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converting cine film
The recent thread (in the W7 'group only) about converting VHS (to DVD
was in the title of that thread, but to disc file equally) made me wonder: What experience have people had with converting old cine film? (Or new for that matter! But I can't imagine many people are still shooting it.) I have a certain amount of standard and super 8 film; fortunately not sound, so that's one less thing to worry about. I _think_ I still have the projectors (-:! I'd be interested to hear others' experiences in converting these: do you just set up the projector and point a video camera at the screen? I can't think of any other way, but can see lots of problems: not only optical (getting things lined up, do you use a large or small image, do you actually shoot from the opposite side of the screen, do you even do something odd like projecting directly onto the sensor), but matters of sync: IIRR (silent) standard 8 used 16 frames per second and super 8 18 [I think 24 for sound film], which don't map well to the 24 or 25 of "PAL" or the 30 of NTSC which the video camera is likely to be (I'm in "PAL"-land) - especially as most projectors actually cut the beam twice per frame to reduce flicker? What experience do people have of the (usually rather expensive) high/main street shops which offer such conversion facilities: do _they_ just use a projector/camera setup? I can see that the best possible method would use a telecine machine like the broadcasters use (which does not use intermittent-motion), but I very much doubt most shops offering "conversion" services have anything like that. So, generally - what are people's thoughts/experiences? Just a random thought triggered by the VHS discussion; I don't anticipate doing it any time soon - a project for retirement. (Though thinking about it now, there may be slightly more urgency than I'd assumed if I'm going to do it using my old projectors, as the longer I leave it there's always increasing chance that belts may have perished or similar, if they haven't already [I was going to say or electronics degraded - capacitors dried out etc. - but I don't think there _is_ any electronics in my old projectors, certainly not the old Russian OMO wheezer for the standard 8!].) (A sign that it's time to think about it: my spelling checker doesn't know "cine"! [And yes I know it really should have an accent.] I came across a .sig or similar on similar lines - something like "You know you're old when you type VCR and the spelling checker wants to change it to vicar.") P. S.: I say the standard 8 was 16 frames per second, though only roughly: it was a clockwork camera! Virtually the same as the Zapruder one, in fact it may even be the same model; not that I'm that old!, but that was what a schoolboy in the 70s in England could afford. But it was _fairly_ steady in speed, and I'd be happy to accept a fixed rate for the conversion, especially as there's no sound. P. P. S: At least when well lit, cine film - even 8mm, especially super 8 (which used more of the film width) - was capable of better-than-SD resolution, though I'll probably not worry too much about that. -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf All that glitters has a high refractive index. |
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converting cine film
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
The recent thread (in the W7 'group only) about converting VHS (to DVD was in the title of that thread, but to disc file equally) made me wonder: What experience have people had with converting old cine film? (Or new for that matter! But I can't imagine many people are still shooting it.) I have a certain amount of standard and super 8 film; fortunately not sound, so that's one less thing to worry about. I _think_ I still have the projectors (-:! I'd be interested to hear others' experiences in converting these: do you just set up the projector and point a video camera at the screen? I can't think of any other way, but can see lots of problems: not only optical (getting things lined up, do you use a large or small image, do you actually shoot from the opposite side of the screen, do you even do something odd like projecting directly onto the sensor), but matters of sync: IIRR (silent) standard 8 used 16 frames per second and super 8 18 [I think 24 for sound film], which don't map well to the 24 or 25 of "PAL" or the 30 of NTSC which the video camera is likely to be (I'm in "PAL"-land) - especially as most projectors actually cut the beam twice per frame to reduce flicker? What experience do people have of the (usually rather expensive) high/main street shops which offer such conversion facilities: do _they_ just use a projector/camera setup? I can see that the best possible method would use a telecine machine like the broadcasters use (which does not use intermittent-motion), but I very much doubt most shops offering "conversion" services have anything like that. So, generally - what are people's thoughts/experiences? Just a random thought triggered by the VHS discussion; I don't anticipate doing it any time soon - a project for retirement. (Though thinking about it now, there may be slightly more urgency than I'd assumed if I'm going to do it using my old projectors, as the longer I leave it there's always increasing chance that belts may have perished or similar, if they haven't already [I was going to say or electronics degraded - capacitors dried out etc. - but I don't think there _is_ any electronics in my old projectors, certainly not the old Russian OMO wheezer for the standard 8!].) (A sign that it's time to think about it: my spelling checker doesn't know "cine"! [And yes I know it really should have an accent.] I came across a .sig or similar on similar lines - something like "You know you're old when you type VCR and the spelling checker wants to change it to vicar.") P. S.: I say the standard 8 was 16 frames per second, though only roughly: it was a clockwork camera! Virtually the same as the Zapruder one, in fact it may even be the same model; not that I'm that old!, but that was what a schoolboy in the 70s in England could afford. But it was _fairly_ steady in speed, and I'd be happy to accept a fixed rate for the conversion, especially as there's no sound. P. P. S: At least when well lit, cine film - even 8mm, especially super 8 (which used more of the film width) - was capable of better-than-SD resolution, though I'll probably not worry too much about that. You can find a thread on the topic. https://www.photo.net/discuss/thread...ourself.38847/ Paul |
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converting cine film
In message , Paul
writes: J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: The recent thread (in the W7 'group only) about converting VHS (to DVD was in the title of that thread, but to disc file equally) made me wonder: What experience have people had with converting old cine film? (Or new for that matter! But I can't imagine many people are still shooting it.) [] You can find a thread on the topic. https://www.photo.net/discuss/thread...sfer-do-it-you rself.38847/ Paul Thanks for that. It runs to 7 pages; I've just spent several hours reading page 1, which took me from the original post (2002) up to about 2011 or 2012. Just waiting for page 2 to load ... ah, it seems to be empty, as do pages 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7. Certainly an interesting page 1 though! (And interesting how many - though a small proportion of the total - think we're talking about 8mm videotapes, not 8mm film.) Back on page 1 now - the last post is 2012-8-23. I see the word "telecine" has more interpretations than I'd thought: it seems some machines with that name are in effect film viewers, using rotating prisms or other mechanisms. (I had only come across it in broadcast professional circles, where it means a machine that has a _line_ rather than frame sensor, and scans smoothly-moving film.) There's also frequent mention of "aerial transfer", without however anyone saying what it actually means. (I _think_ they mean using a box with a mirror in it rather than projecting onto a wall/screen and videoing that.) I'm intrigued by the guy using a flatbed scanner! But only links to his results, not his method. Also in the camera that actually screws in place of the projector lens, but that link no longer works (it was from 2011): http://www.easy-transfert.com/product.php?id_product=21, apparently in France. Has anyone here done this (capture of material on cine film - to anything digital, i. e. DVD, hard disc, memory stick ...) recently? -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf Just as many people feel Christmas hasn't begun until they've heard the carols at King's, or that the election campaign hasn't begun until some politician lambasts the BBC ... - Eddie Mair, Radio Times 2013/11/16-22 |
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converting cine film
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
The recent thread (in the W7 'group only) about converting VHS (to DVD was in the title of that thread, but to disc file equally) made me wonder: What experience have people had with converting old cine film? (Or new for that matter! But I can't imagine many people are still shooting it.) I have a certain amount of standard and super 8 film; fortunately not sound, so that's one less thing to worry about. I _think_ I still have the projectors (-:! As noted in the W7 group in my reply, and only if you're willing to pay more for someone else to do the conversion instead of you having to buy the hardware and software and learn through trial and error, the Costco photo center will do conversion from reel to DVD. Walgreens will convert tapes but they don't list reels. Having someone else do it means you can check their work was correct before paying but the cost goes up by whatever is the "certain amount" of reels you need to convert. There are other places to do the conversion but some seem rather pricey. http://www.homemoviedepot.com/ advertizes they will convert whatever you can fit into a FedEx medium-size box for $300. Uffdah. That's costly for just one large reel but then you can probably shove in a whole bunch of those 8mm palm-sized reels. However, Costco only quotes "starting at $19.99" so until you present them with what you want them to convert then you don't know what they will really charge. Pointing a digital camera (to record video) at a screen where you projected the film would be the worst way to convert. The conversion machines that I remember reading projected the film onto a CCD panel that did the recording. It was all inside the "projector". Also remember that your eyes are melding the frames together. A digital camera pointing at a screen would capture all the flicker between frames on the film and the framing within the video might not match. I doubt you have the inclination to learn or the money to buy a Rank-Cintel film-to-tape machine. It's a behemoth that occupies a room and costs $150K (for a used price). Guess they got cheaper since about 2005 and are now /only/ $90K. Choke choke. That's what the movie industry uses to move their movies from film (that deteriorates) to video to store on more stable media. https://www.videomaker.com/article/c...eo-tape-or-dvd (quite a bit less than "7 pages") |
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converting cine film
On 2-7-2017 15:22, Paul wrote:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: The recent thread (in the W7 'group only) about converting VHS (to DVD was in the title of that thread, but to disc file equally) made me wonder: What experience have people had with converting old cine film? (Or new for that matter! But I can't imagine many people are still shooting it.) I have a certain amount of standard and super 8 film; fortunately not sound, so that's one less thing to worry about. I _think_ I still have the projectors (-:! I'd be interested to hear others' experiences in converting these: do you just set up the projector and point a video camera at the screen? I can't think of any other way, but can see lots of problems: not only optical (getting things lined up, do you use a large or small image, do you actually shoot from the opposite side of the screen, do you even do something odd like projecting directly onto the sensor), but matters of sync: IIRR (silent) standard 8 used 16 frames per second and super 8 18 [I think 24 for sound film], which don't map well to the 24 or 25 of "PAL" or the 30 of NTSC which the video camera is likely to be (I'm in "PAL"-land) - especially as most projectors actually cut the beam twice per frame to reduce flicker? What experience do people have of the (usually rather expensive) high/main street shops which offer such conversion facilities: do _they_ just use a projector/camera setup? I can see that the best possible method would use a telecine machine like the broadcasters use (which does not use intermittent-motion), but I very much doubt most shops offering "conversion" services have anything like that. So, generally - what are people's thoughts/experiences? Just a random thought triggered by the VHS discussion; I don't anticipate doing it any time soon - a project for retirement. (Though thinking about it now, there may be slightly more urgency than I'd assumed if I'm going to do it using my old projectors, as the longer I leave it there's always increasing chance that belts may have perished or similar, if they haven't already [I was going to say or electronics degraded - capacitors dried out etc. - but I don't think there _is_ any electronics in my old projectors, certainly not the old Russian OMO wheezer for the standard 8!].) (A sign that it's time to think about it: my spelling checker doesn't know "cine"! [And yes I know it really should have an accent.] I came across a .sig or similar on similar lines - something like "You know you're old when you type VCR and the spelling checker wants to change it to vicar.") P. S.: I say the standard 8 was 16 frames per second, though only roughly: it was a clockwork camera! Virtually the same as the Zapruder one, in fact it may even be the same model; not that I'm that old!, but that was what a schoolboy in the 70s in England could afford. But it was _fairly_ steady in speed, and I'd be happy to accept a fixed rate for the conversion, especially as there's no sound. P. P. S: At least when well lit, cine film - even 8mm, especially super 8 (which used more of the film width) - was capable of better-than-SD resolution, though I'll probably not worry too much about that. You can find a thread on the topic. https://www.photo.net/discuss/thread...ourself.38847/ Paul A neigbour went to a shop with his films spools and had them converted. Prisetag was about 300 dollar. |
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converting cine film
pjp wrote:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: What experience have people had with converting old cine film? (Or new for that matter! But I can't imagine many people are still shooting it.) If you can get the output to SVGA or Composite then the easiest way by far is simply connect playback device to a hardware dvd recorder. That's like saying your flashlight has RCA ports for SVGA or composite. Really? There are *film* projectors with RCA connectors? Never saw one. Neglecting the audio component and just looking at the video components, projectors have a bulb aka lamp, shutter, sprockets to position and halt each film frame behind the lens, and motor to move the film and mechanical parts. To what logic or circuitry would the RCA ports connect in a film projector? The projector doesn't itself capture the image. It's just shining a light through the film. http://entertainment.howstuffworks.c...projector1.htm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En__V0oEJsU I very much doubt Gilliver has a projector with an internal CCD screen to capture the image and output to signal connectors instead of projecting the modified light to a screen. If he had one of those, he would definitely remember having one and not have asked about how to convert film to video. Maybe you forgot Gilliver was asking how to convert *film* to video, not about converting VHS tapes to video/disc. |
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converting cine film
In message , VanguardLH
writes: J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: The recent thread (in the W7 'group only) about converting VHS (to DVD was in the title of that thread, but to disc file equally) made me wonder: What experience have people had with converting old cine film? (Or new for that matter! But I can't imagine many people are still shooting it.) I have a certain amount of standard and super 8 film; fortunately not sound, so that's one less thing to worry about. I _think_ I still have the projectors (-:! As noted in the W7 group in my reply, and only if you're willing to pay more for someone else to do the conversion instead of you having to buy the hardware and software and learn through trial and error, the Costco photo center will do conversion from reel to DVD. Walgreens will I don't _think_ either of those have branches in the UK. [] Pointing a digital camera (to record video) at a screen where you projected the film would be the worst way to convert. The conversion But - with various refinements - is what most people seem to do, some of them with results they're happy with. The main problem seems to be what they mostly call "flicker", which I take to be the sync.ing problem. machines that I remember reading projected the film onto a CCD panel that did the recording. It was all inside the "projector". Also remember that your eyes are melding the frames together. A digital camera pointing at a screen would capture all the flicker between frames on the film and the framing within the video might not match. They mainly seek a variable speed projector, so they can set to 16 2/3 (EU) or 20 (NTSC). I'd have assumed there would still eventually be a sybc/flicker problem. You'd still get it with direct projection onto the CCD (which would be achievable anyway with a camera if you could take the lens off), unless there was some electronic locking of the scanning to the mechanicals. I doubt you have the inclination to learn or the money to buy a Rank-Cintel film-to-tape machine. It's a behemoth that occupies a room and costs $150K (for a used price). Guess they got cheaper since about 2005 and are now /only/ $90K. Choke choke. That's what the movie industry uses to move their movies from film (that deteriorates) to video to store on more stable media. I know (a branch of the company I used to work for also used to make such "true telecine" as I think of it machines); they don't have a frame sensor, just a line sensor, and don't move the film in jerks. As you say, I'd assumed the price would be prohibitive, and I hadn't thought about the space. (Though I think console rather than room size, but still BIG.) https://www.videomaker.com/article/c...er-8mm-16mm-35 mm-or-65mm-film-to-video-tape-or-dvd (quite a bit less than "7 pages") Pity it's a long sheet of black when viewed in my preferred browser. Views OK in Chrome, but doesn't really tell me more than I had already figured out, combined with a touching faith that if you contact the professionals to ask them technical questions about their process, you'll get a sensible answer. (In UK in 2017, you'd most likely get no answer at all; if not that, you'd get an answer full of platitudes written by someone who has no clue technically; if not that, you might get a rude answer.) -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf "Look, if it'll help you to do what I tell you, baby, imagine that I've got a blaster ray in my hand." "Uh - you _have_ got a blaster ray in your hand." "So you shouldn't have to tax your imagination too hard." (Link episode) |
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converting cine film
On 02 Jul 2017, "J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote
in microsoft.public.windowsxp.general: What experience have people had with converting old cine film? (Or new for that matter! But I can't imagine many people are still shooting it.) Not that I have much to compare it to, but about 6 or 8 years ago I had these guys convert about 20 minutes of old 8mm and super8 home movie film to DVD. At the time, I thought their price was reasonable and the quality of their work was good. http://www.homemoviedepot.com/ |
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converting cine film
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , VanguardLH writes: J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: The recent thread (in the W7 'group only) about converting VHS (to DVD was in the title of that thread, but to disc file equally) made me wonder: What experience have people had with converting old cine film? (Or new for that matter! But I can't imagine many people are still shooting it.) I have a certain amount of standard and super 8 film; fortunately not sound, so that's one less thing to worry about. I _think_ I still have the projectors (-:! As noted in the W7 group in my reply, and only if you're willing to pay more for someone else to do the conversion instead of you having to buy the hardware and software and learn through trial and error, the Costco photo center will do conversion from reel to DVD. Walgreens will I don't _think_ either of those have branches in the UK. [] Pointing a digital camera (to record video) at a screen where you projected the film would be the worst way to convert. The conversion But - with various refinements - is what most people seem to do, some of them with results they're happy with. The main problem seems to be what they mostly call "flicker", which I take to be the sync.ing problem. I've heard of this procedure, but because the frame rates are different in your case, I don't know what it would be called. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3:2_pulldown Someone using Final Cut Pro was fooling around with that sort of approach. "Q: adding pulldown to 8mm film from 18fps - 24fps" https://discussions.apple.com/thread/1750712?tstart=0 Paul |
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converting cine film
"J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Sun, 02 Jul 2017 07:48:19 GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote: The recent thread (in the W7 'group only) about converting VHS (to DVD was in the title of that thread, but to disc file equally) made me wonder: What experience have people had with converting old cine film? (Or new for that matter! But I can't imagine many people are still shooting it.) I've done it a few times. It requires specific hardware and a lot of time that could be better spent doing other things. There's no real money in this area to do it these days. -- https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php "You, you, and you ... Panic. The rest of you, come with me." - U.S. Marine Corp Gunnery Sgt. |
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converting cine film
In article , says...
pjp wrote: J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: What experience have people had with converting old cine film? (Or new for that matter! But I can't imagine many people are still shooting it.) If you can get the output to SVGA or Composite then the easiest way by far is simply connect playback device to a hardware dvd recorder. That's like saying your flashlight has RCA ports for SVGA or composite. Really? There are *film* projectors with RCA connectors? Never saw one. Neglecting the audio component and just looking at the video components, projectors have a bulb aka lamp, shutter, sprockets to position and halt each film frame behind the lens, and motor to move the film and mechanical parts. To what logic or circuitry would the RCA ports connect in a film projector? The projector doesn't itself capture the image. It's just shining a light through the film. http://entertainment.howstuffworks.c...projector1.htm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En__V0oEJsU I very much doubt Gilliver has a projector with an internal CCD screen to capture the image and output to signal connectors instead of projecting the modified light to a screen. If he had one of those, he would definitely remember having one and not have asked about how to convert film to video. Maybe you forgot Gilliver was asking how to convert *film* to video, not about converting VHS tapes to video/disc. You know exactly what was meant, e.g. vcr's, dvd players, reel-to-reel, camcorder units etc. etc. I was under impression original post was about 8Mm tapes and those players provided suitable outputs. Of course FILM doesn't provide any type of output except light without something special as an extra. You just want to "I dunno what?". |
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converting cine film
In message , pjp
writes: In article , says... [] Maybe you forgot Gilliver was asking how to convert *film* to video, not about converting VHS tapes to video/disc. You know exactly what was meant, e.g. vcr's, dvd players, reel-to-reel, camcorder units etc. etc. I was under impression original post was about 8Mm tapes and those players provided suitable outputs. I did include the words "cine film" in the subject line. Of course FILM doesn't provide any type of output except light without something special as an extra. You just want to "I dunno what?". -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf If, after hearing my songs, just one human being is inspired to say something nasty to a friend, or perhaps to strike a loved one, it will all have been worth the while. - Liner notes, "Songs & More Songs By Tom Lehrer", Rhino Records, 1997. |
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converting cine film
On 7/2/2017 3:48 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
The recent thread (in the W7 'group only) about converting VHS (to DVD was in the title of that thread, but to disc file equally) made me wonder: What experience have people had with converting old cine film? (Or new for that matter! But I can't imagine many people are still shooting it.) I have a certain amount of standard and super 8 film; fortunately not sound, so that's one less thing to worry about. I _think_ I still have the projectors (-:! I'd be interested to hear others' experiences in converting these: do you just set up the projector and point a video camera at the screen? I can't think of any other way, but can see lots of problems: not only optical (getting things lined up, do you use a large or small image, do you actually shoot from the opposite side of the screen, do you even do something odd like projecting directly onto the sensor), but matters of sync: IIRR (silent) standard 8 used 16 frames per second and super 8 18 [I think 24 for sound film], which don't map well to the 24 or 25 of "PAL" or the 30 of NTSC which the video camera is likely to be (I'm in "PAL"-land) - especially as most projectors actually cut the beam twice per frame to reduce flicker? What experience do people have of the (usually rather expensive) high/main street shops which offer such conversion facilities: do _they_ just use a projector/camera setup? I can see that the best possible method would use a telecine machine like the broadcasters use (which does not use intermittent-motion), but I very much doubt most shops offering "conversion" services have anything like that. So, generally - what are people's thoughts/experiences? Just a random thought triggered by the VHS discussion; I don't anticipate doing it any time soon - a project for retirement. (Though thinking about it now, there may be slightly more urgency than I'd assumed if I'm going to do it using my old projectors, as the longer I leave it there's always increasing chance that belts may have perished or similar, if they haven't already [I was going to say or electronics degraded - capacitors dried out etc. - but I don't think there _is_ any electronics in my old projectors, certainly not the old Russian OMO wheezer for the standard 8!].) (A sign that it's time to think about it: my spelling checker doesn't know "cine"! [And yes I know it really should have an accent.] I came across a .sig or similar on similar lines - something like "You know you're old when you type VCR and the spelling checker wants to change it to vicar.") P. S.: I say the standard 8 was 16 frames per second, though only roughly: it was a clockwork camera! Virtually the same as the Zapruder one, in fact it may even be the same model; not that I'm that old!, but that was what a schoolboy in the 70s in England could afford. But it was _fairly_ steady in speed, and I'd be happy to accept a fixed rate for the conversion, especially as there's no sound. P. P. S: At least when well lit, cine film - even 8mm, especially super 8 (which used more of the film width) - was capable of better-than-SD resolution, though I'll probably not worry too much about that. JP: While I've never done this there IS a product that claims to do what you want in a dedicated package for $300 US. http://secure.mm5server.com/merchant...Yes&Quantity=1 http://www.wolverinedata.com/videos/...ieMaker_V1.pdf No idea what the quality is like. HTH & GL John -- |
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converting cine film
pjp wrote:
In article , says... pjp wrote: J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: What experience have people had with converting old cine film? (Or new for that matter! But I can't imagine many people are still shooting it.) If you can get the output to SVGA or Composite then the easiest way by far is simply connect playback device to a hardware dvd recorder. That's like saying your flashlight has RCA ports for SVGA or composite. Really? There are *film* projectors with RCA connectors? Never saw one. Neglecting the audio component and just looking at the video components, projectors have a bulb aka lamp, shutter, sprockets to position and halt each film frame behind the lens, and motor to move the film and mechanical parts. To what logic or circuitry would the RCA ports connect in a film projector? The projector doesn't itself capture the image. It's just shining a light through the film. http://entertainment.howstuffworks.c...projector1.htm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En__V0oEJsU I very much doubt Gilliver has a projector with an internal CCD screen to capture the image and output to signal connectors instead of projecting the modified light to a screen. If he had one of those, he would definitely remember having one and not have asked about how to convert film to video. Maybe you forgot Gilliver was asking how to convert *film* to video, not about converting VHS tapes to video/disc. You know exactly what was meant, e.g. vcr's, dvd players, reel-to-reel, camcorder units etc. etc. I was under impression original post was about 8Mm tapes and those players provided suitable outputs. In the other thread in the Win7 newsgroup, that OP only wanted the audio because his friend is blind. So audio outputs from a film projector would work if the projector had those outputs. Yes, I know what you meant but you forget THIS discussion was about converting film - both video and audio. Reel-to-reel is just audio tape, not film. Camcorders combine a video camera with a videocassette recorder. Those don't use film. They started out using tape and then to flash memory. 8mm audio tapes is not what Gilliver asked about. He has some 8mm film reels (and why he added "cine" to his description). 8mm audio tape: http://tinyurl.com/y7ruf4ln 8mm film: http://tinyurl.com/y7ububnf Of course FILM doesn't provide any type of output except light without something special as an extra. You're back on track. Film, as in photographic film with frames of images and an audio track on the side. Not [audio] tape. You just want to "I dunno what?". It's now my fault that you misunderstood? Uh huh. |
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