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#16
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Why are printers constantly redesigned with no improvements?
On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 08:27:49 -0400, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
Like Frank Slootweg, and whomever was prior, the best thing I ever did was give up on the ink printers to go with the HP Laserjet 2100tn. Still have one going strong. Only issue is mine is not the TN version but uses parallel port. Networked via Linux server on older hardware with the port. $30 toner cartridge last for years Hi Jonathan Little, Yup. You helped me a lot over the years _installing_ the now deprecated drivers for the HP 2100 Laser Printer (and I took what you taught me to help others as a payback, which, is what I love to do, for decades). With your help, I wrote a tutorial, which, Cybe(r) Wizard denies exists. You helped by explaining how to get the printer drivers from Microsoft, given that (a) HP no longer has them, and (b) nobody on this planet (yet) knows how to archive them (e.g., if I hear one more person suggest double-D...), and (c) the default method on Windows 10 for obtaining legacy printer drivers fails every time. The _only_ way to get the drivers for that printer, is to go to the microsoft catalog and get them from there (and archive that, as someday that too will likely be deprecated). You helped me help others, where after all the research I did based on your suggestions (and those from Paul), I wrote a tutorial and posted it long ago, which we can find, as long as I added a degagoogled newsgroup (which I hope I did). Ah, I did (so that it's _easy_ for anyone to find if they need it): o *Tutorial for the EASIEST (maybe only?) way to install a problematic* *legacy printer such as the HP LaserJet 2100 on Windows 10 current* *versions* https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/Qb-fXNOH_8g -- Whenever I do hours and sometimes days of research for a thread (unlike the many worthless pieces of **** who spend mere seconds in their refusal of all facts they don't like, by the way), I strive to add a dejagoogled newsgroup, usually the windowsxp or freeware groups, as the Windows 7 and Windows 8 groups are also not dejagoogled. |
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#17
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Why are printers constantly redesigned with no improvements?
On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 07:07:56 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:
I'm with those in favor of laser printers. I gave up on inkjets long ago. I think it's much better to use laser printers, and in the long run, it's less expensive. I use a Brother HL-L2300D. It's B&W, and does a great job. It was inexpensive, and the third-party cartridges (EZInk) I use are also inexpensive. What I love about this thread is it made me think about something I had never realized, which is _why_ printer makers keep coming out with new models, and yet, nothing, apparently, is new in the printing (it seems). Sort of like how Windows 10 is the same as every other Windows over time. Generally, that's a classic mark of MARKETING whose "claims" all sorts of features, that really don't matter (e.g., emojiis or different colors). Printers have morphed from serial/parallel ports to USB to Ethernet/wifi, for example, but that happened long ago, as did SDcard slots, but what else has been added to printers that makes them any better? Dunno. As many of us have learned, the B&W laser printers seem to be a _lot_ less hassle (and overall expense) than all the new inkjets on the planet. However, it took me years of inkjets, mostly HP, mostly from Costco, to learn that HP does everything it can to prevent you from refilling, even as I wrote (I don't know how many) tutorials on how to get past the expiry date (down to resetting the clock and other needless shenanigans). -- When something doesn't really change over time, and yet, they keep coming out with "new" models, then MARKETING is having a field day, but not R&D. |
#18
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Why are printers constantly redesigned with no improvements?
Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 07:07:56 -0700, Ken Blake wrote: On 7/11/2020 5:27 AM, Jonathan N. Little wrote: Arlen Holder wrote: Like Frank Slootweg, and whomever was prior, the best thing I ever did was give up on the ink printers to go with the HP Laserjet 2100tn. Still have one going strong. Only issue is mine is not the TN version but uses parallel port. Networked via Linux server on older hardware with the port. $30 toner cartridge last for years. I'm with those in favor of laser printers. I gave up on inkjets long ago. I think it's much better to use laser printers, and in the long run, it's less expensive. I use a Brother HL-L2300D. It's B&W, and does a great job. It was inexpensive, and the third-party cartridges (EZInk) I use are also inexpensive. Do you have another printer for those times when you want color, or have you found that you really don't need color? HP LaserJet 2000 main document printing HP LaserJet 400C for color work HP OfficeJet Pro 8000 with CISS for printing reference photos for artwork (1)Still the most troublesome printer (2)Would shoot with my 12 gauge except too far away from civilization to have photos printed at WalMart or Walgreens which is my recommendation to most people. -- Take care, Jonathan ------------------- LITTLE WORKS STUDIO http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com |
#19
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Why are printers constantly redesigned with no improvements?
On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 10:50:27 -0500, Char Jackson wrote:
Do you have another printer for those times when you want color, or have you found that you really don't need color? When I had grandkids in the house, I "needed" color (particularly for school projects), which is what made the decision to go all B&W laser so difficult, at first. Then, I reasoned, the cost of the ink could be offset by bringing an SDcard or USB stick to Kinkos (at that time it was Kinkos, it's FedEx now), which I only "needed" to do a few times (for school projects). Now, with the grandkids out of the house (long story!), there hasn't been a need for color but FedEx is only 15 miles away (everything is 15 miles away though, so we would just combine trips with shopping trips). Rarely do we need "instant" color printing, in my experience. -- MARKETING will claim it's new even if nothing new is really inside it. |
#20
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Why are printers constantly redesigned with no improvements?
On 7/9/2020 5:13 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Every time I buy a new printer, it's changed. New stupid quirks, different ink cartridges. But not faster, not better quality, nothing useful. There was no need to make it different. So far I've seen only 1 response that answers your question - parallel-serial to USB to wifi-Ethernet and the addition of slots for various sorts of memory cards. To these I'd add that features like duplexing, and increases in speed have gone up while prices have gone down. Ditto cost/higher resolution. I don't think the changes/improvements are simply marketing ploys - how often does anyone buy a new printer to get the latest? I'd guess most folks replace an old printer because it has failed or can't connect to a new computer. (I added an LPT/Parallel card to my desktop PC to connect to a fairly old Laser.) So I think there have been improvements and corresponding cost reductions. I'm still waiting for the print-what-I'm thinking about feature. |
#21
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Why are printers constantly redesigned with no improvements?
On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 19:42:58 +0100, Bennett Price wrote:
On 7/9/2020 5:13 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote: Every time I buy a new printer, it's changed. New stupid quirks, different ink cartridges. But not faster, not better quality, nothing useful. There was no need to make it different. So far I've seen only 1 response that answers your question - parallel-serial to USB to wifi-Ethernet and the addition of slots for various sorts of memory cards. To these I'd add that features like duplexing, and increases in speed have gone up while prices have gone down. Ditto cost/higher resolution. I don't think the changes/improvements are simply marketing ploys - how often does anyone buy a new printer to get the latest? I'd guess most folks replace an old printer because it has failed or can't connect to a new computer. (I added an LPT/Parallel card to my desktop PC to connect to a fairly old Laser.) I had that problem where I worked which had Apple computers - in that case I bought adapters to go into the serial ports, cheaper and easier to fit/swap around than a card. But PCs tend to keep the old ports for a decade afterwards. I bought a motherboard with a serial and parallel port on the back about only 5 years ago. When was it USB came out? So I think there have been improvements and corresponding cost reductions. I'm still waiting for the print-what-I'm thinking about feature. But you've listed only a handful of proper feature changes. I bet you there are about 250 models of Epson inkjet ever made. |
#22
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Why are printers constantly redesigned with no improvements?
On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 16:29:42 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder
wrote: On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 07:07:56 -0700, Ken Blake wrote: I'm with those in favor of laser printers. I gave up on inkjets long ago. I think it's much better to use laser printers, and in the long run, it's less expensive. I use a Brother HL-L2300D. It's B&W, and does a great job. It was inexpensive, and the third-party cartridges (EZInk) I use are also inexpensive. What I love about this thread is it made me think about something I had never realized, which is _why_ printer makers keep coming out with new models, and yet, nothing, apparently, is new in the printing (it seems). Sort of like how Windows 10 is the same as every other Windows over time. Generally, that's a classic mark of MARKETING whose "claims" all sorts of features, that really don't matter (e.g., emojiis or different colors). Printers have morphed from serial/parallel ports to USB to Ethernet/wifi, for example, but that happened long ago, as did SDcard slots, but what else has been added to printers that makes them any better? Dunno. As many of us have learned, the B&W laser printers seem to be a _lot_ less hassle (and overall expense) than all the new inkjets on the planet. I seem to be going the other way. Originally because I was working from home and lateer out of habit I have had nothing but color lazers as my main workhorse printers. My last was and OKI C5600 which I must have owned for years. It was not a fax, or a scanner or a copier. Just a plain working printer. Toner caartidges started getting a bit expensive but, as you say there relatively cheap on a per copy basis. But then came the day when it was about to ask me for two new toner cartridges, a drum and belt, with two additional cartridges not too far off. At this stage I went out and bought an Ethernet capable Epson ET-4700 (ink tanks) with fax (which I don't use), copier with document feeder and scanner. Its not as fast as the OKI but it starts up without waiting for the fuser to heat up I get short prints sooner. And its ink costs are cheap. However, it took me years of inkjets, mostly HP, mostly from Costco, to learn that HP does everything it can to prevent you from refilling, even as I wrote (I don't know how many) tutorials on how to get past the expiry date (down to resetting the clock and other needless shenanigans). -- Regards, Eric Stevens |
#23
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Why are printers constantly redesigned with no improvements?
On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 00:47:50 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
wrote: On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 19:42:58 +0100, Bennett Price wrote: On 7/9/2020 5:13 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote: Every time I buy a new printer, it's changed. New stupid quirks, different ink cartridges. But not faster, not better quality, nothing useful. There was no need to make it different. So far I've seen only 1 response that answers your question - parallel-serial to USB to wifi-Ethernet and the addition of slots for various sorts of memory cards. To these I'd add that features like duplexing, and increases in speed have gone up while prices have gone down. Ditto cost/higher resolution. I don't think the changes/improvements are simply marketing ploys - how often does anyone buy a new printer to get the latest? I'd guess most folks replace an old printer because it has failed or can't connect to a new computer. (I added an LPT/Parallel card to my desktop PC to connect to a fairly old Laser.) I had that problem where I worked which had Apple computers - in that case I bought adapters to go into the serial ports, cheaper and easier to fit/swap around than a card. But PCs tend to keep the old ports for a decade afterwards. I bought a motherboard with a serial and parallel port on the back about only 5 years ago. When was it USB came out? So I think there have been improvements and corresponding cost reductions. I'm still waiting for the print-what-I'm thinking about feature. But you've listed only a handful of proper feature changes. I bet you there are about 250 models of Epson inkjet ever made. I bet there is a damned sight more than that. In Desktop printers there is the Workforce Series, ET Series, XP Series, Artisan Series and the Stylus Series. In large format printers they currently list 24 different models. They currently list 10 different models of Point of Sale printers. Leaving out the point of sale printers, the various printer models currently listed under 'Support & Downloads' a Eco Tank Multifunction printers 18 Eco Tank printers 3 Multifunction Printers 118 Inkjet Printers 113 Large Format Printers 72 ---- 324 Apart from that, there will be a long tail of utterly obsolete printeres trailing into the distant past. -- Regards, Eric Stevens |
#24
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Why are printers constantly redesigned with no improvements?
On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 11:42:58 -0700, Bennett Price wrote:
I'd guess most folks replace an old printer because it has failed What I find fails most, in my laser printer, are the paper feeds. I don't know how to clean them out other than what I can see. Other than the paper feeds, mine has been working for a decade or so. Maybe they've improved those damn paper feeds over time perhaps? |
#25
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Why are printers constantly redesigned with no improvements?
On 7/11/2020 8:50 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 07:07:56 -0700, Ken Blake wrote: On 7/11/2020 5:27 AM, Jonathan N. Little wrote: Arlen Holder wrote: Like Frank Slootweg, and whomever was prior, the best thing I ever did was give up on the ink printers to go with the HP Laserjet 2100tn. Still have one going strong. Only issue is mine is not the TN version but uses parallel port. Networked via Linux server on older hardware with the port. $30 toner cartridge last for years. I'm with those in favor of laser printers. I gave up on inkjets long ago. I think it's much better to use laser printers, and in the long run, it's less expensive. I use a Brother HL-L2300D. It's B&W, and does a great job. It was inexpensive, and the third-party cartridges (EZInk) I use are also inexpensive. Do you have another printer for those times when you want color, or have you found that you really don't need color? The latter. I used to have a color laser printer, but it died (two years ago?), and rather than replace it with another color printer, I realized I very seldom needed its color and decided to save money and buy a B&W. It was a good decision. -- Ken |
#26
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Why are printers constantly redesigned with no improvements?
On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 07:24:55 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:
The latter. I used to have a color laser printer, but it died (two years ago?), and rather than replace it with another color printer, I realized I very seldom needed its color and decided to save money and buy a B&W. It was a good decision. The question, more accurately, I think, is how often _must_ we have a color printout *at that very instant in time* at home... For me, given, over the years, mostly for the grandkids' school projects, I've a few times brought a USB drive over to Kinkos/Federal Express to print in color, if you have the _time_ to do that, then you don't need a color printer at home (IMHO). Plus, their printout is better, and on better paper, and longer lasting. IMHO, given the universally expressed dislike for the color-printer hassle and expense, the question is how often MUST you have a color printout NOW! -- For me, it was "almost never" did I need a color printout at that instant. |
#27
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Why are printers constantly redesigned with no improvements?
On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 07:24:55 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:
On 7/11/2020 8:50 AM, Char Jackson wrote: On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 07:07:56 -0700, Ken Blake wrote: On 7/11/2020 5:27 AM, Jonathan N. Little wrote: Arlen Holder wrote: Like Frank Slootweg, and whomever was prior, the best thing I ever did was give up on the ink printers to go with the HP Laserjet 2100tn. Still have one going strong. Only issue is mine is not the TN version but uses parallel port. Networked via Linux server on older hardware with the port. $30 toner cartridge last for years. I'm with those in favor of laser printers. I gave up on inkjets long ago. I think it's much better to use laser printers, and in the long run, it's less expensive. I use a Brother HL-L2300D. It's B&W, and does a great job. It was inexpensive, and the third-party cartridges (EZInk) I use are also inexpensive. Do you have another printer for those times when you want color, or have you found that you really don't need color? The latter. I used to have a color laser printer, but it died (two years ago?), and rather than replace it with another color printer, I realized I very seldom needed its color and decided to save money and buy a B&W. It was a good decision. Thanks. I also had a color laser that died. In my case, it was caused by toner that had some chunks in it. I took my old inkjet out of storage, where it had been for about 6 years, put in fresh ink with 'best if used by 2005' on the package, and gave it a whirl. It just worked, to my amazement. I didn't even have to run through a cleaning cycle. I'm ready to go back to laser, though. I'm undecided on the question of B/W vs color. |
#28
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Why are printers constantly redesigned with no improvements?
Char Jackson wrote:
Thanks. I also had a color laser that died. In my case, it was caused by toner that had some chunks in it. Why would that "kill" the printer? Many cartridges have the drum in the cartridge, others you can get a new drum. The fuser also can be replaced -- Take care, Jonathan ------------------- LITTLE WORKS STUDIO http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com |
#29
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Why are printers constantly redesigned with no improvements?
On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 15:26:14 -0400, "Jonathan N. Little"
wrote: Char Jackson wrote: Thanks. I also had a color laser that died. In my case, it was caused by toner that had some chunks in it. Why would that "kill" the printer? Many cartridges have the drum in the cartridge, others you can get a new drum. The fuser also can be replaced The chunks jammed up some parts that didn't appear to be easily replaceable. As I recall, the printer had a series of 10" long hollow tubes, one for each cartridge, with a longitudinal gear shaft inside to distribute toner. Two of those were frozen and the plastic gears that drive them were destroyed, along with the plastic gear on the motor. I discovered the toner chunks when I disassembled those long tubes. Repairable? I decided not to. |
#30
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Why are printers constantly redesigned with no improvements?
On 7/12/2020 12:26 PM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
Char Jackson wrote: Thanks. I also had a color laser that died. In my case, it was caused by toner that had some chunks in it. Why would that "kill" the printer? Many cartridges have the drum in the cartridge, others you can get a new drum. The fuser also can be replaced "Kill" can mean different things to different people. In my case, what caused it to "die" was a part than needed to be replaced (was it the drum? "fuser? I don't remember.) I could have replaced the part, but since it cost almost as much as replacing the whole printer, I didn't want to. -- Ken |
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