Annoying printers

On 10/02/2018 04:31 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:

[snip]

Maybe you're just too damn fussy.* My 16 year old car is red, it was red
when it was made.* I have no desire to park it alongside a brand new
equivalent and compare the tone.

My 20 year old pickup is red (which the factory called "Victory Red").
It doesn't look faded, although it's been in a garage most of the time.

--
83 days until the winter celebration (Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:00:00 AM for 1
day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"No man ever got an answer to prayer that he could show to another
person." [Lemuel K. Washburn, _Is The Bible Worth Reading And Other
Essays_]

Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 10/02/2018 04:31 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:

[snip]

Maybe you're just too damn fussy.* My 16 year old car is red, it was red
when it was made.* I have no desire to park it alongside a brand new
equivalent and compare the tone.

My 20 year old pickup is red (which the factory called "Victory Red").
It doesn't look faded, although it's been in a garage most of the time.

It probably depends a lot on the climate. Here in The Netherlands [1],
a lot of old red cars are no longer red. The red has faded and there's a
whitish 'mist' on them. It looks especially bad, because the colour
hasn't faded equally over the whole car. I had one red car, never again
[2] [3] [4] [5].

[1] We don't have a climate, only weather.

[2] Well I had several red ones, but the others were company cars, so
before they got a chance to fade, I had already gotten another.

[3] I had never so many near-accidents (caused by others) as with red
cars. I.e. like other cars crossing the road just in front of you as if
you weren't there.

[4] OTOH, as long as it's a Ferrari, I don't mind having another red
one!

[5] This is the last footnote.

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Tue, 02 Oct 2018 20:27:53 +0100, nospam wrote:

In article , Jimmy Wilkinson
Knife wrote:

For true grey-scale printing with an ink jet, you need at least two
inks, a black and a grey. Creating grey scale has been a problem*
in the
printing trade ever since half tones were invented. Look up duotone
printing.

Most inkjets don't have grey.* Using colours won't help to create greys.

actually, it does.

multiple greys are better, but mixing cmy is an alternative.

Less black makes grey.

Yes, but there are different greys. In graphics there is 'black' and
'rich black'.

The former is 'knockout black' where other colors are masked and only
black ink is deposited, and the later is 'overprint black' where black
is printed over color inks. CYMK 0,0,0,100 vs 100,100,100,100. The same
goes for greys. Using color makes different shades of greys, warm greys
and cool greys.

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
In civilised countries, the letterbox is in the front door, the mail
goes inside the house.

My mailbox at the end of my driveway and is over 1,000 feet from my
front door. Not everybody lives on a tenth acre lot.

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

On 10/1/2018 12:41 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
Why is it, that in the 21st century, printers never do what you tell them to? They forget you want landscape, they forget the number of copies, they refuse to cancel a job you've sent, they try to use colour ink for a black and white image and take 5 times longer, they can't feed a piece of paper without jamming it, the nozzles clog up every five minutes, the ink cartridges are stupidly small, and they **** about for ten minutes doing god knows what, spinning the roller and moving the cartridge back and forth for no reason before they get to work!


You need a laser printer!

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On Wed, 03 Oct 2018 16:54:01 +0100, Jonathan N. Little wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Tue, 02 Oct 2018 20:27:53 +0100, nospam wrote:

In article , Jimmy Wilkinson
Knife wrote:

For true grey-scale printing with an ink jet, you need at least two
inks, a black and a grey. Creating grey scale has been a problemin the
printing trade ever since half tones were invented. Look up duotone
printing.

Most inkjets don't have grey. Using colours won't help to create greys.

actually, it does.

multiple greys are better, but mixing cmy is an alternative.

Less black makes grey.

Yes, but there are different greys. In graphics there is 'black' and
'rich black'.

The former is 'knockout black' where other colors are masked and only
black ink is deposited, and the later is 'overprint black' where black
is printed over color inks. CYMK 0,0,0,100 vs 100,100,100,100. The same
goes for greys. Using color makes different shades of greys, warm greys
and cool greys.

Except I didn't want any of those, I asked for a non-colour image.

On Wed, 03 Oct 2018 17:22:16 +0100, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:

On 10/1/2018 12:41 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
Why is it, that in the 21st century, printers never do what you tell them to? They forget you want landscape, they forget the number of copies, they refuse to cancel a job you've sent, they try to use colour ink for a black and white image and take 5 times longer, they can't feed a piece of paper without jamming it, the nozzles clog up every five minutes, the ink cartridges are stupidly small, and they **** about for ten minutes doing god knows what, spinning the roller and moving the cartridge back and forth for no reason before they get to work!


You need a laser printer!

And of course they never **** up....

Wolf K wrote:
The inks are dyes. That's why inks are CMYK, and not BRYK. Some of the
light travels through the ink and is reflected off the substrate. The
result is an unpredictable mix of additive and subtractive colours.
That's why the driver has plain, matte, and glossy paper paper settings,
etc. Try printing on plain paper with the glossy paper setting to have
some inkling of how these factors interact.

BRYK? Red-Yellow-Blue for pigmented primaries as in oil paints? Whether
dyes or pigments the process is subtractive color primaries. Additive
primaries are RGB where light is transmitted as with a monitor or TV.

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

On Wed, 03 Oct 2018 19:39:26 +0100, Wolf K wrote:

On 2018-10-03 14:19, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Wed, 03 Oct 2018 16:54:01 +0100, Jonathan N. Little
wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Tue, 02 Oct 2018 20:27:53 +0100, nospam
wrote:

In article , Jimmy Wilkinson
Knife wrote:

For true grey-scale printing with an ink jet, you need at least two
inks, a black and a grey. Creating grey scale has been a
problemin the
printing trade ever since half tones were invented. Look up duotone
printing.

Most inkjets don't have grey. Using colours won't help to create
greys.

actually, it does.

multiple greys are better, but mixing cmy is an alternative.

Less black makes grey.

Yes, but there are different greys. In graphics there is 'black' and
'rich black'.

The former is 'knockout black' where other colors are masked and only
black ink is deposited, and the later is 'overprint black' where black
is printed over color inks. CYMK 0,0,0,100 vs 100,100,100,100. The same
goes for greys. Using color makes different shades of greys, warm greys
and cool greys.

Except I didn't want any of those, I asked for a non-colour image.

Not possible. Read up on additive and subtractive colours, and colour
perception.

BTW, you know the black wax crayons you used when you were a kid?
They're not actually black, as you can determine for yourself by
streaking a bit of black crayon across the paper, then adding a solvent
to dilute the wax. A truly black wax crayon isn't possible, because it
would have to be basically solid carbon. The colour in wax crayons is
dye, not pigment. A pigment "crayon" is termed a pastel crayon/stick.

I find it hard to believe you get better black from cyan yellow and magenta than from black.

So tell me, how did black and white inkjets work?

On Wed, 03 Oct 2018 16:58:52 +0100, Jonathan N. Little wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
In civilised countries, the letterbox is in the front door, the mail
goes inside the house.

My mailbox at the end of my driveway and is over 1,000 feet from my
front door. Not everybody lives on a tenth acre lot.

So you have to walk 1000 feet to get your mail, wonderful. Why not have the big garden BEHIND your house?

On Wed, 03 Oct 2018 16:58:52 +0100, Jonathan N. Little wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
In civilised countries, the letterbox is in the front door, the mail
goes inside the house.

My mailbox at the end of my driveway and is over 1,000 feet from my
front door. Not everybody lives on a tenth acre lot.

They do in the UK. Who the **** thought it was a good idea to cram 65 million people into such a tiny island?

On Wed, 03 Oct 2018 14:58:35 +0100, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On 10/02/2018 04:31 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:

[snip]

Maybe you're just too damn fussy. My 16 year old car is red, it was red
when it was made. I have no desire to park it alongside a brand new
equivalent and compare the tone.

My 20 year old pickup is red (which the factory called "Victory Red").
It doesn't look faded, although it's been in a garage most of the time.

I tried to sell a red car once. ONE of the ten clips that held the rear bumper on was broken (I hadn't even noticed - it literally made the bumper droop by 3mm). The OCD ****wit trying to buy it did notice. He said he'd have to replace the entire bumper, so I gave him some money off the asking price to shut him up. Then he asked me what colour the car was so he could match a new bumper. I laughed and said "red". Apparently there's several reds....

On Wed, 03 Oct 2018 16:35:58 +0100, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 10/02/2018 04:31 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:

[snip]

Maybe you're just too damn fussy. My 16 year old car is red, it was red
when it was made. I have no desire to park it alongside a brand new
equivalent and compare the tone.

My 20 year old pickup is red (which the factory called "Victory Red").
It doesn't look faded, although it's been in a garage most of the time.

It probably depends a lot on the climate. Here in The Netherlands [1],
a lot of old red cars are no longer red. The red has faded and there's a
whitish 'mist' on them. It looks especially bad, because the colour
hasn't faded equally over the whole car. I had one red car, never again
[2] [3] [4] [5].

[1] We don't have a climate, only weather.

[2] Well I had several red ones, but the others were company cars, so
before they got a chance to fade, I had already gotten another.

[3] I had never so many near-accidents (caused by others) as with red
cars. I.e. like other cars crossing the road just in front of you as if
you weren't there.

Huh? Red is the easiest to see, I'd say black was hardest.

[4] OTOH, as long as it's a Ferrari, I don't mind having another red
one!

[5] This is the last footnote.

On Wed, 03 Oct 2018 14:47:57 +0100, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On 10/02/2018 01:09 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:

[snip]

In civilised countries, the letterbox is in the front door, the mail
goes inside the house.

Around here, only older neighborhoods have that. For awhile, my father
had one. You'd often come in the front room and find mail on the floor.
In newer neighborhoods like where I live, mailboxes are along the street
so the mail carrier doesn't have to leave his vehicle (except for
packages too big for the box, and certified mail requiring a signature).

Huh? The mailman will be delivering letters to me and half the people in my street. He parks his van at one end and walks along the street posting all the mail.

On Wed, 03 Oct 2018 09:16:36 +0100, Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:

On Tue, 02 Oct 2018 22:31:26 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife"
wrote:

On Tue, 02 Oct 2018 20:32:10 +0100, nospam wrote:

In article , Jimmy Wilkinson
Knife wrote:

The articles seem to think that red pigment is pretty
good. If that's the case, why can't we have red cars
where the color stays good for the life of the car ?
The "red" used in paints isn't very good.

I don't know how you come to that conclusion. I've never seen a car where the
paint has faded, even when old enough so that the mechanical parts are beyond repair.

bull****. all paint fades, some more than others. ask any auto body
shop how they match paint after a repair.

Maybe you're just too damn fussy. My 16 year old car is red, it was red when it was made. I have no desire to park it alongside a brand new equivalent and compare the tone.

I remember comparing my last car when it was 12 years old with a brand
new one. The colour looked the same apart from an area where it had
been resprayed. I think the respray paint fades a bit.

Or it's not precisely the same in the first place. Why do we need 50 shades of red anyway?