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A Good Disk Wiper Tool/Utility
Hi,
My son, who lives out of state, bought a new computer and wants to donate his WinXP desktop PC to Good Will or other. I told him that he should "wipe" (clear his personal data) the hard drive first. Can anyone recommend a good "wiper" type program? Thank You in advance, John |
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A Good Disk Wiper Tool/Utility
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A Good Disk Wiper Tool/Utility
wrote:
Hi, My son, who lives out of state, bought a new computer and wants to donate his WinXP desktop PC to Good Will or other. I told him that he should "wipe" (clear his personal data) the hard drive first. Can anyone recommend a good "wiper" type program? Thank You in advance, John https://sourceforge.net/projects/dba...an/dban-2.3.0/ dban-2.3.0_i586.iso 2015-06-04 16.7 MB That makes a bootable CD. Make sure that only the drives to be erased are connected to the machine when you boot that. People have deleted their "backup" drive with that by accident. ******* A Linux LiveCD and a copy of "dd" can do it too. This does a single pass of zeros, from end to end on SDB drive. sudo dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdb bs=8192 You can use "sudo gparted" to view the hard drives. Just as a viewer app. A few of the distros, don't actually have gparted loaded, so you tyoe just this and follow the instructions to get it. gparted To use "dd" to erase with random data, you'd do sudo dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/sdb bs=8192 Linux has two random number generators. One generates random numbers from an "entropy pit". The OS has ways of collecting naturally occurring events, and using their time stamp, as part of the randomness. The unfortunate limitation of this source (which is good for generating crypto keys), is the "pit" isn't deep enough, to provide data for the entire erasure run. A second random number generator, uses mersenne twister or similar. Which is a pseudo-random number generator, and perfect for disk erasure. The urandom one, runs at your disk speed or higher, and should not limit the erasure speed. Whereas, if you used /dev/random in the above command, it could "take the entire age of the universe" to complete. I actually made that mistake once, and saw progress grind to a halt. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki//dev/random ******* Windows even has an erasure method. If you boot a modern installer DVD, you can get to a Command Prompt window. You can use diskpart typed into the Command Prompt window. When you run commands in the Command Prompt from an installer or rescue CD, you are sufficiently elevated for this. diskpart list disk select disk 2 list partitions --- just for fun select partition 1 detail partition --- if you weren't sure what will get erased clean all --- Erases every sector on disk 2 (nuclear). There is no recovery from this. No Photorec. No Recuva. This is *not* tossing in Trash. exit The only reason I didn't list that one first, is not everyone has a collection of installer material sitting around. I've used this quite a few times. The reason I use that, is for "research" purposes. Say you need a disk in a known state. Like, you zero it from end to end. Then you use Disk Management to make a "Dynamic Disk". Well, the metadata is up near the end of the disk (somewhere), and you want it to "stand out like a sore thumb". You can use your hex editor, open the volume, and look up near the end and easily find it. Since most of the disk is zeroed, any non-zero material really stands out. (A hex editor, if you don't have one. Opens files. Opens whole disks, as Administrator, for a look at the raw sectors without regard to file system.) https://mh-nexus.de/en/hxd ******* "Slaving" the drive, up to another computer, would also allow erasing it. But I put that even further down in the list, because a brand new computer bought today, won't have an IDE connector, to connect the hard drive from the WinXP PC. And I wouldn't want anyone to be "disappointed" by the lacking materials inside a new PC. You might not have a PCI slot for your old sound card. You won't have a floppy drive connector. You won't have an IDE connector. That's the status quo. And while Intel has tried to expunge the SuperIO and the Hardware monitor, you'll still find those in one form or another on a modern PC. For example, my newest machine (which isn't all that new), it has a SuperIO with a serial port on it! Which means one less dongle to buy, and it has a fixed address in hardware space. Paul |
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A Good Disk Wiper Tool/Utility
jaugustine wrote:
Can anyone recommend a good "wiper" type program? killdisk.com A portable application so no install required. The Gutmann paranoia scheme (35 passes) is not needed, won't effect a deeper wipe, and just wastes time. That was back for magnetic media for hard disks that used an ancient technology that has not been applicable in maybe 2 decades. No one has those drives except for collectors and the Smithsonian Institute. Even 3 passes is excessive. 2 passes even of a pseudo-random pattern is sufficient against prying. A single pass of zeroes (which is what the free version of Killdisk does) is sufficient for protection when transferring the drive since the next person is unlikely to incur the expense of the necessary lab equipment to extract the data. If you/he wants something more than one pass of zeroes, there's Heidi's Eraser (https://eraser.heidi.ie/) to use other patterns, like zeroes, ones, and then pseudo-random, and vary the pass counts. You can use the portable version if you don't want to install the software (https://portableapps.com/apps/security/eraser-portable). There is also Darik's Boot and Nuke (aka DBAN) at https://dban.org/ which is bootable so no install required. |
#5
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A Good Disk Wiper Tool/Utility
SNIP
A Linux LiveCD and a copy of "dd" can do it too. This does a single pass of zeros, from end to end on SDB drive. sudo dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdb bs=8192 Hi Paul, My son is not a computer "savy" person. Since my son doesn't have any "top secret" information on the hard drive, I thought about sending him a copy of my Linux "AntiX" V16.2 CD, with my instructions on how to install that OS after it Formats the HD. I have installed AntiX on 2 computers so far. The format I believe is Unix. Note: My son said he does NOT have a WinXP system CD. Therefore, the PC will have an OS (AntiX) when he donates his PC. What do you think? Again, Thank You in advance, John You can use "sudo gparted" to view the hard drives. Just as a viewer app. A few of the distros, don't actually have gparted loaded, so you tyoe just this and follow the instructions to get it. gparted To use "dd" to erase with random data, you'd do sudo dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/sdb bs=8192 Linux has two random number generators. One generates random numbers from an "entropy pit". The OS has ways of collecting naturally occurring events, and using their time stamp, as part of the randomness. The unfortunate limitation of this source (which is good for generating crypto keys), is the "pit" isn't deep enough, to provide data for the entire erasure run. A second random number generator, uses mersenne twister or similar. Which is a pseudo-random number generator, and perfect for disk erasure. The urandom one, runs at your disk speed or higher, and should not limit the erasure speed. Whereas, if you used /dev/random in the above command, it could "take the entire age of the universe" to complete. I actually made that mistake once, and saw progress grind to a halt. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki//dev/random ******* Windows even has an erasure method. If you boot a modern installer DVD, you can get to a Command Prompt window. You can use diskpart typed into the Command Prompt window. When you run commands in the Command Prompt from an installer or rescue CD, you are sufficiently elevated for this. diskpart list disk select disk 2 list partitions --- just for fun select partition 1 detail partition --- if you weren't sure what will get erased clean all --- Erases every sector on disk 2 (nuclear). There is no recovery from this. No Photorec. No Recuva. This is *not* tossing in Trash. exit The only reason I didn't list that one first, is not everyone has a collection of installer material sitting around. I've used this quite a few times. The reason I use that, is for "research" purposes. Say you need a disk in a known state. Like, you zero it from end to end. Then you use Disk Management to make a "Dynamic Disk". Well, the metadata is up near the end of the disk (somewhere), and you want it to "stand out like a sore thumb". You can use your hex editor, open the volume, and look up near the end and easily find it. Since most of the disk is zeroed, any non-zero material really stands out. (A hex editor, if you don't have one. Opens files. Opens whole disks, as Administrator, for a look at the raw sectors without regard to file system.) https://mh-nexus.de/en/hxd ******* "Slaving" the drive, up to another computer, would also allow erasing it. But I put that even further down in the list, because a brand new computer bought today, won't have an IDE connector, to connect the hard drive from the WinXP PC. And I wouldn't want anyone to be "disappointed" by the lacking materials inside a new PC. You might not have a PCI slot for your old sound card. You won't have a floppy drive connector. You won't have an IDE connector. That's the status quo. And while Intel has tried to expunge the SuperIO and the Hardware monitor, you'll still find those in one form or another on a modern PC. For example, my newest machine (which isn't all that new), it has a SuperIO with a serial port on it! Which means one less dongle to buy, and it has a fixed address in hardware space. Paul |
#7
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A Good Disk Wiper Tool/Utility
SNIP
You can download DBAN at your end. Just the ~16MB ISO file. https://sourceforge.net/projects/dba...an/dban-2.3.0/ Connect a sacrificial hard drive to your test PC (just one hard drive, a small one), boot the DBAN CD, and erase the drive. Then, based on the experience, write up a procedure and send it and the CD to your son. I can even do this in a virtual machine, to demonstrate. https://s1.postimg.org/4v2s35o427/dban.gif Installing AntiX would be for bonus points. As otherwise, first you'd have to run AntiX in Live Mode, thoroughly erase the drive, *then* start an AntiX install. Paul Hi Paul, After I posted my last message about sending my son a copy of Linux, AntiX, I decided to take your suggestion about dban and I downloaded it. I am sending my son an email with the link you provided plus some information about "burning" a CD with that .ISO image file. I also told him, if he is unsure how to "burn" an image file onto a CD, I will do it and mail it to him. In the same email, I told my son, "After you "wipe" the hard drive, put a note on the computer to indicate that "This computer has NO Operating System Installed" before you donate it to Good Will or other. Somebody will buy it if he/she has a OS system disk eg. Windows, Linux, etc." Again, Thanks, John PS, Also, Thanks again to Vanguard & J.P. Gilliver for your suggestions. |
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A Good Disk Wiper Tool/Utility
jaugustine wrote:
Since my son doesn't have any "top secret" information on the hard drive, I thought about sending him a copy of my Linux "AntiX" V16.2 CD, with my instructions on how to install that OS after it Formats the HD. I have installed AntiX on 2 computers so far. The format I believe is Unix. Formatting does not erase the clusters on a hard disk. Installing any software, OS or otherwise, only overwrites a portion of the disk while the rest remains untouched. What are you going to do about wiping the rest of the disk (that was used but won't be with just an OS install)? Note: My son said he does NOT have a WinXP system CD. Therefore, the PC will have an OS (AntiX) when he donates his PC. Why does there have to be an OS on the hard disk to donate it? Why not leave the choice of an OS to whomever gets the old computer? |
#9
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A Good Disk Wiper Tool/Utility
In message , VanguardLH
writes: [] Formatting does not erase the clusters on a hard disk. Installing any A quick format doesn't; I think a full one does. [] Why does there have to be an OS on the hard disk to donate it? Why not leave the choice of an OS to whomever gets the old computer? If he's donating it to a charity, or similar, not for their own use but to sell, they'd probably appreciate having a working computer, not just a box of parts - unless they have a refurbisher on staff. Might be worth asking them before doing anything. -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf The main and the most glorious achievement of television is that it is killing the art of conversation. If we think of the type of conversation television is helping to kill, our gratitude must be undying. (George Mikes, "How to be Inimitable" [1960].) |
#10
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A Good Disk Wiper Tool/Utility
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
VanguardLH WROTE: Formatting does not erase the clusters on a hard disk. Installing any A quick format doesn't; I think a full one does. Nope hence the availability of utilities to rescue partitions and files. Why does there have to be an OS on the hard disk to donate it? Why not leave the choice of an OS to whomever gets the old computer? If he's donating it to a charity, or similar, not for their own use but to sell, they'd probably appreciate having a working computer, not just a box of parts - unless they have a refurbisher on staff. Might be worth asking them before doing anything. Using your argument, what's the chance the donee will be a Linux educated user? Yeah, whoop-de-do, about 3% chance. So there is a 97% chance the donee, as far as they are concerned, is only getting hardware (a box of parts) and will also have to ensure they wipe the drive or do a fresh Windows install and then wipe free space. https://www.netmarketshare.com/opera...10&qpcustomd=0 Since the son is the "not too bright" type per the OP's description, why would the son be getting a new computer devoid of an OS (and, in this case, very likely a pre-installed instance of Windows)? Yeah, his new computer will already have Windows on it with its separate licensing. The license for Windows XP on his old computer can go with that donated computer. In fact, consider the user description, it is also likely that it is an OEM license of Windows on that old computer so there's no point in trying to hang onto the old license since it got locked to that old computer where it got installed. If it is a name-brand computer, it might have a hidden partition: use the boot menu to use that hidden partition to restore the OS to factory state. Else, and due to missing CDs, the manual might describe how to run a utility provided by the OEM that creates the bootable CDs to do a fresh OS install (from an image or run a setup program). Since Windows XP is already installed, why not leave it there? Obviously those disk clusters are nothing to be keep secret (that's code from Microsoft that every user of Windows XP has). Just delete all his data files, uninstall any apps whose licenses he want to move to his new computer (provided they aren't OEM licenses), and then do a wipe of just the free space on the disk. That would have a 97% chance that the donee gets a working computer and not just a "box of parts" (since Linux is extremely likely to also provide the donee with just a "box of parts"). A wipe is still recommended but the user could do the factory restore and then use a tool that just wipes the free space (quicker than a full wipe). Or leave OEM licensed Windows XP installed, delete the data files, uninstall the apps to use on a new computer that have movable (retail, non-OEM) licenses, and wipe the free space. |
#11
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A Good Disk Wiper Tool/Utility
In message , VanguardLH
writes: J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: VanguardLH WROTE: Formatting does not erase the clusters on a hard disk. Installing any A quick format doesn't; I think a full one does. Nope hence the availability of utilities to rescue partitions and files. OK. What _does_ a non-quick format do then, that a quick one doesn't? [] If he's donating it to a charity, or similar, not for their own use but to sell, they'd probably appreciate having a working computer, not just a box of parts - unless they have a refurbisher on staff. Might be worth asking them before doing anything. Using your argument, what's the chance the donee will be a Linux educated user? Yeah, whoop-de-do, about 3% chance. So there is a 97% chance the donee, as far as they are concerned, is only getting hardware (a box of parts) and will also have to ensure they wipe the drive or do a fresh Windows install and then wipe free space. My point exactly. [] computer. In fact, consider the user description, it is also likely that it is an OEM license of Windows on that old computer so there's no point in trying to hang onto the old license since it got locked to that old computer where it got installed. If it is a name-brand computer, it That's also my point. might have a hidden partition: use the boot menu to use that hidden partition to restore the OS to factory state. Else, and due to missing That would be a good idea. (Does doing _that_ wipe free space though?) But only assuming the donor is capable. [] Since Windows XP is already installed, why not leave it there? That was my thought. (But read on.) Obviously those disk clusters are nothing to be keep secret (that's code from Microsoft that every user of Windows XP has). Just delete all his data files, uninstall any apps whose licenses he want to move to his new And remove assorted hidden settings that might not have been thought of (such as wifi keys). computer (provided they aren't OEM licenses), and then do a wipe of just the free space on the disk. That would have a 97% chance that the donee [] A wipe is still recommended but the user could do the factory restore That would be the best, _if_ it's available (and the donor can do it). and then use a tool that just wipes the free space (quicker than a full The wipe could be just filling the disc with innocuous files. wipe). Or leave OEM licensed Windows XP installed, delete the data files, uninstall the apps to use on a new computer that have movable (retail, non-OEM) licenses, and wipe the free space. -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf science is not intended to be foolproof. Science is about crawling toward the truth over time. - Scott Adams, 2015-2-2 |
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A Good Disk Wiper Tool/Utility
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
OK. What _does_ a non-quick format do then, that a quick one doesn't? Reads all the sectors. Updates $BADCLUS based on the results. (Segregates bad clusters so the file system doesn't use them.) That's my understanding at least. I don't think I've ever fired up any forensic tools to see what it's doing. Paul |
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A Good Disk Wiper Tool/Utility
In message , Paul
writes: J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: OK. What _does_ a non-quick format do then, that a quick one doesn't? Reads all the sectors. Ah - just a read. I'd assumed it did a write. Updates $BADCLUS based on the results. (Segregates bad clusters so the file system doesn't use them.) That's my understanding at least. I don't think I've ever fired up any forensic tools to see what it's doing. Paul -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf What a strange illusion it is to suppose that beauty is goodness. -Leo Tolstoy, novelist and philosopher (1828-1910) |
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A Good Disk Wiper Tool/Utility
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
VanguardLH WROTE: J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: VanguardLH WROTE: Formatting does not erase the clusters on a hard disk. A quick format doesn't; I think a full one does. Nope hence the availability of utilities to rescue partitions and files. OK. What _does_ a non-quick format do then, that a quick one doesn't? A full format is similar to running "chkdsk.exe /r drive:". It makes sure all clusters are readable, not just those that are currently allocated in the file system. That a cluster is readable does not mean it is stable. It may be weak but just enough readable to pass the test, like a C-grade student getting a diploma versus a straight-A student getting one. https://support.wdc.com/knowledgebas...r.aspx?ID=1217 Note: "files are removed" is misleading. The records for those files are deallocated in the file system. Not even those records are wiped, just deallocated (the clusters for those files are freed up for reuse). Also, some files are so small (under 4K in size) that the file system doesn't bother allocating separate clusters for those files. Instead those files are stored right inside that 4K file record in the MFT. Why waste clusters outside the MFT when the small file will fit inside the file record that has the space for the file? Deallocating a file record does not wipe the MFT file record nor wipe the clusters of the file that are outside the MFT. "Removing" a file from the file system does not wipe where it is stored. More simply, Quick Format deallocates the clusters for the files while Full Format does the same but also scans ALL sectors to look for any that are unreadable. However, that software-based check will perform multiple retries to overcome transient errors, plus the firmware on the disk will perform multiple retries for each of those software-based retries. So, in effect, a sector on the platter may get read many times trying to return one successful read (the number of software tries times the number of firmware tries). A long time back, I found a full format or chkdsk /r was doing 5 retries and the drive that I had back then was doing its own 3 retries (on each software retry), so the sector on the platter might be tried 15 times to get 1 success for the sector to get passed as OK. That's why I used SpinRite back then to be a better test of not just bad sectors but also to find weak sectors. Retentivity wanes over time (dipole stress) so a sector never rewritten, even with the same data, will become unreliable. SpinRite has its Refresh option to compensate for that; however, that doesn't need to be ran for many years, and by then I've bought a newer drive that was either bigger or used newer technology to be faster. For the price of Spinrite, I could buy a new drive but it makes sense in a tech's toolbox that has to support all of a company's workstations. While I schedule "chkdsk /f drive:" on all my drives to ensure file system integrity has not deteriorated, I only run "chkdsk /r drive:" when I suspect problems, put in a new disk (with a partition that I'll keep rather than do a full format), or when I'm bored and spend some time maintaining the hardware, OS, and apps. While you could do a low-level format on MFM and RLL drives of old, you cannot do that with IDE or SATA drives. Those drives don't grant access to that level of physcial control. The disk maker does their own low-level format at the factory to find bad sectors and masks them out in a table stored with the firmware (so the firmware knows to skip those sectors). That is, what you get is not the maximum capacity of the disk but something less because bad sectors got masked out so nothing can access them. A low-level format is a physical format. The software- based format that you do is is a logical format to place a file system atop that physical format (and optionally scan for bad clusters which is the allocation unit size of the file system). |
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