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WTF happened to my BIOS settings?



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 21st 16, 09:32 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Yes[_2_]
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Posts: 76
Default WTF happened to my BIOS settings?

Which MS "update" messed around with BIOS settings?

It used to be that I could change my BIOS settings to boot from a
specific drive. I could use the BIOS boot priority section to switch
back to my older WinXP install - separate HD - so that I could run a
perfectly working scanner (Visioneer) to scan an occasional document
(Win8.1 does not support the specific model I have though it does
support other models from Visioneer) and then re-boot into BIOS to go
back to my Win 8.1 install.

Today, I tried booting up my old WinXP install, and regardless of which
drive I selected, my pc would only boot into Windows 8.1. In BIOS, I
can see all my drives and my DVD device listed. I can specify from
which one I want to boot, but my settings are totally ignored, and the
pc boots into Windows 8.1 It did work about six months ago when I had
to scan some documents.

Needless to say, I am really ticked off about this. This is not
acceptable.

John Howland
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  #2  
Old March 21st 16, 09:37 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Ken Blake[_5_]
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Posts: 2,221
Default WTF happened to my BIOS settings?

On Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:32:33 -0000 (UTC), "Yes"
wrote:

Which MS "update" messed around with BIOS settings?



None! Neither Windows update nor any part of Windows has any access
to your BIOS.
  #3  
Old March 21st 16, 10:34 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
philo
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Posts: 4,807
Default WTF happened to my BIOS settings?

On 03/21/2016 03:37 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:32:33 -0000 (UTC), "Yes"
wrote:

Which MS "update" messed around with BIOS settings?



None! Neither Windows update nor any part of Windows has any access
to your BIOS.




Absolutely true, the bootsector must have gotten re-written


This might help


http://www.intowindows.com/how-to-du...dows-8-and-xp/
  #4  
Old March 22nd 16, 12:13 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Paul
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Posts: 18,275
Default WTF happened to my BIOS settings?

Yes wrote:
Which MS "update" messed around with BIOS settings?

It used to be that I could change my BIOS settings to boot from a
specific drive. I could use the BIOS boot priority section to switch
back to my older WinXP install - separate HD - so that I could run a
perfectly working scanner (Visioneer) to scan an occasional document
(Win8.1 does not support the specific model I have though it does
support other models from Visioneer) and then re-boot into BIOS to go
back to my Win 8.1 install.

Today, I tried booting up my old WinXP install, and regardless of which
drive I selected, my pc would only boot into Windows 8.1. In BIOS, I
can see all my drives and my DVD device listed. I can specify from
which one I want to boot, but my settings are totally ignored, and the
pc boots into Windows 8.1 It did work about six months ago when I had
to scan some documents.

Needless to say, I am really ticked off about this. This is not
acceptable.

John Howland


Kernel hibernation got you :-)
This is also known as Fast Boot or Fast Start.

*******

There are two ways to hibernate a Win10 system.

1) Total hibernation. S4. Hiberfile contains the
entire session, your open Microsoft Word windows is
still there and so on.

2) Kernel hibernation. Still uses S4 from a hardware
perspective. Using S4 prevents BIOS "interaction".
You cannot use the popup boot menu when this happens.

Kernel hibernation just keeps the kernel image in
a warm state. (All the session programs have closed,
because they think it's a shutdown command.) Later,
at boot, the OS reads the kernel image, and
warm-starts the drivers, rather than reading in all
the separate files in the normal (lengthy) boot
sequence.

However, this method is counter-productive for
people who multi-boot.

You need to disable Fast Start, to regain control.

http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/4...dows-10-a.html

I like to use this from an Administrator command prompt
window, but this is a bit of overkill. One reason, is
the test machine has a lot of RAM, and true hibernation
as in (1) above, would take a long time. This kills both
(1) and (2), which is why it is overkill. But, you can be
assured, that an OS sporting this setting, can never
interfere again. This has some other nice side effects,
so write this one down for later. You may still want
to use it some day. (I don't know how many different
versions of this command are out there, and why my memory
of what command to use, I seem to see other versions
on the 'net..."

"Powercfg Command-Line Options"
https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/...(v=ws.10).aspx

powercfg -h off
powercfg /hibernate off

HTH,
Paul
  #5  
Old March 22nd 16, 04:13 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
B00ze
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 472
Default WTF happened to my BIOS settings?

On 2016-03-21 19:13, Paul wrote:

Yes wrote:
Which MS "update" messed around with BIOS settings?

It used to be that I could change my BIOS settings to boot from a
specific drive. I could use the BIOS boot priority section to switch
back to my older WinXP install - separate HD - so that I could run a
perfectly working scanner (Visioneer) to scan an occasional document
(Win8.1 does not support the specific model I have though it does
support other models from Visioneer) and then re-boot into BIOS to go
back to my Win 8.1 install.

Today, I tried booting up my old WinXP install, and regardless of which
drive I selected, my pc would only boot into Windows 8.1. In BIOS, I
can see all my drives and my DVD device listed. I can specify from
which one I want to boot, but my settings are totally ignored, and the
pc boots into Windows 8.1 It did work about six months ago when I had
to scan some documents.

Needless to say, I am really ticked off about this. This is not
acceptable.

John Howland


Kernel hibernation got you :-)
This is also known as Fast Boot or Fast Start.


You think so? I thought of that too, but then, why would the Xp loader
(lets assume on Disk #1) go look for the hibernation flags on Disk #0?
Is it really that intelligent? I mean, it's a good thing that it is,
otherwise Disk #0 would mount in Xp and corrupt, but I'm impressed it
looks at all disks when it boots...

Best Regards,

--
! _\|/_ Sylvain /
! (o o) Memberavid-Suzuki-Fdn/EFF/Red+Cross/SPCA/Planetary-Society-
oO-( )-Oo 42? Seven million years and that's ALL you came up with?
  #6  
Old March 22nd 16, 04:39 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Yes[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 76
Default WTF happened to my BIOS settings?

philo wrote:

On 03/21/2016 03:37 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:32:33 -0000 (UTC), "Yes"
wrote:

Which MS "update" messed around with BIOS settings?



None! Neither Windows update nor any part of Windows has any access
to your BIOS.




Absolutely true, the bootsector must have gotten re-written


This might help


http://www.intowindows.com/how-to-du...dows-8-and-xp/


The article doesn't really make much sense to me; it seems geared to
someone who wants to install a dual boot of Windows 8 and WinXP. I
already have both O/S's installed and want to get my existing WinXP
back. IIRC, when I installed Windows 8.1, I had bought a new HD
specifically for the Windows 8.1 O/S. I disconnected the cables from
my other HDs, installed Win 8.1, reconnected the other HDs and entered
BIOS to choose which HD I would want to boot from. I have not had a
problem doing that until today.
  #7  
Old March 22nd 16, 06:08 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,275
Default WTF happened to my BIOS settings?

B00ze wrote:
On 2016-03-21 19:13, Paul wrote:

Yes wrote:
Which MS "update" messed around with BIOS settings?

It used to be that I could change my BIOS settings to boot from a
specific drive. I could use the BIOS boot priority section to switch
back to my older WinXP install - separate HD - so that I could run a
perfectly working scanner (Visioneer) to scan an occasional document
(Win8.1 does not support the specific model I have though it does
support other models from Visioneer) and then re-boot into BIOS to go
back to my Win 8.1 install.

Today, I tried booting up my old WinXP install, and regardless of which
drive I selected, my pc would only boot into Windows 8.1. In BIOS, I
can see all my drives and my DVD device listed. I can specify from
which one I want to boot, but my settings are totally ignored, and the
pc boots into Windows 8.1 It did work about six months ago when I had
to scan some documents.

Needless to say, I am really ticked off about this. This is not
acceptable.

John Howland


Kernel hibernation got you :-)
This is also known as Fast Boot or Fast Start.


You think so? I thought of that too, but then, why would the Xp loader
(lets assume on Disk #1) go look for the hibernation flags on Disk #0?
Is it really that intelligent? I mean, it's a good thing that it is,
otherwise Disk #0 would mount in Xp and corrupt, but I'm impressed it
looks at all disks when it boots...

Best Regards,


My guess is the BIOS plays a part.

The BIOS, after all, figures out it is
coming out of S4, and politely ignores
all user key presses. Then loads the
previous OS. I'm not clear on the details,
as to what role the OS plays. But something
has to put a particular disk, back in control.

Paul
  #8  
Old March 22nd 16, 06:18 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Yes[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 76
Default WTF happened to my BIOS settings? - sort of fixed

Yes wrote:

Which MS "update" messed around with BIOS settings?

-- snipped --


I still don't know why Windows 8.1 did what it did, and I still don't
like it. AFAIC, it is not Microsoft's perogative to change how my
computer boots up; that is my decision. I've been on the fence for
some time whether to upgrade to Windows 10, but if this behavior is
typical of how the O/S will behave, I have much less desire to upgrade.
Rant off

Anyway, I did manage to boot my WinXP install and scanned the document
for my records.

It was a kludgy procedure and did not follow any of the suggestions you
all provided. Here's what I did for those interested:
1. backed my way into the Windows 8.1 "Safe Mode" menu options
because I'm not that familiar with it. For this step, I used the
search function found under those icons on the right side of the
screen
2. clicked on the "safe mode" link that looked like it was the most
relavant - there were several choices, btw
3. the new screen that popped up gave multiple options; IIRC, I chose
the one that corresponded the most with what I remember about
"safe mode" when using the F8 (?) key during pre-Windows 8.1
BIOS boot up
4. the next choice was to restart the computer in "safe mode"
5. used the Delete key to force BIOS options to display
6. changed the boot priority of the drives to the one that my WinXP
is on, saved changes and exited to let BIOS continue boot up
7. computer booted into WinXP (thank goodness) and did what I needed
8. exited WinXP using restart option
9. repeated step 5 and then rearranged boot priority to the HD that
Windows 8.1 is on, saved BIOS changes and resumed boot up
10. mission accomplished.

John

  #9  
Old March 22nd 16, 10:36 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Bill[_40_]
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Posts: 346
Default WTF happened to my BIOS settings?

In message , Paul writes
My guess is the BIOS plays a part.

The BIOS, after all, figures out it is
coming out of S4, and politely ignores
all user key presses. Then loads the
previous OS. I'm not clear on the details,
as to what role the OS plays. But something
has to put a particular disk, back in control.


Back in the old days, I used dedicated cards to act on switch inputs and
perform switching outputs from PC's. They used the ISA bus.
Then machines stopped having an ISA bus and the PCI bus became the
standard. The switching card manufacturer brought out a PCI version,
which we had to change to.
The ISA addressing of the cards had been simple. On PCI, card addresses
could change depending on how the machine booted. I had to write a
little program to interrogate the machine as it booted and allocate
switching resources so that it always worked.

My simple understanding of the process was that as the machine booted
there was a negotiation between the bios, the OS and the PCI bus
firmware that allocated resources "on the fly".

I have never found an explanation, understandable by a simpleton like
me, of how this worked. I would love to find a straightforward
description of how modern PC's make boot decisions.
--
Bill
  #10  
Old March 22nd 16, 01:03 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
philo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,807
Default WTF happened to my BIOS settings?

On 03/21/2016 10:39 PM, Yes wrote:


This might help


http://www.intowindows.com/how-to-du...dows-8-and-xp/


The article doesn't really make much sense to me; it seems geared to
someone who wants to install a dual boot of Windows 8 and WinXP. I
already have both O/S's installed and want to get my existing WinXP
back. IIRC, when I installed Windows 8.1, I had bought a new HD
specifically for the Windows 8.1 O/S. I disconnected the cables from
my other HDs, installed Win 8.1, reconnected the other HDs and entered
BIOS to choose which HD I would want to boot from. I have not had a
problem doing that until today.




Ok if you had the XP drive disconnected when you did the Win8.1 install,
it of course should not have affected the drive.

Test this out: Remove the Win8.1 drive and connect the XP drive and see
if it boots.


If it does not boot...is the bios set to mbr or eufi ?


  #11  
Old March 22nd 16, 02:20 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Yes[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 76
Default WTF happened to my BIOS settings?

philo wrote:

On 03/21/2016 10:39 PM, Yes wrote:


This might help


http://www.intowindows.com/how-to-du...dows-8-and-xp/


The article doesn't really make much sense to me; it seems geared to
someone who wants to install a dual boot of Windows 8 and WinXP. I
already have both O/S's installed and want to get my existing WinXP
back. IIRC, when I installed Windows 8.1, I had bought a new HD
specifically for the Windows 8.1 O/S. I disconnected the cables
from my other HDs, installed Win 8.1, reconnected the other HDs and
entered BIOS to choose which HD I would want to boot from. I have
not had a problem doing that until today.




Ok if you had the XP drive disconnected when you did the Win8.1
install, it of course should not have affected the drive.

Test this out: Remove the Win8.1 drive and connect the XP drive and
see if it boots.


If it does not boot...is the bios set to mbr or eufi ?


Not sure. I finally did get into my WinXP install by going into safe
mode by way of the Win 8.1 install. My other post this thread gives
the step by step report of what I did.
  #12  
Old March 22nd 16, 02:50 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Yes[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 76
Default WTF happened to my BIOS settings?

Bill wrote:

In message , Paul
writes
My guess is the BIOS plays a part.

The BIOS, after all, figures out it is
coming out of S4, and politely ignores
all user key presses. Then loads the
previous OS. I'm not clear on the details,
as to what role the OS plays. But something
has to put a particular disk, back in control.


Back in the old days, I used dedicated cards to act on switch inputs
and perform switching outputs from PC's. They used the ISA bus. Then
machines stopped having an ISA bus and the PCI bus became the
standard. The switching card manufacturer brought out a PCI version,
which we had to change to. The ISA addressing of the cards had been
simple. On PCI, card addresses could change depending on how the
machine booted. I had to write a little program to interrogate the
machine as it booted and allocate switching resources so that it
always worked.

My simple understanding of the process was that as the machine booted
there was a negotiation between the bios, the OS and the PCI bus
firmware that allocated resources "on the fly".

I have never found an explanation, understandable by a simpleton like
me, of how this worked. I would love to find a straightforward
description of how modern PC's make boot decisions.


Paul, Bill

It certainly involved the BIOS. I am even more in the dark than either
of you as to what happened. I did get things squared away, though, and
got into my WinXP install; my other post in this thread gives a step by
step detail of what I did. After I read the articles everyone gave, I
remembered safe mode boot up and gave that a shot. I was able to get
back to where I was before this whole messy business started. As far
as I can tell, there were no corrupted MBR files when XP booted, and I
was able to start and scan the document I needed.

The long term project for me will be to learn and become comfortable
using a VM on my Win 8.1 install and then test if I can access and use
my scanner that way. I've searched for a new driver for my scanner to
work under 8.1 but discovered that Visioneer does not provide one for
this scanner, Windoes 8.1's scanner driver does not work with this
model, and no third party has published one.

The only advice I've seen in other forums has been to trash the
existing scanner and buy a new one. Regardless of how pragmatic that
suggestion is, I find it obnoxious, a tad repellant and a waste of my
money; I don't like the idea of trashing something that works perfectly
well just because the newer OS can't/won't use it. From a practical
POV, I may have to do that, but it bothers me to take that approach.
It's wasteful. Hence, my thought of seeing if a WinXP VM will
recognize the scanner.

Thanks,

John
  #13  
Old March 22nd 16, 02:59 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
philo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,807
Default WTF happened to my BIOS settings?

On 03/22/2016 08:20 AM, Yes wrote:


If it does not boot...is the bios set to mbr or eufi ?


Not sure. I finally did get into my WinXP install by going into safe
mode by way of the Win 8.1 install. My other post this thread gives
the step by step report of what I did.




I read that over and it was not Windows that changed your BIOS
settings...the settings changed when /you/ removed the XP drive to
perform the Win8.1 install.

That's happened to me...it's just a matter of putting the BIOS settings
back to where they were originally. From what I've gathered, you got it
sorted out.
  #14  
Old March 22nd 16, 04:45 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Ken Blake[_5_]
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Posts: 2,221
Default WTF happened to my BIOS settings? - sort of fixed

On Tue, 22 Mar 2016 05:18:38 -0000 (UTC), "Yes"
wrote:

I still don't know why Windows 8.1 did what it did, and I still don't
like it. AFAIC, it is not Microsoft's perogative to change how my
computer boots up; that is my decision.



It's is Microsoft's prerogative to do whatever it wants with Windows;
it is yours to decide whether you like what they did, and run that
version or not.

It 'is no different than it is with any other product such as cars: it
is Ford's prerogative to design its new model car any way it wants (at
long as it meets legal requirements); it is your to decide whether you
like the way it looks, how comfortable it is, how reliable it is, how
much fun it is to drive, how much it costs, etc., and buy it or not.
  #15  
Old March 22nd 16, 05:58 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Bill[_40_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 346
Default WTF happened to my BIOS settings?

In message , Yes
writes
The long term project for me will be to learn and become comfortable
using a VM on my Win 8.1 install and then test if I can access and use
my scanner that way. I've searched for a new driver for my scanner to
work under 8.1 but discovered that Visioneer does not provide one for
this scanner, Windoes 8.1's scanner driver does not work with this
model, and no third party has published one.


I am the "proud" owner of an NEC Petiscan, which is unique in that it
works as a "see through" scanner. You can hold it up to anything, look
through it and it scans what you see.
It only ever had W98 drivers, plus some unofficial W2k drivers that
were, apparently, iffy.

I managed to get it working via a W98 virtual machine with help from
usenet. It wasn't easy, as the virtual W98 had to have usb drivers
added, and, additionally, usb pass-through had to be enabled. All the
drivers, text boxes and buttons were in Japanese, which didn't help
either.

I'm sure the Visioneer will be a doddle.
--
Bill
 




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