A Windows XP help forum. PCbanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » PCbanter forum » Microsoft Windows XP » General XP issues or comments
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

converting cine film



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old July 2nd 17, 08:48 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,679
Default converting cine film

The recent thread (in the W7 'group only) about converting VHS (to DVD
was in the title of that thread, but to disc file equally) made me
wonder:

What experience have people had with converting old cine film? (Or new
for that matter! But I can't imagine many people are still shooting it.)

I have a certain amount of standard and super 8 film; fortunately not
sound, so that's one less thing to worry about. I _think_ I still have
the projectors (-:!

I'd be interested to hear others' experiences in converting these: do
you just set up the projector and point a video camera at the screen? I
can't think of any other way, but can see lots of problems: not only
optical (getting things lined up, do you use a large or small image, do
you actually shoot from the opposite side of the screen, do you even do
something odd like projecting directly onto the sensor), but matters of
sync: IIRR (silent) standard 8 used 16 frames per second and super 8 18
[I think 24 for sound film], which don't map well to the 24 or 25 of
"PAL" or the 30 of NTSC which the video camera is likely to be (I'm in
"PAL"-land) - especially as most projectors actually cut the beam twice
per frame to reduce flicker?

What experience do people have of the (usually rather expensive)
high/main street shops which offer such conversion facilities: do _they_
just use a projector/camera setup? I can see that the best possible
method would use a telecine machine like the broadcasters use (which
does not use intermittent-motion), but I very much doubt most shops
offering "conversion" services have anything like that.

So, generally - what are people's thoughts/experiences?

Just a random thought triggered by the VHS discussion; I don't
anticipate doing it any time soon - a project for retirement. (Though
thinking about it now, there may be slightly more urgency than I'd
assumed if I'm going to do it using my old projectors, as the longer I
leave it there's always increasing chance that belts may have perished
or similar, if they haven't already [I was going to say or electronics
degraded - capacitors dried out etc. - but I don't think there _is_ any
electronics in my old projectors, certainly not the old Russian OMO
wheezer for the standard 8!].)

(A sign that it's time to think about it: my spelling checker doesn't
know "cine"! [And yes I know it really should have an accent.] I came
across a .sig or similar on similar lines - something like "You know
you're old when you type VCR and the spelling checker wants to change it
to vicar.")

P. S.: I say the standard 8 was 16 frames per second, though only
roughly: it was a clockwork camera! Virtually the same as the Zapruder
one, in fact it may even be the same model; not that I'm that old!, but
that was what a schoolboy in the 70s in England could afford. But it was
_fairly_ steady in speed, and I'd be happy to accept a fixed rate for
the conversion, especially as there's no sound.

P. P. S: At least when well lit, cine film - even 8mm, especially super
8 (which used more of the film width) - was capable of better-than-SD
resolution, though I'll probably not worry too much about that.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

All that glitters has a high refractive index.
Ads
  #2  
Old July 2nd 17, 02:22 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default converting cine film

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
The recent thread (in the W7 'group only) about converting VHS (to DVD
was in the title of that thread, but to disc file equally) made me wonder:

What experience have people had with converting old cine film? (Or new
for that matter! But I can't imagine many people are still shooting it.)

I have a certain amount of standard and super 8 film; fortunately not
sound, so that's one less thing to worry about. I _think_ I still have
the projectors (-:!

I'd be interested to hear others' experiences in converting these: do
you just set up the projector and point a video camera at the screen? I
can't think of any other way, but can see lots of problems: not only
optical (getting things lined up, do you use a large or small image, do
you actually shoot from the opposite side of the screen, do you even do
something odd like projecting directly onto the sensor), but matters of
sync: IIRR (silent) standard 8 used 16 frames per second and super 8 18
[I think 24 for sound film], which don't map well to the 24 or 25 of
"PAL" or the 30 of NTSC which the video camera is likely to be (I'm in
"PAL"-land) - especially as most projectors actually cut the beam twice
per frame to reduce flicker?

What experience do people have of the (usually rather expensive)
high/main street shops which offer such conversion facilities: do _they_
just use a projector/camera setup? I can see that the best possible
method would use a telecine machine like the broadcasters use (which
does not use intermittent-motion), but I very much doubt most shops
offering "conversion" services have anything like that.

So, generally - what are people's thoughts/experiences?

Just a random thought triggered by the VHS discussion; I don't
anticipate doing it any time soon - a project for retirement. (Though
thinking about it now, there may be slightly more urgency than I'd
assumed if I'm going to do it using my old projectors, as the longer I
leave it there's always increasing chance that belts may have perished
or similar, if they haven't already [I was going to say or electronics
degraded - capacitors dried out etc. - but I don't think there _is_ any
electronics in my old projectors, certainly not the old Russian OMO
wheezer for the standard 8!].)

(A sign that it's time to think about it: my spelling checker doesn't
know "cine"! [And yes I know it really should have an accent.] I came
across a .sig or similar on similar lines - something like "You know
you're old when you type VCR and the spelling checker wants to change it
to vicar.")

P. S.: I say the standard 8 was 16 frames per second, though only
roughly: it was a clockwork camera! Virtually the same as the Zapruder
one, in fact it may even be the same model; not that I'm that old!, but
that was what a schoolboy in the 70s in England could afford. But it was
_fairly_ steady in speed, and I'd be happy to accept a fixed rate for
the conversion, especially as there's no sound.

P. P. S: At least when well lit, cine film - even 8mm, especially super
8 (which used more of the film width) - was capable of better-than-SD
resolution, though I'll probably not worry too much about that.


You can find a thread on the topic.

https://www.photo.net/discuss/thread...ourself.38847/

Paul
  #3  
Old July 2nd 17, 06:02 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,679
Default converting cine film

In message , Paul
writes:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
The recent thread (in the W7 'group only) about converting VHS (to
DVD was in the title of that thread, but to disc file equally) made
me wonder:
What experience have people had with converting old cine film? (Or
new for that matter! But I can't imagine many people are still
shooting it.)

[]
You can find a thread on the topic.

https://www.photo.net/discuss/thread...sfer-do-it-you
rself.38847/

Paul

Thanks for that.

It runs to 7 pages; I've just spent several hours reading page 1, which
took me from the original post (2002) up to about 2011 or 2012. Just
waiting for page 2 to load ... ah, it seems to be empty, as do pages 3,
4, 5, 6, and 7.

Certainly an interesting page 1 though! (And interesting how many -
though a small proportion of the total - think we're talking about 8mm
videotapes, not 8mm film.) Back on page 1 now - the last post is
2012-8-23.

I see the word "telecine" has more interpretations than I'd thought: it
seems some machines with that name are in effect film viewers, using
rotating prisms or other mechanisms. (I had only come across it in
broadcast professional circles, where it means a machine that has a
_line_ rather than frame sensor, and scans smoothly-moving film.)
There's also frequent mention of "aerial transfer", without however
anyone saying what it actually means. (I _think_ they mean using a box
with a mirror in it rather than projecting onto a wall/screen and
videoing that.)

I'm intrigued by the guy using a flatbed scanner! But only links to his
results, not his method. Also in the camera that actually screws in
place of the projector lens, but that link no longer works (it was from
2011): http://www.easy-transfert.com/product.php?id_product=21,
apparently in France.

Has anyone here done this (capture of material on cine film - to
anything digital, i. e. DVD, hard disc, memory stick ...) recently?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Just as many people feel Christmas hasn't begun until they've heard the carols
at King's, or that the election campaign hasn't begun until some politician
lambasts the BBC ... - Eddie Mair, Radio Times 2013/11/16-22
  #4  
Old July 2nd 17, 08:07 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,881
Default converting cine film

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

The recent thread (in the W7 'group only) about converting VHS (to DVD
was in the title of that thread, but to disc file equally) made me
wonder:

What experience have people had with converting old cine film? (Or
new for that matter! But I can't imagine many people are still
shooting it.)

I have a certain amount of standard and super 8 film; fortunately not
sound, so that's one less thing to worry about. I _think_ I still
have the projectors (-:!


As noted in the W7 group in my reply, and only if you're willing to pay
more for someone else to do the conversion instead of you having to buy
the hardware and software and learn through trial and error, the Costco
photo center will do conversion from reel to DVD. Walgreens will
convert tapes but they don't list reels. Having someone else do it
means you can check their work was correct before paying but the cost
goes up by whatever is the "certain amount" of reels you need to
convert.

There are other places to do the conversion but some seem rather pricey.
http://www.homemoviedepot.com/ advertizes they will convert whatever you
can fit into a FedEx medium-size box for $300. Uffdah. That's costly
for just one large reel but then you can probably shove in a whole bunch
of those 8mm palm-sized reels. However, Costco only quotes "starting at
$19.99" so until you present them with what you want them to convert
then you don't know what they will really charge.

Pointing a digital camera (to record video) at a screen where you
projected the film would be the worst way to convert. The conversion
machines that I remember reading projected the film onto a CCD panel
that did the recording. It was all inside the "projector". Also
remember that your eyes are melding the frames together. A digital
camera pointing at a screen would capture all the flicker between frames
on the film and the framing within the video might not match.

I doubt you have the inclination to learn or the money to buy a
Rank-Cintel film-to-tape machine. It's a behemoth that occupies a room
and costs $150K (for a used price). Guess they got cheaper since about
2005 and are now /only/ $90K. Choke choke. That's what the movie
industry uses to move their movies from film (that deteriorates) to
video to store on more stable media.

https://www.videomaker.com/article/c...eo-tape-or-dvd
(quite a bit less than "7 pages")
  #5  
Old July 2nd 17, 09:17 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
pjp[_10_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,183
Default converting cine film

In article , says...

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

The recent thread (in the W7 'group only) about converting VHS (to DVD
was in the title of that thread, but to disc file equally) made me
wonder:

What experience have people had with converting old cine film? (Or
new for that matter! But I can't imagine many people are still
shooting it.)

I have a certain amount of standard and super 8 film; fortunately not
sound, so that's one less thing to worry about. I _think_ I still
have the projectors (-:!


As noted in the W7 group in my reply, and only if you're willing to pay
more for someone else to do the conversion instead of you having to buy
the hardware and software and learn through trial and error, the Costco
photo center will do conversion from reel to DVD. Walgreens will
convert tapes but they don't list reels. Having someone else do it
means you can check their work was correct before paying but the cost
goes up by whatever is the "certain amount" of reels you need to
convert.

There are other places to do the conversion but some seem rather pricey.
http://www.homemoviedepot.com/ advertizes they will convert whatever you
can fit into a FedEx medium-size box for $300. Uffdah. That's costly
for just one large reel but then you can probably shove in a whole bunch
of those 8mm palm-sized reels. However, Costco only quotes "starting at
$19.99" so until you present them with what you want them to convert
then you don't know what they will really charge.

Pointing a digital camera (to record video) at a screen where you
projected the film would be the worst way to convert. The conversion
machines that I remember reading projected the film onto a CCD panel
that did the recording. It was all inside the "projector". Also
remember that your eyes are melding the frames together. A digital
camera pointing at a screen would capture all the flicker between frames
on the film and the framing within the video might not match.

I doubt you have the inclination to learn or the money to buy a
Rank-Cintel film-to-tape machine. It's a behemoth that occupies a room
and costs $150K (for a used price). Guess they got cheaper since about
2005 and are now /only/ $90K. Choke choke. That's what the movie
industry uses to move their movies from film (that deteriorates) to
video to store on more stable media.

https://www.videomaker.com/article/c...eo-tape-or-dvd
(quite a bit less than "7 pages")


If you can get the output to SVGA or Composite then the easiest way by
far is simply connect playback device to a hardware dvd recorder. Older
gear usually has that feature. I have a combo DVD/VCR hooked up to my
hardware DVD recorder as part and parcel of larger entertainmenet
system. I've easily converted VHS to DVD without issue with acceptable
quality given source quality. Same with the odd copy protected dvd I've
encountered I couldn't find any way to rip so copied it instead the old
slow way Pain in butt when forced to do that but it works 100% of the
time regardless of copy protection; else it won't play in dvd player so
they have to accept that one can do that.

Only complaint I have is that my dvd recorder only "sees" DVD+R disks
which seem harder to find then DVD-R disks. It was $100 more than a
few years ago now so no complaints given it plays many pc formats video
natively, e.g. avi, mpg etc. I have a supply of DVD+RW's I usually use
to record and then I copy that disk using a pc to a normal DVD-R disk
(which is lossless so doesn't really matter other then few minutes
longer).

To original poster, you only have a couple of vcr tapes then look at
email and figure out reply, come visit and I'd do them for free. Note -
it'll take at least as long as tapes are plus time for introductions,
setup etc. so might instead want to leave them and come back, Also note
- I'm hour outside town in Musq. Valley area.
  #6  
Old July 2nd 17, 09:20 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Sjouke Burry[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 275
Default converting cine film

On 2-7-2017 15:22, Paul wrote:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
The recent thread (in the W7 'group only) about converting VHS (to DVD
was in the title of that thread, but to disc file equally) made me wonder:

What experience have people had with converting old cine film? (Or new
for that matter! But I can't imagine many people are still shooting it.)

I have a certain amount of standard and super 8 film; fortunately not
sound, so that's one less thing to worry about. I _think_ I still have
the projectors (-:!

I'd be interested to hear others' experiences in converting these: do
you just set up the projector and point a video camera at the screen? I
can't think of any other way, but can see lots of problems: not only
optical (getting things lined up, do you use a large or small image, do
you actually shoot from the opposite side of the screen, do you even do
something odd like projecting directly onto the sensor), but matters of
sync: IIRR (silent) standard 8 used 16 frames per second and super 8 18
[I think 24 for sound film], which don't map well to the 24 or 25 of
"PAL" or the 30 of NTSC which the video camera is likely to be (I'm in
"PAL"-land) - especially as most projectors actually cut the beam twice
per frame to reduce flicker?

What experience do people have of the (usually rather expensive)
high/main street shops which offer such conversion facilities: do _they_
just use a projector/camera setup? I can see that the best possible
method would use a telecine machine like the broadcasters use (which
does not use intermittent-motion), but I very much doubt most shops
offering "conversion" services have anything like that.

So, generally - what are people's thoughts/experiences?

Just a random thought triggered by the VHS discussion; I don't
anticipate doing it any time soon - a project for retirement. (Though
thinking about it now, there may be slightly more urgency than I'd
assumed if I'm going to do it using my old projectors, as the longer I
leave it there's always increasing chance that belts may have perished
or similar, if they haven't already [I was going to say or electronics
degraded - capacitors dried out etc. - but I don't think there _is_ any
electronics in my old projectors, certainly not the old Russian OMO
wheezer for the standard 8!].)

(A sign that it's time to think about it: my spelling checker doesn't
know "cine"! [And yes I know it really should have an accent.] I came
across a .sig or similar on similar lines - something like "You know
you're old when you type VCR and the spelling checker wants to change it
to vicar.")

P. S.: I say the standard 8 was 16 frames per second, though only
roughly: it was a clockwork camera! Virtually the same as the Zapruder
one, in fact it may even be the same model; not that I'm that old!, but
that was what a schoolboy in the 70s in England could afford. But it was
_fairly_ steady in speed, and I'd be happy to accept a fixed rate for
the conversion, especially as there's no sound.

P. P. S: At least when well lit, cine film - even 8mm, especially super
8 (which used more of the film width) - was capable of better-than-SD
resolution, though I'll probably not worry too much about that.


You can find a thread on the topic.

https://www.photo.net/discuss/thread...ourself.38847/

Paul

A neigbour went to a shop with his films spools and had them converted.
Prisetag was about 300 dollar.
  #7  
Old July 2nd 17, 09:55 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,881
Default converting cine film

pjp wrote:

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

What experience have people had with converting old cine film? (Or
new for that matter! But I can't imagine many people are still
shooting it.)


If you can get the output to SVGA or Composite then the easiest way by
far is simply connect playback device to a hardware dvd recorder.


That's like saying your flashlight has RCA ports for SVGA or composite.
Really?

There are *film* projectors with RCA connectors? Never saw one.
Neglecting the audio component and just looking at the video components,
projectors have a bulb aka lamp, shutter, sprockets to position and halt
each film frame behind the lens, and motor to move the film and
mechanical parts.

To what logic or circuitry would the RCA ports connect in a film
projector? The projector doesn't itself capture the image. It's just
shining a light through the film.

http://entertainment.howstuffworks.c...projector1.htm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En__V0oEJsU

I very much doubt Gilliver has a projector with an internal CCD screen
to capture the image and output to signal connectors instead of
projecting the modified light to a screen. If he had one of those, he
would definitely remember having one and not have asked about how to
convert film to video.

Maybe you forgot Gilliver was asking how to convert *film* to video, not
about converting VHS tapes to video/disc.
  #8  
Old July 2nd 17, 10:35 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,679
Default converting cine film

In message , VanguardLH
writes:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

The recent thread (in the W7 'group only) about converting VHS (to DVD
was in the title of that thread, but to disc file equally) made me
wonder:

What experience have people had with converting old cine film? (Or
new for that matter! But I can't imagine many people are still
shooting it.)

I have a certain amount of standard and super 8 film; fortunately not
sound, so that's one less thing to worry about. I _think_ I still
have the projectors (-:!


As noted in the W7 group in my reply, and only if you're willing to pay
more for someone else to do the conversion instead of you having to buy
the hardware and software and learn through trial and error, the Costco
photo center will do conversion from reel to DVD. Walgreens will


I don't _think_ either of those have branches in the UK.
[]
Pointing a digital camera (to record video) at a screen where you
projected the film would be the worst way to convert. The conversion


But - with various refinements - is what most people seem to do, some of
them with results they're happy with. The main problem seems to be what
they mostly call "flicker", which I take to be the sync.ing problem.

machines that I remember reading projected the film onto a CCD panel
that did the recording. It was all inside the "projector". Also
remember that your eyes are melding the frames together. A digital
camera pointing at a screen would capture all the flicker between frames
on the film and the framing within the video might not match.


They mainly seek a variable speed projector, so they can set to 16 2/3
(EU) or 20 (NTSC). I'd have assumed there would still eventually be a
sybc/flicker problem. You'd still get it with direct projection onto the
CCD (which would be achievable anyway with a camera if you could take
the lens off), unless there was some electronic locking of the scanning
to the mechanicals.

I doubt you have the inclination to learn or the money to buy a
Rank-Cintel film-to-tape machine. It's a behemoth that occupies a room
and costs $150K (for a used price). Guess they got cheaper since about
2005 and are now /only/ $90K. Choke choke. That's what the movie
industry uses to move their movies from film (that deteriorates) to
video to store on more stable media.


I know (a branch of the company I used to work for also used to make
such "true telecine" as I think of it machines); they don't have a frame
sensor, just a line sensor, and don't move the film in jerks. As you
say, I'd assumed the price would be prohibitive, and I hadn't thought
about the space. (Though I think console rather than room size, but
still BIG.)

https://www.videomaker.com/article/c...er-8mm-16mm-35
mm-or-65mm-film-to-video-tape-or-dvd
(quite a bit less than "7 pages")


Pity it's a long sheet of black when viewed in my preferred browser.
Views OK in Chrome, but doesn't really tell me more than I had already
figured out, combined with a touching faith that if you contact the
professionals to ask them technical questions about their process,
you'll get a sensible answer. (In UK in 2017, you'd most likely get no
answer at all; if not that, you'd get an answer full of platitudes
written by someone who has no clue technically; if not that, you might
get a rude answer.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Look, if it'll help you to do what I tell you, baby, imagine that I've got a
blaster ray in my hand." "Uh - you _have_ got a blaster ray in your hand." "So
you shouldn't have to tax your imagination too hard." (Link episode)
  #9  
Old July 2nd 17, 11:11 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Nil[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,170
Default converting cine film

On 02 Jul 2017, "J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote
in microsoft.public.windowsxp.general:

What experience have people had with converting old cine film? (Or
new for that matter! But I can't imagine many people are still
shooting it.)


Not that I have much to compare it to, but about 6 or 8 years ago I had
these guys convert about 20 minutes of old 8mm and super8 home movie
film to DVD. At the time, I thought their price was reasonable and the
quality of their work was good.

http://www.homemoviedepot.com/

  #10  
Old July 2nd 17, 11:31 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default converting cine film

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , VanguardLH writes:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

The recent thread (in the W7 'group only) about converting VHS (to DVD
was in the title of that thread, but to disc file equally) made me
wonder:

What experience have people had with converting old cine film? (Or
new for that matter! But I can't imagine many people are still
shooting it.)

I have a certain amount of standard and super 8 film; fortunately not
sound, so that's one less thing to worry about. I _think_ I still
have the projectors (-:!


As noted in the W7 group in my reply, and only if you're willing to pay
more for someone else to do the conversion instead of you having to buy
the hardware and software and learn through trial and error, the Costco
photo center will do conversion from reel to DVD. Walgreens will


I don't _think_ either of those have branches in the UK.
[]
Pointing a digital camera (to record video) at a screen where you
projected the film would be the worst way to convert. The conversion


But - with various refinements - is what most people seem to do, some of
them with results they're happy with. The main problem seems to be what
they mostly call "flicker", which I take to be the sync.ing problem.


I've heard of this procedure, but because the frame rates are different
in your case, I don't know what it would be called.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3:2_pulldown

Someone using Final Cut Pro was fooling around with that
sort of approach.

"Q: adding pulldown to 8mm film from 18fps - 24fps"
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/1750712?tstart=0

Paul
  #11  
Old July 3rd 17, 12:00 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Diesel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 937
Default converting cine film

"J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Sun, 02 Jul 2017 07:48:19
GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote:

The recent thread (in the W7 'group only) about converting VHS (to
DVD was in the title of that thread, but to disc file equally)
made me wonder:

What experience have people had with converting old cine film? (Or
new for that matter! But I can't imagine many people are still
shooting it.)


I've done it a few times. It requires specific hardware and a lot of
time that could be better spent doing other things. There's no real
money in this area to do it these days.



--
https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php

"You, you, and you ... Panic. The rest of you, come with me."
- U.S. Marine Corp Gunnery Sgt.
  #12  
Old July 3rd 17, 12:40 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
pjp[_10_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,183
Default converting cine film

In article , says...

pjp wrote:

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

What experience have people had with converting old cine film? (Or
new for that matter! But I can't imagine many people are still
shooting it.)


If you can get the output to SVGA or Composite then the easiest way by
far is simply connect playback device to a hardware dvd recorder.


That's like saying your flashlight has RCA ports for SVGA or composite.
Really?

There are *film* projectors with RCA connectors? Never saw one.
Neglecting the audio component and just looking at the video components,
projectors have a bulb aka lamp, shutter, sprockets to position and halt
each film frame behind the lens, and motor to move the film and
mechanical parts.

To what logic or circuitry would the RCA ports connect in a film
projector? The projector doesn't itself capture the image. It's just
shining a light through the film.

http://entertainment.howstuffworks.c...projector1.htm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En__V0oEJsU

I very much doubt Gilliver has a projector with an internal CCD screen
to capture the image and output to signal connectors instead of
projecting the modified light to a screen. If he had one of those, he
would definitely remember having one and not have asked about how to
convert film to video.

Maybe you forgot Gilliver was asking how to convert *film* to video, not
about converting VHS tapes to video/disc.


You know exactly what was meant, e.g. vcr's, dvd players, reel-to-reel,
camcorder units etc. etc. I was under impression original post was about
8Mm tapes and those players provided suitable outputs.

Of course FILM doesn't provide any type of output except light without
something special as an extra. You just want to "I dunno what?".
  #14  
Old July 3rd 17, 02:40 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
John Dulak[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 61
Default converting cine film

On 7/2/2017 3:48 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
The recent thread (in the W7 'group only) about converting VHS (to DVD was in
the title of that thread, but to disc file equally) made me wonder:

What experience have people had with converting old cine film? (Or new for that
matter! But I can't imagine many people are still shooting it.)

I have a certain amount of standard and super 8 film; fortunately not sound, so
that's one less thing to worry about. I _think_ I still have the projectors (-:!

I'd be interested to hear others' experiences in converting these: do you just
set up the projector and point a video camera at the screen? I can't think of
any other way, but can see lots of problems: not only optical (getting things
lined up, do you use a large or small image, do you actually shoot from the
opposite side of the screen, do you even do something odd like projecting
directly onto the sensor), but matters of sync: IIRR (silent) standard 8 used 16
frames per second and super 8 18 [I think 24 for sound film], which don't map
well to the 24 or 25 of "PAL" or the 30 of NTSC which the video camera is likely
to be (I'm in "PAL"-land) - especially as most projectors actually cut the beam
twice per frame to reduce flicker?

What experience do people have of the (usually rather expensive) high/main
street shops which offer such conversion facilities: do _they_ just use a
projector/camera setup? I can see that the best possible method would use a
telecine machine like the broadcasters use (which does not use
intermittent-motion), but I very much doubt most shops offering "conversion"
services have anything like that.

So, generally - what are people's thoughts/experiences?

Just a random thought triggered by the VHS discussion; I don't anticipate doing
it any time soon - a project for retirement. (Though thinking about it now,
there may be slightly more urgency than I'd assumed if I'm going to do it using
my old projectors, as the longer I leave it there's always increasing chance
that belts may have perished or similar, if they haven't already [I was going to
say or electronics degraded - capacitors dried out etc. - but I don't think
there _is_ any electronics in my old projectors, certainly not the old Russian
OMO wheezer for the standard 8!].)

(A sign that it's time to think about it: my spelling checker doesn't know
"cine"! [And yes I know it really should have an accent.] I came across a .sig
or similar on similar lines - something like "You know you're old when you type
VCR and the spelling checker wants to change it to vicar.")

P. S.: I say the standard 8 was 16 frames per second, though only roughly: it
was a clockwork camera! Virtually the same as the Zapruder one, in fact it may
even be the same model; not that I'm that old!, but that was what a schoolboy in
the 70s in England could afford. But it was _fairly_ steady in speed, and I'd be
happy to accept a fixed rate for the conversion, especially as there's no sound.

P. P. S: At least when well lit, cine film - even 8mm, especially super 8 (which
used more of the film width) - was capable of better-than-SD resolution, though
I'll probably not worry too much about that.



JP:

While I've never done this there IS a product that claims to do what you want in
a dedicated package for $300 US.

http://secure.mm5server.com/merchant...Yes&Quantity=1

http://www.wolverinedata.com/videos/...ieMaker_V1.pdf

No idea what the quality is like.

HTH & GL

John

--
  #15  
Old July 3rd 17, 04:50 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,881
Default converting cine film

pjp wrote:

In article , says...

pjp wrote:

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

What experience have people had with converting old cine film? (Or
new for that matter! But I can't imagine many people are still
shooting it.)

If you can get the output to SVGA or Composite then the easiest way by
far is simply connect playback device to a hardware dvd recorder.


That's like saying your flashlight has RCA ports for SVGA or composite.
Really?

There are *film* projectors with RCA connectors? Never saw one.
Neglecting the audio component and just looking at the video components,
projectors have a bulb aka lamp, shutter, sprockets to position and halt
each film frame behind the lens, and motor to move the film and
mechanical parts.

To what logic or circuitry would the RCA ports connect in a film
projector? The projector doesn't itself capture the image. It's just
shining a light through the film.

http://entertainment.howstuffworks.c...projector1.htm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En__V0oEJsU

I very much doubt Gilliver has a projector with an internal CCD screen
to capture the image and output to signal connectors instead of
projecting the modified light to a screen. If he had one of those, he
would definitely remember having one and not have asked about how to
convert film to video.

Maybe you forgot Gilliver was asking how to convert *film* to video, not
about converting VHS tapes to video/disc.


You know exactly what was meant, e.g. vcr's, dvd players, reel-to-reel,
camcorder units etc. etc. I was under impression original post was about
8Mm tapes and those players provided suitable outputs.


In the other thread in the Win7 newsgroup, that OP only wanted the audio
because his friend is blind. So audio outputs from a film projector
would work if the projector had those outputs. Yes, I know what you
meant but you forget THIS discussion was about converting film - both
video and audio. Reel-to-reel is just audio tape, not film. Camcorders
combine a video camera with a videocassette recorder. Those don't use
film. They started out using tape and then to flash memory. 8mm audio
tapes is not what Gilliver asked about. He has some 8mm film reels (and
why he added "cine" to his description).

8mm audio tape:
http://tinyurl.com/y7ruf4ln

8mm film:
http://tinyurl.com/y7ububnf

Of course FILM doesn't provide any type of output except light without
something special as an extra.


You're back on track. Film, as in photographic film with frames of
images and an audio track on the side. Not [audio] tape.

You just want to "I dunno what?".


It's now my fault that you misunderstood? Uh huh.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off






All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:56 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 PCbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.