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#1
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WTF happened to my BIOS settings?
Which MS "update" messed around with BIOS settings?
It used to be that I could change my BIOS settings to boot from a specific drive. I could use the BIOS boot priority section to switch back to my older WinXP install - separate HD - so that I could run a perfectly working scanner (Visioneer) to scan an occasional document (Win8.1 does not support the specific model I have though it does support other models from Visioneer) and then re-boot into BIOS to go back to my Win 8.1 install. Today, I tried booting up my old WinXP install, and regardless of which drive I selected, my pc would only boot into Windows 8.1. In BIOS, I can see all my drives and my DVD device listed. I can specify from which one I want to boot, but my settings are totally ignored, and the pc boots into Windows 8.1 It did work about six months ago when I had to scan some documents. Needless to say, I am really ticked off about this. This is not acceptable. John Howland |
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#2
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WTF happened to my BIOS settings?
On Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:32:33 -0000 (UTC), "Yes"
wrote: Which MS "update" messed around with BIOS settings? None! Neither Windows update nor any part of Windows has any access to your BIOS. |
#3
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WTF happened to my BIOS settings?
On 03/21/2016 03:37 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:32:33 -0000 (UTC), "Yes" wrote: Which MS "update" messed around with BIOS settings? None! Neither Windows update nor any part of Windows has any access to your BIOS. Absolutely true, the bootsector must have gotten re-written This might help http://www.intowindows.com/how-to-du...dows-8-and-xp/ |
#4
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WTF happened to my BIOS settings?
Yes wrote:
Which MS "update" messed around with BIOS settings? It used to be that I could change my BIOS settings to boot from a specific drive. I could use the BIOS boot priority section to switch back to my older WinXP install - separate HD - so that I could run a perfectly working scanner (Visioneer) to scan an occasional document (Win8.1 does not support the specific model I have though it does support other models from Visioneer) and then re-boot into BIOS to go back to my Win 8.1 install. Today, I tried booting up my old WinXP install, and regardless of which drive I selected, my pc would only boot into Windows 8.1. In BIOS, I can see all my drives and my DVD device listed. I can specify from which one I want to boot, but my settings are totally ignored, and the pc boots into Windows 8.1 It did work about six months ago when I had to scan some documents. Needless to say, I am really ticked off about this. This is not acceptable. John Howland Kernel hibernation got you :-) This is also known as Fast Boot or Fast Start. ******* There are two ways to hibernate a Win10 system. 1) Total hibernation. S4. Hiberfile contains the entire session, your open Microsoft Word windows is still there and so on. 2) Kernel hibernation. Still uses S4 from a hardware perspective. Using S4 prevents BIOS "interaction". You cannot use the popup boot menu when this happens. Kernel hibernation just keeps the kernel image in a warm state. (All the session programs have closed, because they think it's a shutdown command.) Later, at boot, the OS reads the kernel image, and warm-starts the drivers, rather than reading in all the separate files in the normal (lengthy) boot sequence. However, this method is counter-productive for people who multi-boot. You need to disable Fast Start, to regain control. http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/4...dows-10-a.html I like to use this from an Administrator command prompt window, but this is a bit of overkill. One reason, is the test machine has a lot of RAM, and true hibernation as in (1) above, would take a long time. This kills both (1) and (2), which is why it is overkill. But, you can be assured, that an OS sporting this setting, can never interfere again. This has some other nice side effects, so write this one down for later. You may still want to use it some day. (I don't know how many different versions of this command are out there, and why my memory of what command to use, I seem to see other versions on the 'net..." "Powercfg Command-Line Options" https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/...(v=ws.10).aspx powercfg -h off powercfg /hibernate off HTH, Paul |
#5
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WTF happened to my BIOS settings?
On 2016-03-21 19:13, Paul wrote:
Yes wrote: Which MS "update" messed around with BIOS settings? It used to be that I could change my BIOS settings to boot from a specific drive. I could use the BIOS boot priority section to switch back to my older WinXP install - separate HD - so that I could run a perfectly working scanner (Visioneer) to scan an occasional document (Win8.1 does not support the specific model I have though it does support other models from Visioneer) and then re-boot into BIOS to go back to my Win 8.1 install. Today, I tried booting up my old WinXP install, and regardless of which drive I selected, my pc would only boot into Windows 8.1. In BIOS, I can see all my drives and my DVD device listed. I can specify from which one I want to boot, but my settings are totally ignored, and the pc boots into Windows 8.1 It did work about six months ago when I had to scan some documents. Needless to say, I am really ticked off about this. This is not acceptable. John Howland Kernel hibernation got you :-) This is also known as Fast Boot or Fast Start. You think so? I thought of that too, but then, why would the Xp loader (lets assume on Disk #1) go look for the hibernation flags on Disk #0? Is it really that intelligent? I mean, it's a good thing that it is, otherwise Disk #0 would mount in Xp and corrupt, but I'm impressed it looks at all disks when it boots... Best Regards, -- ! _\|/_ Sylvain / ! (o o) Memberavid-Suzuki-Fdn/EFF/Red+Cross/SPCA/Planetary-Society- oO-( )-Oo 42? Seven million years and that's ALL you came up with? |
#6
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WTF happened to my BIOS settings?
philo wrote:
On 03/21/2016 03:37 PM, Ken Blake wrote: On Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:32:33 -0000 (UTC), "Yes" wrote: Which MS "update" messed around with BIOS settings? None! Neither Windows update nor any part of Windows has any access to your BIOS. Absolutely true, the bootsector must have gotten re-written This might help http://www.intowindows.com/how-to-du...dows-8-and-xp/ The article doesn't really make much sense to me; it seems geared to someone who wants to install a dual boot of Windows 8 and WinXP. I already have both O/S's installed and want to get my existing WinXP back. IIRC, when I installed Windows 8.1, I had bought a new HD specifically for the Windows 8.1 O/S. I disconnected the cables from my other HDs, installed Win 8.1, reconnected the other HDs and entered BIOS to choose which HD I would want to boot from. I have not had a problem doing that until today. |
#7
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WTF happened to my BIOS settings?
B00ze wrote:
On 2016-03-21 19:13, Paul wrote: Yes wrote: Which MS "update" messed around with BIOS settings? It used to be that I could change my BIOS settings to boot from a specific drive. I could use the BIOS boot priority section to switch back to my older WinXP install - separate HD - so that I could run a perfectly working scanner (Visioneer) to scan an occasional document (Win8.1 does not support the specific model I have though it does support other models from Visioneer) and then re-boot into BIOS to go back to my Win 8.1 install. Today, I tried booting up my old WinXP install, and regardless of which drive I selected, my pc would only boot into Windows 8.1. In BIOS, I can see all my drives and my DVD device listed. I can specify from which one I want to boot, but my settings are totally ignored, and the pc boots into Windows 8.1 It did work about six months ago when I had to scan some documents. Needless to say, I am really ticked off about this. This is not acceptable. John Howland Kernel hibernation got you :-) This is also known as Fast Boot or Fast Start. You think so? I thought of that too, but then, why would the Xp loader (lets assume on Disk #1) go look for the hibernation flags on Disk #0? Is it really that intelligent? I mean, it's a good thing that it is, otherwise Disk #0 would mount in Xp and corrupt, but I'm impressed it looks at all disks when it boots... Best Regards, My guess is the BIOS plays a part. The BIOS, after all, figures out it is coming out of S4, and politely ignores all user key presses. Then loads the previous OS. I'm not clear on the details, as to what role the OS plays. But something has to put a particular disk, back in control. Paul |
#8
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WTF happened to my BIOS settings? - sort of fixed
Yes wrote:
Which MS "update" messed around with BIOS settings? -- snipped -- I still don't know why Windows 8.1 did what it did, and I still don't like it. AFAIC, it is not Microsoft's perogative to change how my computer boots up; that is my decision. I've been on the fence for some time whether to upgrade to Windows 10, but if this behavior is typical of how the O/S will behave, I have much less desire to upgrade. Rant off Anyway, I did manage to boot my WinXP install and scanned the document for my records. It was a kludgy procedure and did not follow any of the suggestions you all provided. Here's what I did for those interested: 1. backed my way into the Windows 8.1 "Safe Mode" menu options because I'm not that familiar with it. For this step, I used the search function found under those icons on the right side of the screen 2. clicked on the "safe mode" link that looked like it was the most relavant - there were several choices, btw 3. the new screen that popped up gave multiple options; IIRC, I chose the one that corresponded the most with what I remember about "safe mode" when using the F8 (?) key during pre-Windows 8.1 BIOS boot up 4. the next choice was to restart the computer in "safe mode" 5. used the Delete key to force BIOS options to display 6. changed the boot priority of the drives to the one that my WinXP is on, saved changes and exited to let BIOS continue boot up 7. computer booted into WinXP (thank goodness) and did what I needed 8. exited WinXP using restart option 9. repeated step 5 and then rearranged boot priority to the HD that Windows 8.1 is on, saved BIOS changes and resumed boot up 10. mission accomplished. John |
#9
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WTF happened to my BIOS settings?
In message , Paul writes
My guess is the BIOS plays a part. The BIOS, after all, figures out it is coming out of S4, and politely ignores all user key presses. Then loads the previous OS. I'm not clear on the details, as to what role the OS plays. But something has to put a particular disk, back in control. Back in the old days, I used dedicated cards to act on switch inputs and perform switching outputs from PC's. They used the ISA bus. Then machines stopped having an ISA bus and the PCI bus became the standard. The switching card manufacturer brought out a PCI version, which we had to change to. The ISA addressing of the cards had been simple. On PCI, card addresses could change depending on how the machine booted. I had to write a little program to interrogate the machine as it booted and allocate switching resources so that it always worked. My simple understanding of the process was that as the machine booted there was a negotiation between the bios, the OS and the PCI bus firmware that allocated resources "on the fly". I have never found an explanation, understandable by a simpleton like me, of how this worked. I would love to find a straightforward description of how modern PC's make boot decisions. -- Bill |
#10
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WTF happened to my BIOS settings?
On 03/21/2016 10:39 PM, Yes wrote:
This might help http://www.intowindows.com/how-to-du...dows-8-and-xp/ The article doesn't really make much sense to me; it seems geared to someone who wants to install a dual boot of Windows 8 and WinXP. I already have both O/S's installed and want to get my existing WinXP back. IIRC, when I installed Windows 8.1, I had bought a new HD specifically for the Windows 8.1 O/S. I disconnected the cables from my other HDs, installed Win 8.1, reconnected the other HDs and entered BIOS to choose which HD I would want to boot from. I have not had a problem doing that until today. Ok if you had the XP drive disconnected when you did the Win8.1 install, it of course should not have affected the drive. Test this out: Remove the Win8.1 drive and connect the XP drive and see if it boots. If it does not boot...is the bios set to mbr or eufi ? |
#11
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WTF happened to my BIOS settings?
philo wrote:
On 03/21/2016 10:39 PM, Yes wrote: This might help http://www.intowindows.com/how-to-du...dows-8-and-xp/ The article doesn't really make much sense to me; it seems geared to someone who wants to install a dual boot of Windows 8 and WinXP. I already have both O/S's installed and want to get my existing WinXP back. IIRC, when I installed Windows 8.1, I had bought a new HD specifically for the Windows 8.1 O/S. I disconnected the cables from my other HDs, installed Win 8.1, reconnected the other HDs and entered BIOS to choose which HD I would want to boot from. I have not had a problem doing that until today. Ok if you had the XP drive disconnected when you did the Win8.1 install, it of course should not have affected the drive. Test this out: Remove the Win8.1 drive and connect the XP drive and see if it boots. If it does not boot...is the bios set to mbr or eufi ? Not sure. I finally did get into my WinXP install by going into safe mode by way of the Win 8.1 install. My other post this thread gives the step by step report of what I did. |
#12
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WTF happened to my BIOS settings?
Bill wrote:
In message , Paul writes My guess is the BIOS plays a part. The BIOS, after all, figures out it is coming out of S4, and politely ignores all user key presses. Then loads the previous OS. I'm not clear on the details, as to what role the OS plays. But something has to put a particular disk, back in control. Back in the old days, I used dedicated cards to act on switch inputs and perform switching outputs from PC's. They used the ISA bus. Then machines stopped having an ISA bus and the PCI bus became the standard. The switching card manufacturer brought out a PCI version, which we had to change to. The ISA addressing of the cards had been simple. On PCI, card addresses could change depending on how the machine booted. I had to write a little program to interrogate the machine as it booted and allocate switching resources so that it always worked. My simple understanding of the process was that as the machine booted there was a negotiation between the bios, the OS and the PCI bus firmware that allocated resources "on the fly". I have never found an explanation, understandable by a simpleton like me, of how this worked. I would love to find a straightforward description of how modern PC's make boot decisions. Paul, Bill It certainly involved the BIOS. I am even more in the dark than either of you as to what happened. I did get things squared away, though, and got into my WinXP install; my other post in this thread gives a step by step detail of what I did. After I read the articles everyone gave, I remembered safe mode boot up and gave that a shot. I was able to get back to where I was before this whole messy business started. As far as I can tell, there were no corrupted MBR files when XP booted, and I was able to start and scan the document I needed. The long term project for me will be to learn and become comfortable using a VM on my Win 8.1 install and then test if I can access and use my scanner that way. I've searched for a new driver for my scanner to work under 8.1 but discovered that Visioneer does not provide one for this scanner, Windoes 8.1's scanner driver does not work with this model, and no third party has published one. The only advice I've seen in other forums has been to trash the existing scanner and buy a new one. Regardless of how pragmatic that suggestion is, I find it obnoxious, a tad repellant and a waste of my money; I don't like the idea of trashing something that works perfectly well just because the newer OS can't/won't use it. From a practical POV, I may have to do that, but it bothers me to take that approach. It's wasteful. Hence, my thought of seeing if a WinXP VM will recognize the scanner. Thanks, John |
#13
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WTF happened to my BIOS settings?
On 03/22/2016 08:20 AM, Yes wrote:
If it does not boot...is the bios set to mbr or eufi ? Not sure. I finally did get into my WinXP install by going into safe mode by way of the Win 8.1 install. My other post this thread gives the step by step report of what I did. I read that over and it was not Windows that changed your BIOS settings...the settings changed when /you/ removed the XP drive to perform the Win8.1 install. That's happened to me...it's just a matter of putting the BIOS settings back to where they were originally. From what I've gathered, you got it sorted out. |
#14
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WTF happened to my BIOS settings? - sort of fixed
On Tue, 22 Mar 2016 05:18:38 -0000 (UTC), "Yes"
wrote: I still don't know why Windows 8.1 did what it did, and I still don't like it. AFAIC, it is not Microsoft's perogative to change how my computer boots up; that is my decision. It's is Microsoft's prerogative to do whatever it wants with Windows; it is yours to decide whether you like what they did, and run that version or not. It 'is no different than it is with any other product such as cars: it is Ford's prerogative to design its new model car any way it wants (at long as it meets legal requirements); it is your to decide whether you like the way it looks, how comfortable it is, how reliable it is, how much fun it is to drive, how much it costs, etc., and buy it or not. |
#15
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WTF happened to my BIOS settings?
In message , Yes
writes The long term project for me will be to learn and become comfortable using a VM on my Win 8.1 install and then test if I can access and use my scanner that way. I've searched for a new driver for my scanner to work under 8.1 but discovered that Visioneer does not provide one for this scanner, Windoes 8.1's scanner driver does not work with this model, and no third party has published one. I am the "proud" owner of an NEC Petiscan, which is unique in that it works as a "see through" scanner. You can hold it up to anything, look through it and it scans what you see. It only ever had W98 drivers, plus some unofficial W2k drivers that were, apparently, iffy. I managed to get it working via a W98 virtual machine with help from usenet. It wasn't easy, as the virtual W98 had to have usb drivers added, and, additionally, usb pass-through had to be enabled. All the drivers, text boxes and buttons were in Japanese, which didn't help either. I'm sure the Visioneer will be a doddle. -- Bill |
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