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Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?



 
 
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  #76  
Old October 20th 18, 09:25 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:


It happens with more than one program, but The Sims 3 is the prime example.


At first, Google wouldn't show me anything related to Sims 3.
But after fiddling with search terms a bit, I found something
which at least mentions a few file names.

"The Sims 3 | Performance & Bug Fix Guide 2018"

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil...?id=1131162350

There's no direct mention of your problem, but
consider that:

1) The game needs to SaveState when you close it.
It's a simulation that will want to "pick up
where it left off". It needs to save many aspects
of graphics output and system state (where all the
duff cars and taxis are located that nobody is using).

2) There are "cache" files, the cache files get
larger with time. The cache files are re-generated
at startup, which takes more time if you erased them (bad).
But having smaller cache files may speed up SaveState (good).

So that's the only thing I spotted so far. You don't have
to delete anything to start with, but you could have a look at
the named files to see if they're huge or not. The next time
you quit the SIMS 3, watch your disk drive activity light
on the computer case, and see if it says lit solid until
the game finally exits. That would imply the caches are
huge.

"The cache files that are safe to delete after
everytime playing the game are...

- compositorCache.package
- CasPartCache.package
- scriptCache.package
- simCompositorCache.package
- socialCache.package

Deleting these files before running the game will
make the game run smoother.
"

If the game needs to save out the cache files after
you tell it to "quit", that's why the game cannot
quit 20 microseconds later. Rather than a system resource,
it's a game resource that requires protection.

If you want to delete those five files, you'd do it
while the game wasn't running.

In Task Manager, the game apparently runs ts3.exe and ts3w.exe.

And because some of the users are fiddling with "affinity" setting
when the executable starts, apparently it doesn't handle
"a lot of CPU cores" well. On a dual core E8400 you
likely wouldn't have to do anything to it. There have
been games in the past, that crash if the affinity
is above 1. Setting affinity is likely a "bitmap",
so a value of 3 is a mask of 0011 binary and would
limit program execution to the CPU0 and CPU1 cores.
A value of 7 would limit execution to the first
three cores 0x0111 etc.

0 0 1 1
-------
C C C C
P P P P
U U U U
3 2 1 0

On WinXP, the affinity mask maximum width is limited to
32 cores and would look like 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0011.
If you owned an AMD Epyc processor, you'd need to define
the whole thing.

This is what WinXP Affinity looks like in Task Manager, but
that "start" example supports doing this dialog from the
command line. In this example, the processor only has two
cores, and both cores are candidates to run the program in
question (the one you'd be setting affinity on).

https://cloud.addictivetips.com/wp-c...08/11/core.jpg

On Windows 10, I think the max cores the OS can use is 256,
so the affinity mask would be really really wide.

Anyway, when playing a favorite game, that's the kind of
web page you want to find. One with plenty of meat to it.

HTH,
Paul
Ads
  #77  
Old October 20th 18, 04:49 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mr Pounder Esquire
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 100
Default Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?

nospam wrote:
In article , Jimmy Wilkinson
Knife wrote:

Explain to me how it takes time to delete RAM.


what for? you have no clue and only want to troll.


Hucker is a well known troll.


  #78  
Old October 20th 18, 06:55 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Frank Slootweg
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,226
Default Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?

Jonathan N. Little wrote:
Frank Slootweg wrote:
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Fri, 19 Oct 2018 14:14:01 +0100, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
[...]
I've not seen one single answer that explains why it takes time to
stop doing something.

s/seen/understood/

I only understand English punctuation.


s/only/don't/
s/English punctuation/anything


information | JSW /dev/null

Sorry, couldn't resist.


Don't be silly, there's absolutely no need to redirect and waste a
precious resource like /dev/null!

Proof:

$ information | JSW | wc -l
0
$
  #79  
Old October 20th 18, 07:03 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Frank Slootweg
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,226
Default Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Fri, 19 Oct 2018 20:35:39 +0100, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Fri, 19 Oct 2018 14:14:01 +0100, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
[...]

Explain to me why stopping using a resource should take time.

There's this saying about a horse and water, ...

Well nobody's tried.


The responses in this thread are best viewed with a computer and your
eyes open.


Did that, but unfortunately the authors of the posts were lacking in
intelligence.


BTW, when are you going to re-enroll in Trolling 101? Or have you been
banned for life, miserably failing even the entry exam!?

In the old days, most trolls were somewhat smart and witty. These days
they're just kooks. Not that I want to offend any kooks by implying that
our young Jimmy is one.
  #80  
Old October 20th 18, 07:30 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Jonathan N. Little[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,133
Default Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?

Frank Slootweg wrote:
Jonathan N. Little wrote:


snip


information | JSW /dev/null

Sorry, couldn't resist.


Don't be silly, there's absolutely no need to redirect and waste a
precious resource like /dev/null!

Proof:

$ information | JSW | wc -l
0
$


Touché!

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
  #81  
Old October 20th 18, 10:39 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 269
Default Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?

On Sat, 20 Oct 2018 18:55:48 +0100, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Jonathan N. Little wrote:
Frank Slootweg wrote:
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Fri, 19 Oct 2018 14:14:01 +0100, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
[...]
I've not seen one single answer that explains why it takes time to
stop doing something.

s/seen/understood/

I only understand English punctuation.

s/only/don't/
s/English punctuation/anything


information | JSW /dev/null

Sorry, couldn't resist.


Don't be silly, there's absolutely no need to redirect and waste a
precious resource like /dev/null!

Proof:

$ information | JSW | wc -l
0
$


**** off geek.
  #82  
Old October 20th 18, 10:40 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 269
Default Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?

On Sat, 20 Oct 2018 19:03:56 +0100, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Fri, 19 Oct 2018 20:35:39 +0100, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Fri, 19 Oct 2018 14:14:01 +0100, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
[...]

Explain to me why stopping using a resource should take time.

There's this saying about a horse and water, ...

Well nobody's tried.

The responses in this thread are best viewed with a computer and your
eyes open.


Did that, but unfortunately the authors of the posts were lacking in
intelligence.


BTW, when are you going to re-enroll in Trolling 101? Or have you been
banned for life, miserably failing even the entry exam!?

In the old days, most trolls were somewhat smart and witty. These days
they're just kooks. Not that I want to offend any kooks by implying that
our young Jimmy is one.


Why is it morons like you assume anyone who disagrees with them must be a troll? You've got some ego.
  #83  
Old October 20th 18, 10:40 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 269
Default Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?

On Sat, 20 Oct 2018 16:49:32 +0100, Mr Pounder Esquire wrote:

nospam wrote:
In article , Jimmy Wilkinson
Knife wrote:

Explain to me how it takes time to delete RAM.


what for? you have no clue and only want to troll.


Hucker is a well known troll.


PKB.
  #84  
Old October 20th 18, 10:51 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 269
Default Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?

On Sat, 20 Oct 2018 09:25:31 +0100, Paul wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:


It happens with more than one program, but The Sims 3 is the prime example.


At first, Google wouldn't show me anything related to Sims 3.
But after fiddling with search terms a bit, I found something
which at least mentions a few file names.

"The Sims 3 | Performance & Bug Fix Guide 2018"

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil...?id=1131162350

There's no direct mention of your problem, but
consider that:

1) The game needs to SaveState when you close it.
It's a simulation that will want to "pick up
where it left off". It needs to save many aspects
of graphics output and system state (where all the
duff cars and taxis are located that nobody is using).


No, that's done when you save the game. You can either do that while closing, or seperately. If I save game, then close without saving, the closing still takes ages.

2) There are "cache" files, the cache files get
larger with time. The cache files are re-generated
at startup, which takes more time if you erased them (bad).
But having smaller cache files may speed up SaveState (good).


So are you saying it caches something to disk in an effort to improve startup time, but makes it take longer to close?

So that's the only thing I spotted so far. You don't have
to delete anything to start with, but you could have a look at
the named files to see if they're huge or not.


The problem occurs after installing it and playing it for a short time, so it's not a buildup of something over a long period.

The next time
you quit the SIMS 3, watch your disk drive activity light
on the computer case, and see if it says lit solid until
the game finally exits. That would imply the caches are
huge.


I think it did stay lit, but that could be paging as it only has 4GB RAM.

"The cache files that are safe to delete after
everytime playing the game are...

- compositorCache.package
- CasPartCache.package
- scriptCache.package
- simCompositorCache.package
- socialCache.package

Deleting these files before running the game will
make the game run smoother.
"


Then surely it should do it automatically as a matter of course?!

If the game needs to save out the cache files after
you tell it to "quit", that's why the game cannot
quit 20 microseconds later. Rather than a system resource,
it's a game resource that requires protection.

If you want to delete those five files, you'd do it
while the game wasn't running.


Then surely I'd just get more cache files made next time I played, and since it occurs after only playing once, I don't see I'd benefit.

In Task Manager, the game apparently runs ts3.exe and ts3w.exe.

And because some of the users are fiddling with "affinity" setting
when the executable starts, apparently it doesn't handle
"a lot of CPU cores" well. On a dual core E8400 you
likely wouldn't have to do anything to it. There have
been games in the past, that crash if the affinity
is above 1. Setting affinity is likely a "bitmap",
so a value of 3 is a mask of 0011 binary and would
limit program execution to the CPU0 and CPU1 cores.
A value of 7 would limit execution to the first
three cores 0x0111 etc.

0 0 1 1
-------
C C C C
P P P P
U U U U
3 2 1 0

On WinXP, the affinity mask maximum width is limited to
32 cores and would look like 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0011.
If you owned an AMD Epyc processor, you'd need to define
the whole thing.

This is what WinXP Affinity looks like in Task Manager, but
that "start" example supports doing this dialog from the
command line. In this example, the processor only has two
cores, and both cores are candidates to run the program in
question (the one you'd be setting affinity on).

https://cloud.addictivetips.com/wp-c...08/11/core.jpg

On Windows 10, I think the max cores the OS can use is 256,
so the affinity mask would be really really wide.


I've not adjusted affinity or anything else. It's a quad core CPU and AFAIK the game only uses one core.

Anyway, when playing a favorite game, that's the kind of
web page you want to find. One with plenty of meat to it.


I've fiddled in the past with this game on another machine and not got very far. Even on a very high spec machine, a game that's been played for quite some time will still bog it down and eventually become unplayable. This seems to be why Electronic Arts made The Sims 4, but unfortunately they made the programming so much simpler that the game sux, the main thing that annoys me is the playable area of the world is tiny. When you move a character from one part of the town to another, you have to wait while it loads it! And if you have several characters in the game it become utterly ridiculous.
  #85  
Old October 20th 18, 10:52 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 269
Default Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?

On Sat, 20 Oct 2018 02:47:58 +0100, Spooge wrote:

On Sat, 20 Oct 2018 00:29:40 +0100, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife, tweeted:
On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 20:58:53 +0100, Wolf K wrote:


[Snip]

In any case, the game-ending process obviously does a lot of things.
You've been told a number of possible and more or less probable
scenarios. If you haven't yet sussed that this means a definitive answer
is impossible without reading the game's code, well, that's your
problem. Get over it.


All I did was point out that Electronic Arts haven't a ****ing clue as to how to write a game.


Send EA a box of clues for Christmas.
I'm sure they'd appreciate it.


Well games from other companies seem to work so much better.
  #86  
Old October 20th 18, 10:53 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,free.spam
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 269
Default Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?

On Sat, 20 Oct 2018 01:45:28 +0100, John Doe wrote:

An attention whore...


Read what I wrote (which you stupidly placed under your sig seperator) then try again.
  #87  
Old October 21st 18, 01:31 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 269
Default Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?

On Sat, 20 Oct 2018 09:25:31 +0100, Paul wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:


It happens with more than one program, but The Sims 3 is the prime example.


At first, Google wouldn't show me anything related to Sims 3.
But after fiddling with search terms a bit, I found something
which at least mentions a few file names.

"The Sims 3 | Performance & Bug Fix Guide 2018"

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil...?id=1131162350

There's no direct mention of your problem, but
consider that:

1) The game needs to SaveState when you close it.
It's a simulation that will want to "pick up
where it left off". It needs to save many aspects
of graphics output and system state (where all the
duff cars and taxis are located that nobody is using).

2) There are "cache" files, the cache files get
larger with time. The cache files are re-generated
at startup, which takes more time if you erased them (bad).
But having smaller cache files may speed up SaveState (good).

So that's the only thing I spotted so far. You don't have
to delete anything to start with, but you could have a look at
the named files to see if they're huge or not.

The next time
you quit the SIMS 3, watch your disk drive activity light
on the computer case, and see if it says lit solid until
the game finally exits. That would imply the caches are
huge.


I think it did stay lit, but that could be paging as it only has 4GB RAM.

Correction - very little disk activity, 43% CPU usage (of 4 cores).

"The cache files that are safe to delete after
everytime playing the game are...

- compositorCache.package
- CasPartCache.package
- scriptCache.package
- simCompositorCache.package
- socialCache.package

Deleting these files before running the game will
make the game run smoother.
"

If the game needs to save out the cache files after
you tell it to "quit", that's why the game cannot
quit 20 microseconds later. Rather than a system resource,
it's a game resource that requires protection.

If you want to delete those five files, you'd do it
while the game wasn't running.

In Task Manager, the game apparently runs ts3.exe and ts3w.exe.

And because some of the users are fiddling with "affinity" setting
when the executable starts, apparently it doesn't handle
"a lot of CPU cores" well. On a dual core E8400 you
likely wouldn't have to do anything to it. There have
been games in the past, that crash if the affinity
is above 1. Setting affinity is likely a "bitmap",
so a value of 3 is a mask of 0011 binary and would
limit program execution to the CPU0 and CPU1 cores.
A value of 7 would limit execution to the first
three cores 0x0111 etc.

0 0 1 1
-------
C C C C
P P P P
U U U U
3 2 1 0

On WinXP, the affinity mask maximum width is limited to
32 cores and would look like 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0011.
If you owned an AMD Epyc processor, you'd need to define
the whole thing.

This is what WinXP Affinity looks like in Task Manager, but
that "start" example supports doing this dialog from the
command line. In this example, the processor only has two
cores, and both cores are candidates to run the program in
question (the one you'd be setting affinity on).

https://cloud.addictivetips.com/wp-c...08/11/core.jpg

On Windows 10, I think the max cores the OS can use is 256,
so the affinity mask would be really really wide.

Anyway, when playing a favorite game, that's the kind of
web page you want to find. One with plenty of meat to it.

  #88  
Old October 21st 18, 02:59 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:


I think it did stay lit, but that could be paging as it only has 4GB RAM.

Correction - very little disk activity, 43% CPU usage (of 4 cores).


They recommend doing a "Save" first, then "Exit" here.

https://forums.thesims.com/EN_US/dis...rever-to-close

The purpose of doing a test like that, is to see if the
thing is tasked with exiting only, it can do that in
a reasonable period of time.

Paul
  #89  
Old October 21st 18, 01:09 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 269
Default Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?

On Sun, 21 Oct 2018 02:59:17 +0100, Paul wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:


I think it did stay lit, but that could be paging as it only has 4GB RAM.

Correction - very little disk activity, 43% CPU usage (of 4 cores).


They recommend doing a "Save" first, then "Exit" here.

https://forums.thesims.com/EN_US/dis...rever-to-close

The purpose of doing a test like that, is to see if the
thing is tasked with exiting only, it can do that in
a reasonable period of time.


I always save then exit, and yes it takes ages.
  #90  
Old October 21st 18, 02:57 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Frank Slootweg
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,226
Default Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Sat, 20 Oct 2018 19:03:56 +0100, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Fri, 19 Oct 2018 20:35:39 +0100, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Fri, 19 Oct 2018 14:14:01 +0100, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
[...]

Explain to me why stopping using a resource should take time.

There's this saying about a horse and water, ...

Well nobody's tried.

The responses in this thread are best viewed with a computer and your
eyes open.

Did that, but unfortunately the authors of the posts were lacking in
intelligence.


BTW, when are you going to re-enroll in Trolling 101? Or have you been
banned for life, miserably failing even the entry exam!?

In the old days, most trolls were somewhat smart and witty. These days
they're just kooks. Not that I want to offend any kooks by implying that
our young Jimmy is one.


Why is it morons like you assume anyone who disagrees with them must
be a troll? You've got some ego.


In order to disagree, you must understand first. You've shown you're
incapable of that, ergo ...

You've got some ego.


I've to - partially - withdraw my judgement. You *are* funny! Not
witty, but - unintentionally I'm sure - quite funny.
 




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