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#1
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upgrading to W7 / USB3 Q's ? :-)
Hi all,
(sorry for crossposting from microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware, as last response in there was in October ?!) Have to soon upgrade Aunt's system box from XP Home edition to W7 Home Premium, ....so before / whilst at it, I'll pop in a pcie x1 USB 3 card, and a Seagate 1TB Expansion Desktop Hard Drive, ....to pump up data transfer speeds whilst running (W7's) Files and Settings Transfer Wizard, and later use for boot drive backups etc. If I get a StarTech USB3 pcie x1 card with a SATA power connector on it, (or a Dynamode brand that has a molex power connector on it), ....and get the above mentioned Seagate external hard-disk which is supplied with a power supply, ....and NOT connect a SATA or MOLEX pwr supply to the x1 pcie USB3 card, ....will the external Seagate hd / USB3 lead try to suck out more current that the pcie x1 USB3 card can supply, ....because I have not connected extra pwr supply to SATA or MOlex connector on USB 3.0 card ? best regards, ...and a Happy New Year to all, Richard |
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#2
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upgrading to W7 / USB3 Q's ? :-)
On 1/11/2014, RJK posted:
Hi all, (sorry for crossposting from microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware, as last response in there was in October ?!) Have to soon upgrade Aunt's system box from XP Home edition to W7 Home Premium, ...so before / whilst at it, I'll pop in a pcie x1 USB 3 card, and a Seagate 1TB Expansion Desktop Hard Drive, ...to pump up data transfer speeds whilst running (W7's) Files and Settings Transfer Wizard, and later use for boot drive backups etc. If I get a StarTech USB3 pcie x1 card with a SATA power connector on it, (or a Dynamode brand that has a molex power connector on it), ...and get the above mentioned Seagate external hard-disk which is supplied with a power supply, ...and NOT connect a SATA or MOLEX pwr supply to the x1 pcie USB3 card, ...will the external Seagate hd / USB3 lead try to suck out more current that the pcie x1 USB3 card can supply, ....because I have not connected extra pwr supply to SATA or MOlex connector on USB 3.0 card ? best regards, ...and a Happy New Year to all, Richard Just connect the power supply lead. Some cards won't work if you don't, but I can't imagine why you wouldn't won't to do it anyway. Why ask for trouble? -- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) |
#3
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upgrading to W7 / USB3 Q's ? :-)
On 1/11/2014, Gene E. Bloch posted:
wouldn't won't to do it Or maybe I meant "wouldn't want to do it". The spell checker was happy but the poster was careless... -- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) |
#4
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upgrading to W7 / USB3 Q's ? :-)
On 1/11/2014 6:38 PM, RJK wrote:
Hi all, (sorry for crossposting from microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware, as last response in there was in October ?!) Have to soon upgrade Aunt's system box from XP Home edition to W7 Home Premium, ...so before / whilst at it, I'll pop in a pcie x1 USB 3 card, and a Seagate 1TB Expansion Desktop Hard Drive, ...to pump up data transfer speeds whilst running (W7's) Files and Settings Transfer Wizard, and later use for boot drive backups etc. If I get a StarTech USB3 pcie x1 card with a SATA power connector on it, (or a Dynamode brand that has a molex power connector on it), ...and get the above mentioned Seagate external hard-disk which is supplied with a power supply, ...and NOT connect a SATA or MOLEX pwr supply to the x1 pcie USB3 card, ...will the external Seagate hd / USB3 lead try to suck out more current that the pcie x1 USB3 card can supply, ....because I have not connected extra pwr supply to SATA or MOlex connector on USB 3.0 card ? best regards, ...and a Happy New Year to all, Richard Startech provide user manuals. http://www.startech.com/Cards-Adapte...pter~PEXUSB3S2 "OPTIONAL: Connect an LP4 molex power connector from the computer’s power supply to the LP4 connector on the card. This is only required if using the ports with bus-powered USB devices (no external power adapter) or if experiencing connectivity issues." If you're using a 3.5" USB3 hard drive with external adapter, then it won't be drawing significant power. It's the 2.5" hard drives that you have to watch. They don't have their own power adapter. ******* The PCI Express slots (all of them), provide 3.3V and 12V. There is no 5V in the slot. The PCI Express card has "magnetics" on it. A coil of wire on a circular former. That tells you the unit has a switching converter for some reason. Linear regulators don't need magnetics, but linear regulators are thermally limited on large loads. Whereas, switching converters are typically more efficient (80% switcher versus 40% for a linear in this application), and so if you see a switching converter, you suspect it has more power regulating capacity (before it overheats). The switcher could be there to make a core voltage for the USB3 chip. But since there is no identifiable source of 5V on there, I have to assume the switcher is for +5V, and it's good for at least a few hundred milliamps if not more. So that gives you a rough idea, what I'm looking for when inspecting that particular card type. Scan for linear regulators first. Know there is no source of 5V visible. If a switcher is present, it's likely the source of 5V (unless you plug in the optional cable to take the place of the switcher output). The only thing unclear to me, is how the switcher knows the optional cable is in place. I can think of a number of methods to have it do the right thing. The fact the Molex (or SATA Power) has both +5V and +12V on it, you could sense the +12V and use it to control the disconnection/disabling of the switcher supply. A Molex connector is good for around 6 to 8 amps. A Sata power is good for 3 amps. In either case, that should be enough to run two USB3 ports at 0.9 amps each max. If you buy a card with four ports, then you should see a Molex on one of those, as the optional power input point. As the Molex is a nicer all-round connector for computer wiring. You can still burn a Molex (I've done it), but they're generally pretty reliable. The most reliable ones, were the original ones, with the extreme insertion force. The Chinese knock-offs don't hold quite as tightly (because the customers complained :-) ). Good Molex connectors are brutal to install or remove. That's how they were designed to resist thermal expansion and falling out. Paul |
#5
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upgrading to W7 / USB3 Q's ? :-)
On Sat, 11 Jan 2014 23:38:49 -0000, RJK wrote:
(sorry for crossposting from microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware, as last response in there was in October ?!) The word "crossposting" doesn't mean what you think it means. What you did was REposting -- and under the circumstances I'd probably have done the same. -- Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA http://OakRoadSystems.com Shikata ga nai... |
#6
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upgrading to W7 / USB3 Q's ? :-)
"Stan Brown" wrote in message t... On Sat, 11 Jan 2014 23:38:49 -0000, RJK wrote: (sorry for crossposting from microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware, as last response in there was in October ?!) The word "crossposting" doesn't mean what you think it means. What you did was REposting -- and under the circumstances I'd probably have done the same. -- Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA http://OakRoadSystems.com Shikata ga nai... I stand corrected but, I did know the difference, ....due to my age I now often say one thing whilst meaning something else ! regards, Richard |
#7
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upgrading to W7 / USB3 Q's ? :-)
"Gene E. Bloch" wrote in message ... On 1/11/2014, Gene E. Bloch posted: wouldn't won't to do it Or maybe I meant "wouldn't want to do it". The spell checker was happy but the poster was careless... -- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) I agree, about "just go on and connect it," but, due to an unusual spell of laziness, regarding cutting a couple of nylon ties where I would have tidies up surplus cables inside Aunts' system box, ....and then tying them up again etc, I thought I'd chuck in a Q. ....anyhooo Pauls' info. seems to indicate that if one is not going to be using any USB3 bus powered hardware, (and on this PC such will not be used), I may be able to get away with it ! ....and by the time I get there, I may be more enthusiastic ! regards, Richard |
#8
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upgrading to W7 / USB3 Q's ? :-)
"Paul" wrote in message ... On 1/11/2014 6:38 PM, RJK wrote: Hi all, (sorry for crossposting from microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware, as last response in there was in October ?!) Have to soon upgrade Aunt's system box from XP Home edition to W7 Home Premium, ...so before / whilst at it, I'll pop in a pcie x1 USB 3 card, and a Seagate 1TB Expansion Desktop Hard Drive, ...to pump up data transfer speeds whilst running (W7's) Files and Settings Transfer Wizard, and later use for boot drive backups etc. If I get a StarTech USB3 pcie x1 card with a SATA power connector on it, (or a Dynamode brand that has a molex power connector on it), ...and get the above mentioned Seagate external hard-disk which is supplied with a power supply, ...and NOT connect a SATA or MOLEX pwr supply to the x1 pcie USB3 card, ...will the external Seagate hd / USB3 lead try to suck out more current that the pcie x1 USB3 card can supply, ....because I have not connected extra pwr supply to SATA or MOlex connector on USB 3.0 card ? best regards, ...and a Happy New Year to all, Richard Startech provide user manuals. http://www.startech.com/Cards-Adapte...pter~PEXUSB3S2 "OPTIONAL: Connect an LP4 molex power connector from the computer’s power supply to the LP4 connector on the card. This is only required if using the ports with bus-powered USB devices (no external power adapter) or if experiencing connectivity issues." If you're using a 3.5" USB3 hard drive with external adapter, then it won't be drawing significant power. It's the 2.5" hard drives that you have to watch. They don't have their own power adapter. ******* The PCI Express slots (all of them), provide 3.3V and 12V. There is no 5V in the slot. The PCI Express card has "magnetics" on it. A coil of wire on a circular former. That tells you the unit has a switching converter for some reason. Linear regulators don't need magnetics, but linear regulators are thermally limited on large loads. Whereas, switching converters are typically more efficient (80% switcher versus 40% for a linear in this application), and so if you see a switching converter, you suspect it has more power regulating capacity (before it overheats). The switcher could be there to make a core voltage for the USB3 chip. But since there is no identifiable source of 5V on there, I have to assume the switcher is for +5V, and it's good for at least a few hundred milliamps if not more. So that gives you a rough idea, what I'm looking for when inspecting that particular card type. Scan for linear regulators first. Know there is no source of 5V visible. If a switcher is present, it's likely the source of 5V (unless you plug in the optional cable to take the place of the switcher output). The only thing unclear to me, is how the switcher knows the optional cable is in place. I can think of a number of methods to have it do the right thing. The fact the Molex (or SATA Power) has both +5V and +12V on it, you could sense the +12V and use it to control the disconnection/disabling of the switcher supply. A Molex connector is good for around 6 to 8 amps. A Sata power is good for 3 amps. In either case, that should be enough to run two USB3 ports at 0.9 amps each max. If you buy a card with four ports, then you should see a Molex on one of those, as the optional power input point. As the Molex is a nicer all-round connector for computer wiring. You can still burn a Molex (I've done it), but they're generally pretty reliable. The most reliable ones, were the original ones, with the extreme insertion force. The Chinese knock-offs don't hold quite as tightly (because the customers complained :-) ). Good Molex connectors are brutal to install or remove. That's how they were designed to resist thermal expansion and falling out. Paul Many thanks, Richard |
#9
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upgrading to W7 / USB3 Q's ? :-)
On 1/12/2014, RJK posted:
"Gene E. Bloch" wrote in message ... On 1/11/2014, Gene E. Bloch posted: wouldn't won't to do it Or maybe I meant "wouldn't want to do it". The spell checker was happy but the poster was careless... -- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) I agree, about "just go on and connect it," but, due to an unusual spell of laziness, regarding cutting a couple of nylon ties where I would have tidies up surplus cables inside Aunts' system box, ...and then tying them up again etc, I thought I'd chuck in a Q. ...anyhooo Pauls' info. seems to indicate that if one is not going to be using any USB3 bus powered hardware, (and on this PC such will not be used), I may be able to get away with it ! ...and by the time I get there, I may be more enthusiastic ! regards, Richard Paul's remark came from reading the documentation for *your* card; mine came from reading comments somwhere about some cards. At this point, I don't think I could track the data down; it was in customer reviews on Amazon and Newegg of a not small variety of cards. So go ahead and follow Paul's advice, since mine is generic and shouldn't relate to your specific card, since it wasn't reported for all cards. But if you do end up having some trouble, then by all means cut those cable ties :-) -- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) |
#10
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upgrading to W7 / USB3 Q's ? :-)
"Gene E. Bloch" wrote in message ... On 1/12/2014, RJK posted: "Gene E. Bloch" wrote in message ... On 1/11/2014, Gene E. Bloch posted: wouldn't won't to do it Or maybe I meant "wouldn't want to do it". The spell checker was happy but the poster was careless... -- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) I agree, about "just go on and connect it," but, due to an unusual spell of laziness, regarding cutting a couple of nylon ties where I would have tidies up surplus cables inside Aunts' system box, ...and then tying them up again etc, I thought I'd chuck in a Q. ...anyhooo Pauls' info. seems to indicate that if one is not going to be using any USB3 bus powered hardware, (and on this PC such will not be used), I may be able to get away with it ! ...and by the time I get there, I may be more enthusiastic ! regards, Richard Paul's remark came from reading the documentation for *your* card; mine came from reading comments somwhere about some cards. At this point, I don't think I could track the data down; it was in customer reviews on Amazon and Newegg of a not small variety of cards. So go ahead and follow Paul's advice, since mine is generic and shouldn't relate to your specific card, since it wasn't reported for all cards. But if you do end up having some trouble, then by all means cut those cable ties :-) -- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) ....had to call in to tend to Aunts' PC lunchtime today, as her CR2032 battery had gone flat, ( bloody thing only lasted four years ! ...just kidding ! ) , ....so I casted an eye over available SATA/MOLEX pwr conectors, whilst I was rummaging around in there, and it will not be a big job to cut those nylon ties and connect a pwr supply to USB3 pcie card, .....so I will be doing the job properly ! :-) regards, Richard |
#11
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upgrading to W7 / USB3 Q's ? :-)
On 1/12/2014, RJK posted:
"Gene E. Bloch" wrote in message ... On 1/12/2014, RJK posted: "Gene E. Bloch" wrote in message ... On 1/11/2014, Gene E. Bloch posted: wouldn't won't to do it Or maybe I meant "wouldn't want to do it". The spell checker was happy but the poster was careless... -- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) I agree, about "just go on and connect it," but, due to an unusual spell of laziness, regarding cutting a couple of nylon ties where I would have tidies up surplus cables inside Aunts' system box, ...and then tying them up again etc, I thought I'd chuck in a Q. ...anyhooo Pauls' info. seems to indicate that if one is not going to be using any USB3 bus powered hardware, (and on this PC such will not be used), I may be able to get away with it ! ...and by the time I get there, I may be more enthusiastic ! regards, Richard Paul's remark came from reading the documentation for *your* card; mine came from reading comments somwhere about some cards. At this point, I don't think I could track the data down; it was in customer reviews on Amazon and Newegg of a not small variety of cards. So go ahead and follow Paul's advice, since mine is generic and shouldn't relate to your specific card, since it wasn't reported for all cards. But if you do end up having some trouble, then by all means cut those cable ties :-) -- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) ...had to call in to tend to Aunts' PC lunchtime today, as her CR2032 battery had gone flat, ( bloody thing only lasted four years ! ...just kidding ! ) , ...so I casted an eye over available SATA/MOLEX pwr conectors, whilst I was rummaging around in there, and it will not be a big job to cut those nylon ties and connect a pwr supply to USB3 pcie card, ....so I will be doing the job properly ! :-) regards, Richard Great! Time to tip an ale to that! RANT[1] My complaint about the Molex power connectors is that they fit so badly that I'm afraid I'll break the circuit board or whichever device when inserting or removing them - or wor4se, when it pops, create a bad cur in my had when it smashes into the sharp edge of the case. /RANT Some USB3 cards use the SATA power connectors, which are far more user friendly. [1] Or WHINE.../WHINE, if you prefer :-) -- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) |
#12
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upgrading to W7 / USB3 Q's ? :-)
On 1/13/2014, Gene E. Bloch posted:
On 1/12/2014, RJK posted: "Gene E. Bloch" wrote in message ... On 1/12/2014, RJK posted: "Gene E. Bloch" wrote in message ... On 1/11/2014, Gene E. Bloch posted: wouldn't won't to do it Or maybe I meant "wouldn't want to do it". The spell checker was happy but the poster was careless... -- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) I agree, about "just go on and connect it," but, due to an unusual spell of laziness, regarding cutting a couple of nylon ties where I would have tidies up surplus cables inside Aunts' system box, ...and then tying them up again etc, I thought I'd chuck in a Q. ...anyhooo Pauls' info. seems to indicate that if one is not going to be using any USB3 bus powered hardware, (and on this PC such will not be used), I may be able to get away with it ! ...and by the time I get there, I may be more enthusiastic ! regards, Richard Paul's remark came from reading the documentation for *your* card; mine came from reading comments somwhere about some cards. At this point, I don't think I could track the data down; it was in customer reviews on Amazon and Newegg of a not small variety of cards. So go ahead and follow Paul's advice, since mine is generic and shouldn't relate to your specific card, since it wasn't reported for all cards. But if you do end up having some trouble, then by all means cut those cable ties :-) -- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) ...had to call in to tend to Aunts' PC lunchtime today, as her CR2032 battery had gone flat, ( bloody thing only lasted four years ! ...just kidding ! ) , ...so I casted an eye over available SATA/MOLEX pwr conectors, whilst I was rummaging around in there, and it will not be a big job to cut those nylon ties and connect a pwr supply to USB3 pcie card, ....so I will be doing the job properly ! :-) regards, Richard Great! Time to tip an ale to that! RANT[1] My complaint about the Molex power connectors is that they fit so badly that I'm afraid I'll break the circuit board or whichever device when inserting or removing them - or wor4se, when it pops, create a bad cur in my had when it smashes into the sharp edge of the case. /RANT Some USB3 cards use the SATA power connectors, which are far more user friendly. [1] Or WHINE.../WHINE, if you prefer :-) wor4se = worse, cur = cut -- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) |
#13
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upgrading to W7 / USB3 Q's ? :-)
On 1/13/2014 2:59 PM, Gene E. Bloch wrote:
wor4se = worse, cur = cut Switch on the BlochSpellChecker :-) Or maybe change your posts to Klingon, if the spelling is easier :-) Paul |
#14
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upgrading to W7 / USB3 Q's ? :-)
On 1/13/2014, Paul posted:
On 1/13/2014 2:59 PM, Gene E. Bloch wrote: wor4se = worse, cur = cut Switch on the BlochSpellChecker :-) Or maybe change your posts to Klingon, if the spelling is easier :-) Paul Given the observed quality of the BlochSpellChecker, I think your second suggestion is better :-) Thanks, Paul, we can always depend on you. This has been a fairly dull day here, so your suggestion adds a needed ray of sunshine. -- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) |
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