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#256
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7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition
In article , Dan Purgert
wrote: | Didn't desktop publishing get it's start with Macs? | Probably. And graphics. But that was way back when Apple "Desktop Publishing" being a graphical environment? I think Xerox or Sun was "first" in that regard. Apple just took it away from them pretty quick (and the whole "IBM (clone) with MS Windows" thing didn't really help anyone out). there was nothing to take away. although the xerox star did exist, it was very expensive, very slow, not particularly easy to use, only ran xerox apps (which were very few), only worked with xerox printers and did not sell well. most people never heard of it. i used to use one. the mac is what put desktop publishing on the map. it was far more affordable than the star (by an order of magnitude), faster (even the original) and far more open. third parties could easily write whatever apps they wanted, and did, notably adobe, aldus and quark for desktop publishing, along with countless others. macs could easily output postscript, which could drive anything from a laserwriter printer to high end systems, or print to a less expensive dot-matrix printer with the same page layout, but with a lot lower resolution. was ahead of Windows with graphics. They ended up having a reputation for being superior for a long time. Long after IIRC, the reputation was well earned -- the M68k and later PPC chips had better pipelines when it came to graphics processing than the Intel x86 processors of the day. very much so, along with the os itself which made it very easy to write graphics software (as well as other software). photoshop began on the mac. it wasn't until a few years later that it appeared on windows. want their own control. Macs never became popular until there was a market for casual entertainment use of computers. I recall them being pretty popular when I was a kid -- couldn't find a school around here that didn't have apple ]['s in the computer lab. sure, but those aren't macs. macs were never big in schools, until recently, that is. |
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#257
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7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition
On 09/12/2019 14.01, Dan Purgert wrote:
Mayayana wrote: "Paul" wrote | Though I think your Spanish ANSI would | probably work OK for me. Tilde, for example, is in the | English ANSI system. Presumably they had the sense to | use the same character codes in all Euro ANSI codepages. | | That's because "we English" pave over the language of | other people. That's how, magically, everything we | type "can be represented in ASCII". No. What I mean is that the basic English codepage includes most Euro characters in the 128+ range. Sure, but that's not typically considered to be the "ASCII" characterset anymore. At least as I recall, "ASCII" is only the characters contained in the lower 128 bits (0x00 to 0x7f) of the larger "ANSI English" character set (well, in Windows as codepage 1250 or something. As I recall, ANSI never released anything after the draft -- it got rolled into ISO8859) Correct. And the upper part, the 8 bit part, varies per the codepage. When one bought an IBM PC or clone in the USA, and one saw that you could write accented letters such as áéÃ*óú or ñ or Ñ, with many (not all) of the European special letters, that is codepage 437. Just one of the many codepages available. On each country, one had to select the correct codepage for the country. That is, the 127 upper chars are variable in 8 bit ascii, have different "drawings". And there is usually no indication in the text file what codepage they are actually using. Thar "basic English codepage" does not include the € (euro) symbol, for instance. The mentality of thinking that ascii is good enough conducts to documents and software that translates badly or with difficulty, that can be used only in one country. -- Cheers, Carlos. |
#258
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7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition
On 09/12/2019 12:33, Paul wrote:
David wrote: On 09/12/2019 04:46, Ken Springer wrote: On 12/8/19 9:15 PM, nospam wrote: In article , Ken Springer wrote: Have you ever tried voice input?Â* It's something I've wanted to try for a long time, but it's low on the priority list.Â* The coupe times I've tried it, I've found it difficult to find a list of the voice commands available to the user. I guess I shouldn't be surprised... 3 people thought they knew what I was talking about.Â* None did. don't keep everyone in suspense. explain what you were talking about. You're smart, you figure it out. i'm not interested in playing your games. Nor I, yours. A civil conversation is worth its weight in gold! Do try it, Ken. It should be pretty obvious by now, you're "on the short leash". I had to look that up! ;-) It's got nothing to do with being civil. You may be mistaken about that, Paul. Ken wasn't being civil with 'nospam' either. We've already been through umpteen examples of you going to a forum and getting banned. Where is the entertainment value in that ??? Do you think it would be better to re-invent myself under another name, use a different newsserver and, perhaps, use a Linux OS? Don't expect anyone else to enjoy such antics. I appreciate you taking the trouble to respond, Paul. Thank you! :-D |
#259
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Linux user advises Windows newbies! (was - 7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition)
On Mon, 9 Dec 2019 11:49:11 +0000, David
wrote: On 09/12/2019 01:21, Beauregard T. Shagnasty - still wriggling! David wrote: Amazing what happens when the truth is told! It certainly is. You should start sometime soon. [rest not worthy of a reply] Other readers of Usenet groups will eventually question *WHY* you, someone who doesn't ever use Microsoft Windows, deems it ethical to INSTRUCT newbies in the mysteries of one of /the/ most vulnerable operating systems on the planet. = *WHY* does a Linux aficionado promote a website discussing Windows? You don't even HIDE the fact that you are doing it! www.tekrider.net I *DO* tell the truth. You KNOW the truth. But you ALWAYS choose to *LIE*. Those pages are from way back when he used Windows(or helped someone with Windows, not anyone's business). http://www.tekrider.net/general/wintip01.php File last changed 15 April 2009 It not been altered in OVER 10 years. The text refers to programs updated in 2005. That has been explained to you so many times, it's getting boring, His PRIVATE site, his call. Now it's *YOUR* turn. This page has to be updated frequently though, since the cyber-criminal nymshifts all the time: https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php (in fact, it already need updating, there are 4 new #FAKE_NYMS missing). Google "David Brooks Devon". NEVER click on any link he posts and NEVER give any personal information. He WILL attempt to blackmail you. []'s -- Don't be evil - Google 2004 We have a new policy - Google 2012 |
#260
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7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition
On Mon, 9 Dec 2019 10:20:44 +0000, David
wrote: A civil conversation is worth its weight in gold! You STILL have not contributed to the thread YOU started. Do you even know what "civil" means? OT not up so people "get to know you better". --------------- BD: I want people to "get to know me better. I have nothing to hide". I'm always here to help, this page was put up at BD's request, rather, he said "Do it *NOW*!": http://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php 63 confirmed #FAKE_NYMS, most used in cybercrimes! Google "David Brooks Devon" []'s -- Don't be evil - Google 2004 We have a new policy - Google 2012 |
#261
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7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition
"Dan Purgert" wrote
| I explored it a fair amount but ended up feeling that | it was a big time sucker. Everything changes. Everything | requires tweaking. | So, your basic progression of "new stuff changes". I mean, it's not like | Windows behaves the same as XP (or 7) these days. | Big difference. Microsoft is religious about backward compatibility. They provide support for 10 years and lots of docs. (Though the end-user docs are pretty bad.) I'm writing this on XP with OE6. Most software still works on XP. OE was just a half-baked afterthough. A default email program. Yet OE6 is arguably better than current products despite being 18 years old. The program folder is 4 MB. TBird is 90 MB, stuffed with dotnet crap, but no help file in sight. Even the Mozilla people don't seem to have full docs for things like prefs. It's not difficult to write software that runs on all Windows versions -- backward and forward. That's like being able to write a program for current Linux and have it work on RedHat 4 seamlessly, with no additional support files or adjustments needed. So, yes, stuff changes in Windows. Especially going from XP to Vista. That was a big jump. But the API didn't change. It was just added to. MS have to offer that kind of support because business requires it. Meanwhile, WINE took 20 years to get to v. 1, with updates every 10 days. It was a training camp for college students, not a professional piece of software. GIMP is similar. And that pretty much covers Linux software for people who are not programmers or scientists. Linux support is typically 18 months. When I want to install anything it needs numerous updates of system files. Ridiculous stuff like 6.143.213.77 isn't good enough. It has to be 6.143.213.88. Docs? If you're lucky it's a man page. Ask the programmer why there are no docs. The answer will probably be something like, "I don't like to write." They say that with diffident pride: "I'm a programmer, not a lackey!" The programmer is a 35 year old teenager who's anxious to get back to his video game where he's killed 1,723 bad guys since last Tuesday and he's hoping to break his own record of 1,947 killed by tomorrow. He's going to have to stay up all night eating candybars and ramen to pull it off. And you want docs?! Where's your sense of priorities, man?! I actually came across something in WINE at one point suggesting that programmers should put comments into their code in a particular format. Those could later be auto-converted to a help file without having to actually write a help file. Any software sold for money has to be far more dependable and complete than that. | Nothing is simple because the people who use it like to feel like | coding commandos. | | I haven't run into that myself ... maybe I got lucky. | And you don't use console windows? Or end up digging down into /etc to change a program setting? Or maybe you just regard that as simple? In Windows it's been almost completely unnecessary to open console windows since about 1995. The last time I did it was to swap out the HAL file from single core to multi-core version. | So everyone brags about using a "shell", by which they mean a console | window where they run DOS-esque commands. | | Which can be the "easier" approach (in terms of less effort on your | part) than using a GUI. Yes. Exactly the answer I'd expect from a Linux fan. It can be highly efficient as a scripting system, to do batch operations, but for normal computer use -- to copy a file, find system info, read help, list directory contents, and so on -- it makes no sense. | Even the OS itself gets very limited support. | | This certainly depends on the distro you choose. Some are better than | others -- although if you're looking for "professional" support, that's | pretty much limited to Red Hat. | I don't mean personal support. I mean supporting their own product, so that necessary patches are available and software will run on it for many years, as with Windows. Many programmers use end of OS support as an excuse to end their support, so if a Linux version is only supported officially for 18 months then whatever you set up initially is "all she wrote". Once it no longer serves you'll have to start all over. | | Didn't desktop publishing get it's start with Macs? | Probably. And graphics. But that was way back when Apple | | "Desktop Publishing" being a graphical environment? I think Xerox or | Sun was "first" in that regard. Apple just took it away from them | pretty quick (and the whole "IBM (clone) with MS Windows" thing didn't | really help anyone out). | He means being able to create your own printed documents without having to paste-up photostat copy. As you may know, not so long ago the only way to print other than a typewriter was to order the text in the desired font as a photostat. The people doing that would set the lead characters, print it, and take a picture. They'd send you the picture. You would then cut that up with a razor blade and stick the words down on a backing with rubber cement. Once done, you'd send the whole thing to the printer. (I know this because I did a bit of paste-up when I was young.) Desktop publishing was the new ability to actually print a finished product yourself. With high end equipment people could print a professional, finished product and cut the photostat people, the typesetters, and the printers out of the picture. Remember those early fliers stapled to telephone poles, in futuristic, blocky fonts in the 80s? That was people with computers showing off that they could print on a piece of paper: "Cat missing. Black and white. Very cute. Answers to Frisky." Below that would be a "picture" of a cat, composed of printed squares, like an image from an early video game. Since Mac had GUI first I suspect they also had desktop publishing first. But I didn't have a computer back then. If they hadn't developed an easy GUI I probably still wouldn't have a computer. I've never needed to do word processing for work so I never had a use for DOS. | was ahead of Windows with graphics. They ended up having | a reputation for being superior for a long time. Long after | | IIRC, the reputation was well earned -- the M68k and later PPC chips had | better pipelines when it came to graphics processing than the Intel x86 | processors of the day. | Yes. But their reputation lasted far beyond that time, for no reason. Some years ago a graphics shop sued Apple after they bought Macs and found the display's top setting was only 18-bit color/ 260K colors, yet the menu selection for that setting was marked "millions of colors". Leave it to Apple to use cute slang to hide sleaze. But if they'd said "tons of colors" they might have protected themselves from a lawsuit. |
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7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition
"Ken Springer" wrote
| i'm not interested in playing your games. | | Nor I, yours. | Ha ha. You just did. Yes, suh! |
#263
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7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition
On Mon, 9 Dec 2019 13:27:55 +0000, David
wrote: It should be pretty obvious by now, you're "on the short leash". I had to look that up! Nobody cares It's got nothing to do with being civil. You may be mistaken about that, Paul. redacted wasn't being civil with redacted either. Nobody cares. We've already been through umpteen examples of you going to a forum and getting banned. Where is the entertainment value in that ??? Do you think it would be better to re-invent myself under another name, use a different newsserver and, perhaps, use a Linux OS? You've already done that so many times it's become boring. Don't expect anyone else to enjoy such antics. I appreciate you taking the trouble to respond, Paul. Translation: "You're on my *bad guy* list. I WILL stalk you. It's what I do." --------------- BD: I want people to "get to know me better. I have nothing to hide". I'm always here to help, this page was put up at BD's request, rather, he said "Do it *NOW*!": http://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php 63 confirmed #FAKE_NYMS, most used in cybercrimes! Google "David Brooks Devon" []'s -- Don't be evil - Google 2004 We have a new policy - Google 2012 |
#264
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7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition
"Carlos E.R." wrote
| | Not in the ANSI, it is in the IBMPC charset, 437. A bit different. | | | | Chr 209 and 241 in English codepage are N and n | with tilde. | | I'm not saying that. I say that the so called ANSI that contains some | European chars is not ANSI, but the IBM-PC version of it, charset 437, | with 8 bits. | Yes. We seem to have a conflict in terminology. On Windows, ANSI is the system of 8-bit charsets using codepages. Any text file on Windows is actually ANSI, using 1 byte per character, not ASCII. The actual characters displayed will be decided by the local codepage. Even though most or all will be ASCII- conforming. If I write chr 149 into a text file it will show as a bullet, because that text file is being read as ANSI text with the English codepage. There's nothing like a ban on using the high bit. All non-unicode text is 8-bit ANSI text. If I enter chr 209 it will show as N with tilde. And when I save that file from Notepad the default option will be "ANSI". If I send that file to a Russian or Turk they'll probably see different characters because the characters for their language are using part of the post-ASCII byte value range. But I suspect that on your Spanish computer you'd see what I see, because Spanish characters and other Euro characters can all fit into a single ANSI charset. Similarly, if you look up the docs for Win32 API conversion functions like WideCharToMultiByte, you'll see the conversion options are between unicode and ANSI. The default is ANSI in the local codepage. So that's another area where UTF-8 can mess things up unnecessarily on an English-codepage computer. If I happen to have text files with high-byte characters they'll be corrupted as UTF-8. |
#265
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Linux user advises Windows newbies! (was - 7 Best AlternativesTo Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition)
David the Lying Stalker of Devon wrote:
On 09/12/2019 01:21, Beauregard T. Shagnasty - still wriggling! David the Liar of Devon wrote: Amazing what happens when the truth is told! It certainly is. You should start sometime soon. [rest not worthy of a reply] Other readers of Usenet groups will ... ...see your constant lying and stalking. *WHY* does a Linux aficionado promote a website discussing Windows? You are the one who is promoting it. Don't you realize that? -- -bts |
#266
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7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite — 2019 Edition
David Wrote in message:r
According to the article .....Here are the MS Office alternatives at a glance:Google DocsLibreOfficeOffice OnlineApple iWorkWPS OfficeCalligra OfficeDropBox PaperDetails he https://fossbytes.com/best-alternati...t-office/Would you recommend one of the above for use with Windows 10 or would you suggest Open Office? https://www.openoffice.orgTIA Libre Office Is AFAIK a more advanced/more intensively developed fork of OpenOffice. -- Poutnik ( the Wanderer ) |
#267
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7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition
"Carlos E.R." wrote
| Thar "basic English codepage" does not include the ? (euro) symbol, for | instance. | Chr 128. |
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7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition
"Dan Purgert" wrote
| No. What I mean is that the basic English codepage includes | most Euro characters in the 128+ range. | | Sure, but that's not typically considered to be the "ASCII" characterset | anymore. At least as I recall, "ASCII" is only the characters contained | in the lower 128 bits (0x00 to 0x7f) of the larger "ANSI English" | character set (well, in Windows as codepage 1250 or something. As I | recall, ANSI never released anything after the draft -- it got rolled | into ISO8859) | I think there's an issue of terminology. I just posted an explanation to Carlos. The problem seems to be that few people know all the technical details and history. On Windows, there's no ASCII. It's all ANSI. Each character is a byte, not 7-bit. If you use any character above 127 it displays according to the local codepage. BUT, in most cases in English people are only using up to byte 127, so their text files are valid ASCII, valid ANSI with any codepage, and valid UTF-8. But even Microsoft confuses things. They refer to ANSI in the API and in the GUI when referencing non-unicode, yet in the Windows scripting docs they mistakenly refer to ASCII. Apparently the people writing the docs didn't know the difference! |
#269
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7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition
On 09/12/2019 15.40, Mayayana wrote:
"Carlos E.R." wrote | | Not in the ANSI, it is in the IBMPC charset, 437. A bit different. | | | | Chr 209 and 241 in English codepage are N and n | with tilde. | | I'm not saying that. I say that the so called ANSI that contains some | European chars is not ANSI, but the IBM-PC version of it, charset 437, | with 8 bits. | Yes. We seem to have a conflict in terminology. On Windows, ANSI is the system of 8-bit charsets using codepages. Any text file on Windows is actually ANSI, using 1 byte per character, not ASCII. The actual characters displayed will be decided by the local codepage. Even though most or all will be ASCII- conforming. If I write chr 149 into a text file it will show as a bullet, because that text file is being read as ANSI text with the English codepage. There's nothing like a ban on using the high bit. All non-unicode text is 8-bit ANSI text. If I enter chr 209 it will show as N with tilde. And when I save that file from Notepad the default option will be "ANSI". If I send that file to a Russian or Turk they'll probably see different characters because the characters for their language are using part of the post-ASCII byte value range. But I suspect that on your Spanish computer you'd see what I see, because Spanish characters and other Euro characters can all fit into a single ANSI charset. No, Spain uses the 850 charset. -- Cheers, Carlos. |
#270
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7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition
On 09/12/2019 15.46, Mayayana wrote:
"Carlos E.R." wrote | Thar "basic English codepage" does not include the ? (euro) symbol, for | instance. | Chr 128. You can see that it got back as a question mark. Problem proved :-p chr 128 in the "basic English codepage", 437, looks like the combination of a "C" with a ",", it is not the Euro symbol. See it he https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_page_437 «Code page 437 is the character set of the original IBM PC (personal computer). It is also known as CP437, OEM-US, OEM 437,[1] PC-8,[2] or DOS Latin US.[3] The set includes all printable ASCII characters, extended codes for accented letters (diacritics), some Greek letters, icons, and line-drawing symbols. It is sometimes referred to as the "OEM font" or "high ASCII", or as "extended ASCII"[2] (one of many mutually incompatible ASCII extensions). This character set remains the primary font in the core of any EGA and VGA-compatible graphics card. Text shown when a PC reboots, before any other font can be loaded from a storage medium, typically is rendered in this character set.[nb 1] Many file formats developed at the time of the IBM PC are based on code page 437 as well.» -- Cheers, Carlos. |
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