Windows 9 will be for rent

On 06/15/2014 01:23 PM, ...winston wrote:
Caver1 wrote, On 6/15/2014 12:59 PM:

I couldn't get it to boot to the desktop without an a third party
utility.


Taskbar's properties tabs

Navigation tab - look in the Start Screen area on that tab
- Check 'When I sign in or close all apps on a screen, go to the
desktop instead of Start'
- Logoff then logon

Taskbar tab
- Uncheck 'Show Windows Store apps on the taskbar'




How was someone new to 8 suppose to find that?

--
Caver1

On 06/16/2014 12:55 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jun 2014 07:29:08 -0400, Caver1 wrote:

On 06/14/2014 10:50 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 16:37:24 -0400, Caver1 wrote:

In 8.1 if you set it up right you never have to see Metro or it's apps.

Thanks, but that wasn't very helpful. I've been "setting it up" for about 18
months now, and I still get dumped into the Modern UI unexpectedly.
I whack each mole as I find it, but how hard would it have been for MS to
give me/us a button that selects one UI versus the other?


Make sure all accounts are local accounts.
Download and install Classic Menu.
Choose your Classic menu style.
In Classic Menu options set it to start up Windows in the desktop. The
other options are up to you.
Delete all of the Metro apps.
I never see the Metro side. In fact I can't even get into it.

Again, thanks, but I'm talking about Windows functions, not apps.
At least, not deleteable apps, and not without taking a machete to the OS.
I appreciate the effort, but I'm not going to do that. I shouldn't have to.


But this does change the Windows functions. Or do you use the Windows
apps? If you do you can't stay out of the "Modern UI"
All the apps are deletable.
To uninstall built in Windows 8.1 apps press and hold or right-click
on it then choose uninstall. This applies to all apps on the Metro screen.
There is a way to delete them all at once. I don't remember for sure
exactly how to do this as its been quite awhile since I did this but I
believe this is it You go to the all apps screenclick on the apps you
want to uninstall,it should put a check mark on the apps shortcutsthen
right click on them. A box will pop up click on the uninstall button.
--
Caver1

On Mon, 16 Jun 2014 07:02:27 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP"
wrote:

Per DK:
Then could you kindly describe exactly what it is that you did?

+1.

I've got that five-dollar "Start" add-on and it works quite well - but
every so often I still wind up looking at the tiled interface. No
problem because I've got one beeeeeg tile that says "Desktop"... but I
do see the tiled interface occasionally, albeit very briefly.



The only time I ever see it is if I accidentally hit the Windows key.
If I don't press it, I never see it.

On the odd occasion I've accidentally found myself on the newfangled
screen and then tried running one of the newfangled applications,
there doesn't seem to be a proper way of stopping it, which seems a
strange omission. The task manager can do it of course, but that seems
a bit like stopping a vehicle by poking a stick in the spokes of one
of its wheels. There may for all I know be proper elegant ways of
doing all the usual things in Windows 8, but I think they should be
intuitive rather than requiring special training.

Rod.

Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jun 2014 20:50:24 -0500, "BillW50" wrote:

Even run Linux as a VM, as its as easy as a copy to a USD drive to
back it up.
Oh man! What is up with you VM people? I don't get the idea of running a
host OS that can't do what you want just to run another OS as a VM which
does do what you want? What is the point? Why not run the OS that does
what you want and forget that VM nonsense to begin with?

It puzzles me too. Running a "system within a system" must slow
everything down, and can evidently slightly alter the way some things
behave too, judging by the demos I've seen on youtube. Multiple
booting straight from the hard drive (or SSD) is simple enough.

Currently my test machine has seven different systems installed, just
to try them out - Ubuntu, Xubuntu, Lubuntu, Edubuntu, Kubuntu, Mint
Cinnamon and Mint Mate. When I have one of these systems running I
know I'm only seeing the behaviour of that system, not its interaction
with any other system.

Rod.

VMs work fine here, and are a great test environment.
I was able to put a DLNA media server in one OS, and
a "fake internet TV" in another OS, and test that
video transcoding was working (they were all networked together).
And still had enough processor left to browse in Firefox.

What I find is "slightly altered", is tasks requiring
RT priority in Linux, don't get RT priority. That prevents
Pulseaudio from working properly (bad quality sound).
Similarly, anything associated with time keeping, a
Linux VM on a Windows machine, is going to complain that
"so may milliseconds" were lost, during some testing done
at boot. But in terms of being able to test the average
software application, it's a great way to test without
having to fire up a room full of computers.

My VM hosting software, currently has a total of 32 OSes
installed in it. Windows 8 is not one of those, because
the set of suitable VM hosting softwares, is limited.
When I need to test Windows 8, I have to reboot into
it. Which is a pain, compared to booting the others.

Paul

On Mon, 16 Jun 2014 18:20:48 +0100, Roderick Stewart
wrote:

There may for all I know be proper elegant ways of
doing all the usual things in Windows 8, but I think they should be
intuitive rather than requiring special training.



I agree!

On 16 Jun 2014, Roderick Stewart wrote
in alt.comp.os.windows-8:

On the odd occasion I've accidentally found myself on the
newfangled screen and then tried running one of the newfangled
applications, there doesn't seem to be a proper way of stopping
it, which seems a strange omission. The task manager can do it of
course, but that seems a bit like stopping a vehicle by poking a
stick in the spokes of one of its wheels. There may for all I know
be proper elegant ways of doing all the usual things in Windows 8,
but I think they should be intuitive rather than requiring special
training.

They're not meant to be completely stopped. Supposedly they go inactive
when they're in the background and their resources are available to
other processes if needed. That's also the way most Android apps work.
It actually makes some sense - why not take advantage of any available
RAM if it's not required elsewhere? Whether or not it works out that
way in the real world, I don't know. I haven't used Windows 8 apps
enough to have a feel for that.

On Mon, 16 Jun 2014 11:58:10 -0400, Caver1 wrote:

On 06/16/2014 12:55 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jun 2014 07:29:08 -0400, Caver1 wrote:

On 06/14/2014 10:50 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 16:37:24 -0400, Caver1 wrote:

In 8.1 if you set it up right you never have to see Metro or it's apps.

Thanks, but that wasn't very helpful. I've been "setting it up" for about 18
months now, and I still get dumped into the Modern UI unexpectedly.
I whack each mole as I find it, but how hard would it have been for MS to
give me/us a button that selects one UI versus the other?


Make sure all accounts are local accounts.
Download and install Classic Menu.
Choose your Classic menu style.
In Classic Menu options set it to start up Windows in the desktop. The
other options are up to you.
Delete all of the Metro apps.
I never see the Metro side. In fact I can't even get into it.

Again, thanks, but I'm talking about Windows functions, not apps.
At least, not deleteable apps, and not without taking a machete to the OS.
I appreciate the effort, but I'm not going to do that. I shouldn't have to.


But this does change the Windows functions. Or do you use the Windows
apps? If you do you can't stay out of the "Modern UI"
All the apps are deletable.
To uninstall built in Windows 8.1 apps press and hold or right-click
on it then choose uninstall. This applies to all apps on the Metro screen.
There is a way to delete them all at once. I don't remember for sure
exactly how to do this as its been quite awhile since I did this but I
believe this is it You go to the all apps screenclick on the apps you
want to uninstall,it should put a check mark on the apps shortcutsthen
right click on them. A box will pop up click on the uninstall button.

Thanks, but I think we're talking past each other. I take responsibility for
that. The issue is that I haven't documented each case of whack-a-mole as
I've found it. Instead, I just fix things as I encounter them, one by one.

That's really the heart of my complaint: that MS didn't simply provide a
button that lets me use one interface versus the other. I want to use the
Desktop UI exclusively, but I can't.

On Mon, 16 Jun 2014 07:00:43 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP"
wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jun 2014 23:11:11 -0500, Char Jackson
wrote:


Unlike others (possibly Ken's wife too) my wife who rarely ever used the
Start Menu on 95,98,XP, 7 prefers the Modern UI and want to know why
exiting Outlook and Photo Gallery doesn't return to her preferred Modern
UI mode since those programs were launched from their respective tiles
in that mode.

Exactly. I think a lot of people would have been happier if MS had given
users a 3-position switch:
- Use the Modern UI
- Use the Desktop UI
- Let Windows decide

Each choice could still have been customizable, but at least users would
have had a choice as to the starting point.



We agree completely on that.

Thanks, Ken. I'm glad we have some common ground.

Roderick Stewart wrote, On 6/16/2014 1:20 PM:
On Mon, 16 Jun 2014 07:02:27 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP"
wrote:

Per DK:
Then could you kindly describe exactly what it is that you did?

+1.

I've got that five-dollar "Start" add-on and it works quite well - but
every so often I still wind up looking at the tiled interface. No
problem because I've got one beeeeeg tile that says "Desktop"... but I
do see the tiled interface occasionally, albeit very briefly.



The only time I ever see it is if I accidentally hit the Windows key.
If I don't press it, I never see it.

On the odd occasion I've accidentally found myself on the newfangled
screen and then tried running one of the newfangled applications,
there doesn't seem to be a proper way of stopping it, which seems a
strange omission. The task manager can do it of course, but that seems
a bit like stopping a vehicle by poking a stick in the spokes of one
of its wheels. There may for all I know be proper elegant ways of
doing all the usual things in Windows 8, but I think they should be
intuitive rather than requiring special training.

Rod.

If using 8.1 Update...to close Modern UI apps click on the obvious Red X
(upper right) or press Alt F4. Optionally, and unique to 8x and hardly
intuitive since it mimics the touch screen method, using a mouse drag
the app from the top of the screen to the bottom then hold until the
icon changes to reflect the app tile name.

--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps

On Mon, 16 Jun 2014 06:54:58 -0500, "BillW50" wrote:

In ,

Hmm... I think I ran into MKV once with XMRadio on an Android. As you
could download shows so when you were offline you could play them. I
tried to find a MKV player for Windows and the only one was on a Chinese
website and it was all in Chinese. It was too scary going through the
install and answering questions in Chinese. It could have asked do you
want this malware and that malware installed for all I know. If this is
the same format, I didn't find it very useful without a decent Windows
player for that format. Not even VLC would play them.

We travel in different circles. For me, the last dozen years or so have been
almost exclusively MKV. If you download anything video-related, chances are
it's in MKV format. It's a simple container system, sort of like AVI, but
without the limitations of AVI. I always use Media Player Classic (MPC-HT),
but VLC and WMP should be able to play them, as well. You may need to
install a codec, depending on what's in the MKV container.

On Mon, 16 Jun 2014 12:43:54 -0500, Char Jackson
wrote:

On Mon, 16 Jun 2014 07:00:43 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP"
wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jun 2014 23:11:11 -0500, Char Jackson
wrote:


Unlike others (possibly Ken's wife too) my wife who rarely ever used the
Start Menu on 95,98,XP, 7 prefers the Modern UI and want to know why
exiting Outlook and Photo Gallery doesn't return to her preferred Modern
UI mode since those programs were launched from their respective tiles
in that mode.

Exactly. I think a lot of people would have been happier if MS had given
users a 3-position switch:
- Use the Modern UI
- Use the Desktop UI
- Let Windows decide

Each choice could still have been customizable, but at least users would
have had a choice as to the starting point.



We agree completely on that.

Thanks, Ken. I'm glad we have some common ground.



You're welcome. We agree on most things. But every now and then... g

On Mon, 16 Jun 2014 13:35:40 -0400, Nil
wrote:


They're not meant to be completely stopped. Supposedly they go inactive
when they're in the background and their resources are available to
other processes if needed. That's also the way most Android apps work.
It actually makes some sense - why not take advantage of any available
RAM if it's not required elsewhere? Whether or not it works out that
way in the real world, I don't know. I haven't used Windows 8 apps
enough to have a feel for that.



An application that's running but not being used hardly ever really
uses any RAM. It quickly gets paged out if the RAM is needed
elsewhere.

On 16 Jun 2014, "Ken Blake, MVP" wrote in
alt.comp.os.windows-8:

An application that's running but not being used hardly ever
really uses any RAM. It quickly gets paged out if the RAM is
needed elsewhere.

Right. So, if the program isn't doing a real-time task, and it's well-
written enough to not hog its resources, there's no real reason to
close it.

I've been conditioned since the days of DOS to be conscientious about
closing things that I'm not using, but in a more perfect world that
wouldn't necessarily be necessary.

Maybe Windows 8 is the Perfect World!

On 06/16/2014 01:43 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Mon, 16 Jun 2014 11:58:10 -0400, Caver1 wrote:

On 06/16/2014 12:55 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jun 2014 07:29:08 -0400, Caver1 wrote:

On 06/14/2014 10:50 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 16:37:24 -0400, Caver1 wrote:

In 8.1 if you set it up right you never have to see Metro or it's apps.

Thanks, but that wasn't very helpful. I've been "setting it up" for about 18
months now, and I still get dumped into the Modern UI unexpectedly.
I whack each mole as I find it, but how hard would it have been for MS to
give me/us a button that selects one UI versus the other?


Make sure all accounts are local accounts.
Download and install Classic Menu.
Choose your Classic menu style.
In Classic Menu options set it to start up Windows in the desktop. The
other options are up to you.
Delete all of the Metro apps.
I never see the Metro side. In fact I can't even get into it.

Again, thanks, but I'm talking about Windows functions, not apps.
At least, not deleteable apps, and not without taking a machete to the OS.
I appreciate the effort, but I'm not going to do that. I shouldn't have to.


But this does change the Windows functions. Or do you use the Windows
apps? If you do you can't stay out of the "Modern UI"
All the apps are deletable.
To uninstall built in Windows 8.1 apps press and hold or right-click
on it then choose uninstall. This applies to all apps on the Metro screen.
There is a way to delete them all at once. I don't remember for sure
exactly how to do this as its been quite awhile since I did this but I
believe this is it You go to the all apps screenclick on the apps you
want to uninstall,it should put a check mark on the apps shortcutsthen
right click on them. A box will pop up click on the uninstall button.

Thanks, but I think we're talking past each other. I take responsibility for
that. The issue is that I haven't documented each case of whack-a-mole as
I've found it. Instead, I just fix things as I encounter them, one by one.

That's really the heart of my complaint: that MS didn't simply provide a
button that lets me use one interface versus the other. I want to use the
Desktop UI exclusively, but I can't.


I agree. There are ways of accomplishing things in 8 but there are
mostly counter intuitive.

--
Caver1

On 06/16/2014 02:26 PM, Nil wrote:
On 16 Jun 2014, "Ken Blake, MVP" wrote in
alt.comp.os.windows-8:

An application that's running but not being used hardly ever
really uses any RAM. It quickly gets paged out if the RAM is
needed elsewhere.

Right. So, if the program isn't doing a real-time task, and it's well-
written enough to not hog its resources, there's no real reason to
close it.

I've been conditioned since the days of DOS to be conscientious about
closing things that I'm not using, but in a more perfect world that
wouldn't necessarily be necessary.

Maybe Windows 8 is the Perfect World!


Really!?

--
Caver1