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Boycott Vista in the UK!



 
 
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  #31  
Old January 30th 07, 08:11 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support,microsoft.public.windowsxp.newusers
Tx2
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 47
Default Boycott Vista in the UK!

In article ,
Bob I
thought we'd be interested in the following...


Interesting concept. A free operating system, against a operating system
you have to pay for, equals no choice.


And how many people do you know who would venture into Open Source
without batting an eyelid?

For the vast majority of people, *nix might as well be on another
planet, so that pretty much does equal no choice.


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  #32  
Old January 30th 07, 08:11 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support,microsoft.public.windowsxp.newusers
Kenny
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Posts: 552
Default Boycott Vista in the UK!

Related question, is the US version of Vista different from UK version?
I have a sister in the US, can I get her to buy me a copy there and use it
here?

--
Kenny Cargill
"Don Smith" wrote in message
...


Eric wrote:
"Gordon" wrote in message
...
According to this BBC page http://www.microsoft.com/uk/press/executives/
users in the Uk are going to be ripped off yet again by being charged
DOUBLE the prices charged in USA. Let's boycott Vista in the UK until
this rip-off culture stops.

PS - if anyone has an email address for the Sales Director of MS UK I
would like to know so that I can ask him to comment on this.


I hear the price of a German car is higher in the US than in Germany.
What's up with that?
I hear those crazy people want us to pay shipping and import expenses
too.

I hear we pay $70 in the US for a jacket they can get for $5 in S Korea.
What's up with that?

If you don't like the price they charge in your country, come to our
country and buy it and take it back with you.
If they charge $99 here and 99 pounds there, be sure to file another
complaint if the value of a dollar exceeds the value of the pound.
Make sure you factor in the cost to get the product from here to there,
as well as the additional regulations costs to Microsoft to operate in
Europe.

Either all the above or learn about duties and shipping costs. You might
also think about what happens to a company if they don't make a profit and
pay employees! I.e. THINK!



  #33  
Old January 30th 07, 08:14 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support,microsoft.public.windowsxp.newusers
John John
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Posts: 3,149
Default Boycott Vista in the UK!

Bob I wrote:


Gordon wrote:

"Bob I" wrote in message
...


Gordon wrote:


"Eric" wrote in message
...



I hear the price of a German car is higher in the US than in
Germany. What's up with that?



So don't buy a German car. there's plenty of other choices.
Microsoft's actions over the last 15 years have ensured there IS no
other choice for the vast majority of people - it's called
"monopoly".....


Interesting concept. A free operating system, against a operating
system you have to pay for, equals no choice.



Certainly up until recently, yes. Microsoft's actions ensured that
OEMs, which is where the vast majority of machines are sold, would
suffer drastic financial penalties if they sold machines with either
no OS or a competing one.....



Actually, the OEM's were eligible for greater discounts based on the
various conditions contained in their agreements. "Penalties" is
implying that they had to pay additional sums.


Actually the OEMs where held to pay an "Operating System" royalty for
each computer shipped, whether or not the computer had an operating
system or not and whether or not it even held a Microsoft operating
system. If, for example, IBM wanted to ship a new computer with OS2
they had to nonetheless pay Microsoft a fee for DOS or Windows, even
though no Microsoft products were installed, thus inflating the cost of
the non Microsoft pc and making it harder to compete. The stick used by
Microsoft to hold the OEM's to the agreement was that their access to
DOS/Windows would be ended if they refused to cooperate. Computer
manufacturers who wanted to sell Windows based computers couldn't sell
other computers without paying Microsoft anyway, so Microsoft was being
paid for BEOS, UNIX or OS2 licenses! To protest meant that the OEM was
in peril of loosing access to DOS/Windows thus loosing a large
percentage of its computer sales. Many OEMs simply decided to not even
offer non Microsoft computers, not because they didn't want to sell them
or not because there was no requests from customers but because the risk
of having a dispute with Microsoft over the licensing was too onerous to
consider. Part of the whole scheme was the now infamous unlawful "Non
Disclosure Agreements" and the unreasonably long contract terms that
Microsoft had the OEM's bound to.

John

  #34  
Old January 30th 07, 08:21 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support,microsoft.public.windowsxp.newusers
Eric
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 215
Default Boycott Vista in the UK!


"Gordon" wrote in message
...
"Eric" wrote in message
...

OEM price discount is a gift from MS to hardware vendors who go through
the trouble of installing the MS OS on their hardware for sale as a
package deal to have systems that users can take out of a box, plug in,
turn on, and start using.


BWAHAHAHAHA! You realy have got MS right up your backside, haven't you!
OEM price discount is NOT a "gift" it was a very effective method of
ensuring that OEMs did NOT sell any machines with either no OS or a
non-windows OS! Why do you think that up until recently it was impossible
to buy a machine from an OEM with no OS on it at all? Surely THAT wouldn't
hurt MS, now would it?


Eh? What planet are you on? It's been very possible for many years now to
buy a PC with no OS. It is just cheaper to buy a PC with an OEM Windows
version installed than to buy a PC with no OS and a regular Windows version.
It is still cheaper to use Linux, but most people don't know how to install
Linux and set it up or don't want to bother.


  #35  
Old January 30th 07, 08:28 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support,microsoft.public.windowsxp.newusers
Alias
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 408
Default Boycott Vista in the UK!

Kenny wrote:
Related question, is the US version of Vista different from UK version?
I have a sister in the US, can I get her to buy me a copy there and use it
here?


Yes, you can and it will work just fine.

Alias
  #36  
Old January 30th 07, 08:33 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support,microsoft.public.windowsxp.newusers
Ken Blake, MVP
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,402
Default Boycott Vista in the UK!

Eric wrote:

It's been very possible for many years
now to buy a PC with no OS.



True.


It is just cheaper to buy a PC with an
OEM Windows version installed than to buy a PC with no OS and a
regular Windows version.



Not necessarily. I have all my computers custom-built for me by a local
builder. I can buy an OEM copy of Windows from him (which he will install)
or I can buy a copy (either OEM or retail) elsewhere and install it myself.

I always prefer to buy the computer without an operating system and buy a
retail upgrade copy of Windows elsewhere. The retail upgrade version is
hardly any more expensive than the OEM version, and is greatly preferable in
my view, since it comes without the restictions of the OEM version.

--
Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
Please reply to the newsgroup


  #37  
Old January 30th 07, 09:10 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support,microsoft.public.windowsxp.newusers
Eric
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 215
Default Boycott Vista in the UK!


"Alias" wrote in message
...
Eric wrote:
"Gordon" wrote in message
...
"Eric" wrote in message
...

I hear the price of a German car is higher in the US than in Germany.
What's up with that?
So don't buy a German car. there's plenty of other choices. Microsoft's
actions over the last 15 years have ensured there IS no other choice for
the vast majority of people - it's called "monopoly".....


There are other choices.
You don't have to buy Vista.


Don't worry, I won't until it has at least SP2, if then.


I won't either, unless it comes with a new PC, whenever I can afford one.
I'm still running WinME at home.


You can buy a Mac,


Cost prohibitive, especially when you already have a decent computer.


Not an issue, if you're discussing the price of OEM Vista (only supposed to
be sold with a new PC), and if as they say Macs can now run practically any
software that is written for the PC.


or a PC with an old OS or none at all.


How does one run a PC with "none at all"?


You install your own ie Linux.


You can still run Windows 95/98/ME/2K/XP.


I do run XP.


Is that because you don't see a need to upgrade to Vista right away, or
because you're too busy crying about the cost of it?


You can run Linux.


I run that too.


Then Vista cost is not an issue.


You can write your own OS. (I bet it will take more than 200 pounds worth
of your time)


Now you're being silly.


Hey, that's what Bill Gates did so many years ago. It is possible, but most
people don't want to go to that trouble, so they pay Microsoft whatever they
ask.
It's the same reason most people don't even consider Linux, too much trouble
to learn how to set it up, when the MS OS is all set up for them.


How many more options do you need?

Again,
did you factor in shipping costs?


Negligible as they are pressed in Ireland.


OEM Version? Are they shipping the software with the hardware? Is the
hardware vendor in the UK? It would be even more if they ship the OS from
Ireland to the US and back to the UK.


did you figure in the expense amount of legislation against MS in
Europe?


Not applicable.


I hear MS was having antitrust problems in Europe. I don't know if laws or
lawsuits over there would affect their prices just for over there, didn't
bother to ask MS, just speculating why they might be doubled.


would you complain if they simply didn't bother to convert ($99 vs 99
pounds), if the dollar value was equal to or greater than a pound?


With Bush's fiscal and warring policies, that will never happen.


Who said anything about Bush? The USD used to be worth more than the pound.
Bush will be out of office in 2 years. The UK likes war too. Bush and his
Congress have the budget back on track. They've cut the deficit in half,
and plan to eliminate it by 2010.


would it help if you just go convert some of your pounds into dollars
before trying to buy it?


What and pay the currency conversion on top of the high price for Vista?


No, and pay currency conversion instead of the high price of Vista. Does
that require a trip to the US? I'd bet the $100USD extra you're paying for
Vista is less than a round trip to come to the US and get a copy.


do your internet purchases have to be in pounds?


Yes, they do. The major companies like MS, Adobe, etc., now configure
their web sites to know where you are from and will not let you buy
anything in dollars unless, of course, you're in the USA.

Alias


Can you buy it from the US in USD and ship it to the UK? Can someone in the
UK get a US address (PO Box), or do they check your location by your IP?
Maybe just make a friend in the US and have them buy it for you, or sign up
for an exchange program.

Is this high priced UK version the same as the US version?
Where do you get that pound symbol? Do they have different keyboards, or is
there a special program or key combination/function for that?


  #38  
Old January 30th 07, 09:23 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support,microsoft.public.windowsxp.newusers
Eric
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 215
Default Boycott Vista in the UK!


"Ken Blake, MVP" wrote in message
...
Eric wrote:

It's been very possible for many years
now to buy a PC with no OS.



True.


It is just cheaper to buy a PC with an
OEM Windows version installed than to buy a PC with no OS and a
regular Windows version.



Not necessarily. I have all my computers custom-built for me by a local
builder. I can buy an OEM copy of Windows from him (which he will install)
or I can buy a copy (either OEM or retail) elsewhere and install it
myself.

I always prefer to buy the computer without an operating system and buy a
retail upgrade copy of Windows elsewhere. The retail upgrade version is
hardly any more expensive than the OEM version, and is greatly preferable
in my view, since it comes without the restictions of the OEM version.

--
Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
Please reply to the newsgroup


The last OS I bought was Windows ME, maybe 5 years ago, when I believe the
full price was $99. I got it with the purchase of a new PC for $50, when
they were otherwise going to sell me the PC with no OS (and they installed
the OS while I waited, even though I know how, to save me the trouble). The
same kind of deals exist for XP/Vista, except with XP they added the
registration process that only allows you to install on one PC at a time.
Then they added a special process for OEM versions that only allowed you to
install it on one PC (can't use the same software on another PC even if you
want to remove it from the first PC). So the OEM version is generally
cheaper if you never plan to reuse it.

Upgrade version is not an option if you're going from a 32-bit OS to a
64-bit.
OEM is much cheaper than full version for anyone who doesn't have any
previous MS OS.


  #39  
Old January 30th 07, 10:11 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support,microsoft.public.windowsxp.newusers
Ken Blake, MVP
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,402
Default Boycott Vista in the UK!

Eric wrote:

"Ken Blake, MVP" wrote in message
...
Eric wrote:

It's been very possible for many years
now to buy a PC with no OS.



True.


It is just cheaper to buy a PC with an
OEM Windows version installed than to buy a PC with no OS and a
regular Windows version.



Not necessarily. I have all my computers custom-built for me by a
local builder. I can buy an OEM copy of Windows from him (which he
will install) or I can buy a copy (either OEM or retail) elsewhere
and install it myself.

I always prefer to buy the computer without an operating system and
buy a retail upgrade copy of Windows elsewhere. The retail upgrade
version is hardly any more expensive than the OEM version, and is
greatly preferable in my view, since it comes without the
restictions of the OEM version. --
Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
Please reply to the newsgroup


The last OS I bought was Windows ME, maybe 5 years ago, when I
believe the full price was $99. I got it with the purchase of a new
PC for $50, when they were otherwise going to sell me the PC with no
OS (and they installed the OS while I waited, even though I know how,
to save me the trouble). The same kind of deals exist for XP/Vista,
except with XP they added the registration process that only allows
you to install on one PC at a time.



First, it's called "activation," not "registration."

Second, they didn't add that requirement, it has always been there since at
least Windows 3.i. The only thing new in XP is that there's an enforcement
mechanism.


Then they added a special process
for OEM versions that only allowed you to install it on one PC (can't
use the same software on another PC even if you want to remove it
from the first PC).



That's also long been the rule for Microsoft OEM software. It's the main
reason I'm against using OEM copies.


So the OEM version is generally cheaper if you
never plan to reuse it.



Only slightly, if it all. Even if it costs slightly more, a retail Upgrade
version is worth it, in my opinion, because you don't have to live with the
OEM version restrictions.


Upgrade version is not an option if you're going from a 32-bit OS to a
64-bit.



That's correct.


OEM is much cheaper than full version for anyone who doesn't have any
previous MS OS.



Anyone who doesn't have a qualifying operating system for an upgrade to
Windows XP can buy a used copy of Windows 98 very inexpensively, for example
on eBay. The price advantage of OEM versions vanish or come very close to
vanishing. As far as I'm concerned, OEM versions are never good values
because of their restrictions--especially the restriction that ties them
permanently to the first computer they are installed on.

--
Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
Please reply to the newsgroup


  #40  
Old January 30th 07, 10:21 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support,microsoft.public.windowsxp.newusers
Bob I
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,943
Default Boycott Vista in the UK!


Gordon wrote:
"Bob I" wrote in message
...

Gordon wrote:


"Bob I" wrote in message
...


Gordon wrote:



"Bob I" wrote in message
.. .



Gordon wrote:




"Eric" wrote in message
.. .





I hear the price of a German car is higher in the US than in Germany.
What's up with that?


So don't buy a German car. there's plenty of other choices.
Microsoft's actions over the last 15 years have ensured there IS no
other choice for the vast majority of people - it's called
"monopoly".....

Interesting concept. A free operating system, against a operating
system you have to pay for, equals no choice.



Certainly up until recently, yes. Microsoft's actions ensured that OEMs,
which is where the vast majority of machines are sold, would suffer
drastic financial penalties if they sold machines with either no OS or a
competing one.....

Actually, the OEM's were eligible for greater discounts based on the
various conditions contained in their agreements. "Penalties" is implying
that they had to pay additional sums.


Well I suppose you /could/ look at it as a withdrawing of discount -
either way it would have had a drastic impact on the bottom line - and
that would have happened if they had sold just ONE machine.....


So, you agree that OEMs did it to gain a financial advantage over their
competitors.


No, OEMs were shanghied into it by MS.....
the way it worked was like this:
OEM to MS: We would like to sell Windows OS on our PCs
MS to OEM: Fine - we will sell you OEM licences as long as you agree to take
far more than you need, but at a ridiculously low price. IF however, you
deign to sell just one machine with either no OS or a competing one (ie
Linux) then that ridiculously low price suddenly becomes ridiculously
LARGE.....and you must still buy all the licences you contracted to buy....
That is why, up until recently, it was impossible to buy a machine from any
of the large OEMs with either no OS or one other than Windows...



Actually you are confusing OS licensing with the browser wars pricing
inducements. Some links and discussion at link below.

http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/...m/602006680831

  #41  
Old January 30th 07, 10:28 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support,microsoft.public.windowsxp.newusers
Bob I
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,943
Default Boycott Vista in the UK!


Tx2 wrote:

In article ,
Bob I
thought we'd be interested in the following...



Interesting concept. A free operating system, against a operating system
you have to pay for, equals no choice.



And how many people do you know who would venture into Open Source
without batting an eyelid?

For the vast majority of people, *nix might as well be on another
planet, so that pretty much does equal no choice.



Humm, that seems to be a common complaint. Prepackaged has it's costs.
So, either learn to cook, or quit carping about the restaurant menu prices.

  #42  
Old January 30th 07, 10:58 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support,microsoft.public.windowsxp.newusers
Gordon
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,871
Default Boycott Vista in the UK!

"Eric" wrote in message
...

Eh? What planet are you on? It's been very possible for many years now
to buy a PC with no OS.


yes, of course it has, BUT NOT FROM AN OEM......


  #43  
Old January 30th 07, 11:03 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support,microsoft.public.windowsxp.newusers
Ken Blake, MVP
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,402
Default Boycott Vista in the UK!

Gordon wrote:

"Eric" wrote in message
...

Eh? What planet are you on? It's been very possible for many years
now to buy a PC with no OS.


yes, of course it has, BUT NOT FROM AN OEM......




No, that's still not true. Change that sentence to "It's been very possible
for many years now to buy a PC with no operating system, but not from one of
the *big national* OEMs," and then it becomes true.

Dell, Gateway, etc., are not the only OEMs. There are *lots* of small,
local, mom-and-pop OEMs.

--
Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
Please reply to the newsgroup


  #44  
Old January 30th 07, 11:57 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support,microsoft.public.windowsxp.newusers
DL
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,774
Default Boycott Vista in the UK!

Office* & win* / Vista English versions are the same, in any English
speaking country, eg US, UK, Aus, NZ etc
You can purchase either from US online retailers that offer overseas
shipping. (there are many)
A US credit/charge card is not required.
Shipping cost is not exorbitant and there is no UK customs duty on software.

I have purchased both HW & Software from the US

"Kenny" wrote in message
...
Related question, is the US version of Vista different from UK version?
I have a sister in the US, can I get her to buy me a copy there and use it
here?

--
Kenny Cargill
"Don Smith" wrote in message
...


Eric wrote:
"Gordon" wrote in message
...
According to this BBC page

http://www.microsoft.com/uk/press/executives/
users in the Uk are going to be ripped off yet again by being charged
DOUBLE the prices charged in USA. Let's boycott Vista in the UK until
this rip-off culture stops.

PS - if anyone has an email address for the Sales Director of MS UK I
would like to know so that I can ask him to comment on this.

I hear the price of a German car is higher in the US than in Germany.
What's up with that?
I hear those crazy people want us to pay shipping and import expenses
too.

I hear we pay $70 in the US for a jacket they can get for $5 in S

Korea.
What's up with that?

If you don't like the price they charge in your country, come to our
country and buy it and take it back with you.
If they charge $99 here and 99 pounds there, be sure to file another
complaint if the value of a dollar exceeds the value of the pound.
Make sure you factor in the cost to get the product from here to there,
as well as the additional regulations costs to Microsoft to operate in
Europe.

Either all the above or learn about duties and shipping costs. You

might
also think about what happens to a company if they don't make a profit

and
pay employees! I.e. THINK!





  #45  
Old January 31st 07, 02:12 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support,microsoft.public.windowsxp.newusers
Bruce Chambers
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,208
Default Boycott Vista in the UK!

Eric wrote:
"Gordon" wrote in message
...
According to this BBC page http://www.microsoft.com/uk/press/executives/
users in the Uk are going to be ripped off yet again by being charged
DOUBLE the prices charged in USA. Let's boycott Vista in the UK until this
rip-off culture stops.

PS - if anyone has an email address for the Sales Director of MS UK I
would like to know so that I can ask him to comment on this.


I hear the price of a German car is higher in the US than in Germany.
What's up with that?
I hear those crazy people want us to pay shipping and import expenses too.

I hear we pay $70 in the US for a jacket they can get for $5 in S Korea.
What's up with that?


So you think it costs a couple hundred dollars to ship a CD from the
U.S. to the U.K.? Just who'
s the "crazy" one hear?


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. -Bertrand Russell
 




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