Technical & legal background using copyrighted fonts in custom road signs in PowerPoint

On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 19:44:58 +1200, David Empson
wrote:

The Mac version of PowerPoint does not have the ability to embed fonts,
nor can it display fonts which were embedded by the Windows version of
PowerPoint.

Thank you for confirming that font embedding on the Mac won't be possible
on /any/ version of Powerpoint that runs on the Mac.

The only one to blame for this is Microsoft, who chose not to implement
that feature in the Mac version of PowerPoint (it still isn't there in
the latest PowerPoint 2016).

One has to wonder why Microsoft saw fit to allow font embedding on Windows
but not on the Mac?

If you want your presentation to be editable by multiple people, and it
requires embedded fonts, then there is no way to involve most Mac users
in that process because they won't have a version of PowerPoint that
supports embedded fonts.

This is bad news because the school is mostly Macs from what I've seen in
the graphics lab. They "may" have Windows, but the monitors were all Apple
monitors (I didn't think to look since I didn't know then what I know now
about Mac PowerPoint font embedding issues).

For that matter, given a general audience of Mac users you can't even
assume they will have PowerPoint at all - only some Mac users have gone
to the extra expense of buying Microsoft Office.

This is a school lab, where they mostly use illustrator and photoshop and
design (according to the teacher), but the residents in this joint
community project all have MS Office.

It's not easy trying to create a compatible document between schools on the
Mac and residents mostly on Windows.

If you need cross platform editing of presentations with embedded fonts,
a better solution is to ditch PowerPoint and use something else which
really is cross platform, e.g. LibreOffice appears to support this. I
haven't tried that feature (or used it at all for presentations) but it
would be easy enough for you to try it and see if it is good enough.

This is a great idea to try LibreOffice since everyone can install it.
The original proposal I was asked to flesh out was PowerPoint though.

I think though, that we might just have to enforce loading of the font
package onto the Macs to solve the problem the /easiest/ way, even though
that solution doesn't meet the original specification.

Once the project is done, we would then delete the fonts from the Macs.

Is there an easy way to DELETE fonts on the Mac after the fact, like there
is with Windows FontFrenzy "de-fonting" software?

On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 03:45:18 +0000 (UTC), Chaya Eve
wrote:

On Fri, 08 Sep 2017 23:39:07 -0400, nospam wrote:

that question is not remaining. you're just too ****ing stupid to
figure it out. it's actually comically easy, with at least two methods,
but since you've alienated those who know the answers, you're on your
own.

The sooner you disappear the better it will be for everyone.



The sooner you (and others) stop replying to him, the better it will
be for everyone. He's a troll, and I (and others) have long had him
killfiled here. The best way to deal with a troll is by ignoring him ,
preferably by killfiling. If you don't, and reply to him, the rest of
us who have him killfiled, have to see his messages you quote.

If everyone here killfiled him, and he never saw a reply, he would
soon get tired of posting here and disappear.

On Sat, 09 Sep 2017 11:02:29 -0400, Ken Blake wrote
(in ):

On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 03:45:18 +0000 (UTC), Chaya Eve
wrote:

On Fri, 08 Sep 2017 23:39:07 -0400, wrote:

that question is not remaining. you're just too ****ing stupid to
figure it out. it's actually comically easy, with at least two methods,
but since you've alienated those who know the answers, you're on your
own.

The sooner you disappear the better it will be for everyone.

The sooner you (and others) stop replying to him, the better it will
be for everyone. He's a troll, and I (and others) have long had him
killfiled here. The best way to deal with a troll is by ignoring him ,
preferably by killfiling. If you don't, and reply to him, the rest of
us who have him killfiled, have to see his messages you quote.

If everyone here killfiled him, and he never saw a reply, he would
soon get tired of posting here and disappear.

+1000

--
Joe W Dee
Remember: It is To Laugh
AmE; northeast US, Boston/New York

In message Chaya Eve wrote:
So how do you maintain a copyright notice intact in PowerPoint 2007?

You put an attribution into the powerpoint file that uses the font, just
like the license says.


--
'The gods,' he said. 'Imprisoned in a thought. And perhaps they were
never more than a dream.' --Sourcery

In message nospam wrote:
In article , Chaya Eve
wrote:

The line of interest on embedding compatibility in that summary is:
"Mac versions of PowerPoint can't embed fonts or use fonts that have been
embedded by a Windows version of PowerPoint."

Are there any Mac knowledgeable people on this newsgroup who can help?

there are quite a few who can, and while i can't speak for others, this
'clueless clod' has zero interest in helping you.

In article , Chaya Eve
wrote:
This is not a question for clueless clods such as Goodguy, Lewis, & nospam.

Ahh, thanks for that, I'd missed that initially. I'll kill the thread.

(amusingly enough, I just had to deal with this exact issue earlier this
year, my first time dealing with powerpoint in a decade.)

--
K is for KATE who was struck by an axe
L is for Leo who swallowed some tacks

In message Chaya Eve wrote:
On Fri, 8 Sep 2017 23:41:48 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
wrote:

Microsoft always finds a way to ****ify their software. This has nothing
to do with the Mac, only with Microsoft's incompetence.

You two clueless clods have already proven you know nothing about the topic.

More than you.

As stated prior it's best that you and that nospam clueless clod just leave
the conversation sooner rather than later because this isn't about your pet
peeves.

You do not get to dictate what conversations I choose to participate in.
You DO get to be such a **** that I will not answer your questions
though. Even the easy ones.

The question is about:

Yes, we know, trivial questions that anyone with 4 or 5 seconds to spare
could figure out. Not you though, of course.

We also know who you are.

--
Eyes the shady night has shut/Cannot see the record cut And silence
sounds no worse than cheers/After earth has stopped the ears.

On 09/09/2017 20:46, Lewis wrote:
We also know who you are.

https://www.mylife.com/graham-morgan...9vd?userMode=0

--
“Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick
themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened.� (Winston S.
Churchill)

In article , David B.
wrote:

We also know who you are.

https://www.mylife.com/...

no.

On 9/8/2017 1:38 PM, Chaya Eve wrote:
Can you help with technical and legal background information on how to use
a True-Type copyrighted font correctly with laypeople and printers?

Two areas of concern where I ask advice based on your experience:
1. Technical (how do I embed the TT font in PowerPoint 2007?)
2. Legal (what am I supposed to do for copyright stuff?)

Specifically on the technical, I just want to embed the font into PPT 2007:
A. When I modify a multi-page PowerPoint with custom signs, it looks good.
B. But when I send that PowerPoint to neighbors the fonts are all jumbled.
C. I have "RoadGeek 2005 Series B" TT fonts, but I can't expect them to
load fonts so I just want the font to be embedded inside the the editable
Powerpoint file (where everyone has Powerpoint on either a Mac or Windows).
http://texaphoto.com/fonts/roadgeek-...eries-3-b.html

Specifically on the legal, I just want to be legally correct:
a. This page tries to explain the legal requirements.
https://www.onlinewebfonts.com/downl...1beacfc13bb8b3
b. It says something about "css" notifications as shown below.

Using @import CSS directive, put the following line in add to your css
file.(http | https)@import
url(//db.onlinewebfonts.com/c/458cf7aea231a973eb1beacfc13bb8b3?family=Roadgeek+2 005+Series+B);

c. I have no idea what that means in terms of the editable PowerPoint 2007.

In summary, I ask for your advice on two questions.
Q1: How do I embed a TT font into PowerPoint 2007 for others to edit, and,
Q2: What is this "css" legal stuff and I do I comply with it in PPT 2007?


Pay a good lawyer, who specializes in copyright issues. While in general
you may sometimes get common sense answers, there is more to legality
than good faith.

--
PeterN

On 9/9/2017 12:07 PM, Joe W Dee wrote:
On Sat, 09 Sep 2017 11:02:29 -0400, Ken Blake wrote
(in ):

On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 03:45:18 +0000 (UTC), Chaya Eve
wrote:

On Fri, 08 Sep 2017 23:39:07 -0400, wrote:

that question is not remaining. you're just too ****ing stupid to
figure it out. it's actually comically easy, with at least two methods,
but since you've alienated those who know the answers, you're on your
own.

The sooner you disappear the better it will be for everyone.

The sooner you (and others) stop replying to him, the better it will
be for everyone. He's a troll, and I (and others) have long had him
killfiled here. The best way to deal with a troll is by ignoring him ,
preferably by killfiling. If you don't, and reply to him, the rest of
us who have him killfiled, have to see his messages you quote.

If everyone here killfiled him, and he never saw a reply, he would
soon get tired of posting here and disappear.

+1000


I was on a sci newsgroup years ago. Had some real hard core members.
Top posting would get you killfiled as would replying to the resident trolls.
Some folks just can't leave the trouble maker alone. I've seen a few groups
destroyed by this.

Things pretty well cleared up after a while. At least I think it did. It's hard to
tell when you have killfiled the problem people.
Yahoo groups can be very good. People can get together for whatever their
interests are. Groups can be private and hidden. Really good for family groups
and such. Membership can be by invitation only or they can be open to public
walk-ins.

The list owner is king along with any co-mods he appoints. It's VERY satisfying
to slam the "Ban Forever" button on the jerks and trouble makers.

On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 18:37:51 -0400, PeterN wrote
in response to PeterN

Pay a good lawyer, who specializes in copyright issues. While in general
you may sometimes get common sense answers, there is more to legality
than good faith.

That's the dumbest answer anyone gave here yet.

Here's a similar platitude for you.

If someone asks how to tie their shoelaces, tell them that it can only be
done at the dealer by a professional trained in tying shoelaces.

On 2017-09-10 03:37:31 +0000, ATANARJUAT said:

On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 18:37:51 -0400, PeterN wrote
in response to PeterN

Pay a good lawyer, who specializes in copyright issues. While in general
you may sometimes get common sense answers, there is more to legality
than good faith.

That's the dumbest answer anyone gave here yet.

Here's a similar platitude for you.

If someone asks how to tie their shoelaces, tell them that it can only be
done at the dealer by a professional trained in tying shoelaces.

Or by many five year olds. ;-)

On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 14:02:17 +0000 (UTC), Chaya Eve
wrote:

I think though, that we might just have to enforce loading of the font
package onto the Macs to solve the problem the /easiest/ way, even though
that solution doesn't meet the original specification.

Once the project is done, we would then delete the fonts from the Macs.

Is there an easy way to DELETE fonts on the Mac after the fact, like there
is with Windows FontFrenzy "de-fonting" software?

I'm going to guess that installing, embedding, and then deleting fonts on
the Mac is as easy as it is on Windows, which was as easy as copying the
font file to the "C:\Windows\Fonts\" directory as the unzipped free
font file named: "C:\Windows\Fonts\Roadgeek 2005 Series B Regular.ttf" 44KB

The copyright is automatically embedded into the font properties form:
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/10/roadsign_1.png

Deleting the font after embedding was as easy as right clicking on it:
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/10/roadsign_2.png

The various file sizes were perfectly reasonable and tiny in all cases:
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/10/roadsign_3.png

These are the file sizes with and without embedding:
Powerpoint without any font embedding = 91 KB
Powerpoint with only characters used embedded = 610 KB
Powerpoint with all font characters embedded = 1793 KB

After removal, the first file reverted to a jumbled mess:
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/10/roadsign_4.png

Even after removal, the second and third files above looked great:
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/10/roadsign_5.png

The only minor hitch, for Windows experts, is to ask why the 32-bit
Microsoft embedded font utility shell extension didn't seem to do anything
useful on Windows 10:
http://www.microsoft.com/typography/...roperty21.mspx

On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 18:31:41 +1200, Your Name wrote:

If you're distributing a PowerPoint document to be edited by other
people, then you're best to give them the original font files as well
(the original .zip archive, including the licence text if there is one)
for them to install.

The final solution will be different for the Mac than for Windows.

For Windows, I'll just provide the file which has the entire font set
embedded in it. This is the easiest for everyone to edit the file at will.

For the Mac, we have no choice but to provide the font file itself, and
then to have every Mac user install the font and then delete the font when
they are done with the project.

It's a pain and it's ridiculous but there is no other viable option.

Depending on the software (and user choices) Embeded fonts may or mauy
not include all the characters. Sometimes embedded fonts only include
the characters that have actually been used. If, for example, you
didn't use a lowercase z, then the emedded font may not include that z
character if someone else needs it.

On Windows the embedding is ridiculously easy, where you have the option of
no embedding, embedding of just the characters used, and embedding of all
the characters available in the font itself.

The various file sizes were perfectly reasonable and tiny in all cases:
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/10/roadsign_3.png

These are the file sizes with and without embedding:
Powerpoint without any font embedding = 91 KB
Powerpoint with only characters used embedded = 610 KB
Powerpoint with all font characters embedded = 1793 KB

After removal, the first file reverted to a jumbled mess:
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/10/roadsign_4.png

Even after removal, the second and third files above looked great:
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/10/roadsign_5.png

I think we have the final solution and the project plan figured out now,
with all the technical and legal details ironed out perfectly.

Thanks for your advice.

On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 19:57:23 +1200, David Empson
wrote:

If the presentation needs to be editable on both Mac and Windows, and
must have an embedded font, then PowerPoint is not a practical solution
for a general audience.

Thank you for testing out the Mac.
I have written up the report, which is due on Monday, for the teacher.

The final solution will be different for the Mac than for Windows.
From this: http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/10/roadsign_4.png
To this: http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/10/roadsign_5.png

For Windows, we will just provide the PowerPoint file which already has the
entire font set embedded in it. This is the easiest for the Windows users
to edit the file to add whatever they want without having to deal with the
added issue of installing and deleting fonts.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/10/roadsign_2.png

For the Mac, any solution will be more complex as we have no choice but to
provide the installable font file itself, and then to have every Mac user
learn how to install the font and then for them to additionally learn how
to delete the font on the Mac when they are done with the project.

Thank you for your help in outlining the details which even Microsoft
didn't say in their document on how to embed fonts into Power Point
documents on the Mac so it's something we had to find out on our own.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...-in-powerpoint