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  #1  
Old July 15th 18, 12:07 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Art Todesco
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 330
Default Windows updates

Anyone know why there are so many Windows 7 updates coming through?
I've had updates everyday for about the last week.
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  #2  
Old July 15th 18, 12:22 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Ed Cryer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,621
Default Windows updates

Art Todesco wrote:
Anyone know why there are so many Windows 7 updates coming through? I've
had updates everyday for about the last week.


Are they mostly MSE definition updates?

Ed

  #3  
Old July 15th 18, 07:41 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Windows updates

Art Todesco wrote:
Anyone know why there are so many Windows 7 updates coming through? I've
had updates everyday for about the last week.


Looping ?

Did you check your Windows Update history for
"failed" items ?

Paul
  #4  
Old July 15th 18, 09:20 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Art Todesco
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 330
Default Windows updates

On 7/15/2018 2:41 PM, Paul wrote:
Art Todesco wrote:
Anyone know why there are so many Windows 7 updates coming through?
I've had updates everyday for about the last week.


Looping ?

Did you check your Windows Update history for
"failed" items ?

Â*Â* Paul

All were successful and about half were MSE updates. Also they started
on July 1 and there are updates for each day; and several on some days.
  #5  
Old July 15th 18, 09:29 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Ed Cryer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,621
Default Windows updates

Art Todesco wrote:
On 7/15/2018 2:41 PM, Paul wrote:
Art Todesco wrote:
Anyone know why there are so many Windows 7 updates coming through?
I've had updates everyday for about the last week.


Looping ?

Did you check your Windows Update history for
"failed" items ?

Â*Â*Â* Paul

All were successful and about half were MSE updates.Â* Also they started
on July 1 and there are updates for each day; and several on some days.


Same here with the MSE updates. It started about the time you mention.
They used to update automatically.
I have "Check for updates but let me choose whether to download and
install them"; and it's been like that for years. So this change in
behaviour must have been occasioned by some MS amendment.

As you say, they now function just like Windows updates; and we get the
message saying updates available, leaving it up to us to download.

Ed

  #6  
Old July 16th 18, 01:06 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Art Todesco
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 330
Default Windows updates

On 7/15/2018 4:29 PM, Ed Cryer wrote:
Art Todesco wrote:
On 7/15/2018 2:41 PM, Paul wrote:
Art Todesco wrote:
Anyone know why there are so many Windows 7 updates coming through?
I've had updates everyday for about the last week.

Looping ?

Did you check your Windows Update history for
"failed" items ?

Â*Â*Â* Paul

All were successful and about half were MSE updates.Â* Also they
started on July 1 and there are updates for each day; and several on
some days.


Same here with the MSE updates. It started about the time you mention.
They used to update automatically.
I have "Check for updates but let me choose whether to download and
install them"; and it's been like that for years. So this change in
behaviour must have been occasioned by some MS amendment.

As you say, they now function just like Windows updates; and we get the
message saying updates available, leaving it up to us to download.

Ed

Yup, just got another one this AM. It was optional "Silverlight" and
not optional MSE update.
  #7  
Old July 16th 18, 06:54 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Ed Cryer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,621
Default Windows updates

Art Todesco wrote:
On 7/15/2018 4:29 PM, Ed Cryer wrote:
Art Todesco wrote:
On 7/15/2018 2:41 PM, Paul wrote:
Art Todesco wrote:
Anyone know why there are so many Windows 7 updates coming through?
I've had updates everyday for about the last week.

Looping ?

Did you check your Windows Update history for
"failed" items ?

Â*Â*Â* Paul
All were successful and about half were MSE updates.Â* Also they
started on July 1 and there are updates for each day; and several on
some days.


Same here with the MSE updates. It started about the time you mention.
They used to update automatically.
I have "Check for updates but let me choose whether to download and
install them"; and it's been like that for years. So this change in
behaviour must have been occasioned by some MS amendment.

As you say, they now function just like Windows updates; and we get
the message saying updates available, leaving it up to us to download.

Ed

Yup, just got another one this AM.Â* It was optional "Silverlight" and
not optional MSE update.


My MSE updates now come as "Recommended". They used to be "Optional"
until 06.07.
I've had no Silverlight update for weeks. Two new MSE ones today; both
flagged for me to download at my leisure.

The only way I can think of getting back to auto-updating the MSE things
is to change settings to "download and install" for all updates. And I
ain't a gonna do that, no way.
So I'm stuck with what MS have dumped on me.

Ed
  #8  
Old July 16th 18, 07:20 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Ed Cryer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,621
Default Windows updates

Ed Cryer wrote:
Art Todesco wrote:
On 7/15/2018 4:29 PM, Ed Cryer wrote:
Art Todesco wrote:
On 7/15/2018 2:41 PM, Paul wrote:
Art Todesco wrote:
Anyone know why there are so many Windows 7 updates coming
through? I've had updates everyday for about the last week.

Looping ?

Did you check your Windows Update history for
"failed" items ?

Â*Â*Â* Paul
All were successful and about half were MSE updates.Â* Also they
started on July 1 and there are updates for each day; and several on
some days.

Same here with the MSE updates. It started about the time you mention.
They used to update automatically.
I have "Check for updates but let me choose whether to download and
install them"; and it's been like that for years. So this change in
behaviour must have been occasioned by some MS amendment.

As you say, they now function just like Windows updates; and we get
the message saying updates available, leaving it up to us to download.

Ed

Yup, just got another one this AM.Â* It was optional "Silverlight" and
not optional MSE update.


My MSE updates now come as "Recommended". They used to be "Optional"
until 06.07.
I've had no Silverlight update for weeks. Two new MSE ones today; both
flagged for me to download at my leisure.

The only way I can think of getting back to auto-updating the MSE things
is to change settings to "download and install" for all updates. And I
ain't a gonna do that, no way.
So I'm stuck with what MS have dumped on me.

Ed


Now you can see why MS have done this. Or, at least I can.
It's straddled us with a choice. Do you want MSE definition updates to
be downloaded and installed automatically; or do you want them to hang
around up there until you take action and do it yourself?

Cunning! But very translucent when you hold up to your eyes their policy
of forcing updates down and in, willy-nilly of individual choice.

Well, stay with me. Keep your update settings under personal control,
and just download the virus-definitions as they get advertised.

Ed
  #9  
Old July 16th 18, 10:22 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Windows updates

Ed Cryer wrote:
Ed Cryer wrote:
Art Todesco wrote:
On 7/15/2018 4:29 PM, Ed Cryer wrote:
Art Todesco wrote:
On 7/15/2018 2:41 PM, Paul wrote:
Art Todesco wrote:
Anyone know why there are so many Windows 7 updates coming
through? I've had updates everyday for about the last week.

Looping ?

Did you check your Windows Update history for
"failed" items ?

Paul
All were successful and about half were MSE updates. Also they
started on July 1 and there are updates for each day; and several
on some days.

Same here with the MSE updates. It started about the time you mention.
They used to update automatically.
I have "Check for updates but let me choose whether to download and
install them"; and it's been like that for years. So this change in
behaviour must have been occasioned by some MS amendment.

As you say, they now function just like Windows updates; and we get
the message saying updates available, leaving it up to us to download.

Ed

Yup, just got another one this AM. It was optional "Silverlight" and
not optional MSE update.


My MSE updates now come as "Recommended". They used to be "Optional"
until 06.07.
I've had no Silverlight update for weeks. Two new MSE ones today; both
flagged for me to download at my leisure.

The only way I can think of getting back to auto-updating the MSE
things is to change settings to "download and install" for all
updates. And I ain't a gonna do that, no way.
So I'm stuck with what MS have dumped on me.

Ed


Now you can see why MS have done this. Or, at least I can.
It's straddled us with a choice. Do you want MSE definition updates to
be downloaded and installed automatically; or do you want them to hang
around up there until you take action and do it yourself?

Cunning! But very translucent when you hold up to your eyes their policy
of forcing updates down and in, willy-nilly of individual choice.

Well, stay with me. Keep your update settings under personal control,
and just download the virus-definitions as they get advertised.

Ed


There are materials here for manual install. This would
be if your Windows Update was completely broken.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/wdsi/definitions

As an experiment:

https://www.winhelponline.com/blog/u...-command-line/

# Administrator Command Prompt
# Use double quotes to handle spaces in the path names.

"%ProgramFiles%\Microsoft Security Essentials\MpCmdRun.exe" /?

"%ProgramFiles%\Microsoft Security Essentials\MpCmdRun.exe" -SignatureUpdate

If that works, you could do a Scheduled Tasks (schtask???) via
the GUI and have your signatureUpdate done that way. *If* that's
what is really broken. You're going to have to confirm that
the MSE item in Windows Update, disappears after a SignatureUpdate,
to prove there isn't a *real* update coming in.

I don't know if a signature update, can also change the runtime
of MSE or not. An AV may need signatures or it may need runtime
code patching. A good design has both in say, a .msi file, and
is then transparent to the user. Sometimes, a reboot is needed
to finish the install of the runtime update (because killing
the running boss process, is frowned upon by the designers).

Maybe you can dream up a solution, without resorting to
"full auto" out of frustration. I never use "full auto"
on anything, if I can possibly avoid it.

The reason I'm familiar with the first link, is I have
a VM (not licensed) with Win10 running in it. I used a
certain technique to prevent Windows Update, and as a form
of punishment, Windows Defender gets into a snit during
an attempted Win10 session. "Feeding it a cookie" from the
wdsi page, tips it upright again, and eventually there
are enough CPU cycles to do something. But that's the
price you pay for putting roadblocks in the way. That VM
has successfully stayed at 16299 as a result. It's not
the version that mattered. Rather, it was an attempt to
see if the OS would try at some point, to "auto-repair"
itself. It easily has the materials, such as dism and sfc,
to effect a repair if it wanted to. It would only be
"three lines of code" so to speak.

Paul
  #10  
Old July 17th 18, 03:04 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Ed Cryer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,621
Default Windows updates

Paul wrote:
Ed Cryer wrote:
Ed Cryer wrote:
Art Todesco wrote:
On 7/15/2018 4:29 PM, Ed Cryer wrote:
Art Todesco wrote:
On 7/15/2018 2:41 PM, Paul wrote:
Art Todesco wrote:
Anyone know why there are so many Windows 7 updates coming
through? I've had updates everyday for about the last week.

Looping ?

Did you check your Windows Update history for
"failed" items ?

Â*Â*Â* Paul
All were successful and about half were MSE updates.Â* Also they
started on July 1 and there are updates for each day; and several
on some days.

Same here with the MSE updates. It started about the time you mention.
They used to update automatically.
I have "Check for updates but let me choose whether to download and
install them"; and it's been like that for years. So this change in
behaviour must have been occasioned by some MS amendment.

As you say, they now function just like Windows updates; and we get
the message saying updates available, leaving it up to us to download.

Ed

Yup, just got another one this AM.Â* It was optional "Silverlight"
and not optional MSE update.

My MSE updates now come as "Recommended". They used to be "Optional"
until 06.07.
I've had no Silverlight update for weeks. Two new MSE ones today;
both flagged for me to download at my leisure.

The only way I can think of getting back to auto-updating the MSE
things is to change settings to "download and install" for all
updates. And I ain't a gonna do that, no way.
So I'm stuck with what MS have dumped on me.

Ed


Now you can see why MS have done this. Or, at least I can.
It's straddled us with a choice. Do you want MSE definition updates to
be downloaded and installed automatically; or do you want them to hang
around up there until you take action and do it yourself?

Cunning! But very translucent when you hold up to your eyes their
policy of forcing updates down and in, willy-nilly of individual choice.

Well, stay with me. Keep your update settings under personal control,
and just download the virus-definitions as they get advertised.

Ed


There are materials here for manual install. This would
be if your Windows Update was completely broken.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/wdsi/definitions

As an experiment:

https://www.winhelponline.com/blog/u...-command-line/


Â*Â* # Administrator Command Prompt
Â*Â* # Use double quotes to handle spaces in the path names.

Â*Â* "%ProgramFiles%\Microsoft Security Essentials\MpCmdRun.exe" /?

Â*Â* "%ProgramFiles%\Microsoft Security Essentials\MpCmdRun.exe"
-SignatureUpdate

If that works, you could do a Scheduled Tasks (schtask???) via
the GUI and have your signatureUpdate done that way. *If* that's
what is really broken. You're going to have to confirm that
the MSE item in Windows Update, disappears after a SignatureUpdate,
to prove there isn't a *real* update coming in.

I don't know if a signature update, can also change the runtime
of MSE or not. An AV may need signatures or it may need runtime
code patching. A good design has both in say, a .msi file, and
is then transparent to the user. Sometimes, a reboot is needed
to finish the install of the runtime update (because killing
the running boss process, is frowned upon by the designers).

Maybe you can dream up a solution, without resorting to
"full auto" out of frustration. I never use "full auto"
on anything, if I can possibly avoid it.

The reason I'm familiar with the first link, is I have
a VM (not licensed) with Win10 running in it. I used a
certain technique to prevent Windows Update, and as a form
of punishment, Windows Defender gets into a snit during
an attempted Win10 session. "Feeding it a cookie" from the
wdsi page, tips it upright again, and eventually there
are enough CPU cycles to do something. But that's the
price you pay for putting roadblocks in the way. That VM
has successfully stayed at 16299 as a result. It's not
the version that mattered. Rather, it was an attempt to
see if the OS would try at some point, to "auto-repair"
itself. It easily has the materials, such as dism and sfc,
to effect a repair if it wanted to. It would only be
"three lines of code" so to speak.

Â*Â* Paul


I've decided to simply continue manually updating as they get found. The
service that checks daily and lets me know works well enough.
In fact (people, please restrain your contempt) I might switch to
auto-update; since for some time now I've been taking all Win7 updates.

Ed
  #11  
Old July 18th 18, 01:00 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Windows updates

Ed Cryer wrote:


I've decided to simply continue manually updating as they get found. The
service that checks daily and lets me know works well enough.
In fact (people, please restrain your contempt) I might switch to
auto-update; since for some time now I've been taking all Win7 updates.

Ed


I don't think it's necessarily taking all the updates
that matters. It's the "circuit breaker" aspect that
you want. If an update is bricking computers, being a
day or two late to the party could pay off. It
depends on what you think of the QA level of the
updates, that determines whether full auto is
merited.

Paul
  #12  
Old July 18th 18, 04:32 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Windows updates

Boris wrote:
Art Todesco wrote in news
On 7/15/2018 4:29 PM, Ed Cryer wrote:
Art Todesco wrote:
On 7/15/2018 2:41 PM, Paul wrote:
Art Todesco wrote:
Anyone know why there are so many Windows 7 updates coming through?
I've had updates everyday for about the last week.
Looping ?

Did you check your Windows Update history for
"failed" items ?

   Paul
All were successful and about half were MSE updates. Also they
started on July 1 and there are updates for each day; and several on
some days.
Same here with the MSE updates. It started about the time you mention.
They used to update automatically.
I have "Check for updates but let me choose whether to download and
install them"; and it's been like that for years. So this change in
behaviour must have been occasioned by some MS amendment.

As you say, they now function just like Windows updates; and we get the
message saying updates available, leaving it up to us to download.

Ed

Yup, just got another one this AM. It was optional "Silverlight" and
not optional MSE update.


Art, can you tell us what is the Virus definition version and the spyware
definition version appear in your MSE program? I have both as 1.271.1136.0.

If I press the update button, I get that they are up to date. But, if I go
to Microsoft to download the 'current' version, I am presented with version
4.10.0209.0, not version 1.271.1136.0 (supposedly up to date?).

Long ago, I turned off automatic updating and have been set at "Check for
updates but let me decide whether to download and install them". Today, I've
got 43 important updates sitting, waiting to be downloaded/installed. I have
not downloaded or installed any in years (well, maybe a few Security and
Office updates). I suppose that if I did install those 43 updates, that
would trigger another heap of updates , etc, until I was up to date.

About the MSE updates...I have at least one, sometimes two, per day, going
back to 1/20/2015, showing up in "Review your update history". There is a
small gap between 6/14/2016 and 8/28/2016 in which there are other updates,
but no MSE updates. There are a few other updates which I intentionally
installed throughout the years.

But, I did not install any of the MSE updates. None.

Your post got me to look closer at this MSE update situation, because for
you, having so many MSE updates was unusual, but for me, it 'seems' to be
normal.

Also, from 1/20/2015, all MSE updates listed in "Review your update history"
were 'Optional'. Then, beginning on 7/5/2018, they became 'Recommended'.
Again, I did not download or install a single one.

So how did they get there? I've been watching the Windows Update
notification in the system tray more carefully since I read your post. It
(has)always (said) says "New updates are available", but normally there's
nothing in there that I want. Paying more attention shows me that at least
once a day, there is a MSE update listed as 'Important', and ready for
download. The latest was 1.271.1119.0. I expected this one to later appear
as installed in the "Review your update history", and disappear from Windows
Update. Sure enough, later in the day 1.271.1119.0 disappears from Windows
Update, and a new MSE update does appear in the "Review your update history",
but the new one it is not 1.271.1119.0. It is 1.271.1136.0 (installed at
2:33 PM). It seems that the version number that makes it to the installed
list is never the version that shows up in Windows Update.

Holy ****. As I am writing this, I went back to "Review your update
history", and there's a new MSE update, 1.271.1140.0 just installed at 7:18
PM. There are still 43 'Important' updates in Windows Update. Don't know if
1.271.1140.0 flowed through Windows Update while I wasn't watching, or not.

Anyway, what is the Virus definition version and the spyware definition
version appear in your MSE program?

I may try to get the most current version, since now I'm not sure about this
version, even though it reports up to date. I do have a tested clone and
backup image should things go south.


Why not backup, fire in every Windows Update under the
sun, note the version numbers after the reboot, then
roll back the system by restoring from backup kater ?

This is why you should keep your contents of C: small,
and transfer your movie collection from Downloads to a
D: drive. To separate the items when doing backups for this
kind of Windows maintenance.

A typical C: backup here takes ten minutes.

Paul
  #13  
Old July 18th 18, 01:30 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Ed Cryer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,621
Default Windows updates

Boris wrote:
Art Todesco wrote in news
On 7/15/2018 4:29 PM, Ed Cryer wrote:
Art Todesco wrote:
On 7/15/2018 2:41 PM, Paul wrote:
Art Todesco wrote:
Anyone know why there are so many Windows 7 updates coming through?
I've had updates everyday for about the last week.

Looping ?

Did you check your Windows Update history for
"failed" items ?

Â*Â*Â* Paul
All were successful and about half were MSE updates.Â* Also they
started on July 1 and there are updates for each day; and several on
some days.

Same here with the MSE updates. It started about the time you mention.
They used to update automatically.
I have "Check for updates but let me choose whether to download and
install them"; and it's been like that for years. So this change in
behaviour must have been occasioned by some MS amendment.

As you say, they now function just like Windows updates; and we get the
message saying updates available, leaving it up to us to download.

Ed

Yup, just got another one this AM. It was optional "Silverlight" and
not optional MSE update.


Art, can you tell us what is the Virus definition version and the spyware
definition version appear in your MSE program? I have both as 1.271.1136.0.

If I press the update button, I get that they are up to date. But, if I go
to Microsoft to download the 'current' version, I am presented with version
4.10.0209.0, not version 1.271.1136.0 (supposedly up to date?).

Long ago, I turned off automatic updating and have been set at "Check for
updates but let me decide whether to download and install them". Today, I've
got 43 important updates sitting, waiting to be downloaded/installed. I have
not downloaded or installed any in years (well, maybe a few Security and
Office updates). I suppose that if I did install those 43 updates, that
would trigger another heap of updates , etc, until I was up to date.

About the MSE updates...I have at least one, sometimes two, per day, going
back to 1/20/2015, showing up in "Review your update history". There is a
small gap between 6/14/2016 and 8/28/2016 in which there are other updates,
but no MSE updates. There are a few other updates which I intentionally
installed throughout the years.

But, I did not install any of the MSE updates. None.

Your post got me to look closer at this MSE update situation, because for
you, having so many MSE updates was unusual, but for me, it 'seems' to be
normal.

Also, from 1/20/2015, all MSE updates listed in "Review your update history"
were 'Optional'. Then, beginning on 7/5/2018, they became 'Recommended'.
Again, I did not download or install a single one.

So how did they get there? I've been watching the Windows Update
notification in the system tray more carefully since I read your post. It
(has)always (said) says "New updates are available", but normally there's
nothing in there that I want. Paying more attention shows me that at least
once a day, there is a MSE update listed as 'Important', and ready for
download. The latest was 1.271.1119.0. I expected this one to later appear
as installed in the "Review your update history", and disappear from Windows
Update. Sure enough, later in the day 1.271.1119.0 disappears from Windows
Update, and a new MSE update does appear in the "Review your update history",
but the new one it is not 1.271.1119.0. It is 1.271.1136.0 (installed at
2:33 PM). It seems that the version number that makes it to the installed
list is never the version that shows up in Windows Update.

Holy ****. As I am writing this, I went back to "Review your update
history", and there's a new MSE update, 1.271.1140.0 just installed at 7:18
PM. There are still 43 'Important' updates in Windows Update. Don't know if
1.271.1140.0 flowed through Windows Update while I wasn't watching, or not.

Anyway, what is the Virus definition version and the spyware definition
version appear in your MSE program?

I may try to get the most current version, since now I'm not sure about this
version, even though it reports up to date. I do have a tested clone and
backup image should things go south.


I have 1.271.1173.0 for both, updated 7 mins ago.

Ed

  #14  
Old July 18th 18, 03:05 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,679
Default Windows updates

In message , Paul
writes:
[]
Why not backup, fire in every Windows Update under the
sun, note the version numbers after the reboot, then
roll back the system by restoring from backup kater ?


I take it you mean "when it fails" (-:. [Otherwise, why would you be
rolling it back.]

The trouble is, some things that are broken by updates don't _show_
themselves for some time - by when you may have added lots more updates,
and it's very hard work (lots of restoring of images, trying, trying
this or that update, trying, ...) finding the culprit. Especially if
it's an interaction between two or more that's the cause.

This is why you should keep your contents of C: small,
and transfer your movie collection from Downloads to a
D: drive. To separate the items when doing backups for this
kind of Windows maintenance.


Thoroughly agree (or D: partition in this case - I'd like to be
otherwise, but only one drive bay in this as in most laptops).

A typical C: backup here takes ten minutes.

Paul

Bit more here as I only have USB2, but principle agreed. (My C: is
29.5GB used ATM.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Hadrian's Wall has never been a border between Scotland and England. It lies
entirely within England but, when it was built in AD 122 by the Romans as a
defence against the raiding Picts, the future English were still in Germany
and the Scottish were still in Ireland.
- Michael Cullen, Skye, in RT 2014/12/6-12
  #15  
Old July 18th 18, 06:58 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Ed Cryer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,621
Default Windows updates

Boris wrote:
Ed Cryer wrote in newsinbuk$imh$1@dont-
email.me:

Boris wrote:



I have 1.271.1173.0 for both, updated 7 mins ago.

Ed


Got up this morning, and I still have 1.271.1140.0 running the show, but
1.271.1166.0 waiting in the wings.


Blimey! I just did a Windows Update check and got 1.271.1182.0.

This all points to an inescapable conclusion. MS are releasing every new
added virus definition as an update! And an "important" update! And it
depends entirely on your local check-for-updates setting as to how
frequently you get them.
I think my update-checker calls in once a day. If I ever get any
indication that it's doing it more often, I'll do a system restore
immediately, and then find the offending KB and hide it.

Ed


 




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