How to debug flaky Android-to-Windows FTP connection in Windows File Explorer?

nospam actually wrote:

In summary, I may very well be wrong

yep

You seem to be a Windows expert.
What is the answer to this question?

Q: How do you tell Windows File Explorer to use active/passive FTP modes?
A:

"M.L." actually wrote:

At the moment, I can only conclude that either a critical setting in
Windows 10 File Explorer is amiss, or, Windows 10 File Explorer is not yet
ready for prime time with respect to basic FTP URLs.

In spite of the issues you're having with it, I can say with certainty
that Windows 10 File Explorer works with Android FTP clients. I use it
all the time.

Everyone agrees with you that Windows File Explorer "works" with FTP URIs.
Nobody said otherwise.

What I (and some others) have said is that something is flaky in that it
doesn't work all the time when other FTP clients on Windows work just fine
at that same time that the Windows File Explorer doesn't.

That's why this question is a "how to debug" question.

I think the debugging suggestions from Paul & Frank are valid, which take
time but which should elucidate, over time, what's different about the
Windows File Explorer that makes it fail when other Windows FTP clients
work.

1. Debug with Wiresshark (to look at communication differences)
2. Experiment with different Android FTP servers
3. Experiment with passive vs active FTP-client settings

What's still confusing is that nobody on Windows seems to know how to
explicitly tell the Windows File Explorer to go into passive or active mode
if it's true what Ken Blake said that the Windows Control Panel "Internet
Options" setting is only for the web browser named Windows Internet
Explorer.

Whether Ken is correct or not is what the Windows users collectively can
clarify since I showed indications that both the Windows File Explorer and
the Windows Internet Explorer "explore the Internet"; but that, in and of
itself, tells us nothing about whether the Control Panel "Internet Options"
affects the Windows File Explorer.

Hence it's an open question whose answer is only known to Windows experts:
Q: How do you tell Windows File Explorer to use active/passive FTP modes?
A: ?

On Wed, 2 Aug 2017 13:36:11 +0000 (UTC), Roy Tremblay
wrote:

What's still confusing is that nobody on Windows seems to know how to
explicitly tell the Windows File Explorer to go into passive or active mode

It was the first Google hit just now, so it's probably more a case that
nobody bothered to Google it for you. Could Google be wrong? Sure, but
see below on how to test it quickly and easily.

You set active vs passive globally, via Internet Options. That setting
affects both Internet Explorer and File Explorer.

Hence it's an open question whose answer is only known to Windows experts:
Q: How do you tell Windows File Explorer to use active/passive FTP modes?
A: ?

You don't have to be any kind of expert. Change the setting and test it.
Internet Options, Advanced tab, partway down.

Download and install an FTP server on your PC. Configure it to allow
only active or only passive connections, then try connecting to it with
File Explorer. Yes, you can have the FTP server and the FTP client
running on the same host.

Roy Tremblay wrote:


Hence it's an open question whose answer is only known to Windows experts:
Q: How do you tell Windows File Explorer to use active/passive FTP modes?
A: ?

Hence, it's in your best interest to characterize the FTP server
being provided by Android, to see whether this is even a PASV
issue. I wouldn't get my knickers in a knot, unless I had specifically
narrowed the issue down to that factor. What did your
Command Prompt ftp session testing show you ? What new
symptoms did it show ?

Anyone who has even remotely heard of FTP, should know
how to carry out an interactive session (using whatever
passes for a Terminal on the platform). As it's going
to provide feedback. What steps fail there ?

Paul

Roy Tremblay wrote:
nospam actually wrote:

In summary, I may very well be wrong
yep

You seem to be a Windows expert.
What is the answer to this question?

Q: How do you tell Windows File Explorer to use active/passive FTP modes?
A:

Don't get distracted.

Work on the problem. You're still in
symptom collection phase. It's too early
for "conclusions".

Paul

Roy Tremblay wrote:
[...]
By analogy, these seem to be the respective free/pay Google Play analogs:
FTP Server https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...ppareit.swiftp
FTP Server (Demo) https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...it.swiftp_free

In addition, a search on Google Play pops up these free FTP Servers:
FTP Server https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...tree.ftpserver
FTPServer https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...utey.FTPServer
Solid Explorer https://play.google.com/store/apps/d....solidexplorer
FTP Express https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...fero.ftpclient
FX File Explorer https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...?id=nextapp.fx
AndFTP https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...ysesoft.andftp
FSync https://play.google.com/store/apps/d....android.fsync
FTP Cafe https://play.google.com/store/apps/d....ftpcafe.trial

And, of course:
ES File Explorer https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...gs.android.pop

I don't know which search you did in Google Play (the website), but if
I search on "FTP server", I get some which are not on your list.

I haven't (yet) used another FTP server than the on in ES File
Explorer, but I've (shortly) used a WebDAV server from a developer which
also makes other servers, including a FTP server:

"WebDAV Server" (by The Olive Tree)
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.theolivetree.webdavserver

"Ftp Server" (by The Olive Tree)
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.theolivetree.ftpserver
"Passive and active modes."

Another multi-server developer (which I have *not* used):

"FTP Server Ultimate" (by Ice Cold Apps)
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.icecoldapps.ftpserverultimate

This is a Dutch company, so it must be good!

M.L. wrote:

At the moment, I can only conclude that either a critical setting in
Windows 10 File Explorer is amiss, or, Windows 10 File Explorer is not yet
ready for prime time with respect to basic FTP URLs.

In spite of the issues you're having with it, I can say with certainty
that Windows 10 File Explorer works with Android FTP clients. I use it
all the time.

I think you mean "with Android FTP servers", because Windows 10 File
Explorer is the FTP client.

If so, which FTP server(s) do you use on Android? (Please give the
full Google Play URL or the Google Play 'id' or the excat name and exact
developer name. Thanks.)

Paul actually wrote:

Work on the problem. You're still in
symptom collection phase. It's too early
for "conclusions".

Thanks Paul for that helpful debugging advice since what we want here is
for every post to help everyone with similar problems.

I noticed something *different* when I installed a new FTP Server on
Android.
FTP Server (Free) https://f-droid.org/packages/be.ppareit.swiftp_free/

When I tried to connect to that new Android FTP server, the default Windows
10 Firewall popped up.

I only realized this belatedly, because the firewall message popped up and
I never understand what it's asking so I just clicked one of the two (or
both?) options, and then the Windows File Explorer FTP client worked with
the new Android FTP server.

Trying again, this time with Primitive ftp so that Windows pops up the
firewall message anew:
primitive ftpd https://f-droid.org/packages/org.primftpd/

This connection to the Android file system worked fine from the Windows
File Explorer, and, unfortunately, the Windows firewall message that had
popped up for the ppareit FTP Server didn't pop up for the Primitive FTP
server - but the default Windows firewall still *might* be the culprit
after all.
https://s2.postimg.org/4nd3rhy6x/androidftp.jpg

Char Jackson actually wrote:

What's still confusing is that nobody on Windows seems to know how to
explicitly tell the Windows File Explorer to go into passive or active mode

It was the first Google hit just now, so it's probably more a case that
nobody bothered to Google it for you. Could Google be wrong? Sure, but
see below on how to test it quickly and easily.

First, let's try to keep this a *positive* discussion, where your
intimation is patently false but understood completely so I'm ok that you
think I didn't google.

Since I already provided numerous URLs to stackexchange and specifically to
http://www.how2lab.com/internet/host...s-explorer.php
it's clear that I googled for the answer.

The problem is that the search terms for Windows File Explorer and Windows
Internet Explorer tend to get confused since almost NOBODY writes
explicityly what I have been very careful to do in this thread, which is to
distinguish between the *file* explorer, and the *browser*, both of which
explore the Internet and both of which many people loosely refer to as
"Windows Explorer".

You set active vs passive globally, via Internet Options. That setting
affects both Internet Explorer and File Explorer.

This is as I had *guessed* but it's completely contrary to what Ken Blake
*said*, so, do you have a reference other than the reference I already
quoted to Ken Blake (see below that says the same thing you just said?
http://www.how2lab.com/internet/host...s-explorer.php

You don't have to be any kind of expert. Change the setting and test it.
Internet Options, Advanced tab, partway down.

I think you're just a little behind on the results since I already reported
back that I tested unchecking that setting in the Control Panel Internet
Options Advanced section, and nothing changed.

However, I did find out something interesting when I ran a few tests
suggested by Paul and Frank so I'm working on that as we speak.

Download and install an FTP server on your PC. Configure it to allow
only active or only passive connections, then try connecting to it with
File Explorer. Yes, you can have the FTP server and the FTP client
running on the same host.

As every post should help everyone collectively, I thank you for that
unique debugging idea, which, after all, is the topic of this thread.

Thanks for that debugging suggestion!

Frank Slootweg actually wrote:

I don't know which search you did in Google Play (the website), but if
I search on "FTP server", I get some which are not on your list.

In general, the cost of freeware isn't in the search, which anyone can run,
but in the testing to find the best wholly-unrestricted completely ad-free
super-powerful canonical tools.

Thanks for clarifying that there are a ton of free FTP servers on Google
Play, which I agree. I hope I didn't imply my search was exhaustive since I
said I don't even use Google Play.

I only ran the search so that others could benefit from the results, since
most people probably use Google Play even though they don't need to most of
the time.

If your search found *better* FTP Servers than mine did, then that's good
because the point is for others to benefit from our efforts so that
everyone benefits from every post we make.

I haven't (yet) used another FTP server than the on in ES File
Explorer, but I've (shortly) used a WebDAV server from a developer which
also makes other servers, including a FTP server:

"WebDAV Server" (by The Olive Tree)
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.theolivetree.webdavserver

"Ftp Server" (by The Olive Tree)
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.theolivetree.ftpserver
"Passive and active modes."

In general, the cost of freeware isn't in the search, which anyone can run,
but in the testing to find the best wholly-unrestricted completely ad-free
super-powerful canonical tools.

You'll note that my list did contain an "Olive Tree" FTP Server:
FTP Server https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...tree.ftpserver

So it's good that we are helping others with URLs to good Android FTP
servers.

Another multi-server developer (which I have *not* used):

"FTP Server Ultimate" (by Ice Cold Apps)
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.icecoldapps.ftpserverultimate

This is a Dutch company, so it must be good!

In general, the cost of freeware isn't in the search, which anyone can run,
but in the testing to find the best wholly-unrestricted completely ad-free
super-powerful canonical tools.

It's good that we work together to help others find good Android FTP
servers as that last link to Ice Cold App's FTP server was not in my
original list.

Looking at the marketing blurb, it sounds like a good find for us to test,
however I do note that it seems to have some limitations which may or may
not matter to the user.
"In this version you can add two servers (FTP, SFTP, FTPS Implicit, or
Dynamic DNS Updaters), three users and three optional allowed IP addresses
per server. If you want to be able to add unlimited items please buy FTP
Server Ultimate Pro."

Finding the best is more than just running a search.

To that end, I'm testing out the free ones I previously mentioned from
F-Droid, which are working fine with Windows 10 so far (time will tell).

In article , Roy Tremblay
wrote:


I don't know which search you did in Google Play (the website), but if
I search on "FTP server", I get some which are not on your list.

In general, the cost of freeware isn't in the search, which anyone can run,
but in the testing to find the best wholly-unrestricted completely ad-free
super-powerful canonical tools.

which often costs more than the buck or two a paid app costs.

Roy Tremblay wrote:

nobody on Windows seems to know how to
explicitly tell the Windows File Explorer to go into passive or active mode

If you want that level of control (and more besides) use a 'proper' FTP
client like filezilla etc, not Windows Explorer that just has minimal
FTP functionality built-in.

Andy Burns actually wrote:

nobody on Windows seems to know how to
explicitly tell the Windows File Explorer to go into passive or active mode

If you want that level of control (and more besides) use a 'proper' FTP
client like filezilla etc, not Windows Explorer that just has minimal
FTP functionality built-in.

Thank you for that suggestion to use FileZilla to replace both Windows File
Explorer and WinSCP for exploring Android files over the LAN on Windows.
https://s4.postimg.org/ho5djz5od/filezillasettings.jpg

Since every post should add to our combined tribal knowledge, I looked up
FileZilla to see how it differed from WinSCP which was listed in the
original post.

This seems to be the canonical location for FileZilla:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/filezilla/
.. FTP client and server
.. Supports FTP, FTPS and SFTP
.. Built-in file management
.. Advanced file settings
.. Reduces timeout errors ==== this may be useful if it's real
.. Multi-language support

When installing this FileZilla client version 3.17.0.1 onto Windows, the
FileZilla installer adds a Windows drag-and-drop shell extention, much like
what Windows File Explorer does.

Interestingly, when I ran the newly downloaded and installed FileZilla
client for the first time, it took a really long time to come up, where I
had thought it hung the system, but then it finally popped up saying that a
new version (3.27.0.1) was available (which was a surprise since I had only
moments before downloaded the latest on Sourceforge) and that it had
already downloaded that new version into my "Downloads" directory (which is
interesting, because I don't have a Downloads directory).

It had an "update" button, but I never blindly install that way, preferring
instead to archive the installers and to run them on my own terms.

So, in a rare (for me) case where I have to search for something that was
just moments prior downloaded (just like the rest of the world does all the
time), for the first time in *years*, I had to search for something just
moments before downloaded!

The first place I looked for a "Downloads" directory was the location I
stored the executable, but it wasn't there. The next place I looked was my
C:\tmp\ directory which is where I have the Windows TEMP and System TEMP
directories set to (at a lower level).

I don't use Microsoft Edge, but I searched for where it puts stuff because
I had read that you can't set up Edge like a normal browser to just ask
where to download things:
http://www.intowindows.com/how-to-ch...icrosoft-edge/
That said the default Downloads directory for that specific browser is:
C:\Users\YourUserName\Downloads\
but of course, that directory wouldn't exist (and doesn't exist).

Just in case I had changed the Edge downloads directory location long ago,
when Windows was installed, I checked the registry:
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\SOFTWARE\Classes\LocalSettings\
Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\AppConta iner\Storage\
microsoft.microsoftedge_8wekyb3d8bbwe\MicrosoftEdg e\Main\
Default Download Directory = C:\tmp

At this point, I resorted to the basic Windows search mechanism:
C:\tmp% dir /s/a/l/on/b C:\* salonb.txt

Meanwhile, while that was running, this explains a default Downloads
dir:http://windowsreport.com/change-down...10-store-apps/
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\Curr entVersion\Appx\
PackageRoot = C:\Program Files\WindowsApps

That's interesting because nothing ever goes on purpose into "Program
Files" on my system, so, taking a look there I found I had to change all
sorts of permissions, so I gave up on that tack (since it seems to be only
for the Windows store anyway, which I'll never use in my life.)

By now, my search had completed so looking into the text file I find:
c:\users\user\appdata\roaming\filezilla
but that just had some xml and sqlite files.

Looking further, I see something in "recent", which is odd because I have
all the "recent" stuff completely turned off in Windows 10 since the day it
was installed (again, I have never needed it before).
c:\users\user\appdata\roaming\microsoft\windows\re cent\filezilla download _
sourceforge.pdf.lnk
c:\users\user\appdata\roaming\microsoft\windows\re cent\filezilla.lnk
But those seemed to just point to my recent downloads where I knew where I
put them since I always know at all times where I download files.

Ah, here it is!
c:\downloads\filezilla_3.27.0.1_win64-setup.exe
It had never occurred to me that there is/was a C:\Downloads directory
because I've never used it, and, in fact, it was empty save for this one
file.

Killing the old FileZilla process and installing the new fileZilla, I
entered into the "Host" section "ftp://192.168.1.16:3721" and the
"Username" of "anonymous" and a blank password (I've never had to type an
anonymous password before) and a "Port" of "3721" (why isn't the port next
to the server setting?). That's a dumb UI not to put the port next to the
host but I changed the host to remove the port, but it didn't log in.

It could be the need for a password (although I've been using anonymous FTP
to my phone from Windows for more than a year and never had to type in a
password before) but it worked (so I guessed at the right password).

That logged in and put me at "/" on Android (the Android phone is rooted).
https://s2.postimg.org/k2g81ha5l/filezillaui.jpg

Going into the Android DCIM/Camera/ directory, it was nice to see "view":
https://s4.postimg.org/fg6owuphp/filezillaedit.jpg

That's helpful to see what an image might be, but it's worthy to note that
what actually happened was a file copy from Android to Windows and then it
was opened on Windows whereas what I want to see are thumbnails.

Looking about for settings that will display thumbnails, I see none, but I
did see some settings for active versus passive ftp client operation, which
was, after all, the main debugging point:
https://s4.postimg.org/ho5djz5od/filezillasettings.jpg

Since this is my first exposure to FileZilla, I'll reserve judgement, but
upon first inspection, it does seem to have more options than did WinSCP,
but I'll use it for a few days to be sure since I generally only use the
one best canonical freeware tool for any particular job.

Roy Tremblay wrote:

the "Username" of "anonymous" and a blank password (I've never had to type an
anonymous password before)

In days of yore, it was traditional to use your email address as the
password when logging on as anonymous.

Andy Burns actually wrote:

the "Username" of "anonymous" and a blank password (I've never had to type an
anonymous password before)

In days of yore, it was traditional to use your email address as the
password when logging on as anonymous.

I used to do ftp manually, in the days of old, but that's a memory as
distant as the time I used to sand the points in the distributor and gap
the plugs and twist the distributor to get the timing to 4 degrees BTDC.

From memory, it used to be something like this:
ftp 111.222.333.444 21
user anonymous
pass (we usually just hit the return key or typed in garbage)
binary == it was always safest to just type it and get it over with
lcd == if it mattered what the local directory was
cd /path/to/files/
prompt == it was easiest to turn off the prompt
mget * == at least if you wanted a multiple get
quit

As always, there were many ways to skin that cat (e.g., "ftp -i", and
"prompt off", etc.).

Anyway, in this case, FileZilla required a password while WinSCP simply had
a button for "anonymous" as did Windows File Explorer.

The password, apparently, for FileZilla, was just the 9 characters
'anonymous' without making it look like an email address.