn process had to be repeated multiple
times until the desired shade was achieved.

Paul

Paul news May 2018 18:20:39 GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote:

Ed Cryer wrote:
I've been sorting out a box of old discs from twenty years ago,
Windows 95 days. There were about a hundred in two CD wallets,
stored in a back bedroom, unheated in winter. Ten of them I kept,
and I've been examining these on this Win7 computer.
Everything I've tried is readable, utterly readable and
executable; and that includes CD-Rs and DVD-Rs burnt elsewhere.
¡Viva Win7! ¡Y vivant discos viejos!

Ed

Some of the older re-writeable discs weren't that stable.
I had one Memorex CDRW disc that went "transparent" in
about three months. Of course Memorex doesn't make the
media, and just bought lots of blanks from the lowest
bidder. Verbatim on the other hand, seemed to test what
they were selling, and the media tags would indicate
quality sources for the discs. Quality sources
might be Taiyo Yuden or Ritek.

Verbatim and Ritek i've been a happy user of for years. Verbatim for
much much longer... As in, 5.25 floppy days, on a non PC compatible.
I wouldn't say that I'm brand loyal so much as I'm confident in the
product itself. I've still got floppies that were last written to
when I was a kid! And, the data (as of the last time I checked) was
still intact. Completely useless mind you, but, all still there.

There used to be two forums that did nothing but
discuss optical discs and burning, and you could
get good info there on which medias were good and
bad, as they'd do error scans to see which is which.

I think I know the two forums you're referencing...Those were also
the days when making coasters got expensive fast; the media wasn't
cheaply priced. And, back then, most of the created storage media
just wasn't all that good quality wise. Which led to coasters and
premature loss of data down the road in some cases when they did
succesfully burn. if I'm not mistaken, they also discussed the
physical quality of the media in so far as slight scratch resistance.

*******

The write-once stuff should be more stable.

There's no reason a -R won't work.

It has a lot to do with chemistry.

Aye.



--
To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber
stalking, it's highly recommended you visit he
https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php
================================================== =
An Emergency Call Centre worker has been fired in Toronto much to the
dismay of her colleagues, who were unhappy with her dismissal.
It seems that a caller dialled 911 from a cell phone stating, "I'm
depressed and lying on a railway line so that when the train comes I
can finally meet Allah."
To which the call centre employee replied, "Remain calm and stay on
the line."

Ed Cryer news Fri, 11 May 2018 19:49:28 GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote:

[snip]

Have you ever seen "Logan's Run"? I was impressed by the spinning
storage discs, and it made me think about ancient papyrus, vellum,
paper. Medieval monks had a bad habit of reusing classical
manuscripts, after scraping them. Modern technology is finding all
kinds of things behind psalters and prayer-books. Boccaccio and
Petrarch wrote about well-worn paths between monastery libraries
and the scriptoria. Umberto Eco's "The Name of The Rose" revolves
around something similar. Euripides wrote 95 plays, and 18
survive; while many famous Greek and Roman writers survive by one
manuscript alone, often dug up in some place where there was an
earthquake or eruption.

Still, I guess that paper has greater longevity than laser-burnt
discs.

Even if the laser-burnt disc had the same or better longevity than
various kinds of paper?, who's to say, a few thousand years (or even
a few hundred years from now) anyone would have the necessary
equipment in working condition that could actually do something
useful with the disc made centuries before?

Atleast with the present discoveries from long ago, it's text or
something else somebody today can read and understand. It doesn't
require hardware and software from the age of that writing or
knowledge of such to do it.



--
To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber
stalking, it's highly recommended you visit he
https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php
================================================== =
An Emergency Call Centre worker has been fired in Toronto much to the
dismay of her colleagues, who were unhappy with her dismissal.
It seems that a caller dialled 911 from a cell phone stating, "I'm
depressed and lying on a railway line so that when the train comes I
can finally meet Allah."
To which the call centre employee replied, "Remain calm and stay on
the line."

"J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Tue, 15 May 2018 12:34:34 GMT in
alt.windows7.general, wrote:

Although I made sure it had lightscribe ability when I bought the
(external) drive, I've never actually had any such discs.

Hmm. All of my burners are lightscribe capable. I've used the feature
one time with one of them...While it was cool enough I suppose, the
time and funny smell from doing it wasn't worth it in the long run to
me. I'll just stick to a sharpie.


--
To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber
stalking, it's highly recommended you visit he
https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php
================================================== =
An Emergency Call Centre worker has been fired in Toronto much to the
dismay of her colleagues, who were unhappy with her dismissal.
It seems that a caller dialled 911 from a cell phone stating, "I'm
depressed and lying on a railway line so that when the train comes I
can finally meet Allah."
To which the call centre employee replied, "Remain calm and stay on the
line."