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"Maybe all those people clinging to Windows 7 are on to something after all."



 
 
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  #46  
Old September 16th 18, 02:49 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Stan Brown
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Default "Maybe all those people clinging to Windows 7 are on to something after all."

On Sun, 16 Sep 2018 00:15:23 +0100, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

In message , Stan Brown
writes:
[]
Now, if there were just some way to tell Thunderbird that I want to
leave all my online mail on line, and NOT have it copied to my PC.
You'd think that would be simple, but if there's any way at all I've
failed to discover it.

Isn't that what IMAP is supposed to be about (or, at a stretch, POP with
it set to - depending on how the client puts it - to "leave email on
server" or "not delete mail from server)? Obviously, to actually look at
your emails, the client has to download them; whether it then
immediately discards them, is just a matter of semantics.


Yes, it is. That's why I find it so frustrating that Thunderbird
doesn't work that way.

Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean: your reference to "my online
mail" makes me think that is probably the case, as I can't think what
other sort of mail there might be.


By "my online mail" I meant email that I don't deliberately download
from mail servers. Thunderbird downloads it anyway, judging from the
"Downloading" messages in the status line and from the relentless
growth of my profile. Every setting I could find is set for it not to
do that, but it happens anyway.

Thunderbird lets me drag email between local folders, between remote
folders, or between a local and a remote folder. I think that's
exactly what IMAP is for. But even when I don't drag anything to
local folders, and have deleted the emails in the local "Sent"
folder, and have compacted folders -=- STILL my profile grow and
grows.


--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://BrownMath.com/
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
Shikata ga nai...
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  #47  
Old September 16th 18, 02:51 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Stan Brown
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Posts: 2,904
Default "Maybe all those people clinging to Windows 7 are on to something after all."

On Sun, 16 Sep 2018 00:10:44 +0100, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Mayayana
writes:
[quoted text muted]
| and encryption - varying.)

I have TBird and OE. Both store in a "flat file" with
minimal structure and no encryption.


It's still a single file though.


Not in Thunderbird. Every week I seem to have hundreds of new files,
despite not dragging any emails fromthe server folders to local
folders on my own computer.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://BrownMath.com/
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
Shikata ga nai...
  #48  
Old September 16th 18, 02:56 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Mayayana
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Default "Maybe all those people clinging to Windows 7 are on to something after all."

"Stan Brown" wrote

| It's still a single file though.
|
|
| Not in Thunderbird. Every week I seem to have hundreds of new files,
| despite not dragging any emails fromthe server folders to local
| folders on my own computer.
|

With IMAP? I've never used IMAP, but anyone
using POP email in OE or TBird has single email
files. My understanding with IMAP was that it worked
the same but left email on the server. So maybe
it's single files on the POP/IMAP server, but most
people are not accessing their email that way.
And if that's the only place you want your email
then backup is a moot point.


  #49  
Old September 16th 18, 02:58 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
mathedman
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Default "Maybe all those people clinging to Windows 7 are on to somethingafter all."

On 9/13/2018 6:46 PM, Stan Brown wrote:

Fun article from How-to Geek today, about Microsoft's latest Windows
10 updates, that now tell you Chrome and Frirefox are unsafe when you
try to download them.

https://www.howtogeek.com/365983/win...-push-firefox-
and-chrome-over-the-edge/



And maybe because nothing better has been demonstrated- We had win
8, which we changed with "Start 8" so it was like 7.
Then 8.1 (= 9) which was changed so it was like 7.
Now 10, which we change with Start 10 so it's like 7.
What is needed that 7 doesn't have?
  #50  
Old September 16th 18, 02:59 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Java Jive
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Default "Maybe all those people clinging to Windows 7 are on to somethingafter all."

On 16/09/2018 14:18, Mayayana wrote:

Out of curiosity I tried the
Export function in OE and it told me that it would only
export to Outlook or MS Exchange. Parochial monopoly
strikes again.


Exactly the sort of reason why I no longer keep important data such as
emails in Microshaft software formats.
  #51  
Old September 16th 18, 03:09 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Mayayana
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Posts: 6,438
Default "Maybe all those people clinging to Windows 7 are on to something after all."

"Mathedman" wrote

| What is needed that 7 doesn't have?

Are you kidding?! Try getting a Metro app on
Win7 to turn your computer into a flashlight.
No can do.


  #52  
Old September 16th 18, 04:03 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
notX
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Posts: 68
Default "Maybe all those people clinging to Windows 7 are on to somethingafter all."

On 09/15/2018 02:07 PM, Ant wrote:
notX wrote:
...
I once saw a documentary that said that corporations are essentially
psychopaths (not caring about anything but profit). Makes sense.


Which documentary was that? I'd like to see it.


"The Corporation", which I found on the internet. It appears to be this:

https://www.amazon.com/Corporation-M...he+corporation



  #53  
Old September 16th 18, 04:34 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
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Default "Maybe all those people clinging to Windows 7 are on to something after all."

In message , Mayayana
writes:
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote

| (Unfortunately, TP stores it with strong encryption, that can't be
| turned off.)

According to this...

https://www.mailxaminer.com/blog/inv...client-emails/

...it uses Berkeley Mailbox format, or at least can
export in that format as a .mbox file. That's also


Ay, that's the rub: it can export to it, but not then use what it has
exported (without importing it). I don't know what it uses in RAM (quite
likely Berkeley format - TP was standards-compliant to a fault), but its
working files have strong encryption before they're sent to disc.

I was really just bemoaning that, AFAIK and limiting to Windows, _no_
client _uses_ a discrete file for each email, although mot of them
_look_ as if they are (the UI emulating Windows Explorer, to varying
extents).

IE - at least early versions, I don't know about modern ones - uses a
separate file for each "favorite"; I couldn't believe _that_ the first
time I discovered it, since Netscape used a single HTML file for _all_
its bookmarks. (Bookmarks - certainly then and sometimes even now - were
only tens of bytes, a lot less than the cluster size a file takes.) I
think early Firefoxes used similar; later used something different, but
it's still AFAIK one file, and can import from the old ones.
[]
All of that's to say that you should be able to
get your email out without much trouble, but I'm
not aware of any program that will just export single
messages. I can drag them out onto the desktop
one at a time, as can also be done with TBird. But


TP can export one or many messages (into one .txt file; I don't think it
can export many messages into many files in one go). But it can't be
configured to do so and _work_ with those files.

I can't save all of them. Out of curiosity I tried the
Export function in OE and it told me that it would only
export to Outlook or MS Exchange. Parochial monopoly
strikes again.


)-: I think Outlook is similar. One way - either import or export, I
forget which, maybe both - it will indeed only do so to/from a short
list of clients.
[]
| Do you use OE as your main email client, then?

You betcha. I've used OE6 for many years. I'm
ambivalent these days because its encryption
methods are no longer usable. It can't handle above
TLS 1.0, if I remember correctly. And that's been
hacked. While it's still probably very useful, many
companies won't support it. I'd have to move to
TBird to get encryption.


I always thought OE - at least, with OE-quotefix - was much maligned; it
works pretty well.

But the value of encryption is debatable. I don't
plan bank heists via email. And I'm already hesitant


[Where do you plan them (-:?]
[]
OE also has limited security because of its
age. But that doesn't really apply to me. I don't
enable script or HTML email. And with anything


TP can display HTML - and when I say display, I mean exactly that: not
run scripts. (It also shows a couple of buttons if an email has a plain
text and an HTML version, and I usually select the former, though these
days the text version is often just boilerplate text saying your client
is duff or similar.)

that looks fishy I look at the source code first.
Security is for people who open spam as HTML
and can't be bothered checking URLs before
clicking them.
In all other things I find OE very well designed
and fully functional.

This topic was discussed recently. There are a
number of aspects of TBird that I find sloppy or
poorly designed. Starting with the idiotic way
it imports OE email to a second-class sub-tree.
TBird is my first choice if I ever have to switch
over but so far I don't need to.

I think the same applies here (from TP), and it's what I set up anyone
I'm setting up email for with; I accept it may not be the best (though
haven't tried any of the ones claimed to be better), but I think of it
as the best compromise between working _reasonably_ well, not being
_too_ iniquitous, and there being a fairly good chance of (my victims)
being able to find someone to ask about any problems with it.


--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

in the kingdom of the bland, the one idea is king. - Rory Bremner (on
politics), RT 2015/1/31-2/6
  #54  
Old September 16th 18, 04:34 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
mick
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Posts: 280
Default "Maybe all those people clinging to Windows 7 are on to something after all."

On 15/09/2018 22:06:24, Java Jive wrote:
On 15/09/2018 20:44, mick wrote:

To see all your archive pst files and be able to access the info in them
all you do is add those files under the data files tab in account
settings.* They then show up in the Outlook folder hierarchy where they can
be searched normally providing that you have set to 'search all items' in
preferences.


I think I can remember why I never did this.

Every time Outlook, at least 2000 and I think 2010's the same, opens a *.pst
file, it changes the date on it, even if the contents of the file do not
change. Excel 2000 does this as well. This means that you only have to open
a file to examine its contents, change nothing, but that file will now have a
new timestamp, and when you run your incremental back up software, the
otherwise-unchanged file will get backed up, and it doesn't matter then
whether your 17 years' worth of Outlook data are in one monolithic file or
spread over 17 files, the amount of data to be backed up last thing before
you retire to bed is roughly the same, and relatively large.

I don't think I knew that you could add archive files to be included in
searches though, probably because I delete off the PC and leave them only on
the server, so that might prove useful knowleadge, if not to me, then to
others, for which thanks.

But for myself, I'm trying to make myself independent of MS-based systems, so
I'm unlikely ever to go back to using Outlook for email. The one thing I
still have to open it for is that I made a lot of notes, and although I've
managed to export them into SQL format, I've not found anything which lets me
browse them in a tree-like structure the way Outlook does.


Yes, your are correct about the time stamp, but I just mark those files
to be excluded from future back ups. That is easy enough to do along
with other files and folders such as photos, videos and books that will
never want to be repeatedly backed up.

--
mick
  #55  
Old September 16th 18, 05:23 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
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Posts: 2,679
Default "Maybe all those people clinging to Windows 7 are on to something after all."

In message , mick
writes:
[]
Yes, your are correct about the time stamp, but I just mark those files
to be excluded from future back ups. That is easy enough to do along
with other files and folders such as photos, videos and books that will
never want to be repeatedly backed up.

Sounds like you might benefit from some syncing application for your
backups, if you have lots of files you don't want to back up repeatedly
(because they haven't changed). I use synctoy to "back up" my D:
partition (cycling round two or three backups, though that's not
relevant to this discussion); other sync utilities are available.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Dook, that was great but I think the line needs
awe. Can you do it again, giving it just a little awe?"

"Sure, George," said Wayne and looking up at the cross said:
"Aw, truly this man is the son of God."
(recounted in Radio Times, 30 March-5 April 2013.)
  #56  
Old September 16th 18, 06:06 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
NotMe
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Default "Maybe all those people clinging to Windows 7 are on to somethingafter all."

On 9/16/2018 9:09 AM, Mayayana wrote:
"Mathedman" wrote

| What is needed that 7 doesn't have?

Are you kidding?! Try getting a Metro app on
Win7 to turn your computer into a flashlight.
No can do.


Win 7 also isn't as good at resetting my misguided preferences.
  #57  
Old September 16th 18, 09:22 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Ant[_2_]
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Default "Maybe all those people clinging to Windows 7 are on to something after all."

jetjock wrote:
On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 15:49:48 -0400, Stan Brown
wrote:


On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 08:52:56 -0400, Wolf K wrote:
Er, all email clients save account details, etc. They just do it
differently. In Tbird, it's all stored in a folder labeled "Profiles".
Which can store two or more different profiles, each with its own
accounts, etc. Profiles can be reused not only in different instances of
TB, and on different PCs, they can be reused on TB running on different
operating systems.


I can confirm that, if you consider Win 7 and Win 8 as different
operating systems. I regularly copy my profile from my big laptop to
my small one, and everything works the same on both.

Now, if there were just some way to tell Thunderbird that I want to
leave all my online mail on line, and NOT have it copied to my PC.
You'd think that would be simple, but if there's any way at all I've
failed to discover it.


Sounds to me like something IMAP does. Does Thunderbird not have IMAP
capability?


It does have IMAP.
--
Quote of the Week: "Still we live meanly, like ants;... like pygmies we
fight with cranes;... Our life is frittered away by detail. Simplify...
simplify..." --Henry Thoreau
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  #58  
Old September 16th 18, 09:37 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
😉 Good Guy 😉
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Default "Maybe all those people clinging to Windows 7 are on to somethingafter all."

On 14/09/2018 00:46, Stan Brown wrote:
Fun article


You are the same Stupid Stan Brown so whatever crap you post here is not
going to make anybody take it seriously. Windows 10 is here and
intelligent people, especially young people, should start using it
unless they want to remain idiot like you.




--
With over 950 million devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.

  #59  
Old September 16th 18, 09:47 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Ant[_2_]
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Posts: 554
Default "Maybe all those people clinging to Windows 7 are on to something after all."

notX wrote:
On 09/15/2018 02:07 PM, Ant wrote:
notX wrote:
...
I once saw a documentary that said that corporations are essentially
psychopaths (not caring about anything but profit). Makes sense.


Which documentary was that? I'd like to see it.


"The Corporation", which I found on the internet. It appears to be this:


https://www.amazon.com/Corporation-M...he+corporation


Ah, nice scores in http://flickmetrix.com/?id=379225. So up to 2003? Darn,
there should be a sequel to 2018!

--
Quote of the Week: "Still we live meanly, like ants;... like pygmies we
fight with cranes;... Our life is frittered away by detail. Simplify...
simplify..." --Henry Thoreau
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
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  #60  
Old September 16th 18, 09:48 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Ant[_2_]
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Posts: 554
Default "Maybe all those people clinging to Windows 7 are on to something after all."

notX wrote:
On 09/15/2018 02:07 PM, Ant wrote:
notX wrote:
...
I once saw a documentary that said that corporations are essentially
psychopaths (not caring about anything but profit). Makes sense.


Which documentary was that? I'd like to see it.


"The Corporation", which I found on the internet. It appears to be this:


https://www.amazon.com/Corporation-M...he+corporation


Is this it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMNZXV7jOG0
--
Quote of the Week: "Still we live meanly, like ants;... like pygmies we
fight with cranes;... Our life is frittered away by detail. Simplify...
simplify..." --Henry Thoreau
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org / http://antfarm.ma.cx
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit-
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