How to debug flaky Android-to-Windows FTP connection in Windows File Explorer?

How can we debug a flaky Android-to-Windows FTP connection in Windows 10
File Explorer?

There's nothing wrong with the local LAN.
There's nothing wrong with Android.
There's nothing wrong with WinSCP.
It's only Windows 10 File Explorer that is flaky.

How can I debug why?

BACKGROUND:
One of the easiest way to connect the Android file system to Windows from a
anywhere inside or outside of the house (i.e., without cables) and without
installing anything on Windows is to run an FTP server on Android.

With the FTP server running on Android, on Windows 10, you just use the
Windows File Explorer to connect to the entire Android file system as if
Android was mounted as a hard disk drive.
https://s3.postimg.org/oeccyw1ab/screenshot3.gif

But often, Windows 10 won't anonymously connect to Android via the File
Explorer ftp URL on the first or second or even third try:
ftp://192.168.1.16:3721 (where your LAN & port may vary)
https://s3.postimg.org/r22yrepib/screenshot1.gif

Eventually, Windows 10 *will* connect, without changing anything other than
rebooting either the phone or the PC or both - but the question is why is
Windows 10 so flaky?

By way of contrast, installing WinSCP works *every* time, without the
Windows 10 File Explorer flakiness.
https://s12.postimg.org/i7sfa92f1/screenshot2.gif

So my current use model is the following, but I ask why Win10 is so flaky?
1. I start the ES File Explorer FTP server on Android & get the URL
ftp://192.168.1.16:3721
2. I click on that URL which is already set up in Win10 "This PC"
3. If that works, I'm good to go.
If that fails, I can go through reboots and get it to finally work.
But it's easier to just use WinSCP when Win10 is flaky.
4. I start up WinSCP and that works *every* single time.

Note that nothing changed between Windows 10 File Explorer failing and
WinSCP working (browsing with a browser would work also), and note that
after rebooting the phone (usually) and sometimes Windows (not as often
needed), Windows 10 *will* eventually mount the Android phone in the
Windows File Explorer.

All I ask here is help from networking experts on how to debug why Window
10 File Explorer often fails to mount the Android file system when changing
nothing whatsoever, WinSCP or a browser connected to the FTP URL works just
fine.

On 29/07/2017 23:49, Roy Tremblay wrote:
How can we debug a flaky Android-to-Windows FTP connection in Windows 10
File Explorer?

There's nothing wrong with the local LAN.
There's nothing wrong with Android.
There's nothing wrong with WinSCP.
It's only Windows 10 File Explorer that is flaky.

How can I debug why?

BACKGROUND:
One of the easiest way to connect the Android file system to Windows from a
anywhere inside or outside of the house (i.e., without cables) and without
installing anything on Windows is to run an FTP server on Android.

With the FTP server running on Android, on Windows 10, you just use the
Windows File Explorer to connect to the entire Android file system as if
Android was mounted as a hard disk drive.
https://s3.postimg.org/oeccyw1ab/screenshot3.gif

But often, Windows 10 won't anonymously connect to Android via the File
Explorer ftp URL on the first or second or even third try:
ftp://192.168.1.16:3721 (where your LAN & port may vary)
https://s3.postimg.org/r22yrepib/screenshot1.gif

Eventually, Windows 10 *will* connect, without changing anything other than
rebooting either the phone or the PC or both - but the question is why is
Windows 10 so flaky?

By way of contrast, installing WinSCP works *every* time, without the
Windows 10 File Explorer flakiness.
https://s12.postimg.org/i7sfa92f1/screenshot2.gif

So my current use model is the following, but I ask why Win10 is so flaky?
1. I start the ES File Explorer FTP server on Android & get the URL
ftp://192.168.1.16:3721
2. I click on that URL which is already set up in Win10 "This PC"
3. If that works, I'm good to go.
If that fails, I can go through reboots and get it to finally work.
But it's easier to just use WinSCP when Win10 is flaky.
4. I start up WinSCP and that works *every* single time.

Note that nothing changed between Windows 10 File Explorer failing and
WinSCP working (browsing with a browser would work also), and note that
after rebooting the phone (usually) and sometimes Windows (not as often
needed), Windows 10 *will* eventually mount the Android phone in the
Windows File Explorer.

All I ask here is help from networking experts on how to debug why Window
10 File Explorer often fails to mount the Android file system when changing
nothing whatsoever, WinSCP or a browser connected to the FTP URL works just
fine.


Sorry, I can't help with your problem, but just to say thanks for
WinSCP. I've been having problems transferring files from Win10 via a
cable, but WinSCP works fine and I no longer have to transfer files via
Dropbox. No help to you, but a great help to me!

Geoff

--
I would be unstoppable if I could get started.

Geoff Realname actually wrote:

Sorry, I can't help with your problem, but just to say thanks for
WinSCP. I've been having problems transferring files from Win10 via a
cable, but WinSCP works fine and I no longer have to transfer files via
Dropbox. No help to you, but a great help to me!

Bummer. I saw a response, where I knew my question was so hard that only
the best of the best of the best would be able to offer any assistance,
when I saw the first line above.

Nonetheless, I'm very happy that WinSCP has served your need.
https://winscp.net/eng/download.php
https://sourceforge.net/projects/winscp/

AFAIK, WinSCP is one of a canonical free file-transfer tool for Windows.

It's so easy to transfer files from Android to Windows just by having both
devices on the same local LAN that I forget that some people still use USB
cable to transfer the files.

Nothing wrong with cable (it's fast) but the beauty of having all the
Android devices in the household on the network is that I can transfer
files from any device in the house to the computer and vice versa, without
getting up out of my chair.

So, for example, I can download a movie or dig up some ebooks or obtain a
podcast on the desktop PC, and then push that file to any mobile device on
the LAN, or pull files from any mobile device on the LAN.

All you need on the mobile device is to run an FTP server, which, for
Android, most of us use ES File Explorer's FTP server:
ESFileExplorer: Hamburger Network Remote Manager Turn on

In ES File Explorer there's a way to make that sequence above a single
push-button desktop icon named "ESFTP".

ESFileExplorer: Remote Manager 3 dots Settings Create shortcut

And, as you all know, you can change the name of any icon on the desktop
anyway, so, you can just call it "FTP" or whatever you want to call it.

The default port will be 3721 and the default login is anonymous, with a
default directory I think of "sdcard" (at least for my phone it was), but
all that is settable (since I'm rooted, my default is / so that I can move
HOSTS files about and mess about a bit in the Android /etc/ directory).

On Windows, all you need to do is create a network share point of address:
ftp://192.168.1.10:3721 (where the exact address depends on your LAN)

And, that, in and of itself, allows the entire Android phone to be opened
in the native Windows File Explorer.

Sometimes...

But the sad fact is that Windows networking is supremely flaky for reasons
unknown to me. So when Windows networking is flaky, I just use WinSCP,
which works 100% of the time.

A similar FTP URL method works for iOS devices to some extent (but iOS is a
different beast altogether with respect to file system access on the iOS
device).

Roy Tremblay wrote:
How can we debug a flaky Android-to-Windows FTP connection in Windows 10
File Explorer?

There's nothing wrong with the local LAN.
There's nothing wrong with Android.
There's nothing wrong with WinSCP.
It's only Windows 10 File Explorer that is flaky.

How can I debug why?

BACKGROUND:
One of the easiest way to connect the Android file system to Windows from a
anywhere inside or outside of the house (i.e., without cables) and without
installing anything on Windows is to run an FTP server on Android.

With the FTP server running on Android, on Windows 10, you just use the
Windows File Explorer to connect to the entire Android file system as if
Android was mounted as a hard disk drive.
https://s3.postimg.org/oeccyw1ab/screenshot3.gif

But often, Windows 10 won't anonymously connect to Android via the File
Explorer ftp URL on the first or second or even third try:
ftp://192.168.1.16:3721 (where your LAN & port may vary)
https://s3.postimg.org/r22yrepib/screenshot1.gif

Eventually, Windows 10 *will* connect, without changing anything other than
rebooting either the phone or the PC or both - but the question is why is
Windows 10 so flaky?

By way of contrast, installing WinSCP works *every* time, without the
Windows 10 File Explorer flakiness.
https://s12.postimg.org/i7sfa92f1/screenshot2.gif

So my current use model is the following, but I ask why Win10 is so flaky?
1. I start the ES File Explorer FTP server on Android & get the URL
ftp://192.168.1.16:3721
2. I click on that URL which is already set up in Win10 "This PC"
3. If that works, I'm good to go.
If that fails, I can go through reboots and get it to finally work.
But it's easier to just use WinSCP when Win10 is flaky.
4. I start up WinSCP and that works *every* single time.

Note that nothing changed between Windows 10 File Explorer failing and
WinSCP working (browsing with a browser would work also), and note that
after rebooting the phone (usually) and sometimes Windows (not as often
needed), Windows 10 *will* eventually mount the Android phone in the
Windows File Explorer.

All I ask here is help from networking experts on how to debug why Window
10 File Explorer often fails to mount the Android file system when changing
nothing whatsoever, WinSCP or a browser connected to the FTP URL works just
fine.

You can use Wireshark to record the packets sent and received.

However, for that to work, requires a PCAP (packet capture) agent.
On Ethernet connections, this is easy, with the provided WinPCAP
installation that Wireshark bundles with it.

Other PCAP agents include airPCAP for wireless and there is some
sort of usbPCAP for usb connections. But those are not bundled
with Wireshark, may cost money etc. You have to track down a promiscuous
packet capture agent, depending on the kind of wire/media used for
the transfer.

*******

In the discussion here, they mention active and passive FTP connections,
and that a server may happen to be set up for passive only.

https://superuser.com/questions/8853...ndows-explorer



Obviously, some of those parameters are optional. If using the
standard port, you don't need a portnum. You don't need to
provide "path", and you can cd down to the correct path while
in the session. What's missing, is a way to pass a PASV flag.

*******

To debug an FTP session, you can use Command Prompt and
test FTP from there. There is an ftp client that runs
in Command Prompt.

ftp ftp.yoursite.com

Of particular note for such sessions, there is the "pasv"
command, which switches the connection to passive. So at
least the Command Prompt version does support both.

From my notes, this is a PASV session, on a server that only
supports passive connections. You'd remove the PASV command
for non-passive connections.

ftp ftp.microsoft.com
user anonymous
pass
PASV
CD /products/Oemtest/v1.1/WOSTest/Tools/Acpi
binary
get dumppo.exe

That server isn't always running, so don't expect that to work.
That is the sequence to get a 12KB program that can be used
to repair minor ACPI issues on older Windows. Dumppo no longer
works on Windows 10.

Because those sessions are "interactive", you get to see
error messages if a connection cannot be made, or if you
forgot some parameter or step. Based on the evidence you
see there, that may help with your Explorer planned session.

Paul

Paul wrote:
Roy Tremblay wrote:
[...]

You can use Wireshark to record the packets sent and received.

+1

Wireshark is not easy, but it's not terribly hard either, assuming one
has the needed networking expertise.

[...]

In the discussion here, they mention active and passive FTP connections,
and that a server may happen to be set up for passive only.

https://superuser.com/questions/8853...ndows-explorer

Passive/active is indeed worth exploring.

I have similar 'flakeyness' problems as 'Roy', but with FTPUSE on the
Windows side. If FTPUSE doesn't connect, another FTP client - in my case
FileZilla - has no problems. I.e. similar to 'Roy' with (Windows 10)
File Explorer versus WINSCP. IME. most 'real' FTP clients default to
passive mode, so if WINSCP does too and File Explorer does not, that may
be a difference to look at. (FWIW, if I don't 'touch'/change my setup,
there's no problem, so for the moment I'm not pursueing this
'flakeyness').

[Excellent suggestion to use 'DOS' FTP command.]

Frank Slootweg actually wrote:

I have similar 'flakeyness' problems as 'Roy', but with FTPUSE on the
Windows side. If FTPUSE doesn't connect, another FTP client - in my case
FileZilla - has no problems. I.e. similar to 'Roy' with (Windows 10)
File Explorer versus WINSCP. IME. most 'real' FTP clients default to
passive mode, so if WINSCP does too and File Explorer does not, that may
be a difference to look at. (FWIW, if I don't 'touch'/change my setup,
there's no problem, so for the moment I'm not pursueing this
'flakeyness').

Frank brings up an excellent suggestion which is for us to explore whether
"passive or active mode" might be involved in Windows File Explorer timing
out on FTP addresses.

Using the new search terms that Frank kindly brought up, I instantly found
this question on stackoverflow, which seems to be similar but there is the
inevitable confusion between Windows [Internet Explorer], and Windows [File
Explorer] where my question has nothing whatsoever to do with a web
browser:

This is the first seemingly apropos hit:
FTP works from CommandLine but not from Windows [File] Explorer
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/...ndows-explorer

The answer there appeared to be:
"If ftp.exe can connect, but Windows [File] Explorer can't,
then you have a Passive FTP server, and you need to un-check
the following:
Control Panel Internet Options Advanced Settings "Use Passive FTP"
then click Apply - now Windows [File] Explorer will be able to connect
to the FTP server.

However I'm not sure if this solution above applies to the Windows [File]
Explorer or to the Windows [Internet] Explorer web browser.

I've unchecked the box, but do you know if that applies to the file browser
or the web browser?

Roy Tremblay actually wrote:

However I'm not sure if this solution above applies to the Windows [File]
Explorer or to the Windows [Internet] Explorer web browser.

In a nutshell, the difference between passive and active FTP is from the
standpoint of the server where the difference seems to be whether the
server establishes the data channel (active) or whether the server lets the
client establish the data channel (passive).
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/...nd-passive-ftp

However, search results are extremely confusing as to whether the Windows
10 "Internet Options" applies "only" to Windows Internet Explorer or if
that Internet Options form also applies to Windows File Explorer.

So every hit is really a guess since not once have I seen a clearly written
question and answer which makes it clear that we're NOT discussion a web
browser at any point in time here.

Here's another hit which, again, confuses Windows [File] Explorer with the
Windows [Internet] Explorer, but which seems to define a similar problem
using the Windows File Explorer.
https://www.tenforums.com/network-sh...-mode-ftp.html
Windows 10: How to set passive mode for ftp?
"I have found the answer (after way too many hours searching). The easy
way is to search for "Internet Options" in the Win10 search, and that will
provide a link to the older style options. For some reason I can't find a
way to access this in the newer Win10 config menus. Then it's "Advanced"
and in there you'll find a "Passive FTP" check box. Problem
solved...finally."

Given that information above, it seems that this "Internet Options" form,
which also covers web browsing, also applies, apparently, to file browsing
using the Windows File Explorer.

Here's what my Control Panel Internet Options Advanced was prior:
[X]Enable FTP folder view (outside of Internet Explorer)
[X]Use Passive FTP (for firewall and DSL modem compatibility)

Here's what my Control Panel Internet Options Advanced is now:
[X]Enable FTP folder view (outside of Internet Explorer)
[_]Use Passive FTP (for firewall and DSL modem compatibility)

Time will tell if this works for the Windows File Explorer to make it more
stable.

Roy Tremblay actually wrote:

Given that information above, it seems that this "Internet Options" form,
which also covers web browsing, also applies, apparently, to file browsing
using the Windows File Explorer.

Here's what my Control Panel Internet Options Advanced was prior:
[X]Enable FTP folder view (outside of Internet Explorer)
[X]Use Passive FTP (for firewall and DSL modem compatibility)

Here's what my Control Panel Internet Options Advanced is now:
[X]Enable FTP folder view (outside of Internet Explorer)
[_]Use Passive FTP (for firewall and DSL modem compatibility)

Time will tell if this works for the Windows File Explorer to make it more
stable.

Unfortunately, changing the Windows 10 "Internet Options" Advanced setting
to switch from the Passive FTP default to Active FTP, didn't work.

At the very same time that I can't connect using the flaky Windows 10 File
Explorer, WinSCP has absolutely no problem connecting with the same
credentials just moments after Windows 10 flaky File Explorer failed.
https://s2.postimg.org/en8vgqit5/ftp_fails.jpg

At the moment, I can only conclude that either a critical setting in
Windows 10 File Explorer is amiss, or, Windows 10 File Explorer is not yet
ready for prime time with respect to basic FTP URLs.

On Tue, 1 Aug 2017 18:04:55 +0000 (UTC), Roy Tremblay
wrote:

However, search results are extremely confusing as to whether the Windows
10 "Internet Options" applies "only" to Windows Internet Explorer or if
that Internet Options form also applies to Windows File Explorer.


Why would you think Internet Options had anything to do with File
Explorer? If there's a question as to what they apply to, it would be
to whether they apply to IE, Edge, and third-party browsers.

Ken Blake actually wrote:

Why would you think Internet Options had anything to do with File
Explorer? If there's a question as to what they apply to, it would be
to whether they apply to IE, Edge, and third-party browsers.

Thanks for answering my question, which is, I think, summarized as:
Q: Does "Internet Options" apply to the Windows File Explorer?
A: No.

However, it's not anywhere nearly as simple as you make it out to be.

For example, I'm sure you're aware that the Windows File Explorer also
explores the Internet.
http://www.how2lab.com/be/uploads/im...ftp/ftpwe1.gif

That means:
A. The Windows Internet Explorer explores the Internet.
B. The Windows File Explorer also explores the Internet.
http://www.how2lab.com/be/uploads/im...ftp/ftpwe2.gif

But don't believe me.
If you want proof, just read this article:
http://www.how2lab.com/internet/host...s-explorer.php

Notice that they use both Windows File Explorer and Windows Internet
Explorer to explore the Internet.

They say "Windows Explorer is tightly integrated with Internet Explorer and
the transition from a local location is often seamless with a network
location."

So, maybe we need others to clarify here, since it sure seems to me that
both Windows File Explorer and Windows Internet Explorer explore the
Internet, while, if I understand the gist of what you're asking me, you are
wondering why I would think that.

In summary, I may very well be wrong (and you may very well be correct),
but, at the moment, I think it's supremely confusing whether the "Internet
Options" form in Windows 10 applies to the Windows File Explorer, or not.
http://www.how2lab.com/be/uploads/im...ftp/ftpwe5.gif

Maybe someone who knows more than I do about Windows can help clarify?

In article , Roy Tremblay
wrote:


In summary, I may very well be wrong

yep

Roy Tremblay wrote:
[...]
Unfortunately, changing the Windows 10 "Internet Options" Advanced setting
to switch from the Passive FTP default to Active FTP, didn't work.

Given that situation - i.e. no improvement - and having read all the
current responses, I think your best bet is - as Paul suggested - to use
the'DOS' ftp *command* - i.e. ftp.exe - to try to troubleshoot a
ftp-session to ES File Explorer's FTP server.

Another suggestion: Try another (than ES File Explorer's) FTP *server*
on your Android device. ES File Explorer is a *common* 'app', but IMNSHO
it isn't all that red hot.

Frank Slootweg actually wrote:

Given that situation - i.e. no improvement - and having read all the
current responses, I think your best bet is - as Paul suggested - to use
the'DOS' ftp *command* - i.e. ftp.exe - to try to troubleshoot a
ftp-session to ES File Explorer's FTP server.

I agree with you that the problem is something in how communication between
the client and server is different with the two ftp clients (i.e., Windows
File Explorer vs any other tested FTP client to date) ... or

Another suggestion: Try another (than ES File Explorer's) FTP *server*
on your Android device.

I agree with you that the problem could be the communication of ES File
Explorer's FTP server is somehow different with the two ftp clients (i.e.,
Windows File Explorer vs any other tested FTP client to date).

ES File Explorer is a *common* 'app', but IMNSHO
it isn't all that red hot.

I also agree that an FTP server on Android is a commodity, so, any other
Android FTP server should be able to be swapped in place of ES File
Exporer's FTP server.

Roy Tremblay actually wrote:

I also agree that an FTP server on Android is a commodity, so, any other
Android FTP server should be able to be swapped in place of ES File
Exporer's FTP server.

Since I don't even have a Google Play account on Android, I searched
F-Droid for FTP servers, which they have a few to choose from.
https://f-droid.org

primitive ftpd https://f-droid.org/packages/org.primftpd/
FTP Server (Free) https://f-droid.org/packages/be.ppareit.swiftp_free/

I'm not sure of the details (because I don't use Google Play anymore), but
the "ppareit.swiftp" FTP Server app above seems to be packaged for free on
F-Droid and for free/pay on Google Play seemingly similarly to how OSMAnd+
is the Google Play payware equivalent of the F-Droid freeware OSMAnd+ but
where OSMAnd is the slightly cripped version of the Google Play payware.

By analogy, these seem to be the respective free/pay Google Play analogs:
FTP Server https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...ppareit.swiftp
FTP Server (Demo) https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...it.swiftp_free

In addition, a search on Google Play pops up these free FTP Servers:
FTP Server https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...tree.ftpserver
FTPServer https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...utey.FTPServer
Solid Explorer https://play.google.com/store/apps/d....solidexplorer
FTP Express https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...fero.ftpclient
FX File Explorer https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...?id=nextapp.fx
AndFTP https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...ysesoft.andftp
FSync https://play.google.com/store/apps/d....android.fsync
FTP Cafe https://play.google.com/store/apps/d....ftpcafe.trial

And, of course:
ES File Explorer https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...gs.android.pop

At the moment, I can only conclude that either a critical setting in
Windows 10 File Explorer is amiss, or, Windows 10 File Explorer is not yet
ready for prime time with respect to basic FTP URLs.

In spite of the issues you're having with it, I can say with certainty
that Windows 10 File Explorer works with Android FTP clients. I use it
all the time.