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#46
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[OT] Atlantis Word Processor
On 2/06/2014, Shadow posted:
On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 11:28:29 -0800, Gene E. Bloch wrote: On 2/06/2014, Shadow posted: On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 12:28:23 -0500, "Silver Slimer" wrote: I can't say I've seen the same thing here. Firefox on this machine (WinXP), starts in one second. While viewing no web page content, memory consumption in Task Manager is listed as 35MB. And, I've never had a freeze due to Firefox or Thunderbird. Meanwhile, browser reviewers have all pointed out that Firefox is the slowest to start. Not one has recorded a one-second start for Firefox on a cold start and they used i7 processors. Reviewers are expensive. Only Micro$oft and Google can afford the best. []'s To be consistent, you should spell the later company name as GoogŁe. It was not voluntary. I do not have the "s" letter on this keyboard, it's one of those communist open-source ones, so I have to use "$"....... I thought Thatcher sold England by the Pound, not GoogŁe. Ah, maybe they bought it .... hum. OK, I'll put an OT up there. I'm good at that. []'s I'm sorry about your keyboard. Good luck in managing to get by with it. You should have bought the model with walrus ivory keys. They all have s's so they can say "walrus". They also all have l's too - same reason. -- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) |
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#47
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Atlantis Word Processor
On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 12:51:03 -0500, Silver Slimer wrote:
On 05/02/2014 12:39 PM, Char Jackson wrote: And what exactly is the issue with .ODT? My gripe would be that they've selected an obscure filetype as the default rather than a common filetype. It's academic, though, because I'm happy with MS Word. .ODT isn't that obscure anymore. .OGG might be as an audio type but .ODT support is included in Wordpad so you know that it's become common enough. The advantage of open formats in general is that you never have to worry about support for that format disappearing. Likewise, I don't worry about not being able to open my .doc files. |
#48
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Atlantis Word Processor
On Wed, 5 Feb 2014 15:29:51 -0600, "BillW50" wrote:
"Char Jackson" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 10:42:15 -0500, Silver Slimer wrote: On 05/02/2014 10:36 AM, Char Jackson wrote: On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 08:56:00 -0500, Silver Slimer wrote: The biggest gripe I have with Atlantis is that it saves to .RTF by default. I can understand that they would avoid .DOC or .DOCX due to their proprietary nature and the high potential for them to screw up the format due to lack of compatibility but there's no reason for them to ignore a format like .ODT which is open to everyone and superior to .RTF. If they were to follow your suggestion, my biggest gripe would be that the default file type is .ODT. And what exactly is the issue with .ODT? My gripe would be that they've selected an obscure filetype as the default rather than a common filetype. It's academic, though, because I'm happy with MS Word. What difference does it make? You can always change the default. Heck I didn't like the defaults of MS Word either. You probably meant to reply to Silver Slimer. |
#49
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Atlantis Word Processor
In message , BillW50
writes: "VanguardLH" wrote in message ... [] So you're going to make someone bounce between a word processor and spreadsheet program just to, for example, see a list of ingredients in a recipe? Naw, MS Word can read Excel tables right inside of a Word document. This is called integration. I guess we should avoid the word "table". If you mean a grid (with or without visible lines), then a spreadsheet - Excel or other - is NOT the way to make it. (Microsoft haven't helped by putting grid-helping facilities in Excel; I suppose "the customer is always right" so they had to, rather than telling the customer s/he was a twit for doing it that way.) A *spreadsheet* is for data on which calculations are anticipated. Granted, not _all_ the columns/rows will have sums done on them - I've nothing against column and row headings - but if _all_ you want is the _layout_, don't use a spreadsheet. (VanguardLH [what's the origin of that name by the way?] are for once in agreement on something!) Ever read a newspaper or even a small one-page flyer? Really, that's your argument for not supporting tables in a word processor, that you don't need columnar formatting ever? I don't think of columns as tables per se. By the way, Atlantis does support columns. I find true columns as Word implements them rather clunky, though I can see that if I was doing things that use them a lot, I'd use them. If I just want a short section to have columns, I'm likely to use a table. That's a Word table, of course - not a spreadsheet. Uh huh, and I suppose you never used the tab key to align text either in a single or multiple columns. Indeed, for a simple case. (At least it's better than using spaces, which I've - in pain! - seen people do. Especially with non-monospaced text!) I've been using word processors and text editors since the early 80's. And back in the CP/M-DOS days I have created a few tables by using tab characters. But since then, I can't think of a single time I wanted to create a table (outside of a spreadsheet). And since I save lots of computer articles (I use plain text if I can get away with it). And tables just makes the task of converting to plain text a bit harder. Too many people are creating tables and using them for things that are totally unnecessary. I'm sure some are, but grid layout does make a lot of things easier to see at a glance. Tables in documents aren't necessarily and most times are not a spreadsheet with cells containing formulae. They are just a means of Hear hear! providing easy columnar *formatting*. So why bother with bolding, italics, spacing between paragraphs, justification, bullet lists, or any of that other unnecessary formatting fluff? Just with a plain text editor, like Notepad, if you think formatting is unimportant. I don't know, we do pretty well in plain text newsgroups without all of that stuff. Some experts claim that plain text doesn't contain formatting. But I disagree. Plain text can be formatted to contain many of the features you listed above. If you use monospaced text, then it isn't hard to make a table - grid - in plain text using tabs; most plain text handlers to actually handle tabs. [] That you don't need to use tables for columnar formatting is hardly an excuse for a word *processor* to omit the feature. I didn't even Agreed - tables should be included as part of a word processor (meaning grids, not a spreadsheet [though I think Word's tables can do very limited sums too!]). mention embedding a spreadsheet or range of cells from one into a document. I only mentioned tables which is a formatting feature. [] -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf no good deed goes unpunished. This is an iron-clad rule in Netiquette. |
#50
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Atlantis Word Processor
In message , Silver Slimer
writes: On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 06:31:08 -0500, BillW50 wrote: Take a look at Mozilla for example. I view their products as always under construction and will never be completed. You can't develop good software using this model. What you always end up with is bloated spaghetti code. Mozilla continues to use the outdated and insecure Netscape API for Flash and is the slowest of all browsers for a cold start. It provides I can't speak for other browsers - Firefox may well be slower than some; however, any comparison with IE is skewed by the fact that IE shares so much with the OS that comparison on a fair basis isn't possible. It was back in the Windows 95/98 days when it was possible to completely remove IE (google for IEradicator); then the startup times could be truly compared. But no other browser's startup time can now be fairly compared to IE. (Unless a proportion - and who is to say how much? - of the computer's boot time is considered to be part of IE's start time.) the best features but at the cost of more memory use and the potential of freezing the whole computer (my wife and I both experienced a frozen computer from Mozilla's garbage code on two entirely different laptops). Strange: MMVs. I frequently experience treacle-time at work which I directly trace to IE, and this was the case both under XP and 7. Granted, the main culprit is some grotty code my employer uses, which only works via IE: but, when it's making IE crawl or freeze, the rest of the computer is sluggish. And just this afternoon I experienced similar sluggishness here when using IE (I had to because of some websites [such as google images] which weren't/aren't displaying images in Firefox): the user experience was very similar. I do grant that, here, I'm less experienced with IE than F, and if I were more so _might_ get round the treacle-effect; that doesn't apply at work, though (where I have to use it anyway so am used to it). -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf no good deed goes unpunished. This is an iron-clad rule in Netiquette. |
#51
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Atlantis Word Processor
In message , Shadow
writes: [] Nice = The clickerty sound. It does not phone home. It saves [] Since you don't explain what you mean by "The clickerty sound", I can only assume you mean keyclicks. If you want those, http://www.leeos.com/noisy_keyboard.html (and the mouse one!) is (are!) still there - get them while they are, as the site doesn't seem to have been altered since 2003, so I imagine it may not be there much longer. It (they) work fine under XP (and many previous); whether 7 or not I don't know (I'd say there's a good chance as the integration seems to be well written). Don't use unless you live alone ... (-: -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf I think I'm sexy in a nerdy way, and I'm perfectly happy with that. That's quite a cool thing to be, all of a sudden. - Daniel Radcliffe, in Radio Times, 11-17 February 2012 |
#52
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Atlantis Word Processor
On 2/8/2014 8:35 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: In message
, BillW50 writes: "VanguardLH" wrote in message ... [] So you're going to make someone bounce between a word processor and spreadsheet program just to, for example, see a list of ingredients in a recipe? Naw, MS Word can read Excel tables right inside of a Word document. This is called integration. I guess we should avoid the word "table". If you mean a grid (with or without visible lines), then a spreadsheet - Excel or other - is NOT the way to make it. (Microsoft haven't helped by putting grid-helping facilities in Excel; I suppose "the customer is always right" so they had to, rather than telling the customer s/he was a twit for doing it that way.) A *spreadsheet* is for data on which calculations are anticipated. Granted, not _all_ the columns/rows will have sums done on them - I've nothing against column and row headings - but if _all_ you want is the _layout_, don't use a spreadsheet. (VanguardLH [what's the origin of that name by the way?] are for once in agreement on something!) Odd? If I need a blank form let's say for daily blood glucose readings, a spreadsheet is the way to do it. Why what would you use to create such a form? You would use a word processor? Ever read a newspaper or even a small one-page flyer? Really, that's your argument for not supporting tables in a word processor, that you don't need columnar formatting ever? I don't think of columns as tables per se. By the way, Atlantis does support columns. I find true columns as Word implements them rather clunky, though I can see that if I was doing things that use them a lot, I'd use them. If I just want a short section to have columns, I'm likely to use a table. That's a Word table, of course - not a spreadsheet. Sure if you were using Word, but the original topic was doing it under Atlantis. And Atlantis doesn't do tables. It does columns though. Uh huh, and I suppose you never used the tab key to align text either in a single or multiple columns. Indeed, for a simple case. (At least it's better than using spaces, which I've - in pain! - seen people do. Especially with non-monospaced text!) Actually some people strip tabs from documents and replace them with spaces for devices that doesn't use tab characters. Worse some software interprets tabs differently. I seem to recall most see a tab as eight character spacing. But not all use the same. Just look at a desktop with icons sometime. The labels are center aligned and non-monospaced font is used. And that looks just fine. I've been using word processors and text editors since the early 80's. And back in the CP/M-DOS days I have created a few tables by using tab characters. But since then, I can't think of a single time I wanted to create a table (outside of a spreadsheet). And since I save lots of computer articles (I use plain text if I can get away with it). And tables just makes the task of converting to plain text a bit harder. Too many people are creating tables and using them for things that are totally unnecessary. I'm sure some are, but grid layout does make a lot of things easier to see at a glance. Sure they can, like it makes a lot of sense in a spreadsheet. But not for setting the left and right margins of an article. Why do they do this? So it fits nicely on an iPhone or what? Tables in documents aren't necessarily and most times are not a spreadsheet with cells containing formulae. They are just a means of Hear hear! Don't forget that databases can do tables and you can process both letters and numerals. providing easy columnar *formatting*. So why bother with bolding, italics, spacing between paragraphs, justification, bullet lists, or any of that other unnecessary formatting fluff? Just with a plain text editor, like Notepad, if you think formatting is unimportant. I don't know, we do pretty well in plain text newsgroups without all of that stuff. Some experts claim that plain text doesn't contain formatting. But I disagree. Plain text can be formatted to contain many of the features you listed above. If you use monospaced text, then it isn't hard to make a table - grid - in plain text using tabs; most plain text handlers to actually handle tabs. True, and I use this all of the time. And it works in Atlantis as well. That you don't need to use tables for columnar formatting is hardly an excuse for a word *processor* to omit the feature. I didn't even Agreed - tables should be included as part of a word processor (meaning grids, not a spreadsheet [though I think Word's tables can do very limited sums too!]). Yes lots of word processors can do this including good old WordStar. Also most of them can sort a list in a column. This is much like a database function. -- Bill Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v24.3.0 Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 8 Pro w/Media Center |
#53
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Atlantis Word Processor
In message , BillW50
writes: [] You know, back in the 80's you didn't use GUI word processors for tables. You used a GUI publisher instead. Whatever happened to those? Interesting question! I guess GUI word processors got better (or at least computing power rose enough to make them work well enough to do what the publisher did) that they fell away. [] I can't think of a single time I wanted to create a table (outside of a spreadsheet). Oh, I do them all the time, and never use a spreadsheet to do them. [] editing. Seems you should be happy with Notepad in Windows and vim in Linux. Actually it is very tricky and one requires powerful word processors to pull it off with any productivity. No notepad is a very lousy tool for the job. As notepad has no line length rulers, no reformatting macros, no margins, etc. (There are Notepad alternatives that have various extras - I use Notepad+, which I think has rulers, for example; there are plenty of others.) [] Talking of small word processors, how big is WordPad? I was surprised to find it is still there in 7. I remember in the early days of Windows, finding that it did a lot of what I wanted from a WP. Then (though not now), there is the WP that was part of the Works suite, before that got nobbled (initially by replacing it with actual Word, and then removal of the Works suite altogether - I still suspect because MS found it was preventing sales of Office [and indirectly later Windows], as it was very economical with its resource demands [so also stopped people having to buy new computers]). -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf I think I'm sexy in a nerdy way, and I'm perfectly happy with that. That's quite a cool thing to be, all of a sudden. - Daniel Radcliffe, in Radio Times, 11-17 February 2012 |
#54
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Atlantis Word Processor
In message , BillW50
writes: [] Odd? If I need a blank form let's say for daily blood glucose readings, a spreadsheet is the way to do it. Why what would you use to create such a form? You would use a word processor? Why not? I'd use a spreadsheet if I was going to do sums on the figures, which for that example is quite possible (weekly totals and so on), so it's not an example I'd choose: I'd pick something like, say, a daily rota where you put names by days of the week (whose job it is to mop the floor and similar). For _that_, I see a word processor as no more onerous than a spreadsheet, and it would give me better text control. [] I find true columns as Word implements them rather clunky, though I can see that if I was doing things that use them a lot, I'd use them. If I just want a short section to have columns, I'm likely to use a table. That's a Word table, of course - not a spreadsheet. Sure if you were using Word, but the original topic was doing it under Atlantis. And Atlantis doesn't do tables. It does columns though. OK; if I was doing it in Word and hadn't familiarised myself with its table functions as much as I have, I'd probably use its column function. I certainly wouldn't use a spreadsheet. [] Actually some people strip tabs from documents and replace them with spaces for devices that doesn't use tab characters. Worse some software interprets tabs differently. I seem to recall most see a tab as eight character spacing. But not all use the same. Indeed. I remember _hardware_ (terminals - maybe VT100?) that took tabs as (make-up-to-)eight characters, but I agree, I've certainly seen some softwares that use other figures - some computer-language-oriented editors use 4, for example, though that's mainly a default that is alterable. Just look at a desktop with icons sometime. The labels are center aligned and non-monospaced font is used. And that looks just fine. (The non-monospacing is a default only of course). I'm not sure of the point you're making: desktops default to putting icons on a grid (with slight variations in what's available and what's the default, between different versions of Windows etc.). I'm not sure how that relates to the question/opinion of whether word processors should do grids or not. [] many people are creating tables and using them for things that are totally unnecessary. I'm sure some are, but grid layout does make a lot of things easier to see at a glance. Sure they can, like it makes a lot of sense in a spreadsheet. But not I'm still not sure if you're meaning "table" when you say "spreadsheet". For (another) example of where I'd use a grid, but not have any intention of doing sums on it, consider the comparison of features of several competing candidates - be it software (such as word processors!), models of car, whatever. I find _that_ sort of comparison - which models do tables, have central locking, whatever - much easier to follow in a _grid_ than if each just had its plus and minus points listed in a paragraph. (Salesmen, of course, like the latter, as they can list the good points without mentioning the omissions, and it's less obvious.) for setting the left and right margins of an article. Why do they do I think that's what they call a "straw man" - I'd never even think of using a spreadsheet just to set margins. (In fact, thinking of Excel which is the only spreadsheet I know well, margins are one of the bigger pains in that, IMO. In fact Excel is the least WYSIWYG part of Office - which is OK for its primary purpose, but doesn't make it good for _grids_.) this? So it fits nicely on an iPhone or what? Tables in documents aren't necessarily and most times are not a spreadsheet with cells containing formulae. They are just a means of Hear hear! Don't forget that databases can do tables and you can process both letters and numerals. Databases are a different matter again. (I did actually do a training course on the Office one - Agent is it? - but enough years ago that I've forgotten lots of it, including obviously the name!) [] That you don't need to use tables for columnar formatting is hardly an excuse for a word *processor* to omit the feature. I didn't even Agreed - tables should be included as part of a word processor (meaning grids, not a spreadsheet [though I think Word's tables can do very limited sums too!]). Yes lots of word processors can do this including good old WordStar. Also most of them can sort a list in a column. This is much like a database function. -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf I think I'm sexy in a nerdy way, and I'm perfectly happy with that. That's quite a cool thing to be, all of a sudden. - Daniel Radcliffe, in Radio Times, 11-17 February 2012 |
#55
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Atlantis Word Processor
Hi, John.
Databases are a different matter again. (I did actually do a training course on the Office one - Agent is it? - but enough years ago that I've forgotten lots of it, including obviously the name!) Microsoft Access I used it quite a bit in my CPA practice - but that ended over 20 years ago. I still have it installed (in Office 2010) in Win8.1 but almost never even open it. RC -- R. C. White, CPA San Marcos, TX Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010) Windows Live Mail 2012 (Build 16.4.3508.0205) in Win8.1 Pro "J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message ... SNIP -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf |
#56
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Atlantis Word Processor
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message ... In message , BillW50 writes: [] You know, back in the 80's you didn't use GUI word processors for tables. You used a GUI publisher instead. Whatever happened to those? Interesting question! I guess GUI word processors got better (or at least computing power rose enough to make them work well enough to do what the publisher did) that they fell away. I just checked one of my MS Office 2000 Pro CDs and Microsoft Publisher is on there. Anybody recall which was the last Office that had it? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Publisher Wow! It was never dropped. As it is still found in the more expensive versions of Office. [] I can't think of a single time I wanted to create a table (outside of a spreadsheet). Oh, I do them all the time, and never use a spreadsheet to do them. [] editing. Seems you should be happy with Notepad in Windows and vim in Linux. Actually it is very tricky and one requires powerful word processors to pull it off with any productivity. No notepad is a very lousy tool for the job. As notepad has no line length rulers, no reformatting macros, no margins, etc. (There are Notepad alternatives that have various extras - I use Notepad+, which I think has rulers, for example; there are plenty of others.) While I used Notepad+, there was something I didn't like about it. I do like NewtPad (newtpad.com) a lot ($20 to buy). While it works fine for plain text files, its main purpose is for writing programming scripts, etc. [] Talking of small word processors, how big is WordPad? I was surprised to find it is still there in 7. I remember in the early days of Windows, finding that it did a lot of what I wanted from a WP. Then (though not now), there is the WP that was part of the Works suite, before that got nobbled (initially by replacing it with actual Word, and then removal of the Works suite altogether - I still suspect because MS found it was preventing sales of Office [and indirectly later Windows], as it was very economical with its resource demands [so also stopped people having to buy new computers]). Last time I tried to figured out how to run WordPad as a stand alone application, I found WordPad isn't just one exe, but a number of files scattered all over the place. I think it might even need some dll files in the Windows folder. And before WordPad came around, early versions of Windows had Write instead. And even today if you type Write into a command prompt, WordPad pops up. Oh man, Works! Just about every Windows machine I ever purchased came with Works. The OEM license was something like 15 bucks I was told. Even this machine came with Works. I used just about every version from 2 to 9. And for me, it was almost good enough to use daily. The one feature which would have helped me a lot was if it supported macros. I think Microsoft left that one out as they knew they would lose a lot of Office sales if they included it in Works. At least in my case, I did purchase a lot of copies of Office because it had macro support. -- Bill Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Windows Live Mail 2009 v14 Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 8 Pro w/Media Center |
#57
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Atlantis Word Processor
On Sat, 8 Feb 2014 16:12:12 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote: Talking of small word processors, how big is WordPad? In Windows 8, it's 4,455 KB. But I wouldn't call it a word processor. To me it's nothing more than a glorified text editor. |
#58
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Atlantis Word Processor
In message , Ken Blake
writes: On Sat, 8 Feb 2014 16:12:12 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote: Talking of small word processors, how big is WordPad? In Windows 8, it's 4,455 KB. But I wouldn't call it a word processor. To me it's nothing more than a glorified text editor. To me, a text editor uses a monospaced font, of a fixed size and colo(u)r, and with no bold, underline, or italic; and doesn't usually do word-wrapping. Or any justification other than the default left. Basically, could be (and was!) used on a character-mode terminal. Edit, in DOS (I've just tried typing it into a Run box - it's still there in XP!) was a (not very good) example. For a lot of light home users, I suspect WordPad would do all they want. It's even got a print preview! -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf If your mind goes blank, remember to turn down the sound. |
#59
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Atlantis Word Processor
On 04/02/2014 17:22, BillW50 wrote:
I often don't get very excited about the daily offering on Giveawayoftheday.com. And today was just another word processor which I tried dozens of them in the past and almost none of them impress me at all. But I must say just using this Atlantis Word Processor for a few hours has really impressed me. If you are frustrated over non MS Word word processors like me, this one is definitely worth a look. And it can be portable too. ;-) Atlantis is good, but it doesn't support tables which is really inconvenient. |
#60
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Atlantis Word Processor
In message , dadiOH
writes: [] I can't comment on your other concerns as they aren't things I use, need or want. I am sure there are more full featured word processors but simplicity decreases with features. "they aren't things I use, need, or want". This statement bears examination. They aren't things you use, that's self-evident! They aren't things you need - depends on your definition of need; you don't _need_ a word processor, or even a computer. As to whether they're things you _want_ - well, I suppose if you don't actually know about them you can't want them; however, they might be things you'd want _if_ you actually saw them. One thing I do like about it is the ability to save in htm. I have and can use html editors but rarely use them as I don't have much need for them. The web pages in my sig were made with Atlantis and IrfanView. Is the HTML code it produces (a) standards-compliant (b) compact? I only ask because I'm most unimpressed with what Word produces. Try the following (change the {} to ): {HTML}{HEAD}{/HEAD} {BODY} {FONT COLOR=RED}red}{/FONT} {FONT COLOR=YELLOW}yellow{/FONT} {/BODY} {/HTML} create that (e. g. in notepad), save it as colours.htm, load it into Word, re-save it, look at the size, look at it in notepad ... (I think Word's output might just be standards-compliant.) -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf If your mind goes blank, remember to turn down the sound. |
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