What do people use nowadays to put errant programs where they belong?

What do people use nowadays to put errant programs where they belong?

I maintain an efficient and organized Windows system where every installer
goes where I want it to go (if I can make it do so).

I like DeVeDe so I just installed it, but the downloaded Windows
devede-setup-3.17.0-build2.msi doesn't even *ask* where to go. It just
dumbly installs into Program Files (which I never use).

The shortcut in the programs menu (which I also never use) points to:
"C:\Program Files (x86)\MajorSilence\DeVeDe\devede.exe" -imgburn

For me, that's a dumb place to put a program!
It's not organized the way I organize all my other programs.

Without telling me I can use a different dvd authoring program (which I
already know), I ask the windows experts here what's the best way to "move"
DeVeDe to where I want it to go?

I got the MSI from https://devede.org/download/windows

In the olden days (circa Windows 95), I used COA (change of address) but
that's long gone, I think.

What do people use nowadays to put errant programs back where they belong?

For alt.comp.os.windows-10 Lionel Muller wrote:


What do people use nowadays to put errant programs back where they belong?

Bear in mind that I googled first, which is to say I found a few options,
but what I was asking is what experts prefer to use for moving installed
programs into where you want them to be.

Here's one idea that was suggested on the net:
http://www.traynier.com/software/steammover

Despite the name SteamMover, it is said to work on all installations.

For alt.comp.os.windows-10 Lionel Muller wrote:


Despite the name SteamMover, it is said to work on all installations.

I should mention that googling implies that Windows 10 has a way to set the
"default" installation location, but when I tried it, that only worked for
partitions where I don't have any other partition than C: on my PC.

Start Settings PC Settings System Storage Save Locations
New apps will save to: "This PC (C"

If this actually worked in Windows 10 to set the default save location to
where I want it to be, it would be useful.

For alt.comp.os.windows-10 Lionel Muller wrote:


I should mention that googling implies that Windows 10 has a way to set the
"default" installation location, but when I tried it, that only worked for
partitions where I don't have any other partition than C: on my PC.

Googling found this "install dir changer" program, which, unlike Windows 10
settings, purports to set both the partition and the *directory* for new
apps to be installed into.
https://sourceforge.net/projects/install-dir-changer/

Unfortunately, even though I used install-dir-changer to set the default
directory for installing apps in Windows 10, uninstalling and re-installing
DeVeDe still put it into the wrong directory, with an idiotic target of:
"C:\Program Files (x86)\MajorSilence\DeVeDe\devede.exe" -imgburn

So the past may be hard coded into the DeVeDe msi setup program.

"Lionel Muller" wrote

| What do people use nowadays to put errant
| programs back where they belong?

What you have is just a faulty installer. I'm
surprised it doesn't let you choose a location.
If you needed to install to, say, 50 computers
then it might be worth editing the MSI. Otherwise,
I don't know of any easy solution. It's not easy
to know what a move will affect.

Another *possible* option would be to unpack
the MSI and use it that way, as a kind of portable
version. Many programs will run just fine that way,
but some won't. (I sometimes use that method
with installers that can be unpacked because I
want to see what's inside before installing and
may not trust the installer to be clean.)

Lionel Muller wrote on 7/12/2017 5:23 AM:
What do people use nowadays to put errant programs where they belong?

I maintain an efficient and organized Windows system where every installer
goes where I want it to go (if I can make it do so).

I like DeVeDe so I just installed it, but the downloaded Windows
devede-setup-3.17.0-build2.msi doesn't even *ask* where to go. It just
dumbly installs into Program Files (which I never use).

The shortcut in the programs menu (which I also never use) points to:
"C:\Program Files (x86)\MajorSilence\DeVeDe\devede.exe" -imgburn

For me, that's a dumb place to put a program!
It's not organized the way I organize all my other programs.

Without telling me I can use a different dvd authoring program (which I
already know), I ask the windows experts here what's the best way to "move"
DeVeDe to where I want it to go?

I got the MSI from https://devede.org/download/windows

In the olden days (circa Windows 95), I used COA (change of address) but
that's long gone, I think.
What do people use nowadays to put errant programs back where they belong?

Some software is written so poorly that even if you get it to install to
a different location, it won't work properly if it expects that it was
installed to a specific location.

You can see if the MSI has additional properties to set using a utility
like InstEd http://www.instedit.com/ and then run msiexec.exe manually
with the given properties.

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Wed, 12 Jul 2017 12:23:40 +0000 (UTC),
Lionel Muller wrote:

What do people use nowadays to put errant programs where they belong?

I maintain an efficient and organized Windows system where every installer
goes where I want it to go (if I can make it do so).

I like DeVeDe so I just installed it, but the downloaded Windows
devede-setup-3.17.0-build2.msi doesn't even *ask* where to go. It just
dumbly installs into Program Files (which I never use).

I'm surprised you never use it. I find that about 1/5 to 1/4 of the
programs I install insist on going there. Esp. iirc ms programs.

The shortcut in the programs menu (which I also never use) points to:
"C:\Program Files (x86)\MajorSilence\DeVeDe\devede.exe" -imgburn

And I'm sure if I put in those 16?-bit programs a similar percentage
would insist on going there.

For me, that's a dumb place to put a program!
It's not organized the way I organize all my other programs.

You just found out that MS doesn't think the way you do?

Without telling me I can use a different dvd authoring program (which I
already know), I ask the windows experts here what's the best way to "move"
DeVeDe to where I want it to go?

I got the MSI from https://devede.org/download/windows

In the olden days (circa Windows 95), I used COA (change of address) but
that's long gone, I think.

I think you mean COA2, and I looked for it for a long time and couldn't
find it. IIRC I found one link in the wayback machine but it didn't
work.

What do people use nowadays to put errant programs back where they belong?

I think instead of looking for an installer modifier, you'll have to
look for a program mover, so that it gets installed where it wants to
and you move it.

You could take a lesson from COA2 which, to my surprise, only looked in
3 places when it moved a program.

One of course was the program directory and subdirectory.

Another was shortcuts, and it might be possible to automate looking in
shortcuts, and even maybe changing them. OTOH, maybe automation isn't
needed since I at least have at most 3 shortcuts fro a given program.
One on the desktop, one in the quicklaunch bar (which I recreated) and
one that is pinned to the task bar. I know where the first two are, but
not the third. OTOH, if you just installed the program, you wouldn't
have an entry in the QL Bar or pinned to the taskbar. You'd only have
one short cut.

And the third, I always have trouble remembering. It must have been the
.... and now that I've remembered where it should go, I forget the name
of that place. The Registry!!!! When I was a child growing up in
Madagascar, my father told me never to ask about the registry and
certainly never to ask about it, or I'd go sterile and blind. Bad
mojo, he said (He had read a lot.) I don't believe in mojo.... I asked
here within the last two years, using this very same author and email
address, probably the last year, for a program that would find every
instance of chosen text in the registry, and I was rewarded with two or
three of them. IIRC, I first tried the one from Nirsoft and it worked
fine. So I didn't try the others snce I didn't have any particular use
for it then, or maybe my recollection woudl be stronger, but I can
search or you can search for the thread, or you can ask again.

Once you have every instance of a registry entry that includes
C:\Program Files (x86)\MajorSilence for example you can change them
all and you'll be done.

Right?

Lionel Muller wrote:

I maintain an efficient and organized Windows system where every installer
goes where I want it to go

Have you ever considered that you worry too much ?

*******

"Portable" programs allow easy user management of location.
Find a portable version of what you want to use, or
find a site that "converts" applications to portable
format.

https://portableapps.com/apps/internet/firefox_portable

*******

Using the "set" command in Command Prompt, dumps environment variables.

Maybe back in the day, moving all the programs involved %ProgramFiles% ?
I think I did this on Win2K, but don't remember the details.
(It was an experiment.) I think my programs ended up on D:
while the rest of the OS was on C: .

The best time to change that, would be right after installation,
rather than later. The registry really shouldn't be using
absolute paths for everything, as that would make
moving things a lot harder (if you expected them to work).

https://serverfault.com/questions/41...-64bit-windows

*******

One thing I should warn you about, is the Windows installer is
pretty brittle. And will not tolerate all possible user-applied
customizations. So when November 2017 arrives, and the next OS
version is ready for installation, the migration logic may freak out
or not work right, if you used junction points or edited something
they didn't expect you to edit. You could back up the OS,
make your presumptive changes to the setup, try a "repair install"
over top, then see if the programs are preserved properly. If
everything is broken, then restore from backup to clean up
after your experiment.

*******

ProgramFiles is owned by TrustedInstaller. If you're actually
going to mess about, you're going to need to solve the problem
of ownership on that area. Which can be done, but isn't all
that convenient. Ownership by TrustedInstaller, is there because
that's the subsystem that owns those folders for maintenance
purposes. It's supposed to prevent a program that might
be running as administrator at the time, from accidentally
changing something (malware plants DLL). Administrator implies
the Impersonation privilege, so it's really only one hop from
Administrator to TrustedInstaller token. But it still requires
a step to do it.

Your user account has a home directory. TrustedInstaller doesn't
have a home directory. It's not an account you can log into.
And that's why it's referred to more as a token, than anything
else. They made this hard on purpose (more security theater).

*******

I can't give you an exact recipe for all this stuff,
and my comment would be to just leave well enough alone.

It would be fine if Microsoft provided an easy way to
make this change, and we could be *guaranteed* that the
Windows OS Upgrade process would not muck things up. As
it stands right now, you can't even safely move your
home directory to D: , without there being trouble.

Paul

For alt.comp.os.windows-10 micky wrote:

I'm surprised you never use it. I find that about 1/5 to 1/4 of the
programs I install insist on going there. Esp. iirc ms programs.

I think you're about right.

The number of badly written programs, nowadays, is only something like 1
out of 10 or 1 out of 20 which won't let you put the program where YOU want
it to go.

DeVeDe just happens to be badly written, that's all.

It's the classic instant mark of unprofessional software if it won't allow
you to put it where you want it to be.

You just found out that MS doesn't think the way you do?

I didn't "just find out" and it's not Microsoft that thinks differently.

It's so sad but very few people understand how to keep an organized system,
but this isn't Microsoft's problem.

I have no problem with Microsoft defining a default for people who are too
stupid to make their own decisions.

It's DeVeDe which is at fault (not Microsoft), for not giving me the choice
of where to install it.

I think you mean COA2, and I looked for it for a long time and couldn't
find it. IIRC I found one link in the wayback machine but it didn't
work.

I think you're right. I think it was Mark Russinovich who wrote it, but I
don't remember. Change of Address first came out, I think, in Windows 95
and I think the "2" may have been for Windows 2K but I don't really
remember other than I used it a LOT in those days to put things where I
felt they belonged.

I keep an orderly system, so I know more about this than probably anyone
you have ever met in your life.

I think instead of looking for an installer modifier, you'll have to
look for a program mover, so that it gets installed where it wants to
and you move it.

I tried the SteamMover, and it came up with this plan, which I will attempt
and write up so that others benefit.

xcopy /E /V /I /F /Y "C:\Program Files (x86)\MajorSilence\DeVeDe" "C:\pgms\video\author\devede"
cmd /C rd /S /Q "C:\Program Files (x86)\MajorSilence\DeVeDe"
cmd /C mklink /J "C:\Program Files (x86)\MajorSilence\DeVeDe" "C:\pgms\video\author\devede"

In addition, there are shortcuts and the registry but the killer will be if
there are hard-coded paths written into the DeVeDe code base.

You could take a lesson from COA2 which, to my surprise, only looked in
3 places when it moved a program.

The problem is often the Windows registry.

Another was shortcuts, and it might be possible to automate looking in
shortcuts, and even maybe changing them. OTOH, maybe automation isn't
needed since I at least have at most 3 shortcuts fro a given program.
One on the desktop, one in the quicklaunch bar (which I recreated) and
one that is pinned to the task bar.

I also only keep a minimum number of shortcuts because I maintain a clean
cascaded start menu hierarchy. Usually only 1 shortcut for all the programs
I install, and maybe a second one pinned to the taskbar for super
frequently used programs like web browsers and mail user agents.

Once you have every instance of a registry entry that includes
C:\Program Files (x86)\MajorSilence for example you can change them
all and you'll be done.

Been there, done that on editing the registry.
In Win95 days, I would spit out the entire registry to a text file, edit
it, and load it back in. But no longer do I do that because the pitfalls
are too many.

The real problem is social stupidity.

Since there are so many people who don't know how to organize their
computers, the people who write DeVeDe feel justified in assuming everyone
wants their "DeVeDe" program to go in an idiotically named directory called
"Major Geeks".

The logic is crazy.
But that's the inescapable fact.

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Wed, 12 Jul 2017 13:31:05 -0400, Paul
wrote:

Lionel Muller wrote:

I maintain an efficient and organized Windows system where every installer
goes where I want it to go

Also, always do a customized install, even if you dont' want to
customize anything else other than the location.

Have you ever considered that you worry too much ?

I tend to agree, but otoh, it's not for me to say (even though I just
did.)

*******

"Portable" programs allow easy user management of location.
Find a portable version of what you want to use, or
find a site that "converts" applications to portable
format.

https://portableapps.com/apps/internet/firefox_portable

*******

Using the "set" command in Command Prompt, dumps environment variables.

Maybe back in the day, moving all the programs involved %ProgramFiles% ?

That's probably it, (but I'm not staking my reputation on it.)

But you raise a great point. Doesn't the installer use that, or some
other environmental variable to decide where to install it, when it
doesn't allow the user to choose.

So all the OP has to do is (start to install, and when it's clear that
he won't get to choose the installation location, cancel the install
and) use a bat file to set %programfiles% (or the appropriate variable)
to what he wants to use. After installation is complete he can set it
back. (Earlier he should display and print a list of all env. variables
that start with p. He should note how many are "X:\program files".
(Only one? )

He might want to skip the part in the first set of parentheses.

It's a shame because I liked my earlier method better.

I think I did this on Win2K, but don't remember the details.
(It was an experiment.) I think my programs ended up on D:
while the rest of the OS was on C: .

The best time to change that, would be right after installation,
rather than later. The registry really shouldn't be using
absolute paths for everything, as that would make
moving things a lot harder (if you expected them to work).

https://serverfault.com/questions/41...-64bit-windows

*******

One thing I should warn you about, is the Windows installer is
pretty brittle. And will not tolerate all possible user-applied
customizations.

I would thing not. Changing that sounded difficult for all but the most
proficient.

So when November 2017 arrives, and the next OS
version is ready for installation, the migration logic may freak out
or not work right, if you used junction points or edited something
they didn't expect you to edit. You could back up the OS,
make your presumptive changes to the setup, try a "repair install"
over top, then see if the programs are preserved properly. If
everything is broken, then restore from backup to clean up
after your experiment.

*******

ProgramFiles is owned by TrustedInstaller. If you're actually
going to mess about, you're going to need to solve the problem
of ownership on that area. Which can be done, but isn't all
that convenient. Ownership by TrustedInstaller, is there because
that's the subsystem that owns those folders for maintenance
purposes. It's supposed to prevent a program that might
be running as administrator at the time, from accidentally
changing something (malware plants DLL). Administrator implies
the Impersonation privilege, so it's really only one hop from
Administrator to TrustedInstaller token. But it still requires
a step to do it.

Your user account has a home directory. TrustedInstaller doesn't
have a home directory. It's not an account you can log into.
And that's why it's referred to more as a token, than anything
else. They made this hard on purpose (more security theater).

*******

I can't give you an exact recipe for all this stuff,
and my comment would be to just leave well enough alone.

That's not a bad idea.


It would be fine if Microsoft provided an easy way to
make this change, and we could be *guaranteed* that the
Windows OS Upgrade process would not muck things up. As
it stands right now, you can't even safely move your
home directory to D: , without there being trouble.

I didn't know that.

Paul

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Wed, 12 Jul 2017 17:40:19 +0000 (UTC),
Lionel Muller wrote:


I think you mean COA2, and I looked for it for a long time and couldn't
find it. IIRC I found one link in the wayback machine but it didn't
work.

I think you're right. I think it was Mark Russinovich who wrote it, but I
don't remember. Change of Address first came out, I think, in Windows 95
and I think the "2" may have been for Windows 2K but I don't really
remember other than I used it a LOT in those days to put things where I
felt they belonged.

COA2 and I'm sure COA were freebies from a PC magazine which also had a
webpage. the most durable of the PC magazines but I forget its name
now.


I keep an orderly system, so I know more about this than probably anyone
you have ever met in your life.

I think instead of looking for an installer modifier, you'll have to
look for a program mover, so that it gets installed where it wants to
and you move it.

I tried the SteamMover, and it came up with this plan, which I will attempt
and write up so that others benefit.

xcopy /E /V /I /F /Y "C:\Program Files (x86)\MajorSilence\DeVeDe" "C:\pgms\video\author\devede"
cmd /C rd /S /Q "C:\Program Files (x86)\MajorSilence\DeVeDe"
cmd /C mklink /J "C:\Program Files (x86)\MajorSilence\DeVeDe" "C:\pgms\video\author\devede"

I'm not acqquainted with mklink.

In addition, there are shortcuts and the registry but the killer will be if
there are hard-coded paths written into the DeVeDe code base.

I can't believe anyone woudl do that.

You could take a lesson from COA2 which, to my surprise, only looked in
3 places when it moved a program.

The problem is often the Windows registry.

Another was shortcuts, and it might be possible to automate looking in
shortcuts, and even maybe changing them. OTOH, maybe automation isn't
needed since I at least have at most 3 shortcuts fro a given program.
One on the desktop, one in the quicklaunch bar (which I recreated) and
one that is pinned to the task bar.

Maybe I meant at most 4.

I also only keep a minimum number of shortcuts because I maintain a clean
cascaded start menu hierarchy. Usually only 1 shortcut for all the programs
I install, and maybe a second one pinned to the taskbar for super
frequently used programs like web browsers and mail user agents.

Once you have every instance of a registry entry that includes
C:\Program Files (x86)\MajorSilence for example you can change them
all and you'll be done.

Been there, done that on editing the registry.
In Win95 days, I would spit out the entire registry to a text file, edit
it, and load it back in. But no longer do I do that because the pitfalls
are too many.

What are some of the pitfalls?

Was't the registry created mostly to keep people from installing many
coppies of windows from one CD?

The real problem is social stupidity.

Since there are so many people who don't know how to organize their
computers, the people who write DeVeDe feel justified in assuming everyone
wants their "DeVeDe" program to go in an idiotically named directory called
"Major Geeks".

The logic is crazy.
But that's the inescapable fact.

On Wed, 12 Jul 2017 17:40:19 +0000 (UTC), Lionel Muller
wrote:

I keep an orderly system, so I know more about this than probably anyone
you have ever met in your life.

:-)

As long as you leave room for the possibility that there are other
organizational methods that are different from yours while still
accomplishing what the owner wants.

For alt.comp.os.windows-10 Char Jackson wrote:


I keep an orderly system, so I know more about this than probably anyone
you have ever met in your life.

:-)

As long as you leave room for the possibility that there are other
organizational methods that are different from yours while still
accomplishing what the owner wants.

My organizational system is so simple that it leaves room for anything
anyone wants.

I maintain a menu hierarchy of my own choosing, just like you likely
organize your kitchen drawers in an organization of your choosing.

I maintain an "installer" repository of the same organization, which makes
re-installing software into a new machine trivially easy.

I maintain and "installed" hierarchy of the same organization, simply
because it makes finding anything (which isn't often needed) trivially
easy.

My data hierarchy is similarly organized.
A place for everything and everything in its place.

Since I don't ever touch the "Programs" menu, nor do I ever touch the
"User" folder, nor do I ever touch the "Program Files" folders, there is
zero impact on the existing folders.

Therefore, by design, my well-thought-out organizational system "leaves
room" for other organizational methods just as much as on anyone's system.

For alt.comp.os.windows-10 Lionel Muller wrote:


What do people use nowadays to put errant programs where they belong?

This failed, but I documented the failures because from the failure, we
will generate success to come up with a process that everyone can use.
================================================== ==========================
Tutorial for changing program files location in Windows 8 and Windows 10:
THIS FAILED (but can be fixed)
================================================== ==========================
1. If desired, download, install & run CCleaner to clean the system:
http://www.piriform.com/ccleaner
Installed into: C:\programs\cleaners\ccleaner\
With a concurrent mirrored menu of:
Start Programs cleaner ccleaner(.lnk)
2. If desired, note %ProgramFilesDir% & %ProgramFilesDir (x86)% variables:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\Curr entVersion\
ProgramFilesDir = C:\Program Files
ProgramFilesDir (x86) = C:\Program Files (x86)
3. Install the errant program which doesn't have a location option.
In my case, it was DeVeDe from https://devede.org/download/windows
Desired install location: C:\programs\dvd\author\devede\
With a concurrent desired menu of:
Start Programs dvd author devede(.lnk)
4. Note resultant "Programs" menu shortuct "Target" & "Start in" dir:
"C:\Program Files (x86)\MajorSilence\DeVeDe\devede.exe" -imgburn
"C:\Program Files (x86)\MajorSilence\DeVeDe\"
5. Download & run the SteamMover.exe executable from
http://www.traynier.com/software/steammover
Note I copied the executable into:
C:\programs\cleaners\steammover\SteamMover.exe
And created a shortcut in a mirror cascaded menu of:
Start Programs cleaner steammover(.lnk)
6. In SteamMover, set up your desired options:
a. Select [x]I want to run the commands myself
b. Select Steam Apps Common Folder = C:\Program Files (x86)\MajorSilence\
c. Select Alternative Folder: C:\programs\dvd\author\devede
d. Press the bottom blue arrow button to proceed
7. Copy the ensuing commands into the Windows clipboard:
xcopy /E /V /I /F /Y "C:\Program Files (x86)\MajorSilence\DeVeDe" "C:\programs\dvd\author\devede"
cmd /C rd /S /Q "C:\Program Files (x86)\MajorSilence\DeVeDe"
cmd /C mklink /J "C:\Program Files (x86)\MajorSilence\DeVeDe" "C:\programs\dvd\author\devede"
8. Modify the commands above as needed, and run them individually.
9. When done, change shortcut target from/to:
FROM: "C:\Program Files (x86)\MajorSilence\DeVeDe\devede.exe" -imgburn
TO: "C:\programs\dvd\author\devede\devede.exe" -imgburn
And change the "Start in" location from/to:
FROM: "C:\Program Files (x86)\MajorSilence\DeVeDe\"
TO: "C:\programs\dvd\author\devede\"
10. Use Ccleaner to remove the old installation in Program Files
NOTE: This may have been a mistake.
11. Use Ccleaner to clean up leftover garbage:
a. Clean up leftover registry keys
b. Clean up leftover temp files
12. Run DeVeDe using your newly created Start Menu shortcut.
Error: Drat.
DeVeDe reports "Can't find the font for subtitles. Aborting."
================================================== =========================

For alt.comp.os.windows-10 Mayayana wrote:


Another *possible* option would be to unpack
the MSI and use it that way, as a kind of portable
version. Many programs will run just fine that way,
but some won't

Thanks for that suggestion since this is a common need so it behooves us to
find a good solution for "moving" an errant installation.

When I unpacked the downloaded MSI downloaded for installing DeVeDe
https://devede.org/download/windows

The result was a billion extensionless numbered files.

Looking at each one, I could see some were XML, others binary, others text,
but, there was nothing to "execute".

Good idea though.
But not for DeVeDe.