"You're up to date" - NOT

I'm using Version 1803 (OS Build 17134.254)

Checking 'Update & Security' 'Windows Update' I saw the reassuring
"You're up to date". But I clicked 'Check for Updates' anyway and there
were two items. (One was 'pending..something or other' and the other a
cumulative update, referencing KB4346783.

So clearly I was NOT up to date.

User error/misunderstanding, or a WU bug?

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

On 08/31/2018 10:01 AM, Terry Pinnell wrote:
I'm using Version 1803 (OS Build 17134.254)

Checking 'Update & Security' 'Windows Update' I saw the reassuring
"You're up to date". But I clicked 'Check for Updates' anyway and there
were two items. (One was 'pending..something or other' and the other a
cumulative update, referencing KB4346783.

So clearly I was NOT up to date.

User error/misunderstanding, or a WU bug?

Terry, East Grinstead, UK


Must be a bug,I have had this happen a couple of times on my system also.

Rene

In article , Terry Pinnell
wrote:

I'm using Version 1803 (OS Build 17134.254)

Checking 'Update & Security' 'Windows Update' I saw the reassuring
"You're up to date". But I clicked 'Check for Updates' anyway and there
were two items. (One was 'pending..something or other' and the other a
cumulative update, referencing KB4346783.

So clearly I was NOT up to date.

happens all the time, not just 1803 either.

i routinely check again right after an update and there's often
something else available, usually minor.

some updates require a previous update to be installed.

😉 Good Guy 😉 wrote:
On 31/08/2018 16:01, Terry Pinnell wrote:
I'm using Version 1803 (OS Build 17134.254)

Checking 'Update & Security' 'Windows Update' I saw the reassuring
"You're up to date". But I clicked 'Check for Updates' anyway and there
were two items. (One was 'pending..something or other' and the other a
cumulative update, referencing KB4346783.

So clearly I was NOT up to date.

User error/misunderstanding, or a WU bug?

Terry, East Grinstead, UK


Another idiot who gets sleepless nights when Windows updates don't
come. Why the **** do you need updates all the time. Why not use your
common sense.

Some people wants to block updates and some idiots like you wants them
every day. What the **** is wrong with you guys.

Considering the OP, upthread, is suffering from unwanted
restarts, the attempt to "clear the deck" of Updates is
to ensure the machine doesn't reboot while he's using it.

It's not that he wants updates, he wants updates to be
"done and gone" so the deck is clear, and he can actually
use the computer. You know, as if he actually owned the computer.

Paul

On Fri, 31 Aug 2018 16:01:59 +0100, Terry Pinnell wrote:

I'm using Version 1803 (OS Build 17134.254)

Checking 'Update & Security' 'Windows Update' I saw the reassuring
"You're up to date". But I clicked 'Check for Updates' anyway and there
were two items. (One was 'pending..something or other' and the other a
cumulative update, referencing KB4346783.

So clearly I was NOT up to date.

User error/misunderstanding, or a WU bug?


It actually said something like this

You're up to date
Last checked: 08/08/2018, 11:02 a.m.

You did not tell us what the "Last checked:" date was. It might have
been up to date on the "Last checked:" date, but when you asked it to
check again then it found updates which had become available since
the "Last checked:" date.


--
Kind regards
Ralph

Paul wrote:

? Good Guy ? wrote:
On 31/08/2018 16:01, Terry Pinnell wrote:
I'm using Version 1803 (OS Build 17134.254)

Checking 'Update & Security' 'Windows Update' I saw the reassuring
"You're up to date". But I clicked 'Check for Updates' anyway and there
were two items. (One was 'pending..something or other' and the other a
cumulative update, referencing KB4346783.

So clearly I was NOT up to date.

User error/misunderstanding, or a WU bug?

Terry, East Grinstead, UK


Another idiot who gets sleepless nights when Windows updates don't
come. Why the **** do you need updates all the time. Why not use your
common sense.

Some people wants to block updates and some idiots like you wants them
every day. What the **** is wrong with you guys.

Considering the OP, upthread, is suffering from unwanted
restarts, the attempt to "clear the deck" of Updates is
to ensure the machine doesn't reboot while he's using it.

It's not that he wants updates, he wants updates to be
"done and gone" so the deck is clear, and he can actually
use the computer. You know, as if he actually owned the computer.

Paul

It's 11 hours since that last unwanted restart today. Let's see what
happens in the small hours overnight. I'm hoping that those manual
updates might have fixed it. Will report back tomorrow morning.

Terry, East Grinstead, UK
Friday 31 August 2018, 22:36

Ralph Fox wrote:

On Fri, 31 Aug 2018 16:01:59 +0100, Terry Pinnell wrote:

I'm using Version 1803 (OS Build 17134.254)

Checking 'Update & Security' 'Windows Update' I saw the reassuring
"You're up to date". But I clicked 'Check for Updates' anyway and there
were two items. (One was 'pending..something or other' and the other a
cumulative update, referencing KB4346783.

So clearly I was NOT up to date.

User error/misunderstanding, or a WU bug?


It actually said something like this

You're up to date
Last checked: 08/08/2018, 11:02 a.m.

You did not tell us what the "Last checked:" date was. It might have
been up to date on the "Last checked:" date, but when you asked it to
check again then it found updates which had become available since
the "Last checked:" date.

It was a time a few hours earlier the same day. So I moved on and only
came back a few hours later in sceptic mode,

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Paul wrote:

? Good Guy ? wrote:
On 31/08/2018 16:01, Terry Pinnell wrote:
I'm using Version 1803 (OS Build 17134.254)

Checking 'Update & Security' 'Windows Update' I saw the reassuring
"You're up to date". But I clicked 'Check for Updates' anyway and there
were two items. (One was 'pending..something or other' and the other a
cumulative update, referencing KB4346783.

So clearly I was NOT up to date.

User error/misunderstanding, or a WU bug?

Terry, East Grinstead, UK


Another idiot who gets sleepless nights when Windows updates don't
come. Why the **** do you need updates all the time. Why not use your
common sense.

Some people wants to block updates and some idiots like you wants them
every day. What the **** is wrong with you guys.

Considering the OP, upthread, is suffering from unwanted
restarts, the attempt to "clear the deck" of Updates is
to ensure the machine doesn't reboot while he's using it.

It's not that he wants updates, he wants updates to be
"done and gone" so the deck is clear, and he can actually
use the computer. You know, as if he actually owned the computer.

Paul

I'll post in more detail in 'Unexpected overnight restarts'. But it's
still not 100% clear to me whether WU might be the cause, so doing so
here too.

Despite my optimism, I had another restart overnight, so my 'forced'
updates didn't fix it.

Here's the latest status of WU as of this morning 1st Sep.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ghzmakk7v8...es-2.jpg?raw=1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5s25gj3u2w...es-3.jpg?raw=1

Q1: I'd unchecked 'Automatic restarts yesterday. So, if there was
another cause for a restart, I'd expected to see that suspended and the
screen showing at least a clue, if not an explicit message. Have I
misunderstood that option?


Q2: Does this still leave the jury out or can I now exclude WU and focus
on the other possible causes in my main thread?

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Terry Pinnell wrote:

Paul wrote:

? Good Guy ? wrote:
On 31/08/2018 16:01, Terry Pinnell wrote:
I'm using Version 1803 (OS Build 17134.254)

Checking 'Update & Security' 'Windows Update' I saw the reassuring
"You're up to date". But I clicked 'Check for Updates' anyway and there
were two items. (One was 'pending..something or other' and the other a
cumulative update, referencing KB4346783.

So clearly I was NOT up to date.

User error/misunderstanding, or a WU bug?

Terry, East Grinstead, UK


Another idiot who gets sleepless nights when Windows updates don't
come. Why the **** do you need updates all the time. Why not use your
common sense.

Some people wants to block updates and some idiots like you wants them
every day. What the **** is wrong with you guys.

Considering the OP, upthread, is suffering from unwanted
restarts, the attempt to "clear the deck" of Updates is
to ensure the machine doesn't reboot while he's using it.

It's not that he wants updates, he wants updates to be
"done and gone" so the deck is clear, and he can actually
use the computer. You know, as if he actually owned the computer.

Paul

I'll post in more detail in 'Unexpected overnight restarts'. But it's
still not 100% clear to me whether WU might be the cause, so doing so
here too.

Despite my optimism, I had another restart overnight, so my 'forced'
updates didn't fix it.

Here's the latest status of WU as of this morning 1st Sep.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ghzmakk7v8...es-2.jpg?raw=1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5s25gj3u2w...es-3.jpg?raw=1

Q1: I'd unchecked 'Automatic restarts yesterday. So, if there was
another cause for a restart, I'd expected to see that suspended and the
screen showing at least a clue, if not an explicit message. Have I
misunderstood that option?


Q2: Does this still leave the jury out or can I now exclude WU and focus
on the other possible causes in my main thread?

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

While preparing my post to the other thread I found this in Event
Viewer:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jjjftpiqzr...st-4.jpg?raw=1

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Terry Pinnell wrote:
Terry Pinnell wrote:

Paul wrote:

? Good Guy ? wrote:
On 31/08/2018 16:01, Terry Pinnell wrote:
I'm using Version 1803 (OS Build 17134.254)

Checking 'Update & Security' 'Windows Update' I saw the reassuring
"You're up to date". But I clicked 'Check for Updates' anyway and there
were two items. (One was 'pending..something or other' and the other a
cumulative update, referencing KB4346783.

So clearly I was NOT up to date.

User error/misunderstanding, or a WU bug?

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Another idiot who gets sleepless nights when Windows updates don't
come. Why the **** do you need updates all the time. Why not use your
common sense.

Some people wants to block updates and some idiots like you wants them
every day. What the **** is wrong with you guys.
Considering the OP, upthread, is suffering from unwanted
restarts, the attempt to "clear the deck" of Updates is
to ensure the machine doesn't reboot while he's using it.

It's not that he wants updates, he wants updates to be
"done and gone" so the deck is clear, and he can actually
use the computer. You know, as if he actually owned the computer.

Paul
I'll post in more detail in 'Unexpected overnight restarts'. But it's
still not 100% clear to me whether WU might be the cause, so doing so
here too.

Despite my optimism, I had another restart overnight, so my 'forced'
updates didn't fix it.

Here's the latest status of WU as of this morning 1st Sep.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ghzmakk7v8...es-2.jpg?raw=1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5s25gj3u2w...es-3.jpg?raw=1

Q1: I'd unchecked 'Automatic restarts yesterday. So, if there was
another cause for a restart, I'd expected to see that suspended and the
screen showing at least a clue, if not an explicit message. Have I
misunderstood that option?


Q2: Does this still leave the jury out or can I now exclude WU and focus
on the other possible causes in my main thread?

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

While preparing my post to the other thread I found this in Event
Viewer:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jjjftpiqzr...st-4.jpg?raw=1

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

It appears the OS may be loading more than one user language.
Like, a UK user gets both UK english and US english or something.
At the very least, you might want to check your "Region and Language"
and see what a mess is present there. And I can't tell from this,
whether you should be attempting to remove the extraneous one
or not.

https://superuser.com/questions/1318...not-remove-it/

I don't think my installs here, and their behavior, would
help much on this. I'm Canadian, and mine has a single entry
for US English. It hasn't attempted to add more baloney on
its own.

And like your experience on Windows Update, mine this morning
shows "You're Up To Date" while the network LED is furiously
flashing away, which tells you it's downloading the Cumulative.
And only when you click the button and check, does it admit
the Cumulative is coming in. This is on an install that hasn't
been run for a few weeks.

Normally, the Update Orchestrator would start, kick off
Windows Update, and it would be checking for updates
within the first few minutes. I suspect that's why the
network LED was already flashing. Yet, the status on
the screen, doesn't (immediately) match what it's up to.
A bit deceptive.

Paul


Paul

Paul wrote:
Terry Pinnell wrote:
Terry Pinnell wrote:

Paul wrote:

? Good Guy ? wrote:
On 31/08/2018 16:01, Terry Pinnell wrote:
I'm using Version 1803 (OS Build 17134.254)

Checking 'Update & Security' 'Windows Update' I saw the reassuring
"You're up to date". But I clicked 'Check for Updates' anyway and
there
were two items. (One was 'pending..something or other' and the
other a
cumulative update, referencing KB4346783.

So clearly I was NOT up to date.

User error/misunderstanding, or a WU bug?

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Another idiot who gets sleepless nights when Windows updates don't
come. Why the **** do you need updates all the time. Why not use
your common sense.

Some people wants to block updates and some idiots like you wants
them every day. What the **** is wrong with you guys.
Considering the OP, upthread, is suffering from unwanted
restarts, the attempt to "clear the deck" of Updates is
to ensure the machine doesn't reboot while he's using it.

It's not that he wants updates, he wants updates to be
"done and gone" so the deck is clear, and he can actually
use the computer. You know, as if he actually owned the computer.

Paul
I'll post in more detail in 'Unexpected overnight restarts'. But it's
still not 100% clear to me whether WU might be the cause, so doing so
here too.

Despite my optimism, I had another restart overnight, so my 'forced'
updates didn't fix it.

Here's the latest status of WU as of this morning 1st Sep.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ghzmakk7v8...es-2.jpg?raw=1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5s25gj3u2w...es-3.jpg?raw=1

Q1: I'd unchecked 'Automatic restarts yesterday. So, if there was
another cause for a restart, I'd expected to see that suspended and the
screen showing at least a clue, if not an explicit message. Have I
misunderstood that option?


Q2: Does this still leave the jury out or can I now exclude WU and focus
on the other possible causes in my main thread?

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

While preparing my post to the other thread I found this in Event
Viewer:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jjjftpiqzr...st-4.jpg?raw=1

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

It appears the OS may be loading more than one user language.
Like, a UK user gets both UK english and US english or something.
At the very least, you might want to check your "Region and Language"
and see what a mess is present there. And I can't tell from this,
whether you should be attempting to remove the extraneous one
or not.

https://superuser.com/questions/1318...not-remove-it/


I don't think my installs here, and their behavior, would
help much on this. I'm Canadian, and mine has a single entry
for US English. It hasn't attempted to add more baloney on
its own.

And like your experience on Windows Update, mine this morning
shows "You're Up To Date" while the network LED is furiously
flashing away, which tells you it's downloading the Cumulative.
And only when you click the button and check, does it admit
the Cumulative is coming in. This is on an install that hasn't
been run for a few weeks.

Normally, the Update Orchestrator would start, kick off
Windows Update, and it would be checking for updates
within the first few minutes. I suspect that's why the
network LED was already flashing. Yet, the status on
the screen, doesn't (immediately) match what it's up to.
A bit deceptive.

Paul

Also, the Language Packs are replaced with Local Experience Packs,
an entity which is distributed from the Windows Store.

The import of that decision is, the Local Experience Pack could
update outside of Windows Update. (Windows Store stuff is
handled independently, and I don't know what triggers it either.)

The question that remains, is whether the Windows Store activity
can trigger a reboot. If it can do something like that, it means
we may need *two* solutions to the reboot problem. One for
Windows Update, one to stop the Store from doing that.

Normally, you expect the Store to be distributing "Apps", a
thing in Ring3 that doesn't need a reboot. It's a bit bogus
to be distributing goods from the Store, which affect Ring0
or "require a reboot". That would be bad design, to replicate
feature set, and complicate the attack surface.

Maybe you receive the language pack like that, in the same
way the Store delivers "Flappy Birds" when you didn't want
a copy of it. Maybe if you remove one of your languages,
it comes back on the next OS "Upgrade".

Paul

Paul wrote:

Paul wrote:
Terry Pinnell wrote:
Terry Pinnell wrote:

Paul wrote:

? Good Guy ? wrote:
On 31/08/2018 16:01, Terry Pinnell wrote:
I'm using Version 1803 (OS Build 17134.254)

Checking 'Update & Security' 'Windows Update' I saw the reassuring
"You're up to date". But I clicked 'Check for Updates' anyway and
there
were two items. (One was 'pending..something or other' and the
other a
cumulative update, referencing KB4346783.

So clearly I was NOT up to date.

User error/misunderstanding, or a WU bug?

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Another idiot who gets sleepless nights when Windows updates don't
come. Why the **** do you need updates all the time. Why not use
your common sense.

Some people wants to block updates and some idiots like you wants
them every day. What the **** is wrong with you guys.
Considering the OP, upthread, is suffering from unwanted
restarts, the attempt to "clear the deck" of Updates is
to ensure the machine doesn't reboot while he's using it.

It's not that he wants updates, he wants updates to be
"done and gone" so the deck is clear, and he can actually
use the computer. You know, as if he actually owned the computer.

Paul
I'll post in more detail in 'Unexpected overnight restarts'. But it's
still not 100% clear to me whether WU might be the cause, so doing so
here too.

Despite my optimism, I had another restart overnight, so my 'forced'
updates didn't fix it.

Here's the latest status of WU as of this morning 1st Sep.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ghzmakk7v8...es-2.jpg?raw=1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5s25gj3u2w...es-3.jpg?raw=1

Q1: I'd unchecked 'Automatic restarts yesterday. So, if there was
another cause for a restart, I'd expected to see that suspended and the
screen showing at least a clue, if not an explicit message. Have I
misunderstood that option?


Q2: Does this still leave the jury out or can I now exclude WU and focus
on the other possible causes in my main thread?

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

While preparing my post to the other thread I found this in Event
Viewer:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jjjftpiqzr...st-4.jpg?raw=1

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

It appears the OS may be loading more than one user language.
Like, a UK user gets both UK english and US english or something.
At the very least, you might want to check your "Region and Language"
and see what a mess is present there. And I can't tell from this,
whether you should be attempting to remove the extraneous one
or not.

https://superuser.com/questions/1318...not-remove-it/


I don't think my installs here, and their behavior, would
help much on this. I'm Canadian, and mine has a single entry
for US English. It hasn't attempted to add more baloney on
its own.

And like your experience on Windows Update, mine this morning
shows "You're Up To Date" while the network LED is furiously
flashing away, which tells you it's downloading the Cumulative.
And only when you click the button and check, does it admit
the Cumulative is coming in. This is on an install that hasn't
been run for a few weeks.

Normally, the Update Orchestrator would start, kick off
Windows Update, and it would be checking for updates
within the first few minutes. I suspect that's why the
network LED was already flashing. Yet, the status on
the screen, doesn't (immediately) match what it's up to.
A bit deceptive.

Paul

Also, the Language Packs are replaced with Local Experience Packs,
an entity which is distributed from the Windows Store.

The import of that decision is, the Local Experience Pack could
update outside of Windows Update. (Windows Store stuff is
handled independently, and I don't know what triggers it either.)

The question that remains, is whether the Windows Store activity
can trigger a reboot. If it can do something like that, it means
we may need *two* solutions to the reboot problem. One for
Windows Update, one to stop the Store from doing that.

Normally, you expect the Store to be distributing "Apps", a
thing in Ring3 that doesn't need a reboot. It's a bit bogus
to be distributing goods from the Store, which affect Ring0
or "require a reboot". That would be bad design, to replicate
feature set, and complicate the attack surface.

Maybe you receive the language pack like that, in the same
way the Store delivers "Flappy Birds" when you didn't want
a copy of it. Maybe if you remove one of your languages,
it comes back on the next OS "Upgrade".

Paul

Thanks Paul. I'd appreciate any thoughts you have on my latest posts in
"Unexpected overnight restarts" too please.

Terry, East Grinstead, UK