Clean a PC before selling?

"jim" wrote in message
.. .
If you wanted to clean ALL traces of your activity from a PC before
selling it or giving it away, what would be the best way to do that
without a format and complete re-install of the OS?



I use MaxBlast 4's zero-fill utility. It writes zeros to the entire drive
save the drive geometry. This method [zero-fill] is pretty good at wiping a
drive so well that even the weirder viruses are for sure erased. It makes
the drive like new.

However, it might not be quite enough to out-do a forensic analysis as one
pass with zeros might not get rid of trace evidences. For that you'd
probably need some sort of pgp wipe where all manner of patterns and
sequences get written to the drive several times instead of zeros just once.

If the information on your drive is *that* sensitive, e.g. ultra-top-secret
plans to a 10th dimensional plasma boom device [whoops I shouldn't have
admitted such a device exists on an open forum], then just destroy the
drive.

Saucy

"David" wrote in
:

A complete format and reinstall is probably the best way, IMO. Of
course you would need to give the Windows disk to the recipient
because it is licensed to only one computer.

Could personal data be obtained from the HD anyway. Yes, I suppose,
but only with a forensic exam of the HD. The average user wouldn't
know how to do this, and wouldn't care anyway.

A format and re-install may not completely overwrite all the user data on a
HD.

I've never examined a hard disk layout directly after a format/reinstall,
but I'm guessing that most user data would be stored outside the platter
tracks that the OS will install to on a clean install.

Any area of the disk that is not written to on the re-install is fair game
for recovery.....and it's not hard. There are a 1,001 utilities that can
piece together the data, even after a format. Even after an FDisk. I have
done it. I have manually recreated partition tables, and I have
'unformatted' more than one HD.

There's no way to be sure all data has been removed w/o using a s/w utility
to wipe the disk. Simple as that.

Oh great, another curt poster to this NG, like it needs another.

" db ´¯`·.. )))º` .. ." databaseben.public.newsgroup.microsoft.com
wrote in message ...
i know those softwares
you mentioned.

and your methodology provides
a false sense of security
to the inept.

but it really doesn't matter
since my response was for
the benefit of the o.p. and
not for the debate of others.

--

db ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·..)))º`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸)))º¸.
)))º·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. )))º`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸)))º


.


"DanS" wrote in message
48.16...
db ´¯`·.. )))º` .. . databaseben.public.newsgroup.microsoft.com
wrote in :

there is only one way

however, this is a complicated
process and best left to those
who have studied and practiced
the method. many of us old timers
and experts understand the methods
and will never share this experience
on the open newsgroups.

Not complicated DB...maybe to you. Just use any number of utilities you
can d/l to do free space shredding with the OS still installed, or use
the HD mfg's utility disk to do a low-level 0 or 1 fill, however many
times you want.

further it is unclear what the
true nature of your question is.

The only thing unclear here is your typical answers all written in
riddles.


eradicating traces on the computer
is one side, there is however the
other end, whereas business's maintain
data that is forever linked to your ip
address and your billing accounts.

What does that have to do with the question ?


in addition, you simply can't
reinstall windows and simply give
the machine away.

windows has only one license per
computer and it is enforced without
compassion by Microsoft's activation
technology.

Maybe it was an OEM install already tied to the hardware, in which case
that copy of Windows is of no use unless it is on the same hardware.

db ´¯`·.. )))º` .. . wrote:

but it really doesn't matter
since my response was for
the benefit of the o.p.

Was it meant for comedic relief or what? I hope so because it contained
absolutely no useful information to the question asked by the OP, but as
far as jokes go that was one of your best ever!

John

"jim" wrote in message
. ..

"Malke" wrote in message
...
jim wrote:
If you wanted to clean ALL traces of your activity from a PC before
selling it or giving it away, what would be the best way to do that
without a format and complete re-install of the OS?

You can't. Even with a format, data recovery software can retrieve files.
The only way to make sure there is nothing left of your activity is to
wipe the hard drive (Darik's Boot and Nuke is free; Acronis Disk Cleanser
is good but not free) or smash it with a sledge hammer.


Malke
--
Elephant Boy Computers
www.elephantboycomputers.com
"Don't Panic!"
MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User

Thanks for the info - http://dban.sourceforge.net/ for those that want it
too.

Apart from the fact that its impossible to guarantee to erase a hard disk of
all information using /any/ software you can get.
The mechanical tolerances mean that the erase head can never be guaranteed
to actually pass over the entire track and will not leave some remains at
the edge of the track which can be read if someone wants to put in the
effort.

The claims made by software writers are not really justified and any disks
with secrets on them should be physically destroyed.

"DanS" wrote in message
46.128...
db ´¯`·.. )))º` .. . databaseben.public.newsgroup.microsoft.com
wrote in :

i know those softwares
you mentioned.

and your methodology provides
a false sense of security
to the inept.

Using DoD compliant s/w gives
a false sense of security ?

It sure sounds like it.
See my other post about the mechanics of disks and you will understand why
software is no good for real secrets.
I doubt db knows a way to do it either so don't expect a sensible reply on
how to do it.
However I doubt if any private individual has any data worth dismantling a
disk to recover so a quick wipe will do.
A business is a different matter as accounts and personal stuff should be
destroyed by physically destroying the disk as the MoD does.

providing your 3 cents where
none has been asked, is in it
self a problem with your ego.

frankly, you are so busy trolling
upon everyone's response to the
o.p. that you have not posted a
response directly to "jim" and
his question.


--

db ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·..)))º`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸)))º¸.
)))º·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. )))º`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸)))º


..


"DanS" wrote in message
46.128...
db ´¯`·.. )))º` .. . databaseben.public.newsgroup.microsoft.com
wrote in :

i know those softwares
you mentioned.

and your methodology provides
a false sense of security
to the inept.

Using DoD compliant s/w gives
a false sense of security ?

but it really doesn't matter
since my response was for
the benefit of the o.p. and
not for the debate of others.

You have a Frank ego.

And who cares why you posted. I
certainly don't.

It was a post in a publicly
accessible newsgroup, which,
by nature, is up for comment
by ANYONE.

If you don't want to engage
in a discussion or debate, then
stop throwing in your one cent.
(If it's worth that much.)

dennis@home wrote:



"DanS" wrote in message
46.128...

db ´¯`·.. )))º` .. . databaseben.public.newsgroup.microsoft.com
wrote in :

i know those softwares
you mentioned.

and your methodology provides
a false sense of security
to the inept.


Using DoD compliant s/w gives
a false sense of security ?


It sure sounds like it.
See my other post about the mechanics of disks and you will understand
why software is no good for real secrets.
I doubt db knows a way to do it either so don't expect a sensible reply
on how to do it.
However I doubt if any private individual has any data worth dismantling
a disk to recover so a quick wipe will do.
A business is a different matter as accounts and personal stuff should
be destroyed by physically destroying the disk as the MoD does.

No one has ever been able to recover data from a properly wiped disk,
Dennis, no one. What you say was deemed to be "theoretically" possible
about 25 years ago or more, but even then no one ever succeeded in
recovering data from a wiped drive. Today's class of drives are
completely different from drives of 25 years ago and it would be even
more difficult to recover data from a wiped drive than it was 25 years
ago. The facts are that no one can recover data on a wiped drive.

John

Yes, if they are that sensitive, destroying the hardware is the only way.
With enough money, you can recover data from any hard drive.

--
Dustin Harper

http://www.vistarip.com


"dennis@home" wrote in message
news


"jim" wrote in message
. ..

"Malke" wrote in message
...
jim wrote:
If you wanted to clean ALL traces of your activity from a PC before
selling it or giving it away, what would be the best way to do that
without a format and complete re-install of the OS?

You can't. Even with a format, data recovery software can retrieve
files. The only way to make sure there is nothing left of your activity
is to wipe the hard drive (Darik's Boot and Nuke is free; Acronis Disk
Cleanser is good but not free) or smash it with a sledge hammer.


Malke
--
Elephant Boy Computers
www.elephantboycomputers.com
"Don't Panic!"
MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User

Thanks for the info - http://dban.sourceforge.net/ for those that want it
too.

Apart from the fact that its impossible to guarantee to erase a hard disk
of all information using /any/ software you can get.
The mechanical tolerances mean that the erase head can never be guaranteed
to actually pass over the entire track and will not leave some remains at
the edge of the track which can be read if someone wants to put in the
effort.

The claims made by software writers are not really justified and any disks
with secrets on them should be physically destroyed.

No one has ever been able to recover any data from a properly wiped
drive. No one ever with any amount of money. It is nothing more than
an urban legend.

John

Dustin Harper wrote:

Yes, if they are that sensitive, destroying the hardware is the only
way. With enough money, you can recover data from any hard drive.

FWIW

http://blogs.computerworld.com/node/5687/print

"Dustin Harper" wrote in message
news
Yes, if they are that sensitive, destroying the hardware is the only way.
With enough money, you can recover data from any hard drive.

--
Dustin Harper

http://www.vistarip.com


"dennis@home" wrote in message
news


"jim" wrote in message
. ..

"Malke" wrote in message
...
jim wrote:
If you wanted to clean ALL traces of your activity from a PC before
selling it or giving it away, what would be the best way to do that
without a format and complete re-install of the OS?

You can't. Even with a format, data recovery software can retrieve
files. The only way to make sure there is nothing left of your activity
is to wipe the hard drive (Darik's Boot and Nuke is free; Acronis Disk
Cleanser is good but not free) or smash it with a sledge hammer.


Malke
--
Elephant Boy Computers
www.elephantboycomputers.com
"Don't Panic!"
MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User

Thanks for the info - http://dban.sourceforge.net/ for those that want
it too.

Apart from the fact that its impossible to guarantee to erase a hard disk
of all information using /any/ software you can get.
The mechanical tolerances mean that the erase head can never be
guaranteed to actually pass over the entire track and will not leave some
remains at the edge of the track which can be read if someone wants to
put in the effort.

The claims made by software writers are not really justified and any
disks with secrets on them should be physically destroyed.

Remove the hard drive, smash it with a hammer, replace it with a new one.
That's the only way to be 100% sure.

--
Richard G. Harper [MVP Shell/User]
* NEW! Catch my blog ... http://msmvps.com/blogs/rgharper/
* PLEASE post all messages and replies in the newsgroups
* The Website - http://rgharper.mvps.org/
* HELP us help YOU ... http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm


"jim" wrote in message
.. .
If you wanted to clean ALL traces of your activity from a PC before
selling it or giving it away, what would be the best way to do that
without a format and complete re-install of the OS?

"Richard G. Harper" wrote in message
...
Remove the hard drive, smash it with a hammer, replace it with a new one.
That's the only way to be 100% sure.

--
Richard G. Harper [MVP Shell/User]
* NEW! Catch my blog ... http://msmvps.com/blogs/rgharper/
* PLEASE post all messages and replies in the newsgroups
* The Website - http://rgharper.mvps.org/
* HELP us help YOU ... http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm


"jim" wrote in message
.. .
If you wanted to clean ALL traces of your activity from a PC before
selling it or giving it away, what would be the best way to do that
without a format and complete re-install of the OS?




You forgot the plasma furnace .. a plasma furnace will turn the smashed
remains into inert dust. After smashing the drive with a hammer it should be
thrown into a plasma furnace.

[New capabilities come with plasma furnace]
http://media.www.iowastatedaily.com/...-1093382.shtml

Saucy

jim wrote:
If you wanted to clean ALL traces of your activity from a PC before selling
it or giving it away, what would be the best way to do that without a format
and complete re-install of the OS?




A format and reinstallation would be the bare *minimum* precaution.

To protect personal or business information and data from any
future users of average skills, you should, at the very least, format
the hard drive. If you wish to do a more thorough job of protecting the
data, WipeDrive
(http://www.whitecanyon.com/wipedrive...hard-drive.php) meets U.S.
DoD standards for securely cleaning surplus unclassified hard drives,
and could be used before formatting and reinstalling the OS and
applications.

--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell

The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
killed a great many philosophers.
~ Denis Diderot

jim wrote:
If you wanted to clean ALL traces of your activity from a PC before
selling it or giving it away, what would be the best way to do that
without a format and complete re-install of the OS?

I'd either replace the hard disk drive and keep mine (the new hard disk
would have nothing on it) *or* I would use something like Darik's Boot and
Nuke to completely blow away everything on the hard disk drive.

I would then provide those who bought the system with the method to restore
the system to it's 'as purchased originally' state (like a Windows XP CD and
whatever applications they should get CD) and some short set of instructions
on what to do to install the OS/apps if any back on the machine.

Either way I know that what they got was nothing I am concerned over and
they know whatever they got is clean and legitimate. They get to do what I
always recommend anyway - clean install a used system - and they know they
can do that whenever they need to in case of a problem. They actually get a
complete system.

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html