CNN: MS Paint could get erased after 32 years

On Tue, 25 Jul 2017 18:00:29 -0400, Keith Nuttle
wrote:

On 7/25/2017 5:31 PM, Elvira wrote:
On 24-Jul-2017 15:16, Char Jackson wrote:

Microsoft Paint could get erased after 32 years
http://money.cnn.com/2017/07/24/technology/microsoft-kills-paint/index.html


Say goodbye to Microsoft Paint?

The iconic Paint application has landed on Microsoft's (MSFT, Tech30)
list of "deprecated" features for future software releases.

Although the tech giant said the feature is "not in active development"
and could be soon removed, it's unclear whether Paint will be officially
absent from its Windows 10 Fall Creators Update, expected this fall.
[...]
Other features that could be removed with the Windows 10 update include
Outlook Express, the Microsoft Reader app and Reading List, a
bookmarking service. (Microsoft says the latter two will be integrated
with its Microsoft Edge browser).
[...]
Paint was released in 1985 with the first version of Windows 1.0. The
program has been featured on every software update to date.
[...]
As of last year, Paint still had more than 100 million monthly users,
according to Microsoft.

****

How would they know that? Oh yeah, via telemetry, of course. Most of us
implicitly agreed to it, making it their computer as much as it is
yours.

Wait, Outlook Express will be gone? I thought it already was. :-)

Not going away.

https://www.thurrott.com/windows/128...y-already-knew

I have been a computer user for nearly two decades. I first became
aware of Paint when I had to buy a computer with Window 98. I played
with it a bit, but could not find a use for it.

It was supposedly updated to a 3d version, but I don't know the last
time I used paint, It has to be over 8 or 10 years ago.

Now, if I found that Irfanview was going a way I don't know what I would
replace it with. I use it for creating drawings, manipulating and
adding text to images, for its OCR capabilities, and to create PDF
documents.

To me, Irfanview is like 7zip. Interesting enough to get installed every
4-5 years, but within about a half hour it's gone again, uninstalled
until next time.

In article ,
lid, Char Jackson says...

On Tue, 25 Jul 2017 20:04:50 +0100, mechanic
wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 06:50:15 +1200, Ralph Fox wrote:

On Tue, 25 Jul 2017 12:04:11 +0100, mechanic wrote:

Newsgroups: alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10

This is a Win7 group - not known for keeping their s/w up to date!

I am reading this in the Win10 newsgroup.

You also cross-posted to the Win10 newsgroup.

Yes I only noticed the cross post after I sent. Not sure why this
was posted to the Win7 group, it only really applies to future
editions?

Because, arguably, it's of potential interest to all Windows users,
including those who already use Win 10 and those who might someday find
themselves using Win 10. Paint is one of those programs that, while
quite limited in functionality compared to some 3rd party offerings,
could always be counted on to be there. That's apparently changing.

.... for Windows 10 users only.

--
Duncan.

On 25 Jul 2017, Char Jackson wrote in
alt.comp.os.windows-10:

To me, Irfanview is like 7zip. Interesting enough to get installed
every 4-5 years, but within about a half hour it's gone again,
uninstalled until next time.

Interesting. Both of those are among my most-used tools. I use both of
them almost every day, especially Irfanview. What's your problem with
them?

On Tue, 25 Jul 2017 04:48:28 -0400, Paul wrote:

We will always have Windows 7 nostalgic sigh.

Next, they'll get rid of File Explorer, and you'll be
doing this in Powershell (because Command Prompt is gone too)...

copy A:\lemon.txt B:\lime.txt

Why A: and B: you ask ? Well, they'll remove SATA
support and hard drives, such that Win10 November Update
will only work with floppy diskettes.

You know they can do it... I've heard mutterings
about "software as a form of suffering". And
"well, your OS was free, right ?".

Uh... I think you should take a vacation.

On Tue, 25 Jul 2017 20:39:12 -0400, Nil
wrote:

On 25 Jul 2017, Char Jackson wrote in
alt.comp.os.windows-10:

To me, Irfanview is like 7zip. Interesting enough to get installed
every 4-5 years, but within about a half hour it's gone again,
uninstalled until next time.

Interesting. Both of those are among my most-used tools. I use both of
them almost every day, especially Irfanview. What's your problem with
them?

Not really a problem, it's just that I have tools available that work
better for me. I use WinRar instead of 7-Zip and I use the built-in
Photo Viewer for viewing photos.

In message , Char Jackson
writes:
On Tue, 25 Jul 2017 20:39:12 -0400, Nil
wrote:

On 25 Jul 2017, Char Jackson wrote in
alt.comp.os.windows-10:

To me, Irfanview is like 7zip. Interesting enough to get installed
every 4-5 years, but within about a half hour it's gone again,
uninstalled until next time.

Interesting. Both of those are among my most-used tools. I use both of
them almost every day, especially Irfanview. What's your problem with
them?

Not really a problem, it's just that I have tools available that work
better for me. I use WinRar instead of 7-Zip and I use the built-in
Photo Viewer for viewing photos.

(Interestingly, I'm having to use paint at work. The version in 7 isn't
bad, though I'd far rather have IrfanView.)

Viewing, though I think originally its main purpose, is only one of the
things IV can do these days; I use it for _all_ my image manipulation
needs. (I used to use Paint Shop Pro for some of them, until IV got its
own "clone brush".) But even for viewing, I find IV far better than
Photo Viewer - probably because of the keyboard shortcuts: +, -, enter,
F, space, and backspace, for starters.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Squawk Pieces of eight!
Squawk Pieces of eight!
Squawk Pieces of nine!
SYSTEM HALTED: parroty error!

On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 00:56:45 -0500, Char Jackson
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Jul 2017 20:39:12 -0400, Nil
wrote:

On 25 Jul 2017, Char Jackson wrote in
alt.comp.os.windows-10:

To me, Irfanview is like 7zip. Interesting enough to get installed
every 4-5 years, but within about a half hour it's gone again,
uninstalled until next time.

Interesting. Both of those are among my most-used tools. I use both of
them almost every day, especially Irfanview. What's your problem with
them?

Not really a problem, it's just that I have tools available that work
better for me. I use WinRar instead of 7-Zip and I use the built-in
Photo Viewer for viewing photos.


A question for you: other than its ability to handle RAR files (which
I almost never need to do), what do you see as the advantage of WinRAR
over what's built into Windows?

On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 08:14:20 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , Char Jackson
writes:
On Tue, 25 Jul 2017 20:39:12 -0400, Nil
wrote:

On 25 Jul 2017, Char Jackson wrote in
alt.comp.os.windows-10:

To me, Irfanview is like 7zip. Interesting enough to get installed
every 4-5 years, but within about a half hour it's gone again,
uninstalled until next time.

Interesting. Both of those are among my most-used tools. I use both of
them almost every day, especially Irfanview. What's your problem with
them?

Not really a problem, it's just that I have tools available that work
better for me. I use WinRar instead of 7-Zip and I use the built-in
Photo Viewer for viewing photos.

(Interestingly, I'm having to use paint at work. The version in 7 isn't
bad, though I'd far rather have IrfanView.)

Viewing, though I think originally its main purpose, is only one of the
things IV can do these days; I use it for _all_ my image manipulation
needs. (I used to use Paint Shop Pro for some of them, until IV got its
own "clone brush".) But even for viewing, I find IV far better than
Photo Viewer - probably because of the keyboard shortcuts: +, -, enter,
F, space, and backspace, for starters.

The two biggest reasons why I use Photo Viewer instead of IV are that
Photo Viewer is just a viewer (with only two additional capabilities:
rotate and delete), while IV has a ton of stuff that I don't need, and
the second reason is that Photo Viewer's keyboard shortcuts are
intuitive to me - the cursor keys! - while IV seems to use randomly
selected shortcuts to move forward and backward through a series of
photos.

So it sounds like the things that you and others like about IV are the
things that keep me from using it.

In message , Char Jackson
writes:
On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 08:14:20 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , Char Jackson
writes:
[]
Photo Viewer for viewing photos.

(Interestingly, I'm having to use paint at work. The version in 7 isn't
bad, though I'd far rather have IrfanView.)

Viewing, though I think originally its main purpose, is only one of the
things IV can do these days; I use it for _all_ my image manipulation
needs. (I used to use Paint Shop Pro for some of them, until IV got its
own "clone brush".) But even for viewing, I find IV far better than
Photo Viewer - probably because of the keyboard shortcuts: +, -, enter,
F, space, and backspace, for starters.

The two biggest reasons why I use Photo Viewer instead of IV are that
Photo Viewer is just a viewer (with only two additional capabilities:
rotate and delete), while IV has a ton of stuff that I don't need, and

(Can PV save the rotated?)

the second reason is that Photo Viewer's keyboard shortcuts are
intuitive to me - the cursor keys! - while IV seems to use randomly
selected shortcuts to move forward and backward through a series of
photos.

So it sounds like the things that you and others like about IV are the
things that keep me from using it.

It's a matter of which ones you've memorised! Just the viewing ones, I
don't think IV's are particularly random: space and backspace I find
very easy for moving forward and back, + and - to zoom, f to toggle
fit-to-window, enter to toggle full screen. I know PV uses left and
right arrow to move between pictures. (IV uses those to pan around
within a picture that doesn't all fit on screen.) R and L for rotate
right and left. I grant that some of IV's _editing_ shortcuts aren't
obvious (G [not g!] for brightness/contrast/colour changing for
example), but then that probably applies to most editing software, as
there are so many things you might want to do. (And you don't _have_ to
use the keyboard shortcuts - you _can_ use the menus with the mouse; at
least there _are_ keyboard 'cuts for those that want them - I'm pretty
sure I have used software where mouse was the _only_ way. I personally
find keyboard shortcuts far quicker, once you've memorized a few, in
most softwa Word, in particular. YMMV.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

For this star a "night on the tiles" means winning at Scrabble - Kathy Lette
(on Kylie), RT 2014/1/11-17

On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 19:56:52 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , Char Jackson
writes:

The two biggest reasons why I use Photo Viewer instead of IV are that
Photo Viewer is just a viewer (with only two additional capabilities:
rotate and delete), while IV has a ton of stuff that I don't need, and

(Can PV save the rotated?)

Of course.

the second reason is that Photo Viewer's keyboard shortcuts are
intuitive to me - the cursor keys! - while IV seems to use randomly
selected shortcuts to move forward and backward through a series of
photos.

So it sounds like the things that you and others like about IV are the
things that keep me from using it.

It's a matter of which ones you've memorised! Just the viewing ones, I
don't think IV's are particularly random: space and backspace I find
very easy for moving forward and back
snip

Thanks for the reminder about space and backspace. Those sound great in
theory, but in practice they are way too far apart to be convenient,
IMO. I suppose it's something you get used to, but I never bothered
since PV is always there and works better. IMHO, of course.

On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 08:13:23 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 00:56:45 -0500, Char Jackson
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Jul 2017 20:39:12 -0400, Nil
wrote:

On 25 Jul 2017, Char Jackson wrote in
alt.comp.os.windows-10:

To me, Irfanview is like 7zip. Interesting enough to get installed
every 4-5 years, but within about a half hour it's gone again,
uninstalled until next time.

Interesting. Both of those are among my most-used tools. I use both of
them almost every day, especially Irfanview. What's your problem with
them?

Not really a problem, it's just that I have tools available that work
better for me. I use WinRar instead of 7-Zip and I use the built-in
Photo Viewer for viewing photos.


A question for you: other than its ability to handle RAR files (which
I almost never need to do), what do you see as the advantage of WinRAR
over what's built into Windows?

My only contact with what was built into Windows was back in the XP days
when I would unregister the system dll that handled zip files to neuter
that functionality, so I may not be qualified to make the comparison
that you're asking for. Let me go try it in Win 7.

OK, creating a new zip archive with one or more files seems to be
straightforward, assuming you don't need password protection or
self-extracting or a format other than zip or any of a dozen other
options, but it's not immediately obvious to me how to add or remove
files from that archive, or indeed how to extract one or more files and
add it back to the archive after editing it. I'm sure I could figure it
all out, but it already seems so clumsy in comparison to a tool that's
designed to work with archives.

I work with archives on a daily basis, whether they be zip, rar, tar,
gzip, etc. Creating and updating archives is drop dead simple with
WinRar and its right-click context menus and drag-drop capabilities, but
the real beauty is when you have a bunch of archives that need to be
'unzipped'. WinRar's context menus give me one-click methods to extract
a bunch of archives into individual directories that are named after the
respective archive, or extracting all selected archives into a folder
named after the first selected archive, or allowing me to enter a path,
to name a few of the more common options.

I'd say the built in zip functionality is extremely limited, to be very
nice about it, so it wouldn't work for me, but if your needs fall within
what it provides, then by all means use it. No need to look further
unless you need to.

On Thu, 27 Jul 2017 00:11:43 -0500, Char Jackson
wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 08:13:23 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 00:56:45 -0500, Char Jackson
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Jul 2017 20:39:12 -0400, Nil
wrote:

On 25 Jul 2017, Char Jackson wrote in
alt.comp.os.windows-10:

To me, Irfanview is like 7zip. Interesting enough to get installed
every 4-5 years, but within about a half hour it's gone again,
uninstalled until next time.

Interesting. Both of those are among my most-used tools. I use both of
them almost every day, especially Irfanview. What's your problem with
them?

Not really a problem, it's just that I have tools available that work
better for me. I use WinRar instead of 7-Zip and I use the built-in
Photo Viewer for viewing photos.


A question for you: other than its ability to handle RAR files (which
I almost never need to do), what do you see as the advantage of WinRAR
over what's built into Windows?

My only contact with what was built into Windows was back in the XP days
when I would unregister the system dll that handled zip files to neuter
that functionality, so I may not be qualified to make the comparison
that you're asking for. Let me go try it in Win 7.

OK, creating a new zip archive with one or more files seems to be
straightforward, assuming you don't need password protection or
self-extracting or a format other than zip or any of a dozen other
options, but it's not immediately obvious to me how to add or remove
files from that archive, or indeed how to extract one or more files and
add it back to the archive after editing it. I'm sure I could figure it
all out, but it already seems so clumsy in comparison to a tool that's
designed to work with archives.

I work with archives on a daily basis, whether they be zip, rar, tar,
gzip, etc. Creating and updating archives is drop dead simple with
WinRar and its right-click context menus and drag-drop capabilities, but
the real beauty is when you have a bunch of archives that need to be
'unzipped'. WinRar's context menus give me one-click methods to extract
a bunch of archives into individual directories that are named after the
respective archive, or extracting all selected archives into a folder
named after the first selected archive, or allowing me to enter a path,
to name a few of the more common options.

I'd say the built in zip functionality is extremely limited, to be very
nice about it, so it wouldn't work for me, but if your needs fall within
what it provides, then by all means use it. No need to look further
unless you need to.


That last sentence is my exactly my view too. Yes, my needs fall
within what it provides; all I do is occasionally download a zip file
and need to unzip it.